Wichita State WBB Team Refuses to Practice/Coach Suspended | The Boneyard

Wichita State WBB Team Refuses to Practice/Coach Suspended

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Appears to be just what Tennessee needs. Maybe they should just swap coaching staffs. WSU would be happy with undemanding coach, and UT might start playing up to their potential.
 
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Appears to be just what Tennessee needs.

She is a former TN player.

Whether she is what any team "needs" is dependent on who is being unreasonable here.
 
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She is a former TN player.

Whether she is what any team "needs" is dependent on who is being unreasonable here.

I am sure Pat would have had the same type of problems with the current generation..... everyone gets a trophy .....everyone is special. Then they get to college and have a reality check. . . . Imagine if Pat had coached Diamond .

I do not know if this coach went to far, however the good coaches are demanding.. . . .. again, a lot of kids have been pampered and have never heard the word NO
 
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Neither......will wait to hear the whole story.....just seems to be happening with increasing frequency in WCBB and all sports

Good move! Abuse sometimes is in the mine of one player who then pushes others to see--difficult training as abuse.
Of course there is the other side of the coin-. Kids are more Pro active--.
 
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She is a former TN player.

Whether she is what any team "needs" is dependent on who is being unreasonable here.
Whether this is something Tenn needs or not---Tenn surely needs a change--Loaded with talent
and how is it used???
 

DefenseBB

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Appears to be just what Tennessee needs. Maybe they should just swap coaching staffs. WSU would be happy with undemanding coach, and UT might start playing up to their potential.
While it is to make cheap, light jokes this story actually has serious abuse and harassment considerations that need to be played out and is not a joking matter to the student-athletes and their families. This could be similar to Swoops and Nebraska situations so while we all mock the Tenn situation due to what we perceive as poor coaching, do not mock the case of potential abuse.
 
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I am sure Pat would have had the same type of problems with the current generation..... everyone gets a trophy .....everyone is special. Then they get to college and have a reality check. . . . Imagine if Pat had coached Diamond .

I do not know if this coach went to far, however the good coaches are demanding.. . . .. again, a lot of kids have been pampered and have never heard the word NO


We've all seen video of Geno on the practice court..........I'm sure in some people's minds, he could be considered mildly verbally abusive...........I think it's the intent of the coach that really matters............
 

ThisJustIn

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...I think it's the intent of the coach that really matters..

Intent v. impact. You recognize one but deny the other?

As for "everyone gets a trophy" - 1) obviously that's not true and 2) it's the parents who are demanding kids get trophies so 3) clearly, it the parents of the parents who are to blame....
 
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Intent v. impact. You recognize one but deny the other?

As for "everyone gets a trophy" - 1) obviously that's not true and 2) it's the parents who are demanding kids get trophies so 3) clearly, it the parents of the parents who are to blame....

In some instances yes...........if a recruit does his/her homework and knows that a head coach will yell and scream as a motivational tool or run his/her players to exhaustion then he or she has to decide if that is the type of program they want to participate in........as we know, there are plenty of ultra talented players that don't even consider UConn because they recognize that they just don't have the mindset necessary to succeed under Geno's relentless tutelage..............making the right choice up front solves the vast majority of these issues although clearly conflicts can arise anywhere, any time.............
 
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I am sure Pat would have had the same type of problems with the current generation..... everyone gets a trophy .....everyone is special. Then they get to college and have a reality check. . . . Imagine if Pat had coached Diamond .

I do not know if this coach went to far, however the good coaches are demanding.. . . .. again, a lot of kids have been pampered and have never heard the word NO

Wow! That's an interesting reaction to the article. I'm glad you didn't refer to the players as 'those people, but you got close.
 

UcMiami

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I am sure Pat would have had the same type of problems with the current generation..... everyone gets a trophy .....everyone is special. Then they get to college and have a reality check. . . . Imagine if Pat had coached Diamond .
You don't have to - she coached Simmons for two years.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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You don't have to - she coached Simmons for two years.
Apparently Pat did have problems, but overcame them until health overcame her. CVS mentioned it as the subject of one of their late night phone calls.

Incidentally, not that I doubted Vivian, but Pat's last book specifically mentioned that CVS was a late night phone pal. I found the book fascinating.
 
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While student sensibilities have changed over the last few decades those changes do not tell the full story. I think there are other factors at play. I think many (most?) athletes expect and like to be coached hard, particularly those competing at a high level. What I think many coaches miss is that you need the student athlete's buy-in to a greater degree than in the past. How and to what degree you get their buy-in dictates the degree to which you can push them without major complaint. The way you get their buy-in to be pushed harder than they can imagine is by:

1) establishing a positive culture around your work "this is how we do it here and that makes us better/the best". We have heard Geno and CD and staff talk about UConn players and the expectations in everything from the effort they practice with every day, to their willingness to work hard, to the way they dress and present themselves and more. There is a UConn culture and you must buy into it;

2) showing that that your methods will help produce the results the athlete is looking for (winning, self-improvement, self-esteem). UConn certainly has the history of greatness to point to;

3) at least occasionally showing a sense of humor and self-depreciating moments. We have witnessed Geno's willingness to dance in front of the team or skip around the gym on his birthday. We have seen players ruffle his hair during a press conference or publicly imitate or make fun of him. I think this is crucial. It doesn't have to happen a lot but it is important;

4) allowing students to come to you (and providing other outlets) to complain/blow-off steam;

5) being willing to explain your methods and your madness. We have seen Geno gather the team in a circle to explain what is going on and the challenges they will face, etc. His ability to accurately predict what lies ahead (without hyperbole) and how to meet that challenge is masterful;

6) being honest with the athletes. Don't over promise or over praise. Let them know where they stand and how they can get more of what they want;

7) making sure the student athlete knows you care about them, you are in this with them and this is being done for them. We have heard Geno say that much of the joy of his work, year-in and year-out, is helping each class of student achieve a national championship or "go out the right way". How many times have we heard Geno and CD say that they ask their athletes what it is they want and once they are told ("win national championships" or "make All American" or simply "get better") that gives them the license to push them hard and harken back to that desire because this hard work is to help them get what they want.

In my view, Geno "gets away" with saying the direct, biting, sarcastic, sometimes over the top things to his team because he has established a winning culture that past experience has proved out and past players come back and vouch for.
 

eebmg

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Another point of emphasis for Geno:

Don't treat your best players with kid gloves: Demand the most from your best players.
 

UcMiami

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While student sensibilities have changed over the last few decades those changes do not tell the full story. I think there are other factors at play. I think many (most?) athletes expect and like to be coached hard, particularly those competing at a high level. What I think many coaches miss is that you need the student athlete's buy-in to a greater degree than in the past. How and to what degree you get their buy-in dictates the degree to which you can push them without major complaint. The way you get their buy-in to be pushed harder than they can imagine is by:

1) establishing a positive culture around your work "this is how we do it here and that makes us better/the best". We have heard Geno and CD and staff talk about UConn players and the expectations in everything from the effort they practice with every day, to their willingness to work hard, to the way they dress and present themselves and more. There is a UConn culture and you must buy into it;

2) showing that that your methods will help produce the results the athlete is looking for (winning, self-improvement, self-esteem). UConn certainly has the history of greatness to point to;

3) at least occasionally showing a sense of humor and self-depreciating moments. We have witnessed Geno's willingness to dance in front of the team or skip around the gym on his birthday. We have seen players ruffle his hair during a press conference or publicly imitate or make fun of him. I think this is crucial. It doesn't have to happen a lot but it is important;

4) allowing students to come to you (and providing other outlets) to complain/blow-off steam;

5) being willing to explain your methods and your madness. We have seen Geno gather the team in a circle to explain what is going on and the challenges they will face, etc. His ability to accurately predict what lies ahead (without hyperbole) and how to meet that challenge is masterful;

6) being honest with the athletes. Don't over promise or over praise. Let them know where they stand and how they can get more of what they want;

7) making sure the student athlete knows you care about them, you are in this with them and this is being done for them. We have heard Geno say that much of the joy of his work, year-in and year-out, is helping each class of student achieve a national championship or "go out the right way". How many times have we heard Geno and CD say that they ask their athletes what it is they want and once they are told ("win national championships" or "make All American" or simply "get better") that gives them the license to push them hard and harken back to that desire because this hard work is to help them get what they want.

In my view, Geno "gets away" with saying the direct, biting, sarcastic, sometimes over the top things to his team because he has established a winning culture that past experience has proved out and past players come back and vouch for.
Nice summary - just want to add a couple of things that make a difference:

8) maintain a stable coaching staff that is both well integrated and on message, but also given autonomy and independence in how they work and interact with the athletes. CD and Geno have both talked about making sure no athlete leaves a practice feeling that the whole staff has been riding them, that they have at least one coach who is in their corner offering encouragement. Call it good cop/bad cop but it is more subtle than that. And it isn't just on the court, but in the offices in individual meetings. You can see the problems in programs that develop when the staff isn't well integrated or empowered, and when there isn't continuity every off season.

9) empower the athletes themselves to take ownership of the program, from involving them in recruit evaluations, through consulting them individually on team issues, to welcoming them back on campus after they graduate. Fostering their participation in integrating each new class in the expectations and ways of the program.

Geno has the advantage over many other coaches in longevity of the program, stability of his staff, success on the court, and track record with graduates of his teams. And not specifically with the Moores and Stewarts, but also the Greenes and Jessica Moores and the ones that have no professional basketball careers - they may not necessarily stand out to recruits, but they do to parents. And the gatherings at the FF are a visual reminder that the four years on campus is just the beginning.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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Nice summary - just want to add a couple of things that make a difference:

8) maintain a stable coaching staff that is both well integrated and on message, but also given autonomy and independence in how they work and interact with the athletes. CD and Geno have both talked about making sure no athlete leaves a practice feeling that the whole staff has been riding them, that they have at least one coach who is in their corner offering encouragement. Call it good cop/bad cop but it is more subtle than that. And it isn't just on the court, but in the offices in individual meetings. You can see the problems in programs that develop when the staff isn't well integrated or empowered, and when there isn't continuity every off season.

9) empower the athletes themselves to take ownership of the program, from involving them in recruit evaluations, through consulting them individually on team issues, to welcoming them back on campus after they graduate. Fostering their participation in integrating each new class in the expectations and ways of the program.

Geno has the advantage over many other coaches in longevity of the program, stability of his staff, success on the court, and track record with graduates of his teams. And not specifically with the Moores and Stewarts, but also the Greenes and Jessica Moores and the ones that have no professional basketball careers - they may not necessarily stand out to recruits, but they do to parents. And the gatherings at the FF are a visual reminder that the four years on campus is just the beginning.
Yes to your comments and the prior listing. Except it is not a listing of how to run a team that is unique to UConn - most of those item would probably be echoed by most other coaches as well. Many of these themes were echoed in Pat's final book, as well, and many of them would be found in numerous business related tomes.

What is unique to UConn is the degree to which all those items are accomplished. Execution is precise on the basketball court and likewise in how the coaching staff handles the team. And the one "non-controllable" - at least to a certain extent - ultimate success - has come to UConn in abundance making some of the items indicated all that much easier to accomplish.
 
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I'd say that this escalated quickly but it probably was more a culmination of a lot of things over time that we'll never be privy to and probably for the best.
 

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