OT: Still more NCAA hypocrisy.

[intlzncster]

I didn't say I like it. What I believe is that we no longer live in the era of Knute Rockne or Red Grange, when an athletic scholarship was a great tradeoff for a kid playing ball to get a free education. Times have changed very dramatically and it is silly to cling to the good old days.

We would all be better served if the NCAA sought some accommodation with the athletes instead of digging their heels in to fight what will most inevitably be a losing battle.

Look at it this way. Have the Olympics suffered by permitting some professionals to compete? Or were we better off sending our USA amateurs to go up against the bogus amateurs of Eastern bloc Communist countries? Think about it.

I honestly would be happy if this killed the NCAA. It is an outdated, useless bureaucratic organization which doesn't function to serve the needs of the athletes. I think its better to remove the middle man and have the schools set up their own body with their own rules. It just makes more sense.

 

[Kibitzer]

Back for a moment to Manziel (see the OP).

Jay Bilas has exposed the naked hypocrisy of the NCAA, using Manziel as one example (of several). Until recently (site reportedly taken down), if you typed NCAASHOP, then accessed "Manziel," you would see a pop-up of four garments, each with "Texas A&M" and the number "2" on the front. Two were t-shirts (one male, one female) @ $21.95 each. The other two were "replica football jerseys" priced at $54.95 female and $64.95 male. None of the proceeds from the sale of these items were earmarked for Manziel, since he is an amateur athlete. He is also subject to being declared ineligible to play football because he allegedly got paid for signing autographs on memorabilia in Miami. I call it hypocrisy.

 

[Huskyfan23]

I thought this was a UNC comparison thread. The NCAA is going to "hammer" Johnny Football and maybe A&M if they facilitated in any way.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

NCAA is going to do nothing because it has ZERO PROOF. The memorabilia agent that Manziel signed for has already denied paying him{I am pretty sure he did in fact pay him but I am also pretty sure Manziel was smart enough to ask for cash} and cash can't be traced. Manziel obviously has also denied accepting any money so basically all the NCAA has is an investigation basedon rumors and hearsay.

 

[intlzncster]

NCAA is going to do nothing because it has ZERO PROOF. The memorabilia agent that Manziel signed for has already denied paying him{I am pretty sure he did in fact pay him but I am also pretty sure Manziel was smart enough to ask for cash} and cash can't be traced. Manziel obviously has also denied accepting any money so basically all the NCAA has is an investigation basedon rumors and hearsay.

I don't know why Manziel would have bothered with the money. His parents are stinkingly wealthy, and he reportedly has not-so-limited access to funds.

 

[UcMiami]

I honestly would be happy if this killed the NCAA. It is an outdated, useless bureaucratic organization which doesn't function to serve the needs of the athletes. I think its better to remove the middle man and have the schools set up their own body with their own rules. It just makes more sense.

I thought that was what the NCAA was - an association formed by the universities to regularize and control intercollegiate competition. And I think ANYTHING the universities replace it with will be worse - sort of like the whole reorganization of conferences and the BCS system.
And the big losers in anything that does happen will be the student athletes in all the non-glamor sports, including women's basketball. Everybody looks at the obscene money paid for college football, and the slightly less obscene money going to men's basketball, and the few women's basketball programs that make money or break even and want to get some of that money for themselves - and the other sports are going to be thrown under the bus.
Probably the best result would be to create a semi pro football division of college football that includes the top end of the program out there - colleges can chose to join or not regardless of current conference. And let the rest of the programs continue the way they are. Hopefully after a few years, those programs will break away from their colleges completely and create a real minor league football league with no pretension of actually trying to educate their players. Then players can decide like they do in baseball whether they want to struggle through turning pro out of college vs. remaining 'amateur' and getting an education before turning pro.
And by the way - people think running a football league is a huge money making proposition, forgetting that it costs a ton of money to create a team, find facilities, pay players and staff, rent arenas, and market the team. The college football teams have that all built into the equation already including a captive fan base. And Maryland is a prime example of how an athletic department can completely mess it up (and Rutgers is trying to go down the same route.)

 

[Kibitzer]

One example of the volume of money generated by big-time college football is the current expansion of the football stadium for Texas A&M (to 102,500 seating capacity by 2015). I just read that there will be 144 suites and that all but a few have already been sold to donors who pledge something like $80,000 to $100,000 annually! This information is available online; I cannot verify it.

 

[Alydar]

Jay Bilas' tweets over the past couple of hours . . .

https://twitter.com/JayBilas[/quote]
.

.
The Reggie Bush autographed photo for $180.00 says it all.

 

[UConnCat]

Jay Bilas may have just won the O'Bannon case with his embarrassing twitter take-down of the NCAA today.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...as-did-to-the-shopncaasportscom-search-engine

 

[Fightin Choke]

I have always liked Jay Bilas. Along with Cam my two favorite Dukies.

Camrncrz1974 is a Dukie? Wow! Next thing you know I'll find out Tony is a Huskies' fan whose glass is always half (to 3/4's) full. Or that triad guy that posts here every few weeks or so is another Dukie.

 

[intlzncster]

I thought that was what the NCAA was - an association formed by the universities to regularize and control intercollegiate competition. And I think ANYTHING the universities replace it with will be worse - sort of like the whole reorganization of conferences and the BCS system.
And the big losers in anything that does happen will be the student athletes in all the non-glamor sports, including women's basketball. Everybody looks at the obscene money paid for college football, and the slightly less obscene money going to men's basketball, and the few women's basketball programs that make money or break even and want to get some of that money for themselves - and the other sports are going to be thrown under the bus.
Probably the best result would be to create a semi pro football division of college football that includes the top end of the program out there - colleges can chose to join or not regardless of current conference. And let the rest of the programs continue the way they are. Hopefully after a few years, those programs will break away from their colleges completely and create a real minor league football league with no pretension of actually trying to educate their players.

Maybe originally, but not any longer. Schools are afraid to even have a conversation (that is not top secret) about changing the NCAA. It is now a bloated bureaucracy that appears to be more concerned about making money than anything else.

The problem though, is that under your system, you'd be removing the money makers, the big players that drive the whole system. Big paydays only go to the big players (and the lesser schools/programs who are lucky enough to play them). Without that, intercollegiate athletics as we know it would die. You could kiss fringe sports, athletic departments, title nine etc goodbye, unless all the athletes decided to pay to play. I just don't see how this idea is feasible. I suppose you could try to go back to the 50s, but I just don't see it.

Also, do you realistically think the 'semi pro' programs would be allowed to leave their universities? No way. Alums, administrators, and even TV guys would kill to stop it. The most important thing about the University of Alabama is the football team. Ditto Arkansas, Texas, Florida, Miami etc.... The brand and all that.

Oh and if you had that semi pro system for football, you'd have to do the same thing for basketball. Way too much cash involved there.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Wonder where the money goes.... oh, right, football and men's basketball coaches salaries, overblown stadiums and locker rooms and training facilities.

No one has yet to create a realistic structure where what college football and men's basketball is -- a farm system for players -- can be replaced and STILL pay the top players -- and then, the top of the top players, 'cause who wants to play the 68th scholarship player anything?

I've suggested it before, and here's an elaboration - create semi-pro business "in residence" at universities. Those businesses buy in to a tiered league. You win, you go up, you lose, you go down.

You have to pay an annual membership to join the league.

Players must audition. They get hired - and can choose which compensation package they want.

Players DO NOT have to got to college. They CAN work outside of the business, but will be bound by the rules of any other proprietary business. They WILL pay taxes on their salaries. If they have to pay rent, car, food, etc. will depend on the contract they are offered.

The businesses must rent space, raise all their operating costs, pay taxes etc.

What else needs to happen?

 

[Kibitzer]

May we say that football has distorted the mission of many institutions of higher learning?

The renovation of Kyle Stadium (Texas A&M) will cost $450 million. Among the things it will accomplish:

-add 20,00 seats and thus become...​

-the biggest stadium in the SEC (500 more seats than Tennessee) and in the state of Texas (passing Texas U.) and...​

-become noisier and thus a more hostile environment for visiting teams.​

I say BFD.

What that expenditure of $450 million will NOT accomplish:

-purchase a single book for the library.​

-hire a single professor.​

-launch or finance a medical research project.​

-grant a single scholarship to a deserving/needy kid.​

-bring in a guest speaker, whether it be Ann Coulter or Rachel Maddow.​

-buy a computer or laptop.​

-improve campus life -- or safety.​

-and so on.​

​

Perhaps I have become excessively jaded as I cling to some notion that there is a place for both intercollegiate and inramural athletics in our colleges. I don't think the fellows running the NCAA have the solution. Or even a clue.

 

[UcMiami]

Also, do you realistically think the 'semi pro' programs would be allowed to leave their universities? No way. Alums, administrators, and even TV guys would kill to stop it. The most important thing about the University of Alabama is the football team. Ditto Arkansas, Texas, Florida, Miami etc.... The brand and all that.

Oh and if you had that semi pro system for football, you'd have to do the same thing for basketball. Way too much cash involved there.

They way they do this and I have seen it happen (not in sports but in other areas) is the organizational folks go to the parent company and say 'Listen we really need to incorporate this so that we can get out there on our own to raise money and lessen the financial burden on you' and then a few years later they turn around and say ... 'oh, another city or institution, or entity has offered us a lot more financial support than you have, and either you pay up, or seeing as we are a separately incorporated entity we are on the next train out of here.'

I actually think the structure of some of the football bowl games may have followed that model - they started out as an invitational post season game owned by a school in their stadium and then were incorporated into a separate entity (may be off base here.)

I don't think this will happen - but if it did, interestingly I think you would find a fair amount of attention still paid (and money made) by the non-semi pro teams. I also think it would be interesting to see how the sports donations are handled - the basketball practice facility has a $30M price tag coming from donors getting tax breaks - not sure how long it would take the men's and women's teams to earn that money without the donations?
And while some stadiums are money makers for schools, not so for others like at Rutgers. And didn't Uconn actually lose money on their one BCS bowl appearance because they didn't have enough fan support and had to pay for all the unsold tickets in their allotment?

 

[Icebear]

I'm shocked to find out the Texas A&M is only going to 102,500 seats. I thought they were going to 108,000. Shocked I tell you. I thought they were committed to big time football.

 

[grizz36]

Camrncrz1974 is a Dukie? Wow! Next thing you know I'll find out Tony is a Huskies' fan whose glass is always half (to 3/4's) full. Or that triad guy that posts here every few weeks or so is another Dukie.

Damn! They've been outed. What restaurant did you find Cam and Triad at, by the way?

 

[Kibitzer]

I thought that was what the NCAA was - an association formed by the universities to regularize and control intercollegiate competition.

Not so. According to the NCAA's own web site: "The NCAA was founded in 1906 to protect young people from the dangerous and exploitive practices of the time." It was formed in response to public outcry about 18 deaths on football fields in 1905. Early organizers were supportive of student-athletes of that time to earn money by playing "summer ball," presumably a form of semi-pro baseball played all over America.

Remember the movie, "Hoosiers"? There was a sign (local barber shop) that read, "Friday night win, free Saturday trim." No doubt the NCAA would consider that a form of compensation, er, an "impermissible benefit," in their jargon.

Some on this thread seem to think that the O'Bannon lawsuit is about student-athletes getting paid for playing. I don't see it that way. The thrust appears to be seeking compensation (or the opportunity to earn compensation -- e.g., autographs) for the use of their names, images, or likenesses. As matters now stand (see Jay Bilas), the schools and the NCAA get all the dough, the jocks nothing.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I was thinking about this last night - because many of the scenarios presented will, I am convinced, be the end of college athletics, except for football and men's basketball. No more funding for the sports I like.

There are probably around 5,000 BCS football players and north of 3,000 D1 men's basketball players. What percentage are going to be drafted? What percentage have marketable images, autographs, etc.

Looks like a set-up for the rich to get richer.

 

[Kibitzer]

I have stated throughout this thread that the O'Bannon case could have an even greater impact on college sports than the Curt Flood case has had on professional sports.

The rich are already getting richer. The NCAA sold the TV rights for the men's basketball tournament alone for $702 million. I cited the cost of renovation of Kyle Stadium (Texas A&M) at $450 million. The Big Ten Network. Notre Dame football. ESPN, ESPNU, ESPN3. I could go on and on.

The big BIG money is in football and men's basketball. How will those cash cows be affected negatively if some players get paid for use of their names, images, or likenesses? Or if they sell some autographs? Not at all, except they lose their bogus amateur status -- and so what!

College sports will not die (Thanks, Title IX!), but the NCAA will have to change (unlikely) or die (likely IMO).

 

[JRRRJ]

I was thinking about this last night - because many of the scenarios presented will, I am convinced, be the end of college athletics, except for football and men's basketball. No more funding for the sports I like.

There are probably around 5,000 BCS football players and north of 3,000 D1 men's basketball players. What percentage are going to be drafted? What percentage have marketable images, autographs, etc.

Looks like a set-up for the rich to get richer.

It would certainly kill college athletics as it now stands. But millions of kids would still be avid athletes. And, just as ASU did with their tennis program, there'd be club teams, with regional contests. Without the pressure of winning to support their coaches' salaries, pay the AD's bureaucracy or build a $450mm playing field.

 

[UcMiami]

It would certainly kill college athletics as it now stands. But millions of kids would still be avid athletes. And, just as ASU did with their tennis program, there'd be club teams, with regional contests. Without the pressure of winning to support their coaches' salaries, pay the AD's bureaucracy or build a $450mm playing field.

Or pay trainers, and top notch medical consultants. Intramural and club teams are great for students that want to continue playing their sports recreationally, but does not provide the kind of environment that develops world class talent.

 

[JRRRJ]

Or pay trainers, and top notch medical consultants. Intramural and club teams are great for students that want to continue playing their sports recreationally, but does not provide the kind of environment that develops world class talent.

And why is developing world-class talent so important that it can be allowed to distort our educational institutions and divert much of their resources from education?

That's a fan's POV.

And university club teams are well above the recreational level. Membership is quite competitive.

 

[Kibitzer]

Today'ss news item on ESPN online: "NCAA shutting down sales site."

Lead statement: "NCAA president Mark Emmert on Thursday said college sports' governing body will stop selling institutional jerseys and other team-related memorabilia on its website, calling the practice a 'mistake' and admitting others might view it hypocritical." [emphasis added.]

Thanks, Jay Bilas.

I invite your attention to the OP.

 

[Icebear]

Way to go, Jay!!!

 

[Geno-ista]

May we say that football has distorted the mission of many institutions of higher learning?

The renovation of Kyle Stadium (Texas A&M) will cost $450 million. Among the things it will accomplish:

-add 20,00 seats and thus become...​

-the biggest stadium in the SEC (500 more seats than Tennessee) and in the state of Texas (passing Texas U.) and...​

-become noisier and thus a more hostile environment for visiting teams.​

I say BFD.

What that expenditure of $450 million will NOT accomplish:

-purchase a single book for the library.​

-hire a single professor.​

-launch or finance a medical research project.​

-grant a single scholarship to a deserving/needy kid.​

-bring in a guest speaker, whether it be Ann Coulter or Rachel Maddow.​

-buy a computer or laptop.​

-improve campus life -- or safety.​

-and so on.​

​

Perhaps I have become excessively jaded as I cling to some notion that there is a place for both intercollegiate and inramural athletics in our colleges. I don't think the fellows running the NCAA have the solution. Or even a clue.

I was just on the A & M campus 2 weeks ago and had tour of stadium and new plans for expansion. My new son in laws alma mata. The rich military tradition is absolutely awesome. And inside their new immense and beautiful student union - no hats are allowed to be worn in honor of the military grads that have fallen in battle! You couldn't enforce that rule in 99% of the college campuses- especially up north! A & M has become my 2nd team!!! Gary Blair is also a treasure!!

 

[Kibitzer]

And inside their new immense and beautiful student union - no hats are allowed to be worn in honor of the military grads that have fallen in battle! You couldn't enforce that rule in 99% of the college campuses- especially up north!

Texas is one of many southern states that cling to honoring the Confederacy. They have Confederate Heroes Day on January 19 but some communities observe the more traditional Confederate Memorial Day on April 26.

Many southern states commemorate the birthday of Robert E. Lee in January or Jefferson Davis on June 3.

Nobody up here in the north has any reason to honor the Confederate States of America or its leaders. Our patriotic observances are more sharply focused and every bit as heartfelt as what those folks down south do.