OT: $1,000,000 to transfer?

[TCC Kid]

It already has. Currently, Alaska, Nebraska, CA, NJ & NY permit HS athletes to profit from NIL. Interestingly, TX, one of the first states to pass legislation permitting college athletes to profit from NIL, expressly prohibits HS athletes from profiting in the very same legislation.

Money breeds corruption. As you pointed out the P5 isn't loaded with Saints. High School is a bit too young to learn that lesson. I'm surprised California isn't getting the HS kids involved.

 

[oldude]

I thought the "NIL" legislation only allowed selling their name, image and likeness NOT their athletic services.

Pay for play is not allowed. But that’s not precisely what the deal is for Caleb Cunningham to come to EMU. There is no specific requirement that he play. Just as there is no requirement for Paige or Azzi to play in order to be compensated by Gatorade and Chipotle respectively.

 

[EdSaid]

Rule 7:08i was put in place by Baseball in 1911, after a player with the Washington Senators named Germany Schaefer stole 2nd base, trying to draw a throw from the catcher so a teammate on 3rd base could try to score. When the catcher did not throw down to second base, on the next pitch, Schaefer proceeded to steal first base. He was not the first player to do so, but he was the last as MLB subsequently passed Rule 7:08i (travesty of the game), the sole provision of which was that a player was deemed to be out if they ran the bases in reverse order.

Rule 7:08i should not be confused with Rule 8, Section 2 which requires a runner to touch all bases in reverse order, to return to his original base, if he is running when a fly ball is caught by the opposing team.

Not sure what any of this has to do with NIL, but it certainly is an interesting sidetrack to this thread.

Perhaps I was somewhat vague. If a baseball umpire can use the "travesty of the game" rule to correct something not specifically covered under the rules, he could make the necessary change to remove the advantage.

In the case of this thread, paying a student-athlete to transfer under the guise of NIL, I would call that a travesty and say not happening. Whether the NCAA or Emmert feel the same way, I do not know. This NIL thing is bound to have numerous loopholes and interpretations, which will be followed by legal challenges.

If a student-athlete recruit or transfer is allowed monetary incentive under this NIL rule, the separation between the haves and have nots will expand.

No, I do not like the current NIL rules as they exist.

 

[oldude]

Perhaps I was somewhat vague. If a baseball umpire can use the "travesty of the game" rule to correct something not specifically covered under the rules, he could make the necessary change to remove the advantage.

In the case of this thread, paying a student-athlete to transfer under the guise of NIL, I would call that a travesty and say not happening. Whether the NCAA or Emmert feel the same way, I do not know. This NIL thing is bound to have numerous loopholes and interpretations, which will be followed by legal challenges.

If a student-athlete recruit or transfer is allowed monetary incentive under this NIL rule, the separation between the haves and have nots will expand.

No, I do not like the current NIL rules as they exist.

Appreciate the clarification. I would make the point that there is no provision for a baseball umpire to correct something not specifically covered under the rules. The “travesty of the game” rule, is an actual rule that was put in place by Baseball in 1911 to correct one specific issue: running the bases in reverse order. It is not as you suggest a blanket catchall to correct any and all egregious actions not otherwise covered under the existing rules of baseball.

 

[seeya27]

If you want something messed up really bad, let the Federal Government (any party, any administration) do it. That's why it must be done federally, the NCAA as a group had their chance at damage to College sports, now let the professionals in DC show you how it can really be done.

OK and point taken. How would you solve this then. A totally free market society needs some type of regulation. That is the value of anti-trust regulation that encourages competition by limiting the market power of any particular firm. The obvious goal was to not overly concentrate market power or form monopolies, as well as breaking up firms that have become monopolies.

 

[hoopsfan22]

OK and point taken. How would you solve this then. A totally free market society needs some type of regulation. That is the value of anti-trust regulation that encourages competition by limiting the market power of any particular firm. The obvious goal was to not overly concentrate market power or form monopolies, as well as breaking up firms that have become monopolies.

By virtue of roster/scholarship limits there is a limit to the market power of any particular firm [school]. Also be careful what you wish for because you're making the argument that could easily be used against the women's basketball team which seems to have a monopoly on the top recruit in almost every recruiting class.

 

[Ralph]

This sounds like the old days with the Yankees having the biggest market as they owned NYC over the Giants and Dodgers and used all the revenue to outbid other teams. Kansas City and Cleveland were like Yankee farm teams. The schools with the billionaire alums (Nike and Oregon) will get the best players. I could see Harvard snaring all the best players (a few might not be able to graduate) from Alabama football if they really want to. This could bring back the Ivy League as a football power. and the University of Chicago. MIT vs. CalTech for the national championship. But then the SEC would have to lure them into their league.

 

[seeya27]

By virtue of roster/scholarship limits there is a limit to the market power of any particular firm [school]. Also be careful what you wish for because you're making the argument that could easily be used against the women's basketball team which seems to have a monopoly on the top recruit in almost every recruiting class.

UConn's so-called player monopoly -- which is shared by USC, Baylor in the past, Stanford, others -- hasn't been financially driven. (UConn only rarely has the #1 recruiting class, btw). It was success driven. They compete for players on the same level playing field that any other school does. USC and UConn don't provide any additional financial inducements that any other school can offer. Anti-trust behavior inherently involves financial factors in some way.

No one is suggesting AL, LSU or TX can't recruit the top players or be limited in doing so. But I am suggesting that unlimited dollars can't be thrown at players as an inducement. Those inducements need to have a structure like any free market venture.

I don't trust the government at all. But I don't trust the unfettered free market entirely either. Both need to be watched, managed, regulated and restrained.

 

[hoopsfan22]

UConn's so-called player monopoly -- which is shared by USC, Baylor in the past, Stanford, others -- hasn't been financially driven. (UConn only rarely has the #1 recruiting class, btw). It was success driven. They compete for players on the same level playing field that any other school does. USC and UConn don't provide any additional financial inducements that any other school can offer. Anti-trust behavior inherently involves financial factors in some way.

No one is suggesting AL, LSU or TX can't recruit the top players or be limited in doing so. But I am suggesting that unlimited dollars can't be thrown at players as an inducement. Those inducements need to have a structure like any free market venture.

I don't trust the government at all. But I don't trust the unfettered free market entirely either. Both need to be watched, managed, regulated and restrained.

UConn women's basketball has grabbed the top recruit in 7 of the last 10 classes. It's about as much of a monopoly on the best player as you'll ever find in college sports including football and men's basketball. Also you're forgetting one thing. You dislike this new setup, but the schools themselves are the ones that wanted it and it would be naive to believe that there's no one in the decision making process that couldn't foresee these "issues." No, this is all by design as NCAA rules are set by the member institutions. We as fans don't really get a say, and if we dislike it, we can simply stop watching. Sports viewership in general is in decline as younger generations simply spread their attention over a wider array of entertainment options.

For those that think this relegates a school like UConn to the second tier, we've been there for a decade after the old Big East was broken up. The Ohio States of the world do not even consider us a peer institution in the athletic world as they count their quarter of a billion dollars in athletic department revenue. AD DB better sit down tonight and watch Moneyball because he's going to be living the college version of that movie.

 

[Blueballer]

Pay for play is not allowed. But that’s not precisely what the deal is for Caleb Cunningham to come to EMU. There is no specific requirement that he play. Just as there is no requirement for Paige or Azzi to play in order to be compensated by Gatorade and Chipotle respectively.

But I don't know how a deal like that could be interpreted as anything but "Pay for play"?

 

[oldude]

But I don't know how a deal like that could be interpreted as anything but "Pay for play"?

In the words of Groucho Marx, “Who you gonna believe, me, or your lying eyes?”

 

[Skeets]

But who could you draw with $13.95?

$13.97 if you can get that 2 cent guy to kick in.

 

[Skeets]

I posted way back at the beginning of the NIL discussion that this would have profound effects on HS sports.

 

[reno tony]

I wish I could give you 1000 likes on this one.

 

[TCC Kid]

OK and point taken. How would you solve this then. A totally free market society needs some type of regulation. That is the value of anti-trust regulation that encourages competition by limiting the market power of any particular firm. The obvious goal was to not overly concentrate market power or form monopolies, as well as breaking up firms that zhave become monopolies.

What year was the Anti-Trust legislation enacted? I think the Teddy bear was created then.
Your point, as I wrap my brain around it, is well taken. This whole NIL think isn't easy for an old fan of College sports to swallow. Purity in belief rarely allows for anything.
The problem with this type of legislation is that while it appears to solve one problem, without in depth consideration a flood of problems/issues never conceived can cause unexpected REAL problems for the kids. The problems we citizens have is: We believe our people in DC are as smart as the smartest Citizen--all too often they are NOT. Citizens, without DC influence can always do better.

 

[seeya27]

What year was the Anti-Trust legislation enacted? I think the Teddy bear was created then.
Your point, as I wrap my brain around it, is well taken. This whole NIL think isn't easy for an old fan of College sports to swallow. Purity in belief rarely allows for anything.
The problem with this type of legislation is that while it appears to solve one problem, without in depth consideration a flood of problems/issues never conceived can cause unexpected REAL problems for the kids. The problems we citizens have is: We believe our people in DC are as smart as the smartest Citizen--all too often they are NOT. Citizens, without DC influence can always do bet

This isn't about what anyone likes or wants. The P5 schools may have wanted a system without walls or ceilings, but it's going to create unintended consequences for the P5 schools they will absolutely regret or will be unsustainable. You don't need to be a futurist to see an enormous cliff approaching.

First, there is no governing body for college football at this moment -- and I know of no organization of almost any size that doesn't have some governing rules. A cartel perhaps (mafia), but even groups like this have some unwritten rules and a leader at the top. In CFB, is it a super group (P5s) of football schools? Is it the SEC? No one knows.

Just trying to unpack one piece of this: are the leaders of the 65 P6 schools (like WSU, OSU, and KSU) going to want to play under the same unfettered rules as AL and GA? Because all 65 schools will have voting rights and I can absolutely assure you their interests are not aligned.

Right now, any school/booster can offer unlimited limited dollars to HS students and matriculating college athletes. So a talented college freshman can be recruited (poached) by other schools at any time during the academic year, in an auction, free-market way? Hell, there are no rules, right? So every player is an open, individual auction from his junior year of HS on? Forget what I like or believe...is this really a sustainable system?

No one -- NO ONE -- hates the NCAA and its past ways more than me. And I don't have a romanticized view of college sports. But a utopian system of no rules & unlimited money won't & can't work. And if it does somehow survive, only a handful of schools will want to compete in that system. Most can't. No sporting entity worldwide that I am aware of operates this way. All sports have limits, regulations and caps to allow the game to be competitively fair and profitable for the owners, players, and leagues. CFB is going to need to have something of a level playing field, otherwise, it will lose credibility and fans.

Just my opinion though.

 

[seeya27]

Saban, Smart call for increased NIL regulation

Nick Saban and Kirby Smart both called for increased NIL regulation, warning that the same teams otherwise will continue to dominate college football.

www.espn.com

I rest my case. Unintended consequences and unsustainability are going to level the playing field.

 

[Ron and Vida]

Who says the consequences are unintended? This is exactly what big athletic departments had in mind. Buying and selling players just like the pro teams they are.

I am completely clueless about this BUT as you all know when it comes to mens B-ball and football and big money players like the NCAA ESPN etc
college amateur athletics is a joke
So as I see it we are painfully evolving to a new beast

 

[Redux]

I think the natural outcome of what looks to be becoming a regulatory/legislative vacuum is that players just move from team to team with a kind of centralized player commodity market of bids and asks. Coaches will put their teams together each morning, and particularly on game mornings, based on the previous day's buying & selling of player futures on that exchange.

There are some issues to be worked out. Transportation and such.

Some old fuddie-duddies might yearn for "the good old days" and see this new exciting environment as chaos. Too bad, dad.

But I too am a traditionalist at heart and I'd like to see some stability. That's why I mentioned "daily" player movement but maybe that will be hard to enforce because of lawsuits. Certainly no players should be moving from team to team for higher pay during live play; I'd like at the very least see this restricted to timeouts to keep things under control.