We have one wart...

[Adios]

Kelly is a dirty, dirty man. Unsurprising ND fans are not calling for his ouster. Win at all costs.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

Kelly is a dirty, dirty man. Unsurprising ND fans are not calling for his ouster. Win at all costs.

Not seeing the problem.

 

[TouchdownHusky]

It does not matter why Diggs is at Maryland, only that he is there. In case you've never noticed there is a bit of a correlation between where a player lives and where they go to school.

Except in Connecticut, where the grass is always greener elsewhere.

 

[ctchamps]

Is there any chance whatsoever you actually have a quote that anyone claims Edsall was forced out to bring in P? Even one in the two years since Edsall left?

I would like to interject something. I can't support it with evidence. I still find it interesting.

IMO, RE and JC had major problems with Hathaway. Hathaway did not back either coach in the most basic things - PR, academic accommodation, and support staff. JC and RE are polar opposite personalities. JC grumbles publicly, RE does things privately. JC will rebel openly, give someone the finger and move on, RE will follow the rules but resent things. The results of UConn's current situation can directly be linked to Hathaway.

Coaches at all institutions are squeezed between various competing interests and powers. There are those who are unwilling to compromise academic standards with athletes and those who are willing to compromise. Like it or not the majority, if not the overwhelming majority of universities are gaming the system when it comes to ensuring that athletes enter and stay at the universities and comply with NCAA rules. They have lowered standards of courses and attendance or fudged results or both.

JH refused to allow RE and JC the same option. If he did it on principles, I would have supported him. But JH was not a principled person. He was vindictive and his approach to the coaches was a power play only. To keep up the profile of the bb program in an environment where more and more schools were "cheating" at ever greater lengths, JC chose to accept players with character and academic issues. Most universities were doing the same but they created a system to reduce the impacts of those issues. The negative result of JC's decision was threefold. Problems developed which became public and impacted the reputation of JC and the program. The APR fiasco arose. And JC's health was impacted. JH imo fostered these things.

RE followed the rules. But the result was a plateauing of the program. His resentment of JH, and JH's unwillingness to bend the rules, resulted in his decision to bolt. There was no excuse for his approach to the players, but his resentment to JH and the university had been going on for years. Hence his poor approach to his exit.

There is a reason why PP was chosen by Hathaway. Hathaway does not like to be challenged, and when he is, he undermines the challenger. PP fit the mold of a person JH wants. He is quiet and non challenging. And if JH was going to chose someone else, Burton's actions ensured the hire of PP. Burton absolutely created his own PR fiasco with how he handled things. And he allowed JH to get public sympathy at the time he chose PP. But the choice by JH was to scr*w Burton and get a yes man into position. JH was not interested in pushing anything to the forefront other than himself, and this included football, basketball, academic standards, or fundraising.

When Sue Herbst was appointed president, she did what should have been done years earlier. She would have fired JH immediately, but legal restraints forced her to go through the protocols of examining the AD office. There were reasons JH went quietly and quickly after the report was finalized. And there are reasons, from JH's point of view, that he wanted the report sealed. Sue Herbst had no need to do otherwise. She just wanted him out of the university as quickly as possible.

After taking her position, President Herbst immediately reached out to JC to begin the mending process of a valuable asset to the university. It was too late for RE. The mess Sue Herbst inherited when she took over was considerable. No one knows how things will play out, but I like her at the helm. And if she supports WM, I'll support him as well even if I might disagree with some of his approaches to things. I recognize he is in a bind with how he has to approach things relative to the damage that was created by his predecessor, and, fairly or not, how much scrutiny the university is receiving from outside positions that have their own agendas.

 

[businesslawyer]

I would like to interject something. I can't support it with evidence. I still find it interesting.

IMO, RE and JC had major problems with Hathaway. Hathaway did not back either coach in the most basic things - PR, academic accommodation, and support staff. JC and RE are polar opposite personalities. JC grumbles publicly, RE does things privately. JC will rebel openly, give someone the finger and move on, RE will follow the rules but resent things. The results of UConn's current situation can directly be linked to Hathaway.

Coaches at all institutions are squeezed between various competing interests and powers. There are those who are unwilling to compromise academic standards with athletes and those who are willing to compromise. Like it or not the majority, if not the overwhelming majority of universities are gaming the system when it comes to ensuring that athletes enter and stay at the universities and comply with NCAA rules. They have lowered standards of courses and attendance or fudged results or both.

JH refused to allow RE and JC the same option. If he did it on principles, I would have supported him. But JH was not a principled person. He was vindictive and his approach to the coaches was a power play only. To keep up the profile of the bb program in an environment where more and more schools were "cheating" at ever greater lengths, JC chose to accept players with character and academic issues. Most universities were doing the same but they created a system to reduce the impacts of those issues. The negative result of JC's decision was threefold. Problems developed which became public and impacted the reputation of JC and the program. The APR fiasco arose. And JC's health was impacted. JH imo fostered these things.

RE followed the rules. But the result was a plateauing of the program. His resentment of JH, and JH's unwillingness to bend the rules, resulted in his decision to bolt. There was no excuse for his approach to the players, but his resentment to JH and the university had been going on for years. Hence his poor approach to his exit.

There is a reason why PP was chosen by Hathaway. Hathaway does not like to be challenged, and when he is, he undermines the challenger. PP fit the mold of a person JH wants. He is quiet and non challenging. And if JH was going to chose someone else, Burton's actions ensured the hire of PP. Burton absolutely created his own PR fiasco with how he handled things. And he allowed JH to get public sympathy at the time he chose PP. But the choice by JH was to scr*w Burton and get a yes man into position. JH was not interested in pushing anything to the forefront other than himself, and this included football, basketball, academic standards, or fundraising.

When Sue Herbst was appointed president, she did what should have been done years earlier. She would have fired JH immediately, but legal restraints forced her to go through the protocols of examining the AD office. There were reasons JH went quietly and quickly after the report was finalized. And there are reasons, from JH's point of view, that he wanted the report sealed. Sue Herbst had no need to do otherwise. She just wanted him out of the university as quickly as possible.

After taking her position, President Herbst immediately reached out to JC to begin the mending process of a valuable asset to the university. It was too late for RE. The mess Sue Herbst inherited when she took over was considerable. No one knows how things will play out, but I like her at the helm. And if she supports WM, I'll support him as well even if I might disagree with some of his approaches to things. I recognize he is in a bind with how he has to approach things relative to the damage that was created by his predecessor, and, fairly or not, how much scrutiny the university is receiving from outside positions that have their own agendas.

That is an absolutely great post.

While I will always believe that it was way too early to come to the conclusion that our football program had gone as high as it would with our former coach (I recognize the possibility but to reach that conclusion was too soon), I think you are spot on in terms of his relationship with Hathaway being a huge part of the cause behind his departure.