whaler11
Head Happy Hour Coach
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it would seem like a better solution to just have some of the USL teams who do draw big crowds basically be the minor league/reserve squads for the MLS clubs. Don't some USL teams already have associations with MLS parent clubs? It would seem like that would be the sensible way to go. Discard the reserve clubs (Red Bulls 2, etc.....) and instead merge them with existing clubs that pull well (Cincy, Indy, Sacramento, etc). It would shrink the ridiculous size and allow the NASL teams that can stand to remain, the ability to merge into the USL.I think many of these MLS teams will fold their USL teams in the coming years. The MLS reserve teams don't have a following and they have to be a big money loser.
Thank goodness the powers that be don't share your POV.it would seem like a better solution to just have some of the USL teams who do draw big crowds basically be the minor league/reserve squads for the MLS clubs. Don't some USL teams already have associations with MLS parent clubs? It would seem like that would be the sensible way to go. Discard the reserve clubs (Red Bulls 2, etc.....) and instead merge them with existing clubs that pull well (Cincy, Indy, Sacramento, etc). It would shrink the ridiculous size and allow the NASL teams that can stand to remain, the ability to merge into the USL.
To me this is what I envision being the end result.
it would seem like a better solution to just have some of the USL teams who do draw big crowds basically be the minor league/reserve squads for the MLS clubs. Don't some USL teams already have associations with MLS parent clubs? It would seem like that would be the sensible way to go. Discard the reserve clubs (Red Bulls 2, etc.....) and instead merge them with existing clubs that pull well (Cincy, Indy, Sacramento, etc). It would shrink the ridiculous size and allow the NASL teams that can stand to remain, the ability to merge into the USL.
To me this is what I envision being the end result.
But why can't affiliates basically be turned into full reserve teams. So you take a Red Bulls 2 and can the program but ship all the reserves and make them the team in Cincy? Basically like Minor League Baseball. You just use clubs that already have a strong fan base and turn them into the reserve clubs. That was my point. If they wanna add in more players to the reserve squad sure go for it but basically make it the minors.Thank goodness the powers that be don't share your POV.
1. Affiliates like you're talking about are useful, and have been tried in the past. But they're nowhere near as useful as full reserve teams
2. USL sides draw better against MLS2 teams than against fellow USL teams
3. NASL should be able to survive on its own if it's worth keeping around
But why can't affiliates basically be turned into full reserve teams. So you take a Red Bulls 2 and can the program but ship all the reserves and make them the team in Cincy? Basically like Minor League Baseball. You just use clubs that already have a strong fan base and turn them into the reserve clubs. That was my point. If they wanna add in more players to the reserve squad sure go for it but basically make it the minors.
If you aren't going to make a promotion/relegation system, what other point is there to have any other divisions?
I have no idea the numbers in terms of attendance, etc but I don't see why you wouldn't do this if attendance is so low at reserve squad games like you said in your first post.
Some of them are. Most want to remain as independent clubs.But why can't affiliates basically be turned into full reserve teams.
That makes it impossible for RB2 & academy players to train with the first team every day, and to get the same sort of instruction that goes to the top flight. It also makes it impossible to take the most talented teenagers who've yet to sign as pros and get them into the RB2 set-up for entire weeks at a time -- which is crucial for youth development. Tyler Adams wouldn't be Tyler Adams without having had the ability to train every single day with RB2 from age 15 onward.So you take a Red Bulls 2 and can the program but ship all the reserves and make them the team in Cincy?
Why is there independent minor league baseball, or hockey? Why does the Arena Football League exist?Basically like Minor League Baseball. You just use clubs that already have a strong fan base and turn them into the reserve clubs. That was my point. If they wanna add in more players to the reserve squad sure go for it but basically make it the minors.
If you aren't going to make a promotion/relegation system, what other point is there to have any other divisions?
the MLS2 teams don't care about making money off their reserve teams -- it's an R&D expense. USL teams, meanwhile, LOVE having MLS2 teams in the league because they draw bigger crowds on the road and because the MLS affiliation brings stability and cash.I have no idea the numbers in terms of attendance, etc but I don't see why you wouldn't do this if attendance is so low at reserve squad games like you said in your first post.
That's demonstrably untrue. USL clubs have a winning record vs. NASL clubs in the Open Cup.And say what you want about NASL. The standard of play was better generally.
Some of them are. Most want to remain as independent clubs.
That makes it impossible for RB2 & academy players to train with the first team every day, and to get the same sort of instruction that goes to the top flight. It also makes it impossible to take the most talented teenagers who've yet to sign as pros and get them into the RB2 set-up for entire weeks at a time -- which is crucial for youth development. Tyler Adams wouldn't be Tyler Adams without having had the ability to train every single day with RB2 from age 15 onward.
The way it's set up now with reserve teams is optimal for efficient youth development, which is the white whale in US and Canadian soccer. We're already seeing that initiative bear fruit.
Why is there independent minor league baseball, or hockey? Why does the Arena Football League exist?
It's professional soccer being played at a good level by grown men earning a living. Part of that, for USL anyway, is that it exists to bridge the gap between youth/amateur soccer and the top flight, which makes it a clearer and more comprehensive path toward maximizing their potential.
the MLS2 teams don't care about making money off their reserve teams -- it's an R&D expense. USL teams, meanwhile, LOVE having MLS2 teams in the league because they draw bigger crowds on the road and because the MLS affiliation brings stability and cash.
That's demonstrably untrue. USL clubs have a winning record vs. NASL clubs in the Open Cup.
That's how the NFL got its start. AFL champ v NFL champ, before the meger.NASL needs to focus on fans not politics, says Miami FC owner Riccardo Silva
This article mentions that they may have the USL/NASL champs play against each other at the end of the season. That would be interesting.
USL went 4-1 vs. NASL in 2014 USOC, 8-0 in 2015. NASL went 6-2 (all home teams won, all road teams lost) this past year. We'll see what happens in 2017.Show me the stats. Fort Lauderdale got further and they weren't even paying their players. USL is just a developmental league that looks as bad as college soccer for the most part.
USL went 4-1 vs. NASL in 2014 USOC, 8-0 in 2015. NASL went 6-2 (all home teams won, all road teams lost) this past year. We'll see what happens in 2017.
Regardless, the fact that two NASL teams left the league for USL, and that USL squads are generally younger & filled more with prospects than retreads make it a much more entertaining and higher quality product.
My guess is they merge at the end of this year once the legal issues are done, and then split into eastern & western divisions in order to cut down on travel costs.
Minnesota United are joining MLS straight from NASL this year.They left because they want to join MLS.
No, they don't. Also, it's a mistake to call USL players "college soccer no-hopers." Lots of youth internationals and young players developing.The retreads make for a higher standard of play over college soccer no hopers.
Minnesota United are joining MLS straight from NASL this year.
No, they don't. Also, it's a mistake to call USL players "college soccer no-hopers." Lots of youth internationals and young players developing.
The "unpleasantness" started long, long before 2014.Minnesota got the bid three years ago before all of this unpleasantness.
Patently untrue.They are college no hopers, and international no hopers. Very few seem to matriculate up to MLS.
Some teams had bigger payrolls. Some teams had smaller payrolls, and missed paydays. That has not been an issue with USL.NASL by even the eye test is a higher standard even if they are retreads. It no longer has stability but inside the business it was regarded as a step up officially but also subjectively. They had bigger payrolls, the coaches made more and the entry fee was higher.
Simply untrue.It is actually a league where each team is trying to win a championship, whereas the USL is development first which is really uninteresting from a competitive perspective.
I hate American fans whose entire framework for understanding the game is what happens in England. It reveals an unpleasant inferiority complex.Nobody cares what the Table looks like in Premier League 2, but they care what it is in the Championship.
The "unpleasantness" started long, long before 2014.
Patently untrue.
Some teams had bigger payrolls. Some teams had smaller payrolls, and missed paydays. That has not been an issue with USL.
There's a reason one league has expanded and the other has contracted.
Simply untrue.
I hate American fans whose entire framework for understanding the game is what happens in England. It reveals an unpleasant inferiority complex.
Regardless, they care what the looks like in the Spanish Segunda Division, and Spain has been exponentially better at developing talent than England over the past 20 years. If you truly care about domestic soccer than financial stability and talent development are the baskets into which you should be putting your eggs.
Quite the opposite.I hate American fans that have the mentality of glorified gym teachers. I may be looking at England and the Bundesliga, but you're trying to model pro soccer like baseball.
USL will have more teams in 2017 than in 2016. Wilmington are on a hiatus year before the ownership group lands elsewhere, likely Baltimore. This is what happened with Austin and Orlando City back in the day.USL contracted this season. Wilmington and Montreal are gone and there will be more next season. Just watch.
If that's the case, then why doesn't it apply to NASL?Once all these "MLS Ready" USL teams learn that there is no place in the big league they will fizzle away.
Those NASL teams were literally being run by Traffic Sports.The unpleasantness starting with the dissolution of A League you mean? NASL teams wanted a more professional environment so they left.
They've been losing franchises and attendance has shrunk over the last 3 years...They declined the partnership with MLS because they didn't want to limit themselves. That was a fine choice and in the process they raised the bar in this country.
Quite the opposite.
USL will have more teams in 2017 than in 2016. Wilmington are on a hiatus year before the ownership group lands elsewhere, likely Baltimore. This is what happened with Austin and Orlando City back in the day.
If that's the case, then why doesn't it apply to NASL?
Those NASL teams were literally being run by Traffic Sports.
They've been losing franchises and attendance has shrunk over the last 3 years...