OT - Multiple sources reporting investigation of Patriots

[upstater]

I would hope your appreciation and views on Penn State football and Joe Paterno have changed drastically once you found out what was happening there.

I root for PSU football still. So do a lot of other people. I still root for UConn too. So do a lot of other people.

 

[upstater]

I missed the UConn football coach who was raping children. Can you provide a link?

Huh? I wrote music teacher. The former football coach was Sandusky. Sorry, it's late. If that wasn't clear. I was just being sarcastic about painting all people with a broad brush. Obviously, there are some awful people out there who happen to be academics, administrators, football coaches.

 

[upstater]

Yeah, I didn't think you'd get it.

Dsturdy is saying it's okay because everyone was doing it, and everyone either should or shouldn't have been punished.

I would agree with him on the latter point, except for the fact that Belichick's arrogance came from breaking the rule just one week after being told not to. That's why he deserved the punishment. If the NFL says "we may have let this slide in the past, but we won't anymore" and you do it anyway, you deserve to get punished. If Calhoun went right back to impermissible benefits and too many phone calls one week after being suspended from those Big East games, I would expect him to be handed down a harsh penalty, and he would deserve it. See Kelvin Sampson.

I didn't say it's okay for Calhoun. There's no hypocrisy. I acknowledge that others are doing it, but I'm not saying that's a valid defense. You have to do that to compete. Everyone does it, but if you get caught, you still deserve to be punished. No, punishment isn't handed out fairly and that sucks. But that's life, it doesn't justify and isn't a defense for your behavior.

Your timeline is all wrong. The memo came out a year before Matt Estrella was stopped by the FBI during the game (no wonder Goodell had to address it, the Feds were involved). The memo came out on September 6, 2006. And AFTER the memo came out, the NFL was alerted to the Jets filing at Foxboro, and they did nothing. That was the same year the Dolphins used a tape to steal Brady' offensive signals at the line (Patriots lost 21-0). The Estrella thing happened in September of 2007. An entire year later.

 

[superjohn]

Root for Penn State football all you want but please don't ever compare Uconn Athletics with anything that took place with that football program, it's offensive.

 

[StoweD210]

Your timeline is all wrong. The memo came out a year before Matt Estrella was stopped by the FBI during the game (no wonder Goodell had to address it, the Feds were involved). The memo came out on September 6, 2006. And AFTER the memo came out, the NFL was alerted to the Jets filing at Foxboro, and they did nothing. That was the same year the Dolphins used a tape to steal Brady' offensive signals at the line (Patriots lost 21-0). The Estrella thing happened in September of 2007. An entire year later.

You are correct about the memo coming out in 2006, but the FBI was never involved. Some member of NFL or Jets security present that day may have been a former FBI agent, but that was never a federal investigation.

 

[jcaprio90]

Didn't the NFL destroy at least most of the spygate tapes? I'm 95 percent sure they did and the public never saw them. Of course Pat fans will say that's because nothing was on them. Where normal people would say, the NFL was protecting the shield and sweeping under the rug just how bad it was. We'll never know, but now what I do know is you Pat fans will cry about this even more then Brady cries for a flag when someone breathes on him.

 

[RedSoloCup]

Buy futures in distillery companies...

It's gonna be a looooooooong offseason.

{pours glass with ice, drinks rest from bottle}

 

[upstater]

Root for Penn State football all you want but please don't ever compare Uconn Athletics with anything that took place with that football program, it's offensive.

OK, I'll compare the University of Connecticut with what took place in that program. A direct one to one comparison.

 

[upstater]

You are correct about the memo coming out in 2006, but the FBI was never involved. Some member of NFL or Jets security present that day may have been a former FBI agent, but that was never a federal investigation.

I know it wasn't an FBI investigation. But there were FBI officials summoned. I assume on duty:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-thegameface091407

Suspected of having filmed hand signals from Jets' coaches while standing on that team's sideline, Estrella was interrogated in the bowels of the stadium by Jets and NFL security officials. New Jersey state troopers and FBI agents were also summoned. Mike Tannenbaum, the Jets' general manager, left his seat during the second half and entered the fray, sternly lecturing Estrella about his apparent violation of NFL rules.

 

[upstater]

Didn't the NFL destroy at least most of the spygate tapes? I'm 95 percent sure they did and the public never saw them. Of course Pat fans will say that's because nothing was on them. Where normal people would say, the NFL was protecting the shield and sweeping under the rug just how bad it was. We'll never know, but now what I do know is you Pat fans will cry about this even more then Brady cries for a flag when someone breathes on him.

We saw the tapes. They were broadcast on FOX. You act as though this was a mystery. It's not. They were filming signals.

Every QB wants a flag and goes to officials. Every single one. Brady just gets fewer calls than most.

 

[StoweD210]

I know it wasn't an FBI investigation. But there were FBI officials summoned. I assume on duty:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-thegameface091407

Thanks. I hadn't been aware of that detail before. It adds another layer of ridiculousness to the situation.

"Hello, this is Mike Tannebaum, GM of the Jets and Mike Francesa's friend. There's a guy here videotaping our defensive signals. Yes, the same ones visible to the people in the stands. Yes, the same ones that get shown on TV. Listen, I don't care what else is going on, you send everyone you have now! I mean everyone!"

 

[upstater]

Thanks. I hadn't been aware of that detail before. It adds another layer of ridiculousness to the situation.

"Hello, this is Mike Tannebaum, GM of the Jets and Mike Francesa's friend. There's a guy here videotaping our defensive signals. Yes, the same ones visible to the people in the stands. Yes, the same ones that get shown on TV. Listen, I don't care what else is going on, you send everyone you have now! I mean everyone!"

I think this is why Kraft was so compliant with Goodell.

The NFL is an entertainment business. You really don't want fans to know (and more importantly, bettors), how the sausage is made. Regardless if they have all this new technology in play, the NFL wants to preserve the showbiz aspect, which is all about improvisation. The more than can downplay the preparation, the more exciting those 3 hours become for the viewer ("never know what's going to happen.")

It kind of reminds me of what would happen to Jazz artists in the 20s through 40s. They'd be backstage reading their scores, going over musical notation, just so they could preserve the aura of improvisation on stage.

The NFL can't let it out there that someone like Belichick stole someone else's signals, even if, as the NFL said in another instance, "That's football!!"

 

[FAIRTIDES]

So you're saying also that because the NCAA banned Uconn for the same offense for which they'd already been dinged, the fact of the ban proved Uconn was wrong.

You misunderstood. I'm saying innocent people don't go as quietly as the Pats did.

 

[Husky25]

1) We don't know, other than the deflated footballs, and last week which while legal, is still behavior that goes against the spirit of the rule. Legal? Sure. But Belichick has a history of questionable behavior, and he's earned the reputation. But that's 1 obvious violation, 1 example of questionable behavior, and 1 pending investigation. There's a lot of smoke, and it's not just victory cigars. But by all means, pretend everything is all good in Foxboro if you want.

2) So when did those teams get fined and punished for cheating? Refresh my memory.

Other formations and plays that go against the spirit of the rules according to Wing U:

Snapping the ball on the second "Hut"
Play Action pass play
Draw
Counter Trey
Reverses
Fake punt
Fake field goal
Onside kick
pre snap motion
Wildcat formation
Option Formations
Option plays
Check down throws
Flea Flicker
Statue of liberty

Do you really think anything in the rules are going to be changed vis a vie the unbalanced line? I doubt it. Not when the "catch rule" (or at least the interpretation thereof) is going to occupy the Competition Committee's time this off season. Everyone outside the greater Baltimore metropolitan region thinks Harbaugh was out of his mind in his explanation.

 

[upstater]

You misunderstood. I'm saying innocent people don't go as quietly as the Pats did.

The NFL is one big entertainment business. While Al Davis used to throw a fit at the slightest offense, Kraft is at the heart of all negotiations. I happen to remember Spygate week pretty well. It went from a minor story with people all over the place acknowledging that filming signals was common and that they used to do it a lot (Cowher, Jimmy Johnson, several others, some even fingered Howard Mudd of the Colts as the godfather of filming them), to a quirky story about FBI agents interrogating an intern, to analysts speculating the NFL would ding the Patriots for a 5th or 6th rounder, to suddenly inside sources saying the NFL was going to come down hard. Hard to speculate on what went on during that week, but I think it has everything to do with the NFL going out of its way to avoid the idea that the game can be decided by anything other than what goes on during the 3 hours of broadcast (especially when it comes to gambling). Kraft for sure went along with it, though he has several choice quotes on the matter.

But whatever the Patriots thought of it, Kraft was going to do it behind closed doors. He was not going to go Al Davis with it.

 

[Dooley]

They have cheated since they screwed Connecticut with that phony move to Hartford. Can't trust them. Put them in the same group with FSU and BCU. Go Seahawks!

Oh I get it. The Patriots can't be trusted but you're going to put your faith in a convicted felon ex-Governor. That seems like a good idea.

Do you even know where the proposed site for the Patriots stadium was located? On the same site that a steam plant sat on. Guess what? It's still there. Why? Because the ground underneath it can't support the weight of a stadium that big. Oh, and there's the whole thing about supplying energy and chilled water to a good chunk of downtown Hartford. Guess how long it took for our beloved state to figure out that this site was a bad idea? Over a year. Now guess who signed off on a binding contract that stated if Connecticut didn't break ground within 1 year of the announcement that Kraft could back out? Yup, that same convicted felon that you claim got screwed.

Just as a bonus illustration of just how trustworthy our CT politicians have been - can you take a stab at another venue that Rowland wanted to replace/upgrade? This one was on contingency that a certain NHL team would not relocate from the city. Yup, the XL Center still stands and, until this past summer when they added the booze lounge (but failed to sufficiently expand concourse areas, bathrooms, and improve flow around the arena), the only thing they've done to that building from Rowland's time to now was demo the old mall that surrounded the arena.

If you want to hate the Patriots, I couldn't care less. But I think your reasoning to hate them needs to change from the same tired old rhetoric that they somehow "screwed" Hartford/Connecticut . They did no such thing. Connecticut screwed Connecticut, just like it did when the Whalers left. Just like it did when it took WAY too long for Lew Perkins' dream of moving UCONN football to D-1. Just like it is doing now by driving some of the state's more talented workforce to relocate to other states.

Hate the Patriots because of the obnoxious fans. Hate 'em because you want to see someone else atop the AFC East for once. Hate them because they're affiliated with Boston and you also hate the Red Sox/Bruins/Celtics/BCU. I don't care why you hate them, unless that hate stems from an uninformed opinion that the Patriots somehow screwed Hartford/Connecticut. If I was Bob Kraft, I would have done the EXACT SAME THING. And you know what? He was right. The state never came up with a viable site for their stadium until years later when UTC donated land to build the Rent, which opened up AFTER Gillette Stadium.

 

[Bonehead]

I like Penn State. Always have. It was something of interest. Let's face it, UConn also had its own scandal sweeping child rape during summer camps under the rug. That doesn't change my appreciation for UConn sports even if I think the administration effed up royally.

Go get a tat of 409...

 

[CL82]

Fines, as outlined by ESPN, indicate somebody got caught doing something.

"NEW YORK -- New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for spying on an opponent's defensive signals.

Commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up its first-round draft choice next year if it reaches the playoffs this season, or its second- and third-round picks if it misses the postseason."

If innocence draws the above, guilt must be a bitch to deal with. Even the wealthy scream when dinged for a half-million.

Wait, you mean a professional football team tried to figure out the other teams signals? Why that's unheard of! Shocking! Completely out of the bound of decency! ....Oh wait, it happens everyday. How about you put big boy pants on and get over it.

 

[CL82]

They are alleging one of the balls passed inspection prior to the start of the game but became unusable during the game. Again, the NFL says this happens pretty regularly.

Got it. As I noted, albeit humerously, above, game conditions might have contributed to the ball getting a little softer, but the rule only speaks to presenting the balls for inspection prior to the game. There isn't anything in there that speaks to post inspection tampering. In Belicheck world view, if it isn't expressly prohibited, it's allowed and to be honest, he's probably correct in that view.

 

[Husky25]

Got it. As I noted, albeit humerously, above, game conditions might have contributed to the ball getting a little softer, but the rule only speaks to presenting the balls for inspection prior to the game. There isn't anything in there that speaks to post inspection tampering. In Belicheck world view, if it isn't expressly prohibited, it's allowed and to be honest, he's probably correct in that view.

Okay, NFL, what's taking so long? The ball is either under-inflated or it's not. How long does it take to measure the air pressure in a ball? There's a Sports Authority a half block away from League headquarters. Are they sold out? There's a Modell's down the road as well.

 

[upstater]

Go get a tat of 409...

How much will they pay me?

 

[CL82]

Okay, NFL, what's taking so long? The ball is either under-inflated or it's not. How long does it take to measure the air pressure in a ball? There's a Sports Authority a half block away from League headquarters. Are they sold out? There's a Modell's down the road as well.

Hell, they can borrow my air pressure gauge if they want.

 

[upstater]

Got it. As I noted, albeit humerously, above, game conditions might have contributed to the ball getting a little softer, but the rule only speaks to presenting the balls for inspection prior to the game. There isn't anything in there that speaks to post inspection tampering. In Belicheck world view, if it isn't expressly prohibited, it's allowed and to be honest, he's probably correct in that view.

Except for the fact that the referees give the balls to NFL employees in a zipped up bag until they're in use. You'd have to bribe the NFL emloyee to get to them. Or you can doctor it on the field in clear view. Or, the weirdest part: the refs didn't notice a problem at all with the balls until the Colts defender realized it on his interception.

 

[StoweD210]

Other formations and plays that go against the spirit of the rules according to Wing U:

Snapping the ball on the second "Hut"
Play Action pass play
Draw
Counter Trey
Reverses
Fake punt
Fake field goal
Onside kick
pre snap motion
Wildcat formation
Option Formations
Option plays
Check down throws
Flea Flicker
Statue of liberty

Do you really think anything in the rules are going to be changed vis a vie the unbalanced line? I doubt it. Not when the "catch rule" (or at least the interpretation thereof) is going to occupy the Competition Committee's time this off season. Everyone outside the greater Baltimore metropolitan region thinks Harbaugh was out of his mind in his explanation.

I hope none of those sensitive souls were hurt when they fainted after Seattle's fake FG this past Sunday. Not only did the Seahawks violate the spirit of the rules by passing when they showed every intention of kicking, but the guy who threw the pass was on the field to be the holder. It doesn't get more deceptive than that.

 

[gioff23]

You have to wonder if the Pats put these stories out to distract the media from focusing on what they otherwise would and allowing the team mroe time to focus on gameplan - the ultimate shell game.