USA vs Canada

[doggydaddy]

Nah, I posted it because it was my honest opinion. I just knew that I wasn't going to find much agreement.

I didn't follow women's basketball closely when Bird was at her best by I know that reputation of hers and her statistics going back are impressive. They weren't as impressive last year, though.

I didn't know she was the captain. That obviously carries weight. But you could appoint a new captain. Taurasi would be a fine choice.

You are welcome to your opinion. At least when I thought you were just rattling the cage here I could buy into it. But really?

Making the call on cutting the captain based on one years stats is an interesting way to do it.

 

[RadyLady]

Geno says there may be travel issues with Griner's eye that could impact her playing. Would be a huge loss for Team USA if Griner and Fowles don't play. Should still win the Gold Medal.

EDD also may not be able to travel due to her back injury.

Info came from John A tweets

Found the tweetys

 

[meyers7]

Bird and DT not on this WC team, is just nonsense. They are the captains, it's their team. They are as locks as locks can get. Hell, Bird is probably in on the discussion with Geno and Dawn on who the "heir apparent" is gonna be.

Anyone think if Geno says "starting 5 on the floor", Bird and DT are not gonna get up and go? You think Whalen, Diggins, Sims, McBride, Vandersloot would dare move?

 

[Orangutan]

You are welcome to your opinion. At least when I thought you were just rattling the cage here I could buy into it. But really?

Making the call on cutting the captain based on one years stats is an interesting way to do it.

I'm a big fan of advanced stats. Maybe too big. That being said....Bird graded out as a below average PG this year by PER. Her shooting stats fell off a cliff. Maybe there was something seriously wrong in Seattle? Maybe she was playing hurt. There are possible explanations.

But she wasn't good this season in the WNBA. I know Team USA is a different team, but there is a chasm in between the performance level of Bird this year and the levels of Taurasi, Diggins, and Whalen.

 

[Gate81]

So as of now is it your opinion that Bird is playing better than Whalen?

 

[easttexastrash]

That goes both ways...

If they can win gold now without experience, why can't they do it then?

Who knows what the supporting case will look like then. Will DT be available, Whalen, Bird, ? None of them are getting younger and their bodies may not let them play at that point. And the young players may not have the same supporting cast and may need to be ready to take control by then and not have the luxury of being "eased" into their roles. And let's not pretend that Whalen and DT are incapable of tutoring these young guards now.

 

[easttexastrash]

Bird and DT not on this WC team, is just nonsense. They are the captains, it's their team. They are as locks as locks can get. Hell, Bird is probably in on the discussion with Geno and Dawn on who the "heir apparent" is gonna be.

Anyone think if Geno says "starting 5 on the floor", Bird and DT are not gonna get up and go? You think Whalen, Diggins, Sims, McBride, Vandersloot would dare move?

IMO, Whalen is the bet PG in world at this point.

 

[easttexastrash]

Anyone think if Geno says "starting 5 on the floor", Bird and DT are not gonna get up and go? You think Whalen, Diggins, Sims, McBride, Vandersloot would dare move?

I assume that if they were told prior to the game that they were starting that they would have no choice.

 

[easttexastrash]

Yes, Bird is the captain. Probably along with DT. It was Bird/DT/Catchings. Now it's Bird/DT's team. After the USA-USA scrimmage, it was Bird who called everyone (both teams) in for word after the game.

Maybe Bird will also have a place as a coach on the team if she is cut from the final 12. She would probably have more value coaching these young players than mentoring them as a teammate.

 

[warbler1055]

IMO, Whalen is the bet PG in world at this point.

Wow, I like Whalen a lot. But to put her ahead of DT and SB is pure insanity.

 

[easttexastrash]

Regardless of who makes the team, I hope that everyone who goes to Europe plays their best and fells good about the experience.

 

[easttexastrash]

Wow, I like Whalen a lot. But to put her ahead of DT and SB is pure insanity.

Let me clarify. I doubt that DT will play much PG on the team. I would take her at the point over anyone else in the world, but she most likely will not play that role on this team. Based on the game vs. Canada, the US needs some wings who can stroke the 3, which is what DT will be asked to do.

Whalen convinced me in the WNBA playoffs that she is the best PG not named Diana in the league, and it wasn't even close, IMO.

 

[Kibitzer]

Maybe Bird will also have a place as a coach on the team if she is cut from the final 12. She would probably have more value coaching these young players than mentoring them as a teammate.

Geno already has a complete supply of proven and experienced coaches, so there is no room for another, no matter who it is.

Sue Bird's place is on the court as captain and point guard and leader of the 2014 National USA Women's Basketball Team to a gold medal victory in Turkey.

Case closed!

 

[RadyLady]

It's called "the big picture"

in color for some

black and white for others

and snow for the rest.

 

[UcMiami]

I'm a big fan of advanced stats. Maybe too big. That being said....Bird graded out as a below average PG this year by PER. Her shooting stats fell off a cliff. Maybe there was something seriously wrong in Seattle? Maybe she was playing hurt. There are possible explanations.

But she wasn't good this season in the WNBA. I know Team USA is a different team, but there is a chasm in between the performance level of Bird this year and the levels of Taurasi, Diggins, and Whalen.

I do find stats interesting though I have a hard time going with some of these at this point. Based on Win Shares and Defensive Win Shares for example Tiffany Hayes should definitely have been in camp this year. And a stat like PER which is supposed to be measuring all players equally but ends up with forwards and centers as the top 8 players obviously is doing something a little screwy. And based on this measure i can't understand why Jia Perkins isn't in camp as well as she is clearly superior to Diggins and both are clearly better than Whalen or Taurasi as well as Bird.

The thing is USA basketball is like a F1 car and not something you really want to turn over to a person who just got their drivers license, or even to someone who has just finished their first year in CART ranking at the bottom of the table. You bring that person in and give them a year or two doing test laps.
Diggins had a nice year after having had a dreadful year as a rookie and her team lost 22 games. Sims had a nice rookie year on the same team. Sue had an OK year for her on a team that also lost 22 games, but she has 12 years of international experience and 12 years of USA basketball experience to go with a very good understanding of what the USA coach wants from her position and the strengths and weakness of her veteran USA teammates who she has played with for 4 - 12 years. She knows where DT wants the ball, or Angel, or Maya, or Tina, etc. And she knows what playing 9 games in 11 days is like at the WC having done it three times before. Neither Sims or Diggins has played a single professional international game.
And this is not an 'all star' team where scoring is king - this is an international competition with all star players trying quickly to become a team to compete against other teams that have been practicing for months. The USA team needs organization as much as anything because while they have a lot of talent, if they are not organized offensively and defensively they will not win. We saw that happen to the USA men's team not that long ago because all the players figured all they had to do was show up. USA lost three international competitions in a row from 2002-2006. At least the women only lost the 2006 WC.

 

[easttexastrash]

Case closed!

Debate settled...LOL

Time to move on to the next debate.

 

[pap49cba]

"I trust Sue, I trust Diana [Taurasi] against anybody, anytime, anywhere, regardless of their age," Auriemma continued. "And Lindsay's in that category. When Lindsay's on the floor, I have complete trust in her." (Geno)

LINK

 

[easttexastrash]

Whichever PGs you put out there with Maya, DT, Charles, Griner, Dupree, Nneka, etc., the US will bring home gold. Even if it were Diggins and Sims instead of Bird and Whalen, the US would still win gold. So no matter who makes the team, I will enjoy seeing a gold medal at the end of the WC.

 

[easttexastrash]

"I trust Sue, I trust Diana [Taurasi] against anybody, anytime, anywhere, regardless of their age," Auriemma continued. "And Lindsay's in that category. When Lindsay's on the floor, I have complete trust in her." (Geno)

LINK

And it is true. Those players are very trustworthy.

 

[UConnCat]

"I trust Sue, I trust Diana [Taurasi] against anybody, anytime, anywhere, regardless of their age," Auriemma continued. "And Lindsay's in that category. When Lindsay's on the floor, I have complete trust in her." (Geno)

LINK

"That young backcourt looked really good, but I don't know how good they would look playing against 30-year-olds in Turkey," Auriemma said. "So I think trying to have a combination of the [youth and experience] might be really good. But it's going to be really hard. I've always said when you have experience, age and experience tends to win out over youth and talent. I'm glad we're adding somebody who is pretty good to our backcourt later in the week because it all starts with your guards."

 

[ed4ourgirls]

. . . Case closed!

Is that the same as "hands down"?

 

[pap49cba]

Sounds like either Diggins or Sims will make the team but not both.

 

[Kibitzer]

Sounds like either Diggins or Sims will make the team but not both.

I agree with this assessment, but it is possible that both or neither will make the team, depending in some measure how medical issues affect Delle Donne or Griner (or how the committee evaluates players like Vandersloot or McBride).

But for purposes of sustaining this topic -- Sims or Diggins -- let me weigh in.

I believe they are both wonderfully talented young guards who have a great future with USA basketball. But if the immediate futre allows only one to play in Turkey, I would favor Sims.

Diggins seems to me to try to do too much, to the extent that on offense it upsets the rhythm or cadence of the half-court offense. Her propensity for what I consider to be excessive dribbling is an example of the point I am trying to make.

In contrast, Sims (not Phil Simms, the NFL analyst) seems to "fit" much better at both ends of the court. Her game (IMO) is similar to Whalen's but just not yet as developed.

Let me repeat, "they are both wonderfully talented young guards," but I think Sims is the preferred choice now for the USA team.

 

[doggydaddy]

I'm a big fan of advanced stats. Maybe too big. That being said....Bird graded out as a below average PG this year by PER. Her shooting stats fell off a cliff. Maybe there was something seriously wrong in Seattle? Maybe she was playing hurt. There are possible explanations.

But she wasn't good this season in the WNBA. I know Team USA is a different team, but there is a chasm in between the performance level of Bird this year and the levels of Taurasi, Diggins, and Whalen.

PER? You've been reading too much TLG. I'm really not a fan of that stat especially as a be-all/end-all in comparing players.

Just the idea that someone would take a rookie and/or a second year player over the captain and still top quality PG is absurd to me.

Diggins is a shoot first, high volume PG. I don't see how that is a better choice than Bird. The chasm is overstated.

 

[easttexastrash]

I agree with this assessment, but it is possible that both or neither will make the team, depending in some measure how medical issues affect Delle Donne or Griner (or how the committee evaluates players like Vandersloot or McBride).

But for purposes of sustaining this topic -- Sims or Diggins -- let me weigh in.

I believe they are both wonderfully talented young guards who have a great future with USA basketball. But if the immediate futre allows only one to play in Turkey, I would favor Sims.

Diggins seems to me to try to do too much, to the extent that on offense it upsets the rhythm or cadence of the half-court offense. Her propensity for what I consider to be excessive dribbling is an example of the point I am trying to make.

In contrast, Sims (not Phil Simms, the NFL analyst) seems to "fit" much better at both ends of the court. Her game (IMO) is similar to Whalen's but just not yet as developed.

Let me repeat, "they are both wonderfully talented young guards," but I think Sims is the preferred choice now for the USA team.

Sims has certainly demonstrated in the past that she is willing to play the role of "supporting cast" when she played with BG. And her defense is probably stronger that Diggins, Bird and Whalen.