OT - Multiple sources reporting investigation of Patriots

[dsturdy5]

Never really understood how this one seemed to escape the wrath that the Pats got for spygate. Maybe it was worse a decade ago.

Me as well. The taping may have had some impact, it may not have. However you can't tell me that circumventing the salary cap didn't help the Bronco's two Super Bowl championship teams.

 

[BlueMAB]

That is not what I said, but whatever. What I said is the cheating/controversy is only brought up IF they win, your saying if they lose no one cares their cheating. That doesn't make any sense. They're either cheating or they're not.

It's possible to cheat 1 game and not another. So your comment that they're either cheating or not is entirely false. Maybe they're not cheating when they lose, and that's why it never comes up. Maybe they cheat all the time, but only get caught occasionally.

You just keep building one silly strawman after another.

I happen to think it only gets brought up when they get caught. Which happens to be when they've won. I don't know why that would cause some incredible confusion or outrage on your part.

 

[BlueMAB]

1. How does using a legal formation go against the spirit of the rule? I supposed the tackle catching a td pass goes against the spirit of the rule. So does the Seahawks' fake field goal? And when the Titans and Lions both used similar formations this past season? How about when Alabama used those formations in the game vs LSU?

Former coaches and scouts, among others, admitted to filming after the pats were caught, which were all before the directive to stop (which included a reminder that this was a long standing rule that wasn't being followed). The Broncos WERE punished for manipulating the salary cap.

Your argument is essentially that if one of your students gets caught cheating, and his defense is "3 other guys cheated too before you told us not to" then you won't punish him. I sincerely hope you don't actually treat your students that way. All you're doing is justifying their behavior by deflecting to the fact other teams admitted to similar behavior in the past. As if that makes it okay.

Okay, the Broncos AND the Pats are cheaters. Happy? (more deflection)

 

[upstater]

They didn't. Belichik was fined half a million for shytz and giggles.

So, you've got nothing.

You seem to be clueless and totally unaware that filming signals was NEVER against the rules in the NFL.

And UConn was banned by the way because the academics there are a joke and the athletes never study.

 

[upstater]

Oh God please don't give Upstater a corrupt organization to passionately defend. Now that Penn State is rolling he's got plenty of time.

And UConn, don't forget UConn. Super corrupt.

 

[BlueMAB]

So, you've got nothing.

You seem to be clueless and totally unaware that filming signals was NEVER against the rules in the NFL.

And UConn was banned by the way because the academics there are a joke and the athletes never study.

And Joe Paterno died protecting a child molester. Oh wait, only one of us is being sarcastic.

You're right, guys get fined $500k for not breaking the rules all the time. Just ask.... um... wait... um... hmmm....

 

[upstater]

And Joe Paterno died protecting a child molester. Oh wait, only one of us is being sarcastic.

You're right, guys get fined $500k for not breaking the rules all the time. Just ask.... um... wait... um... hmmm....

It was BS, it was always BS, just like the APR UConn ban was BS. Syracuse can break every rue and get lovetapped, while UConn gets banned. Why? Optics.

And you can't even answer this simple question: is filming defensive signals illegal in the NFL? Answer that.

 

[dsturdy5]

Your argument is essentially that if one of your students gets caught cheating, and his defense is "3 other guys cheated too before you told us not to" then you won't punish him. I sincerely hope you don't actually treat your students that way. All you're doing is justifying their behavior by deflecting to the fact other teams admitted to similar behavior in the past. As if that makes it okay.

Okay, the Broncos AND the Pats are cheaters. Happy? (more deflection)

I believe I said I would expect equal punishment for all involved in a previous post.

I'm not deflecting anything, I'm wondering why the difference in how the two (and others) are treated.

 

[BlueMAB]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3400028

"clueless"

Belichick acknowledged that he violated NFL rules prohibiting filming opponents signals but insisted there was no intent to hide what he was doing.

"I made a mistake," he said in the interview. "I was wrong. I was wrong."

 

[BlueMAB]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3018338

"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid long-standing rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots."

NFL rules state "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." They also say all video for coaching purposes must be shot from locations "enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."
That was re-emphasized in a memo sent Sept. 6 to NFL head coaches and general managers. In it, Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations, wrote:"Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."


I can't believe someone is really stupid enough to keep claiming that Belichick didn't break any rules.

 

[StoweD210]

The Pats cheat, they may not be the only team cheating, but they continue to be the only team getting caught. And using the fact other teams admitted to cheating as a defense is morally bankrupt. If your kid comes home with an F because he/she got caught cheating are you going to accept the excuse that 3 other kids in the class cheated too? "It's okay, just don't get caught next time." The Pats have a history of breaking the rules, whether or not it impacted the win last night doesn't matter. Nobody is suggesting they forfeit, but they are cheaters. And if you're going to be a fan of the Pats, just admit that they are cheaters and stop trying to rationalize their behavior as if fans of other teams should just accept their cheating.

So, to you, Jim Calhoun is a cheater.

 

[upstater]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3400028

"clueless"

Belichick acknowledged that he violated NFL rules prohibiting filming opponents signals but insisted there was no intent to hide what he was doing.

"I made a mistake," he said in the interview. "I was wrong. I was wrong."

Belichick's quote has nothing to do with the characterization by the writer.

There is no rule against filming signals. There's a rule against filming from the sideline. You can film signals to your hearts content from the room where they are allowed to do gametape. Costas put Goodell on the spot with this question after the penalty as laid down, and Goodell acknowledged it while noting that the Patriots were filming from the sidelines.

You seem totally unaware of the actual rule.

AHA, I just read your last post and now realize that you can't understand what happened. I didn't say the Patriots didn't break a rule. I said they didn't break a rule against filming signals. They broke the rule against filming from the sidelines.

Here's the actual rule: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

Anderson clarified that filming had to come from an enclosed room with a roof overhead.

Belichick maybe is too much of a school marm and he inferred from the rule's syntax that you're not allowed to use the gamefilm during the game. After all, there's no meaning at all to the final clause in the rule if Belichick's interpretation isn't correct.

And John Fox recently confirmed that the rule about using ANY video still exists today. Which is why you see printouts coming down to the sideline by fax (Peyton Manning mostly reads these) but never anything moving.

 

[BlueMAB]

So, to you, Jim Calhoun is a cheater.

Yup. And I'm okay with it, because if you think every team that is competitive at our level isn't doing something against the rules you live in fantasy land.

 

[upstater]

Yup. And I'm okay with it, because if you think every team that is competitive at our level isn't doing something against the rules you live in fantasy land.

Holy cow, what a hypocrite you are. After making the exact opposite argument when it comes to the Patriots, you actually typed that!!!

 

[BlueMAB]

Belichick's quote has nothing to do with the characterization by the writer.

There is no rule against filming signals. There's a rule against filming from the sideline. You can film signals to your hearts content from the room where they are allowed to do gametape. Costas put Goodell on the spot with this question after the penalty as laid down, and Goodell acknowledged it while noting that the Patriots were filming from the sidelines.

You seem totally unaware of the actual rule.

AHA, I just read your last post and now realize that you can't understand what happened. I didn't say the Patriots didn't break a rule. I said they didn't break a rule against filming signals. They broke the rule against filming from the sidelines.

Here's the actual rule: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

Anderson clarified that filming had to come from an enclosed room with a roof overhead.

Belichick maybe is too much of a school marm and he inferred from the rule's syntax that you're not allowed to use the gamefilm during the game. After all, there's no meaning at all to the final clause in the rule if Belichick's interpretation isn't correct.

And John Fox recently confirmed that the rule about using ANY video still exists today. Which is why you see printouts coming down to the sideline by fax (Peyton Manning mostly reads these) but never anything moving.

Despite the quote I posted directly from the Exec. VP of Football Operations that reiterates the rule and completely refutes your claims about what is and isn't legal, you want to argue about which rule they broke? And you're wrong about it anyway? Wow. Just. Wow.

 

[whaler11]

I know your knee jerks so hard into your face that you have no capacity for understanding everythin, but I never defended Penn State on the Sandusky thing. I always said Paterno made a huge error in not going to police. I didn' really care about the penalties on football since that was beside the point and didn't matter to me.

I know you hate the Patriots and love referees.

For someone who didn't defend Penn State or care about the penalties that was a lot of posts about the subject.

 

[BlueMAB]

Holy cow, what a hypocrite you are. After making the exact opposite argument when it comes to the Patriots, you actually typed that!!!

I don't expect someone who's ego surpasses their reading comprehension to get it, but here goes.

The APR ban was BS. But that wasn't cheating.

The Nate Miles thing, that was cheating. And UConn deserved to be punished. I'll call it what it is. Unlike Pats fans. What UConn did wasn't okay, but it's not something that's going to make me stop cheering for the school. They cheated, got caught, and paid a price. It happens.

If Pats fans had the same outlook, this thread would have ended 2 pages ago. Instead they'd rather pretend they weren't cheating just because other teams were too, and argue (incorrectly) about which rules were and weren't violated.

 

[upstater]

Despite the quote I posted directly from the Exec. VP of Football Operations that reiterates the rule and completely refutes your claims about what is and isn't legal, you want to argue about which rule they broke? And you're wrong about it anyway? Wow. Just. Wow.

You do realize that ALL teams are permitted to film the game, right?

No matter what he said AFTER they fined the Patriots or how they justified it, the actual rule is the one I gave you.

AND, to this day, teams are filming during the game.

That's how they have film to breakdown during the week.

AND, furthermore, when teams used both film and other recording devices in the past against the Patriots, the NFL responded, "That's football!" Steve Alic is on record as saying that. In fact, the NFL is perfectly OK with filming from the sidelines by some teams: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3151217

And how does the NFL respond? It didn't care because the Jets received permission. Asked if they granted permission, the Patriots replied that no one granted permission.

And even if they had, they were given permission to break NFL rules?

What's this Jets cameraman doing?

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/49/files/2011/10/Jets-Videotaping.jpg

The NFL's Greg Aiello swept it all under the rug.

 

[upstater]

I don't expect someone who's ego surpasses their reading comprehension to get it, but here goes.

The APR ban was BS. But that wasn't cheating.

The Nate Miles thing, that was cheating. And UConn deserved to be punished. I'll call it what it is. Unlike Pats fans. What UConn did wasn't okay, but it's not something that's going to make me stop cheering for the school. They cheated, got caught, and paid a price. It happens.

If Pats fans had the same outlook, this thread would have ended 2 pages ago. Instead they'd rather pretend they weren't cheating just because other teams were too, and argue (incorrectly) about which rules were and weren't violated.

Oh, I thought you wrote EVERYONE DOES IT. Just like dsturdy wrote. And you called him on it. Laughable.

 

[upstater]

For someone who didn't defend Penn State or care about the penalties that was a lot of posts about the subject.

I like Penn State. Always have. It was something of interest. Let's face it, UConn also had its own scandal sweeping child rape during summer camps under the rug. That doesn't change my appreciation for UConn sports even if I think the administration effed up royally.

 

[whaler11]

I like Penn State. Always have. It was something of interest. Let's face it, UConn also had its own scandal sweeping child rape during summer camps under the rug. That doesn't change my appreciation for UConn sports even if I think the administration effed up royally.

You are the academic. It's good to see you coming to grips with how bad college adminstators are.

 

[upstater]

You are the academic. It's good to see you coming to grips with how bad college adminstators are.

Even worse, the rapists in this case were academics (a UConn music teacher) and a former football coach. So, get all football coaches and academics off campus!!

 

[superjohn]

I would hope your appreciation and views on Penn State football and Joe Paterno have changed drastically once you found out what was happening there.

 

[BlueMAB]

Oh, I thought you wrote EVERYONE DOES IT. Just like dsturdy wrote. And you called him on it. Laughable.

Yeah, I didn't think you'd get it.

Dsturdy is saying it's okay because everyone was doing it, and everyone either should or shouldn't have been punished.

I would agree with him on the latter point, except for the fact that Belichick's arrogance came from breaking the rule just one week after being told not to. That's why he deserved the punishment. If the NFL says "we may have let this slide in the past, but we won't anymore" and you do it anyway, you deserve to get punished. If Calhoun went right back to impermissible benefits and too many phone calls one week after being suspended from those Big East games, I would expect him to be handed down a harsh penalty, and he would deserve it. See Kelvin Sampson.

I didn't say it's okay for Calhoun. There's no hypocrisy. I acknowledge that others are doing it, but I'm not saying that's a valid defense. You have to do that to compete. Everyone does it, but if you get caught, you still deserve to be punished. No, punishment isn't handed out fairly and that sucks. But that's life, it doesn't justify and isn't a defense for your behavior.

 

[whaler11]

Even worse, the rapists in this case were academics (a UConn music teacher) and a former football coach. So, get all football coaches and academics off campus!!

I missed the UConn football coach who was raping children. Can you provide a link?