OT: Still more NCAA hypocrisy.

[Kibitzer]

Johnny Manziel (Texas A&M Heisman winner) is reportedly being investigated by the NCAA for making (I hate to say "earning," but that is beside the point) a few thousand bucks by signing autographs recently.

Now, this young man has become infamous for having a PR touch every bit as clumsy as that of other public figures in the news like Alex Rodriguez or Anthony Weiner. So it's easy to pile on.

But let's back up a minute and look at this again.

Manziel is being investigated by the NCAA! Same NCAA that is the target of a lawsuit (Google "NCAA O'Bannon lawsuit" for details) brought by former (and now a few current) NCAA players who assert that this same holy NCAA made billions (yes, billions) of dollars while using their names and images on products without asking their permission and without sharing one dime of the vast proceeds.

I am not trying to make the case that Manziel is a likeable guy. But I contend that the NCAA has a helluva level of chutzpah to go after him for picking up a few bucks off the field while defending its practice of raking in billions by using the names of players like him on a vast array of products.

The word is that the NCAA is considering declaring Manziel ineligible for further NCAA competition. Gee, does that mean they will forgo putting him on some video game?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Apples to Oranges.

There are rules, and if Manziel broke them, that would be an issue.

The issue of whether or not the athletes are exploited by the NCAA is a separate issue. I don't have an answer for this one - I'm not truly convinced that athletes deserve compensation for that sort of thing because you are now creating an un-level playing field. That athletes deserve additional compensation than there scholly and fringe benefits they get now, I do agree with.

 

[Kibitzer]

I'm not truly convinced that athletes deserve compensation for that sort of thing because you are now creating an un-level playing field.

You seem to imply that the current playing field is level.

One loud voice who shares this sentiment is Christine Plonsky, Women's AD at Texas. She has publicly characterized athletic scholarships as "entitlements," or like service in the Army. She makes $359K a year and her male counterpart gets $1M+; total, about $1.8 million to supervise a budget of $103.8 million that yielded $25 million in profit last year. (And the athletes are forbidden from making any money related to their athletic skill.)

That's enough dough to provide transportation, food, lodging and entertainment for recruits and their families (remember, 85 football schollies a year) with plenty to spare. But if an ambitious and enterprising sports agent were to take a student-athlete out on his yacht to give him a sales pitch, they would both be in deep doo-doo with the NCAA.

"Level" (as in playing field) is defined by the NCAA, and it's far more than a half-bubble off plumb.

 

[jdubct]

Johnny Manziel (Texas A&M Heisman winner) is reportedly being investigated by the NCAA for making (I hate to say "earning," but that is beside the point) a few thousand bucks by signing autographs recently.

Now, this young man has become infamous for having a PR touch every bit as clumsy as that of other public figures in the news like Alex Rodriguez or Anthony Weiner. So it's easy to pile on.

But let's back up a minute and look at this again.

Manziel is being investigated by the NCAA! Same NCAA that is the target of a lawsuit (Google "NCAA O'Bannon lawsuit" for details) brought by former (and now a few current) NCAA players who assert that this same holy NCAA made billions (yes, billions) of dollars while using their names and images on products without asking their permission and without sharing one dime of the vast proceeds.

I am not trying to make the case that Manziel is a likeable guy. But I contend that the NCAA has a helluva level of chutzpah to go after him for picking up a few bucks off the field while defending its practice of raking in billions by using the names of players like him on a vast array of products.

The word is that the NCAA is considering declaring Manziel ineligible for further NCAA competition. Gee, does that mean they will forgo putting him on some video game?

Agree. How much did Manziel get for autographs? C'mon. TAM is increasing the capacity of its football stadium to 108,000!

 

[SubbaBub]

I thought this was a UNC comparison thread. The NCAA is going to "hammer" Johnny Football and maybe A&M if they facilitated in any way.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

You seem to imply that the current playing field is level.

"Level" (as in playing field) is defined by the NCAA, and it's far more than a half-bubble off plumb.

My particular reference to level was in regard to paying athletes to use their image, etc. In this case, star athletes in various sports will be receiving different compensation based on their fame / popularity / etc. than other athletes. That is just pro sports, and while college sports is darn close to it, it isn't there yet. Personally, I would prefer if use of such images, etc. were banned even for the NCAA to use, but we know that isn't happening.

To some point, no, I don't believe that athletes need to "share" in the money they make their university - they have a simple choice. They can go pro, or they can accept their free education as a stipend, or they can quit playing. Now, I actually would like to see some sort of financial stipend for athletes, to make their lives easier (anyone who thinks being a college athlete is "easy" is nuts). But remember, for most athletic departments that are not completely self funded - the more you give the athlete the more funds you take from the academic side (and yes, that's an over-simplification, but valid).

To me this has nothing to do with an athlete who broke the rules. Selective enforcement and all that is related, but not the fact that he broke the rules.

 

[Alydar]

Cheating on grades and creating no-show classes = slap on wrist
An athlete making a few dollars for himself instead of the NCAA = death penalty
.
The NCAA's commitment to the "student athlete" was never clearer.

 

[Kibitzer]

I am not arguing whether or not "Johnny Football" broke any (NCAA) rules. My OP was focused on the hypocrisy of the NCAA, denying a player the opportunity to make a few bucks off the playing field, while using athletes like him to rake in billions of dollars without giving them a dime.

Thus the lawsuit by O'Bannon (and others, including Bill Russell) who feel that they got ripped off. Should this lawsuit become certified as a class action law suit, it could affect college sports even more than the Curt Flood case has affected professional sports. We will all stay tuned.

 

[Icebear]

The worst example of the hypocrisy was the NCAA's handling of Jeremy Bloom who was a legitimate star on the snow and completely unrelated to football but the NCAA harassed and block him from being able to exercise his fiscal value as a winter sports athlete while blocking him from playing football when they did not treat others in a similar manner when they crossed to other sports.

 

[intlzncster]

Johnny Manziel (Texas A&M Heisman winner) is reportedly being investigated by the NCAA for making (I hate to say "earning," but that is beside the point) a few thousand bucks by signing autographs recently.

Now, this young man has become infamous for having a PR touch every bit as clumsy as that of other public figures in the news like Alex Rodriguez or Anthony Weiner. So it's easy to pile on.


I am not trying to make the case that Manziel is a likeable guy. But I contend that the NCAA has a helluva level of chutzpah to go after him for picking up a few bucks off the field while defending its practice of raking in billions by using the names of players like him on a vast array of products.

Actually, he's apparently extraordinarily likeable. Perhaps too much. Not handling his celebrity too well, but what are you going to do when you blow up a 19/20 year old kid?

 

[uconnfan68]

The worst example of the hypocrisy was the NCAA's handling of Jeremy Bloom who was a legitimate star on the snow and completely unrelated to football but the NCAA harassed and block him from being able to exercise his fiscal value as a winter sports athlete while blocking him from playing football when they did not treat others in a similar manner when they crossed to other sports.

Huh? I vaguely remember this... but why do they let baseball players sign contracts then play other sports in college (see our own Scott Burrell).

 

[ThisJustIn]

Until someone can come up with a system that "fairly" rewards the male athletes that participate in basketball and football with programs in, say, the top 25? this is a moot point.

It's a major flaw to talk about compensation and not be clear that it's about compensating a small % of the athletes. If the athletes think they can come up with a paid farm system that gives them all the benefits a college career gives 'em, go for it.

As for Johnny football? No sympathy. Even the end of the bench player on a DIII team knows that what he is ALLEGED to do is against the rules. Does anyone think he ALLEGEDLY did it because he wants to make a test case for all the current male football and basketball athletes in top 25 programs? Ha.

Yaddaah yaddaah yaddaah he's young and handling things poorly, poor baby. Other 19/20yr olds aren't given that break. Seems he's been on a slow drive into a stone wall since he let the world tell him he was something important. If he's not careful, Ryan Leaf will have a replacement...

 

[UcMiami]

I wonder how a baseball player in the minor leagues getting paid peanuts to pursue his dream of major league fame and fortune would feel about an offer of free tuition ($50,000K) plus room and board ($$$?) would feel about that kind of compensation. To a large extent that is what men's college football and basketball have become - the minor leagues. I imagine most would jump at it and accept whatever restrictions you placed on them.
Yes there is huge money being made off of college sports and most of it gets pumped right back into the athletic teams and facilities for all the sports that lose money hand over fist.

As for the coaches and administrators getting paid big bucks ... some of it is over the top like every other area of american life, but they have all put in the time at much smaller compensation to get where they are. They are not 18-21 year olds learning their trade, but seasoned professionals that have risen through hard work and luck and talent. Geno didn't get paid a living wage in his first coaching gig, and he wasn't exactly raking it in for the first 15 years. But he has stuck at it and now is at the top of his profession and getting paid like it.

I will admit to some curiosity as to what the NCAA budget looks like and where all their money goes. I suspect there is some serious fat in there as with most organizations, but they also sponsor a large number of events for a wide array of non-profitable sports including paying expenses for the teams participating.

As for the poor exploited college athletes - cry me an ocean! Exploited are the workers in sweat shops, the victims of human trafficking, slave labor in various parts of the world, and I'll even throw in restaurant workers. But kids getting a free education, job training, and room and board - choose another word. And if they don't like the contract they signed they can drop out and pursue their profession on their own. It is a free country and I am sure they can get a try-out with some sports franchise - of course they will not have been marketed and showcased and trained by an NCAA institution so they may not actual get the job, but I hear Walmart is hiring.

 

[Icebear]

1.3 million goes to Emmert.

 

[Icebear]

Huh? I vaguely remember this... but why do they let baseball players sign contracts then play other sports in college (see our own Scott Burrell).

"Huh?" Is exactly the correct response to what that NCAA did to Bloom. Bloom is having the last laugh, however. LINK

 

[meyers7]

"Huh?" Is exactly the correct response to what that NCAA did to Bloom. Bloom is having the last laugh, however. LINK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bloom

He seems to have done pretty well for himself.

 

[bruinbball]

I wonder how a baseball player in the minor leagues getting paid peanuts to pursue his dream of major league fame and fortune would feel about an offer of free tuition ($50,000K) plus room and board ( $?) would feel about that kind of compensation. To a large extent that is what men's college football and basketball have become - the minor leagues. I imagine most would jump at it and accept whatever restrictions you placed on them.
Yes there is huge money being made off of college sports and most of it gets pumped right back into the athletic teams and facilities for all the sports that lose money hand over fist.

As for the coaches and administrators getting paid big bucks ... some of it is over the top like every other area of american life, but they have all put in the time at much smaller compensation to get where they are. They are not 18-21 year olds learning their trade, but seasoned professionals that have risen through hard work and luck and talent. Geno didn't get paid a living wage in his first coaching gig, and he wasn't exactly raking it in for the first 15 years. But he has stuck at it and now is at the top of his profession and getting paid like it.

I will admit to some curiosity as to what the NCAA budget looks like and where all their money goes. I suspect there is some serious fat in there as with most organizations, but they also sponsor a large number of events for a wide array of non-profitable sports including paying expenses for the teams participating.

As for the poor exploited college athletes - cry me an ocean! Exploited are the workers in sweat shops, the victims of human trafficking, slave labor in various parts of the world, and I'll even throw in restaurant workers. But kids getting a free education, job training, and room and board - choose another word. And if they don't like the contract they signed they can drop out and pursue their profession on their own. It is a free country and I am sure they can get a try-out with some sports franchise - of course they will not have been marketed and showcased and trained by an NCAA institution so they may not actual get the job, but I hear Walmart is hiring.

I've seen several turn down those offers to pursue the professional dream. Most recently a kid I coached against was drafted 9th overall and he's doing pretty well for the A's but turned down a full ride to Georgia Tech to make it happen. Another friend was drafted in the 49th round of the draft after our senior year in high school. He chose to play college ball for three years and was draft 45th overall in 99. He ended up having Tommy John surgery and was never the same and never got out of AA.

 

[Kibitzer]

I choose to not get into the discussion about the value of a college athletic scholarship vs. playing minor league baseball. I prefer to focus on the potential effect of the O'Bannon lawsuit. I believe that it could have a greater impact on college sports than the Curt Flood case has had on professional sports. Here are some important (IMO) but largely unnoticed news items:

1. The NCAA has ended its relationship with EA Sports (humongous video game producer). Why? I see it as a way to limit its liability in the O'Bannon lawsuit. Just in case.​

​

2. A vital factor in the O'Bannon case is whether or not it will be heard and treated as a class action suit. If so, the floodgates may burst open. The judge insisted that the plaintiffs include at least one current player (an ominous ruling), so they produced six.​

The NCAA's defense in the O'Bannon case seems, ironically, to be based on the claim that college athletes are amateurs, and that those four year $100,000 scholarships do nothing to alter this status. (Meanwhile, the minor league baseball players playing for peanuts are professionals.)

 

[intlzncster]

I am not trying to make the case that Manziel is a likeable guy. But I contend that the NCAA has a helluva level of chutzpah to go after him for picking up a few bucks off the field while defending its practice of raking in billions by using the names of players like him on a vast array of products.

Thought you might be interested in this article. I really like Wright Thompson's exposes. The Thompson interview at the top is well worth it too.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...rity-derail-texas-aggies-season-espn-magazine

 

[SubbaBub]

I think the correct model allows amateur status for scholarship players, a stipend for FCoA, and ends restrictions on outside income for players provided there is no monetary connection between the school and the third party.

I.e. Nike can deal with Oregon or the player but can't do both without the player losing his status.

Smilin' Sam's used car lot can have #24 do an autograph signing, but can't also be a booster for the school.

EA sports can use players likenesses provided they get a release and use team names and logos through a licensing company, but can't but advertising on campus owned stadium.

Otherwise just go straight to the Univ of Alabama FB Academy, a for-profit subsidiary if the U of A, dedicated to the education (a-huh) and development of elite athletes. And pay them minor league salaries and pay taxes.

 

[Kibitzer]

As this thread has developed and generated lots of interesting input, I have been stimulated to think more about the future of amateurism in college sports (I think it's in serious jeopardy) and less about Johnny Manziel, EA Sports, or well-paid ADs or coaches.

The O'Bannon case could be decisive and I liken it to the Curt Flood case on steroids. Everything hinges upon two things: (1) whether it (O'Bannon) will be judged as a class action suit (likely) and (2) if the NCAA can persuade Judge Wilken that college athletes are indeed amateurs and therefore it is justified that they receive no compensation ($100,000 scholarships don't count) for their fleetness, toughness, stamina or hand-eye coordination on the track, field, court or diamond.

The main thrust of their argument so far is to seize on a portion of a sentence in a 13,000 word SCOTUS ruling in 1984, written for the majority by Justice John Paul Stevens (NCAA vs. Board of Regents of University of Oklahoma): "In order to preserve the character of the 'product,' athletes must not be paid. . . ."

It gets better. With a straight face the NCAA lawyer asserts that the billions of dollars shelled out to the NCAA (TV rights) have nothing to do with the gladiators, because they are merely "peddling access to its facilities." You see, ESPN or CBS might occasionally dispatch a phalanx of camera crews and on-air personalities to, say, the stadium at Ohio State on a Saturday afternoon in November and if by some magic a bunch of jocks take the field. . . .

I believe that the O'Bannon case seriously threatens college sports (and the NCAA) because its claims of amateurism are a sham. I rest my case.

 

[UcMiami]

Kib - you may be right and I think that would be a shame. I sort of miss the amateur Olympics, even with the eastern block 'machines' I prefered seeing college kids competing more than watching the Dream team and other overpaid athletes.

 

[UConnCat]

Jay Bilas' tweets over the past couple of hours . . .

https://twitter.com/JayBilas

 

[Kibitzer]

Kib - you may be right and I think that would be a shame. I sort of miss the amateur Olympics, even with the eastern block 'machines' I prefered seeing college kids competing more than watching the Dream team and other overpaid athletes.

I didn't say I like it. What I believe is that we no longer live in the era of Knute Rockne or Red Grange, when an athletic scholarship was a great tradeoff for a kid playing ball to get a free education. Times have changed very dramatically and it is silly to cling to the good old days.

We would all be better served if the NCAA sought some accommodation with the athletes instead of digging their heels in to fight what will most inevitably be a losing battle.

Look at it this way. Have the Olympics suffered by permitting some professionals to compete? Or were we better off sending our USA amateurs to go up against the bogus amateurs of Eastern bloc Communist countries? Think about it.

 

[Icebear]

I have always liked Jay Bilas. Along with Cam my two favorite Dukies.