Tenn v UConn

[calpedaler]

You say that now, but what if the media did uncover something that UConn did that was covered up and reported it. Would that continue to aid your healing?

Let me be clear, I think it's over and done with. The NCAA found a secondary violation, and that should be the end of story. However, the NCAA doesn't police WBB, and many other sports, as much as it should. If the media were involved, say a reporter dedicated strictly to this, and they did find something, then what?

The same can be said about any school, including Tennessee. Is it better to let the NCAA continue as is, or begin involving the media to do the dirty work that the NCAA doesn't bother with?

Oh my a cover up by UConn!!!!

 

[Huskies Rule]

Sign posted outside Thompson-Boling Arena in Knoxville

[This thread is indisputable evidence that November cannot get here soon enough]

 

[ndmb]

Really? Well, if the reason, which remains unnamed and apparently will forever be unnamable due to its extremely horrendous nature, was viable then, it must still be viable now. So why all of a sudden are the Vols ready to give up their high moral standards and play UCONN? The "right choice at that time" is no longer the right choice? What changed, besides the passage of time? They have just decided to forgive Geno and UCONN for the great wrongness they have done to Tennessee and to the integrity of the sport, ad nauseum, ad nauseum, ad nauseum? Please!

This x10. If all the awful stuff about UConn is true, why are they willing to play us? Surely Warlick knew the specifics about Pat's reasons for cancelling the series. If there are these deep, dark terrible things that UConn is guilty of, as the Tennessee athletic department insinuated and the folks on the Summitt have maintained for all this time, why is it OK to play us now? And if they did insinuate that UConn cheated in ways that are unsubstantiated, untrue, and particularly vitriolic (all the stuff about the house, etc.), why is an apology unwarranted?

 

[ndmb]

You say that now, but what if the media did uncover something that UConn did that was covered up and reported it. Would that continue to aid your healing?

Let me be clear, I think it's over and done with. The NCAA found a secondary violation, and that should be the end of story. However, the NCAA doesn't police WBB, and many other sports, as much as it should. If the media were involved, say a reporter dedicated strictly to this, and they did find something, then what?

The same can be said about any school, including Tennessee. Is it better to let the NCAA continue as is, or begin involving the media to do the dirty work that the NCAA doesn't bother with?

No, it's not the end of the story, because Tennessee did far more than just make the allegations about the tour. They dug up page after page on the boneyard to catch a fan giving a recruit a handmade sign. They insinuated multiple times that there were deeper allegations that they weren't able to prove ("Geno knows why I cancelled the series," etc.). If this was just the allegation about the tour, this all would have blown over by now. I don't know that anyone around here is particularly impressed with the way Vandy handled the whole Mone Davis thing, but it's certainly not a subject of frequent discussion.

They conducted an intentional campaign of mud-slinging to create the illusion that there was foul play at UConn, and there's very little middle ground. Either they were right, in which case they certainly shouldn't be willing to play us now, or they were wrong, in which case they publicly smeared us over nothing. I'm happy to live and let live, once they clear the air and reaffirm that there's no evidence of UConn engaging in any wrongdoing.

 

[AnotherVolFan]

Oh my a cover up by UConn!!!!

O wow this is SO my next avi!!!!

 

[Sonny44]

The whole concept that it's ok to play TN and it's Geno's fault for not making it happen.

My post didn't say a thing about blame. The theme of my post was that given where we are today, years later, the game should be played. It would be good for WCBB.

 

[calpedaler]

O wow this is SO my next avi!!!!

It's good to be percipient.

 

[CL82]

You say that now, but what if the media did uncover something that UConn did that was covered up and reported it. Would that continue to aid your healing?

Let me be clear, I think it's over and done with. The NCAA found a secondary violation, and that should be the end of story. However, the NCAA doesn't police WBB, and many other sports, as much as it should. If the media were involved, say a reporter dedicated strictly to this, and they did find something, then what?

The same can be said about any school, including Tennessee. Is it better to let the NCAA continue as is, or begin involving the media to do the dirty work that the NCAA doesn't bother with?

What if the media broadcast accidently annoyed some super advanced alien race and they wiped out humanity? Could you live with that?

Far fetched? Yeah, I thought so as well.

 

[Kibitzer]

Don't think Kib was in a wheelchair at the time, BTW. He was roaming the stands, a two-legged NCAA-violating beast.

Correct. I began to ride in 2008 (knee replacement), then stroke (2010) and I have been confined to bed (more time for "ahems") since last December.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

ahem.

re-creation.

I'm afraid you failed to get the humor.

 

[boontonbomber]

With Diamond in Knoxville, the odds are certainly greater that Uconn and Tenn. will bump heads in the tournament. I look forward to it.

 

[HuskyNan]

The only reason I said UConn is because this is a UConn board. As you can see at the bottom of my post, I said it could affect any school, including Tennessee.

It's obvious that the NCAA doesn't police WBB as much as it does Football or MBB. There are several examples of secondary violations involved WBB that would be much harsher on Football or MBB. I do think WBB are more quick to self-report than other sports, and that could be a reason why they aren't punished as harshly.

If it did come out that Pat lied and did all of this just to smear UConn, yes, my opinion of her would change. However, at the time the series was cancelled, Tennessee had beaten UConn three years in a row, and was the defending National Champions. If Pat was scared of competition, she would have cancelled the series in the early 2000s when we lost nine of 11 games to UConn.

I'm not getting into an argument about the series, because it doesn't matter. It's over.

My only question was regarding the "what ifs" of involving the media. To me, that's a slippery slope that a lot of coaches probably wouldn't want to climb.

Please. The Connecticut press is all over UConn, so much so that it was dubbed The Horde years ago. Every utterance, every slight, every misstep is covered in gory detail. Opinion columns are numererous and there's zero fear of offending the State U. Most, if not all, of the negative press about either of the high profile basketball teams has originated in the CT press.

There is zero percent chance that the CT press would let Geno off the hook for a recruiting scandal. Witness the absolute furor surrounding Jim calhoun and the recruitment of a kid that never even played a single game for UConn. The press pretty much lived in Calhoun's pocket for months after it was found Calhoun made too many phone calls. No way, no how Geno cheating would go unreported.

 

[Bayareahusky]

With Diamond in Knoxville, the odds are certainly greater that Uconn and Tenn. will bump heads in the tournament. I look forward to it.

I am not convinced that Diamond is going to bring a sea change. For one, Izzy, Burdick, and Ariel are gone, that is a lot of their starting lineup. Also, they are thin in the post.

As for Diamond herself..... she obviously is tremendously gifted. I want to see her play with her teammates first. Will she tend to go Meighan Simmons, or will she involve her teammates..... Will she listen and accept coaching to the necessary degree, or will she assume a de facto coaching spot..... I am not saying she will do these things..... just saying that I would like to see her play as part of the new-look Lady Vols.

 

[yanks61]

Unless these two teams meet in the NCAA Tournament they will never play again while Geno is coach. Geno's reasonable demand for an apology places Coach Warlick in an untenable position. Essentially, she would have to apologize for something she didn't do. To compound the problem, she would have to apologize for something the legendary Coach Summit and the Tennessee administration did ... essentially calling them out. It can't happen.

I wonder if there could be a middle-ish ground. I wonder if Geno would accept something slightly less, a statement like "The University of Tennessee complained to the NCAA about alleged recruiting violations by the UConn women's basketball team. Those allegations were investigated by the NCAA and UConn was cleared of any wrongdoing. The University of Tennessee believes that the results of the NCAA investigation should be the last word on this matter and hopes that time has healed any wounds the allegations may have created."

Having said that I don't think that Geno cares if they ever play again. So they probably won't under his watch.

If I ever have to apologize for anything, I want Judge to write it for me. That was a great "middle ground"apology. Send UT a copy.

 

[Alydar]

The only reason I said UConn is because this is a UConn board. As you can see at the bottom of my post, I said it could affect any school, including Tennessee.

It's obvious that the NCAA doesn't police WBB as much as it does Football or MBB. There are several examples of secondary violations involved WBB that would be much harsher on Football or MBB. I do think WBB are more quick to self-report than other sports, and that could be a reason why they aren't punished as harshly.

If it did come out that Pat lied and did all of this just to smear UConn, yes, my opinion of her would change. However, at the time the series was cancelled, Tennessee had beaten UConn three years in a row, and was the defending National Champions. If Pat was scared of competition, she would have cancelled the series in the early 2000s when we lost nine of 11 games to UConn.

I'm not getting into an argument about the series, because it doesn't matter. It's over.

My only question was regarding the "what ifs" of involving the media. To me, that's a slippery slope that a lot of coaches probably wouldn't want to climb.

You missed the point of the post to which you responded. The media never lets it die. And every time another article like that insinuation-filled piece that Maria C. wrote appears it always refers to vague but sinister allegations that the sainted Ms. Summitt leveled at UConn. There is a small group of wcbb writers, several of whom write for ESPN, that have made the sanctifying of the career of Pat a life's work and in every article they write concerning Geno/Pat they always stop at the ESPN tour and never go to where she publicly accuses Geno and UConn of being cheats. I've never read one word from any of them about whether it was an appropriate thing to do or if she should either support her statement with evidence or if she can't, be reprimanded for what would be an obvious lack of professional ethics.

This has nothing to do with Tenn cancelling the series. The "cheating" accusation came well after that. And it's that public comment that the media has let hang, twisting in the air, for all these years. And as long as it hangs there Geno is guilty in the eyes of everyone wearing orange glasses.

 

[CaliHuskyFan]

Has Maya ever spoken on this issue? I'd be very interested to hear her take on this- from the perspective of the one person whose thoughts and feelings matter the most.

This is an excellent question! Can anyone answer the query that Huskies Rule has posed to this thread?

 

[Buckaroobanzai]

I rather agree, because I don't see what exactly would be the subject of the apology.

1. The only public accusation was that UConn arranged or assisted in scheduling a tour by Maya of the nearby ESPN facility, because she was interested in sports journalism. A nothing violation, arguably not a violation at all, but UConn accepted a secondary violation for it rather than argue. Secondary violations are no big deal, and it's often pointed out here that TN has more of them than UConn does. There was some confusion in the news accounts at the time whether the ESPN thing was reported by Tennessee or self-reported by UConn, but regardless, UConn accepted that it was a violation, so what's to apologize for?

2. Everything else coming out of official TN about Maya was vague. Ms Cronin just acknowledged that TN's problem was "in part" about Maya Moore. Pat Summitt dropped some innuendo about UConn to the media in response to a question about Bruce Pearl, but the innuendo didn't even mention Maya by name.

3. As far as the innuendo, it was wrong and it's still being carried out by certain of PHS's minions and acolytes. But they aren't official, and as far as PHS herself, well, that was what it was.

4. As far as all the "other" stuff TN filed with the NCAA, it went through proper channels and it failed. I don't see an apology as necessary for taking something to the proper forum for adjudication, even if the motivation and/or the substance are questionable. Yes, it was aggravating to a lot of people, including some who post here, but it at least had a rationale. TN played a weak hand and lost. No apology necessary, IMO, for playing it.

5. The really disgusting, apology-warranting stuff about Maya and her mom has come, persistently for years, out of a group of dedicated ignoramuses on the TN message boards, especially the Summitt. But that's not an official source. It's barely even a human source. The university doesn't control those boards, so how can it apologize for what's said there?

Doesn't mean thoughtful folks can't come up with some kind of peacemaking proposal, joint statement, whatever. Diplomats paper over far more intransigent problems.

Personally, I'm fine with just playing in the tournament, if it breaks that way, and don't care whether it does or doesn't. I don't like what TN did, don't respect it, and certainly loath the message board feculence. But grounds for an official TN apology haven't been identified.

Pat Summitt's "innocent" innuendo constituted a cowardly attack on the integrity of both Geno Auriemma and the Uconn women's basketball program. I will forgive and forget almost any insult. I will never forgive or forget an impugning of my integrity. If Tennessee wishes to renew the women's basketball rivalry with Uconn, it should properly repudiate Pat Summitt's vile "innuendo."

 

[HoopsFan21]

You missed the point of the post to which you responded. The media never lets it die. And every time another article like that insinuation-filled piece that Maria C. wrote appears it always refers to vague but sinister allegations that the sainted Ms. Summitt leveled at UConn. There is a small group of wcbb writers, several of whom write for ESPN, that have made the sanctifying of the career of Pat a life's work and in every article they write concerning Geno/Pat they always stop at the ESPN tour and never go to where she publicly accuses Geno and UConn of being cheats. I've never read one word from any of them about whether it was an appropriate thing to do or if she should either support her statement with evidence or if she can't, be reprimanded for what would be an obvious lack of professional ethics.

This has nothing to do with Tenn cancelling the series. The "cheating" accusation came well after that. And it's that public comment that the media has let hang, twisting in the air, for all these years. And as long as it hangs there Geno is guilty in the eyes of everyone wearing orange glasses.

Sainted Ms. Summitt! Good one! Of course, that's really what they think of her in Tennessee.
Summitt committed more NCAA violations than Geno. Summitt didn't exactly recruit on the up and up while recruiting back in the early days of her career, enough so that the NCAA had to create new rules just to stop it when the sport was still in its infancy.
But, yeah, Geno's the cheater.

 

[AnotherVolFan]

REGARDLESS of what anyone has to say about Pat.....in the eyes of a lot a lot a lot of people across the country, Pat will always be known as the "class" of Women's College Basketball. This is without my orange colored glasses on and I had red koolaid today, not orange.

I'm not trying to stir any pot. Let me make that clear. Since I've been a "member" of the Boneyard I've seen a lot of stuff said about Pat that I didn't think people actually thought. Its different and interesting to read other people's opinion on who many across the country regard as a classy lady, even with all those violations she incurred over such a long career.

I'm really just ready for November already!!!

 

[AnotherVolFan]

It's good to be percipient.

Is It???

 

[DaddyChoc]

was the game mostly televised on CBS... not ESPN?

 

[DaddyChoc]

With Diamond in Knoxville, the odds are certainly greater that Uconn and Tenn. will bump heads in the tournament. I look forward to it.

this should have happened long before Diamond showed up... but the LV kept failing to show up and got knocked off by some mid-major

 

[AnotherVolFan]

this should have happened long before Diamond showed up... but the LV kept failing to show up and got knocked off by some mid-major

True! True....even though they weren't "mid majors" per se.

 

[DaddyChoc]

True! True....even though they weren't "mid majors" per se.

to UConn's standards they were

seriously, Tennessee was on a collision course to run into UConn numerous times but crashed earlier than they were suppose to. UConn did the same thing in 07-08 tho (I think)

 

[Tonyc]

I spend a lot of time in Tenn. EVERYONE I've met there are decent, mostly honest, caring, forgiving and proud people. Most do not realize that the situation with Maya was blown out of proportion by a Dementia condition of Pat Summit, whose staff that always accepted Pats position on all subjects went along. Knowing this I believe most, if they knew, would offer some level of sorrow for what happened. I am sure no public apology will ever come from Tenn the University or the Sports Dept--they are proud people who never knew defeat.

The 37 page violation had nothing to do with Pats sickness, she wasn't sick at that time. It was started on the Summit by a group who hated the fact that Geno and UConn were bringing Tenn down. What started it was UConn continually beat up on Tenn and with the verbals of Caroline EDD and Maya Tenn fans could see the end. Pat had to go sign what was left after UConn got the top players. Tenn and Pat were furious that EDD and Maya both came to UConn as they thought they would get at least one of them. Furious might be a little light when describing the anger and hate and venom that was pouring out on the Boards at that time. They wanted revenge and that was the beginning of the complying of information to start the 37 page violation. They were taking no prisoners and didn't care who they brought down. It was a disgusting time and a virtual war on the boards between Tenn and UConn fans. UConn fans were rejoicing knowing that we had the upper hand and would dominate WCBB. Tenn fans were grasping for straws and came up with the 37 pages of lies and misrepresentations. The biggest lie was the Diana and Sue accusation and come to find out they were out of the country. That was brought to Pat and Tenn and then they tried to get the SEC behind it and it blew up in their face when the NCAA investigated it and through it out.

If Pat as the Tenn fans say Pat did what was good for the game then she and Tenn would admit they were wrong and apologize because that's the right thing to do. To many people were hurt by this and if Tenn and Pat or Holly in her place don't see its the right thing to do then their false accusations stand and UConn will never play Tenn again unless its in the NCAAs and to not play the game would be the wrong thing to do for the players and the sport but I would expect UConn fans to react accordingly.

Those of you who didn't experience this don't have any idea what UConn administration went through. Pat imo was mislead by people she trusted and those people were the people on the Summit. She believed their lies. Those of you new to the board don't know how low and to what lengths Tenn fans stooped to bring down the entire UConn WCBB nation. An apology imo is not good enough. Nothing could every mend the sick things that were done to try and hurt and destroy UConn.

You know this is in my craw. It makes me sick every time its brought up. What was so good for WCBB Tenn killed and destroyed and it will never come back to life because they Killed it.