What do you think about the one year audition for KO?

[HuskyHawk]

Jordan was the best ever. How's that worked out for him as GM?

How about Isaiah Thomas? There are plenty of examples of guys who had playing experience and couldn't coach.... and vice versa. The fact is, 15 years of coaching is different than 13 years of playing. Whether it's better, worse, or indifferent is unknowable (unless like you, we can predict the future and call Hopkins a success before he's ever coached a game).

Playing, coaching, managing. They are different skills.

You continue to ignore the positive things I've said about KO only to pick a fight. The fact is, no. 13 years of playing is not equivalent to 15 years of coaching. Ollie may very well be succesful. And I don't think Manuel made a mistake in giving him an audition. I've only said that if Warde wants to hire somebody else, that's the job we've hired him to do. He needs to be allowed to do it.

What's Hopkin's record as head coach of Saracuse? You're ASSuming he's going to be succesful. Nobody knows how that will work out.

Once again, Gross did what he WANTED to do. Manuel was FORCED into this decision. That alone makes the situations different. If Manuel had wanted to name Ollie the coach in waiting 2 years ago, that's his decision. He didn't make that decision though for a reason. He should be allowed to do his job, it doesn't matter who you trust more.

Exactly right. And look at coaches in other sports like Belichick and Bill Walsh, who never really played. It is a different skill set to play vs. coach. Now Kevin has intangibles as a player that suggest that he's coaching material. I'd say the same about say, Jason Varitek. That doesn't mean they skip to the top of the ladder and don't start at the bottom.

For all that, as a UConn fan it would be fantastic if Kevin Ollie turns out to be a superb coach. We all win in that scenario. But if it backfires, like it or not, it's on Saint James Calhoun for preventing the AD from doing his job with a proper search and evaluation.

 

[BlueMAB]

Yeah, I can't take you seriously because you're coming on here claiming Manuel gave Ollie his fullest support. Please!!!!!!

Please quote the post where I said Manuel gave Ollie his fullest support.

 

[upstater]

Yes, it counts for something. But we don't know how important it is until he actually does the job. I also wrote there are plenty of examples both positive and negative of players with a lot of experience becoming coaching.

IMO, an assistant with 17 years of experience at a high major program under a hall of fame coach, is not comparable to a guy with 13 years of playing in the NBA.
Ollie could turn out to be a better coach, we won't know for awhile, but you compared the situation simply because they are both assistants. That's all they have in common. And Hopkins hasn't coached a game, but you continue to make the argument Gross made the right decision, as if it's a foregone conclusion that he will be succesfull.

Were I a Syracuse fan choosing between Hopkins and Ollie, I take Ollie.

Never said anything about Gross making the right decision.

 

[upstater]

Please quote the post where I said Manuel gave Ollie his fullest support.

Me: "Because there are surely other posters here who are not fans of the Ollie hire but who also believe it's important for the school to support the coach it chooses in the fullest manner possible."

You on Manuel: "He did that. He was stuck with Ollie, whether he wanted him or not. So he gave him a one year audition without an "interim" tag. Meaning it's his to lose going forward, he is not simply a temp."

 

[BlueMAB]

Were I a Syracuse fan choosing between Hopkins and Ollie, I take Ollie.

Never said anything about Gross making the right decision.

Gross did the smart thing and took the expert's recommendation.

 

[BlueMAB]

Me: "Because there are surely other posters here who are not fans of the Ollie hire but who also believe it's important for the school to support the coach it chooses in the fullest manner possible."

You on Manuel: "He did that. He was stuck with Ollie, whether he wanted him or not. So he gave him a one year audition without an "interim" tag. Meaning it's his to lose going forward, he is not simply a temp."

Ok, I'll explain.

The fullest manner possible has different meanings to you, I, and Warde Manuel.

WM didn't want to hire Ollie, I think that's pretty clear. He was stuck with him, HIS fullest manner possible of supporting Ollie was to give him the job for one year without the interim tag.

Your "fullest manner possible" may have been a 3 year contract.

Someone else's "fullest manner possible" may have been a 5 year contract, Calhoun's may have been a 10 year contract, and to Ollie's wife that might mean coach for life.

It's obvious that I wasn't making the argument that Manuel did everything you, other fans, or KO wanted to show him the fullest support possible, but that Manuel showed him the fullest support possible that he was comfortable showing since he clearly didn't want to hire him without going through the full process of interviewing numerous candidates.

I made the mistake of assuming you could understand that since I clearly said he didn't want to hire him in the first place. Cheesus.

 

[IMind]

I posted this in the other thread but it's applies here.

Is this the optimal situation? No... but I think this isn't a horrible compromise. I mean look, it's clear Kevin Ollie isn't the ADs guy. If he was he'd have a four year deal... but I think by not attaching the dreaded interim tag does mean a little something.

I think a little too much is being made of the one year deal thing. This season was going to be written off anyway, and if Calhoun retired next March you'd be in the exact same situation you'll be if you decide by March that KO isn't the guy. You'd still have to do a coaching search. You still would have to wait until after the NCAA tournament to get anyone most likely anyway... unless you got an assistant from somewhere... and I can't see that happening. Recruiting would take a hit no matter what.... it gives KO a chance to earn the job. If he's even reasonably successful with all the crap stacked against him then KO will force the matter.

Quite frankly I think this will all be decided either way by February. If Manuel doesn't have this worked out by April or just gives Ollie another one year deal then I'll jump all over the guy...

It sucks a bit all around... but it is what it is. I personally believe that KO is going to be the coach this time next year with a long term contract.

 

[Taco]

I think the one year sends potential recruits the right message - that the program is not going to be allowed to backslide. I think KO will do a good job with what he's got this year (even better than they would have w/ JC??), but if not you don't want to fall into obscurity like say St Johns after Carneseca or Seton Hall after PJ. Recruits will hopefully look at the situation thinking UCONN will achieve or they'll go out and get a big name coach.

 

[upstater]

The smart thing is taking the expert's recommendation.

That doesn't mean Hopkins is going to be a good coach.

 

[upstater]

Ok, I'll explain.

The fullest manner possible has different meanings to you, I, and Warde Manuel.

WM didn't want to hire Ollie, I think that's pretty clear. He was stuck with him, HIS fullest manner possible of supporting Ollie was to give him the job for one year without the interim tag.

Your "fullest manner possible" may have been a 3 year contract.

Someone else's "fullest manner possible" may have been a 5 year contract, Calhoun's may have been a 10 year contract, and to Ollie's wife that might mean coach for life.

It's obvious that I wasn't making the argument that Manuel did everything you, other fans, or KO wanted to show him the fullest support possible, but that Manuel showed him the fullest support possible that he was comfortable showing since he clearly didn't want to hire him without going through the full process of interviewing numerous candidates.

I made the mistake of assuming you could understand that since I clearly said he didn't want to hire him in the first place. Cheesus.

This is weasly. Clearly, several of us are saying here that Ollie should have been given more support. The point we're making: Manuel's fullest support should have meant a longer term deal. Can't understand why you're being argumentative here.

 

[BlueMAB]

http://borgesblognhr.blogspot.com/

“I’m looking to see how he is on the sidelines, how he handles decision-making, how he does substitutions and things that are normal in the course of a game,” he said. “How does he handle a loss with a team, how does he motivate them the next day to come back and play. How's he handling practice and the staff and all the things that come with being a head coach at this level. I want to see it, because I can’t turn to somebody and say, ‘Hey, how did he do? How was he as a head coach?’ I need to see that. It really, truly is a long-term plan. I want to see where Kevin is before I extend that long-term contract. But I love Kevin, I’ve enjoyed working with him the past six months. I see why Jim believes in him so much, but I want to see it myself before I would make that determination.”


this is an entirely fair and professional manner of handling this situation.

 

[upstater]

I think the one year sends potential recruits the right message - that the program is not going to be allowed to backslide. I think KO will do a good job with what he's got this year (even better than they would have w/ JC??), but if not you don't want to fall into obscurity like say St Johns after Carneseca or Seton Hall after PJ. Recruits will hopefully look at the situation thinking UCONN will achieve or they'll go out and get a big name coach.

UConn will achieve what in the next year in recruits' eyes?

What are recruits going to see. It's February 15th. What are they seeing?

 

[BlueMAB]

This is weasly. Clearly, several of us are saying here that Ollie should have been given more support. The point we're making: Manuel's fullest support should have meant a longer term deal. Can't understand why you're being argumentative here.

He doesn't deserve a longer deal, and if Manuel didn't want to hire him in the first place without a full coaching search to see all interested applicants, why in the world would he give him a long term deal? He's never been the head coach, and he deserves a 3-4 year deal to one of the top programs in the country? Were it not for Calhoun he probably wouldn't even be seriously considered. That may be a mistake or it may not, but it's the truth.

You'd rather he give him a 3 year deal and start interviewing the spring so he can fire him and hire the guy he wants rather than being open, honest, and professional?

 

[BlueMAB]

The smart thing is taking the expert's recommendation.

That doesn't mean Hopkins is going to be a good coach.

Experts make poor recommendations all the time. The smart thing is hiring the guy you want and owning the decision. The weasly thing is allowing someone else to do your job for you. If Gross believes in Hopkins, fine. If he doesn't, and is just going to point to Boeheim, he's not doing his job.

 

[upstater]

Experts make poor recommendations all the time. The smart thing is hiring the guy you want and owning the decision. The weasly thing is allowing someone else to do your job for you. If Gross believes in Hopkins, fine. If he doesn't, and is just going to point to Boeheim, he's not doing his job.

Experts have more expertise and make expert decisions more often than non-experts.

 

[upstater]

He doesn't deserve a longer deal, and if Manuel didn't want to hire him in the first place without a full coaching search to see all interested applicants, why in the world would he give him a long term deal? He's never been the head coach, and he deserves a 3-4 year deal to one of the top programs in the country? Were it not for Calhoun he probably wouldn't even be seriously considered. That may be a mistake or it may not, but it's the truth.

You'd rather he give him a 3 year deal and start interviewing the spring so he can fire him and hire the guy he wants rather than being open, honest, and professional?

I mean, people have already stated the point 1,000 times. It doesn't matter if Bugs Bunny is your coach, you support him.

He can fire Ollie whenever.

 

[HuskyHawk]

http://borgesblognhr.blogspot.com/

“I’m looking to see how he is on the sidelines, how he handles decision-making, how he does substitutions and things that are normal in the course of a game,” he said. “How does he handle a loss with a team, how does he motivate them the next day to come back and play. How's he handling practice and the staff and all the things that come with being a head coach at this level. I want to see it, because I can’t turn to somebody and say, ‘Hey, how did he do? How was he as a head coach?’ I need to see that. It really, truly is a long-term plan. I want to see where Kevin is before I extend that long-term contract. But I love Kevin, I’ve enjoyed working with him the past six months. I see why Jim believes in him so much, but I want to see it myself before I would make that determination.”

this is an entirely fair and professional manner of handling this situation.

Absolutely. It is, in my view, the only fair and professional manner of handling it that involves KO being the coach at all.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I mean, people have already stated the point 1,000 times. It doesn't matter if Bugs Bunny is your coach, you support him.

He can fire Ollie whenever.

So let me get this straight. Schools jump conferences and end rivalries over a lousy million dollars or two, but paying somebody about $1.3M not to coach for two years is no big deal. Just fire him. At a state university. That is irresponsible. If you don't know that he's the guy, you don't give him the contract. End of story. Kevin was free to walk and I'm sure Hobbs or somebody else would be happy with the one year gig. But unless Izzo, K, Self, Donovan or similar called Warde and begged for the job at JC's old pay, nobody in the country warranted a multi-year contract at this point. JC forced that with his timing.

 

[BlueMAB]

Experts have more expertise and make expert decisions more often than non-experts.

Hiring a coach is not the same as coaching a game.

It is not Calhoun's job to hire his replacement. It is Warde Manuel's.

Whether hiring Ollie is the right decision won't be known for some time. But arguing that he should show support for someone he doesn't support is assinine.

 

[BlueMAB]

I mean, people have already stated the point 1,000 times. It doesn't matter if Bugs Bunny is your coach, you support him.

He can fire Ollie whenever.

Unless you're stuck with Bugs Bunny because you never wanted to hire him. You're arguing he give him a long deal knowing full well he doesn't intend to honor it.

That way a year from now if we have a new coach, you can all make the argument that Manuel never really supported him anyway, was always going to fire him, and the guy with no head coaching experience given the keys to a top 5 program was treated unfairly.

Ollie is blessed to have a one year audition, and he knows it.

 

[upstater]

So let me get this straight. Schools jump conferences and end rivalries over a lousy million dollars or two.

No, this doesn't happen. They don't jump conferences over a lousy million or two. They jump conferences when there are $10 million per year differences extrapolated over 10, 20, 30 years, which means hundreds of millions are at stake.

But paying somebody about $1.3M not to coach for two years is no big deal. Just fire him. At a state university.

Maybe Uconn should join the colonial league instead of doing what every single bigtime other school in America does.

That is irresponsible. If you don't know that he's the guy, you don't give him the contract. End of story.

Kevin was free to walk and I'm sure Hobbs or somebody else would be happy with the one year gig. But unless Izzo, K, Self, Donovan or similar called Warde and begged for the job at JC's old pay, nobody in the country warranted a multi-year contract at this point. JC forced that with his timing.

Quite honestly, this is delusional. You way overrate the UConn job. If you think no one but those coaches warrant a long-term contract, you are completely unaware of how this game is played. Randy Edsall, for heaven's sake, had a long-term contract. There are assistants out there who have been hired at bigtime programs with 10 year contracts. It's not just the established coaches who get these contracts. It's everybody. Ollie is an anomaly.

 

[upstater]

Unless you're stuck with Bugs Bunny because you never wanted to hire him. You're arguing he give him a long deal knowing full well he doesn't intend to honor it.

That way a year from now if we have a new coach, you can all make the argument that Manuel never really supported him anyway, was always going to fire him, and the guy with no head coaching experience given the keys to a top 5 program was treated unfairly.

Ollie is blessed to have a one year audition, and he knows it.

Manuel doesn't intend to keep Ollie on? Interesting.

 

[upstater]

Hiring a coach is not the same as coaching a game.

It is not Calhoun's job to hire his replacement. It is Warde Manuel's.

Whether hiring Ollie is the right decision won't be known for some time. But arguing that he should show support for someone he doesn't support is assinine.

Calhoun is the expert. He knows more about coaching basketball.

 

[8893]

Unless you're stuck with Bugs Bunny because you never wanted to hire him. You're arguing he give him a long deal knowing full well he doesn't intend to honor it.

I don't believe anyone is arguing that he should have gotten a long term deal. What Upstater, some others and I are saying is that you give him a two-year deal because you want to have a short period of evaluation during which you don't want him to be hampered by the immediate threat of not being renewed, and the perception that follows from that.

What it comes down to at its most basic level is one's philosophy on how you treat and motivate the people who work for you. It is absolutely correct to say that this was Manuel's decision--and only Manuel's decision--to make. I am just surprised at what I believe it tells me about him, because I think that the better approach, based on my experience and observation, is to give someone in whom you believe as much support as you can, while still protecting the enterprise. I have heard no sound reason whatsoever for the seven-month contract as opposed to a two-year deal. No idea where you came up with $1.3M. He is getting some $300K for this season.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Quite honestly, this is delusional. You way overrate the UConn job. If you think no one but those coaches warrant a long-term contract, you are completely unaware of how this game is played. Randy Edsall, for heaven's sake, had a long-term contract. There are assistants out there who have been hired at bigtime programs with 10 year contracts. It's not just the established coaches who get these contracts. It's everybody. Ollie is an anomaly.

Are you even paying attention? Of course they get long term contracts. After a search and an exhaustive interview process. We didn't have one. And thanks to JC's very intentional timing, having one was impossible. Under those circumstances, giving a long term contract to anyone other than an absolute slam dunk, sure thing, can't-miss hire would be idiotic. Kevin Ollie is not that. Few people are. Had Jim retired in the spring, and a search conducted, whoever was hired would have gotten a 3-5 year deal most likely. Even if it was Kevin Ollie. However, we are forced to hire an interim coach this year, whether called that or not (and I think it was smart not to call KO that). The only anomaly here is not Kevin Ollie, it's the fact that a major university had to hire a coach on such short notice without going through a normal process.