Samson Johnson - The Value of Waiting Your Turn. Will the Fab Five Follow the Model? What Say You?

[HuskyWarrior611]

1990-1991 was the first year JC took us to the tournament. 2004-2005 was the first time he took us in four consecutive seasons. We had a very long run of NCAA, NCAA, NCAA, NIT (did it three consecutive four year stretches).

I’m not familiar with the 90s rosters at all so you’d know better than me.

Do you think bringing in a transfer to play over Rip and Caron would’ve been the answer?

 

[HuskyHawk]

I’m not familiar with the 90s rosters at all so you’d know better than me.

Do you think bringing in a transfer to play over Rip and Caron would’ve been the answer?

Those guys are not the examples. Kentan Facey barely played until senior year and was good senior year. Lots of guys have been major contributors without playing a lot as freshmen. Look at Jalen Wilson for Kansas last year. Johnson is almost certainly our starting center next year.

But you keep missing the point. That history no longer matters in this era. Experience beats talent in college basketball.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Those guys are not the examples. Kentan Facey barely played until senior year and was good senior year. Lots of guys have been major contributors without playing a lot as freshmen. Look at Jalen Wilson for Kansas last year. Johnson is almost certainly our starting center next year.

But you keep missing the point. That history no longer matters in this era. Experience beats talent in college basketball.

Kentan averaged Jeff Adrien freshman year numbers on a team that didn’t make the tourney. I wouldn’t consider that good personally. (Ollie was terrible at developing bigs)

I’m still waiting for those examples of guys for us though. I have no idea of other programs. Johnson isn’t a normal situation either.

Also, you know Marquette won the Big East last year with only 3 upperclassmen in their rotation right?

Basketball is basketball. Talent will always win out unless you’re just a team full of freshmen like Kentucky or Duke. And Duke still won their conference tournament.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I’m not familiar with the 90s rosters at all so you’d know better than me.

Do you think bringing in a transfer to play overa Rip and Caron would’ve been the answer?

1 - My response was to your claim that there was only one team that missed the NCAA due to age. The fact was that JC (for various reasons) seemed to end up on a cycle of four year builds.

2 - Aside from the obvious, massive changes in transfer rules, in either of the cases that you mentioned (RIP, Caron), we likely (due to each player's versatility) would have needed three, very high quality transfers in that player's first year here before we would have cut into either's playing time.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Is it too late in this thread to point out Johnson hasn't monetized anything yet from waiting his turn before getting significant minutes?

When someone says "value in waiting" it usually implies there has been a payoff or payout from that wait.

 

[Dogdeacon]

History has shown this is not true. You can not name one time we were disappointed or let down relying on a freshman.

Even the 2021 year we went on a run when Gaffney and Bouknight were inserted into the lineup. Last year Karaban was perfectly fine when we had to rely on him when Samson went down.

No one in this thread has named one person who didn’t play a lot their freshmen year and went on to be a high impact player. And there’s literally only 2 who actually weren’t ready in the time they did get.

That’s a VERY high hit rate. Not sure why something that wasn’t broken in the first place would need to be fixed. Not an indictment on the guys we have currently either to clarify. Just showing how this is not normal to have freshmen struggling like this.

Here’s to them finding their way and making a big impact down the road though.

Also, you don’t know what you’ll get with transfers necessarily either. If I told you at the start of last year that Joey C was going to have a higher impact than Diarra and Alleyne you would’ve said that I was crazy. Remember we brought in Sterling Gibbs Jalen Adams freshman year? Gibbs was horrible. Those guys are not always sure things either.

Are Samson Johnson & Clingan not on this year's team?! Clingan averaged 13mpg last year. Samson averaged 5 minutes his freshman year.
No one didn't play a lot and became high impact?! There are more than a few, lets do less than 15 minutes or less than 5pts chronologically which happens to begin with one fairly high impact player.

CLIFF ROBINSON 15.8mpg, 5.6pts - NBA
John Gwynn (soph-prop48) 9.4mpg, 5.4ppg
Donny Marshall 8.9mpg, 1.9ppg - NBA - great comp, matches Stewart & Ross minutes to date & pts
Travis Knight 11.6mpg, 2.9ppg - NBA
Kirk King 6.7mpg, 1.5pts
Albert Mouring 2.1mpg, 1.1ppg
Rashad Anderson 14mpg, 8.2ppg
Deandre Daniels 12mpg, 3ppg
Amida Brima 16mpg, 4.1ppg
Tyler Polley 13mpg, 2.7ppg
Isaiah Whaley 13.8mpg, 2.6ppg

If we did the above exercise over the ridiculous small sample size of the team's first 7 games the list might be triple the size.

 

[JohnnyJr]

Solo is averaging 6 pts in 24mpg with his shot not falling at all. Are you expecting him to be averaging double figures already? Karaban was under 10ppg last year with the highest minutes on the team, I guess he will be a bust.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Andre is shooting 60% from 3

 

[Fan1978]

Samson Johnson is an example of what used to make college hoops so great. Seeing a player develop through all four years. He waited his turn. Problem is this doesn't happen anymore. It is the exception rather than the rule. That's why it is so refreshing and validates Hurley's "management" of player expectations. (Keeping Johnson may be one of his greatest recruiting moves.) Can we expect the Fab Five to follow suit? So tough in today's portal/NIL world. Ross, Stewart and Singare are't getting a lot of burn in these blow out games. Ball is getting major minutes and Castle is Castle - NBA bound. The body language on the three previosuly mentioned of the Fab Five wasn't great last night. May be nothing but something to watch. They can learn from Johnson and how he worked and patiently waited for his opportunity.

Stewart has been getting real minutes

 

[ctchamps]

There were these guys named Rip Hamilton, Kevin Freeman, and Jake Voskuhl who played at UConn.

There was also this guy Caron Butler and his buddy Taliek Brown who played at UConn.

There was also these guys Jerome Dyson, Hasheem Thabeet, Marcus Johnson, Stanley Robinson, Curtis Kelly, Doug Wiggins.

I don't know why you create these wild arguments. Of course we've had freshmen who contributed greatly under Calhoun and under Hurley and of course most of them got better as sophomores.

He is who he is. The question is why is so important that you (I consider you normally rational and a measured poster) engage him long after you realize he’s arguing for arguments sake.

Is there some trophy in the Boneyard that rewards a debate winner? Do you enjoy these type of encounters? Is there something wired in you that can’t let irrational statements or posters go? Are you so bored in life or have so much extra time that you need to fill it up with ridiculous things?

If the answer to any of these questions is yes than it makes sense to me that you continue in these endeavors.

I have a different approach. I found it’s unnecessary to concern myself with every irrational statement or person if that statement or person has no impact on the world. If nobody engaged him what do you think will happen?

 

[CL82]

You know, Samson didn't "wait his turn." He was injured and unable to play which led to him losing his spot in the rotation.

The so called Fab Five are all healthy. They have to opportunity to win playing time but none (Castle excepted) has done so. Solo is merely a place holder for the injured Castle. It unlikely any will wait their turn if they are healthy and sit for two years.

Which isn't a knock on them. The quality of the players above them allow us the luxury of bringing them along slowly.

 

[CL82]

Tyler Olander

That would be "two-time national champion" Tyler Olander to you.

 

[CL82]

Is it too late in this thread to point out Johnson hasn't monetized anything yet from waiting his turn before getting significant minutes?

When someone says "value in waiting" it usually implies there has been a payoff or payout from that wait.

The value in waiting for Johnson is that he has a very significant role on the defending national champions and is getting increased exposure by virtue of that.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

He is who he is. The question is why is so important that you (I consider you normally rational and a measured poster) engage him long after you realize he’s arguing for arguments sake.

Is there some trophy in the Boneyard that rewards a debate winner? Do you enjoy these type of encounters? Is there something wired in you that can’t let irrational statements or posters go? Are you so bored in life or have so much extra time that you need to fill it up with ridiculous things?

If the answer to any of these questions is yes than it makes sense to me that you continue in these endeavors.

I have a different approach. I found it’s unnecessary to concern myself with every irrational statement or person if that statement or person has no impact on the world. If nobody engaged him what do you think will happen?

There’s literal proof and receipts that show I’m not some irrational poster that doesn’t know what I’m talking about. It’s fine if you say you don’t like the negativity of it at times but to say that it’s irrational wouldn’t be genuine.

The coaches made the exact changes I suggested last year to fix Andre’s issues. Maybe if I make a big enough hoot about Solo they’ll do the same.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

There’s literal proof and receipts that show I’m not some irrational poster that doesn’t know what I’m talking about. It’s fine if you say you don’t like the negativity of it at times but to say that it’s irrational wouldn’t be genuine.

The coaches made the exact changes I suggested last year to fix Andre’s issues. Maybe if I make a big enough hoot about Solo they’ll do the same.

It's not even clear what your point is: transfers are bad? transfers are good? giving freshmen playing time is good, but it's bad if it's not the right kind of playing time? the existence of transfers is inhibiting the development of guys like Ross? if freshman don't play - no matter how ready they are - it's bad for the team? or it's bad for them and they should leave? or it's bad coaching? It's a mystery.

 

[superjohn]

He is who he is. The question is why is so important that you (I consider you normally rational and a measured poster) engage him long after you realize he’s arguing for arguments sake.

Is there some trophy in the Boneyard that rewards a debate winner? Do you enjoy these type of encounters? Is there something wired in you that can’t let irrational statements or posters go? Are you so bored in life or have so much extra time that you need to fill it up with ridiculous things?

If the answer to any of these questions is yes than it makes sense to me that you continue in these endeavors.

I have a different approach. I found it’s unnecessary to concern myself with every irrational statement or person if that statement or person has no impact on the world. If nobody engaged him what do you think will happen?

I promise you, nothing about this place is important to me. UConn men's basketball is important to me though and this is by far the most active message board to discuss UConn men's basketball on the internet. I'm not on social media, so yes this is my boredom outlet/time waster.

 

[BGesus4]

Really a big failure on JC's part not to show more confidence in Darius Smith or Jamaal Trice or Michael Bradley.

I would love to see some of the post receipts from when Hurley wasn’t playing Rahsool Diggins.

 

[Fan1978]

Are Samson Johnson & Clingan not on this year's team?! Clingan averaged 13mpg last year. Samson averaged 5 minutes his freshman year.
No one didn't play a lot and became high impact?! There are more than a few, lets do less than 15 minutes or less than 5pts chronologically which happens to begin with one fairly high impact player.

CLIFF ROBINSON 15.8mpg, 5.6pts - NBA
John Gwynn (soph-prop48) 9.4mpg, 5.4ppg
Donny Marshall 8.9mpg, 1.9ppg - NBA - great comp, matches Stewart & Ross minutes to date & pts
Travis Knight 11.6mpg, 2.9ppg - NBA
Kirk King 6.7mpg, 1.5pts
Albert Mouring 2.1mpg, 1.1ppg
Rashad Anderson 14mpg, 8.2ppg
Deandre Daniels 12mpg, 3ppg
Amida Brima 16mpg, 4.1ppg
Tyler Polley 13mpg, 2.7ppg
Isaiah Whaley 13.8mpg, 2.6ppg

If we did the above exercise over the ridiculous small sample size of the team's first 7 games the list might be triple the size.

Samson barely played his freshman year. He played 5 minutes a game in 13 games. Which means he played 2 minutes game and mostly garbage time. Solo and stewart are both playing real minutes and are part of the rotation. Could certainly change when castle returns.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Exhibit A

No one in this thread has named one person who didn’t play a lot their freshmen year and went on to be a high impact player. And there’s literally only 2 who actually weren’t ready in the time they did get.

Exhibit B
"I’m not some irrational poster that doesn’t know what I’m talking about. It’s fine if you say you don’t like the negativity of it at times but to say that it’s irrational wouldn’t be genuine. "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it rational to deny the existence of Cliff Robinson, Donny Marshall & Travis Knight?

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

"I’m not some irrational poster that doesn’t know what I’m talking about. It’s fine if you say you don’t like the negativity of it at times but to say that it’s irrational wouldn’t be genuine. "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it rational to deny the existence of Cliff Robinson, Donny Marshall & Travis Knight?

Those guys are before my time man so I’m genuinely unaware of how their freshmen years went.

I’m not sure why people were choosing guys like Jamal Trice and Charles Okwandu as their big spade over these names though.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Samson barely played his freshman year. He played 5 minutes a game in 13 games. Which means he played 2 minutes game and mostly garbage time. Solo and stewart are both playing real minutes and are part of the rotation. Could certainly change when castle returns.

With respect to Solo Ball the arguments are just too dumb. Solo is getting valuable PT with Castle out which will enable him to do more with fewer minutes before the month of December is over. It is a total waste of time to debate the evaluations of the small sample-size theater critics.

But I thought the naysayers were evaluating Ross & Stewart as neither earning enough minutes nor contributing enough? For those two players I'd point out in the 1st two games (with Castle) they were at ~10mpg & vs cupcakes/garbage time. Are those 2 games substantially different than Samson Johnson's 13?
Post Castle the sample size is still so small at 5 games and in the two 'real' games vs Indiana & Texas Stewart played 8 & 3 minutes and Ross played 3 & 0. Different than Johnson how?
And I say ALL of this means NOTHING about their futures as its again very small sample size before December of their freshman years.

I defy anyone to show pre-December amazing freshman stats for UConn players breaking into a lineup with 6 returning contributors/upperclassman (Newton, Spencer, Johnson, Diarra, Karaban, Clingan).
And even if this occurred somewhere other than UConn, it wasn't for a team ranked #4 in the country looking to repeat as national champs. Play the freshman more?! In the words of Lt Caffee; "Should we or should we not follow the advice of the galactically stupid?"

 

[Waquoit]

I would love to see some of the post receipts from when Hurley wasn’t playing Rahsool Diggins.

Not in writing but I had a guy tell me back then that Rashool was proof that Hurley sucks. "Either he can't identify talent or he can't develop it. Which one?" he bellowed.

 

[runner11]

I’m not panicking. Guys will be fine once they have bigger and defined roles just like Hawkins.

The tone of this thread is that this is common though for guys to not contribute much their freshman year. And that just couldn’t be further from the truth.

Man, you would really benefit by going to 247, look up some of the recruits names who are ranked near our guys and googling their stats.
You are coming across as a dude who just started following hoops and only follows UConn

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Man, you would really benefit by going to 247, look up some of the recruits names who are ranked near our guys and googling their stats.
You are coming across as a dude who just started following hoops and only follows UConn

You would be correct in that assessment that I only follow UConn college hoops. I pay attention to no one else but us and UNC (because I have UNC friends I like to talk junk to about how their talent underachieves.)

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

That would be "two-time national champion" Tyler Olander to you.

So long as Jim Boeheim refers to him that way, I'm not going to sweat somebody in this forum making either a mistake or a joke or n the matter.