OT - Multiple sources reporting investigation of Patriots

[dsturdy5]

So help me out are they alleging the Pats didn't have their balls available for testing, because that is all this rule talks about.

They are alleging one of the balls passed inspection prior to the start of the game but became unusable during the game. Again, the NFL says this happens pretty regularly.

 

[dsturdy5]

So does each team use its own ball or teams use the balls supplied by the home team?

I've seen this explained two different ways.

1. Each team uses its own balls.
2. The balls supplied by the teams are put into a pool and shared by the two teams during the game.

Not clear to me either way.

 

[UConn990411]

Also for those that say they beat them handily so it doesn't matter, then why would the Patriots need to resort to this in the first place? It's indefensible.

Lulz.

This story is really, really dumb.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

They were not accused of filming a practice. They were accused by a disgruntled former employee of filming a walk through. Yet, no tape ever existed. That was proven to be false, yet it is reported as fact.

The filmed from the sideline instead of the end zone covered box. Illegal? Sure. So is hands to the face, holding, pass interference...

Again, where is the cheating?

Fines, as outlined by ESPN, indicate somebody got caught doing something.

"NEW YORK -- New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for spying on an opponent's defensive signals.

Commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up its first-round draft choice next year if it reaches the playoffs this season, or its second- and third-round picks if it misses the postseason."

If innocence draws the above, guilt must be a bitch to deal with. Even the wealthy scream when dinged for a half-million.

 

[dsturdy5]

Fines, as outlined by ESPN, indicate somebody got caught doing something.

"NEW YORK -- New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for spying on an opponent's defensive signals.

Commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up its first-round draft choice next year if it reaches the playoffs this season, or its second- and third-round picks if it misses the postseason."

If innocence draws the above, guilt must be a bitch to deal with. Even the wealthy scream when dinged for a half-million.

I never said they didn't film signals, they didn't film practices. People throw it out there that they filmed the Rams like it's fact, they didn't. They did what numerous other teams did. They filmed signals from the sideline instead of from the end zone camera boxes (picture what is above the student section at the Rent).

My questions remain: What have they done since that to be labeled cheaters? Why don't people label other franchises who either admitted they did the same thing OR have been caught violating other league rules as cheaters?

 

[upstater]

While I truly hate the Pats each team uses it's own balls on offense. They submit 12 balls to the officials before the game for inspection and the balls are changed upon each change of possession (there are also separate ball for the kicking game hence the guy with the large red K vest on each sideline) so the Colts were using their own game balls.

You left out the most important part.

After the teams submit the ball for inspection 2 hours earlier, the refs then KEEP the balls until they hand them to the NFL ball assistant right before kickoff.

Indy is not used to playing in that kind of weather. They complained about the ball. If the ball is at the lower limit of 12 pounds, it could easily lose another 10% during the game.

 

[upstater]

Pretty sure nobody would argue that the Colts are nearly as good as the Patriots but that has nothing to do with the cheating. Everyone is supposed to play by the same rules. You say these desperate gates are growing tiresome, the explaining away of the Patriots cheating is also getting tiresome.

I am convinced you don't know the first thing about spygate. Not even a little clue what it was about.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

I never said they didn't film signals, they didn't film practices. People throw it out there that they filmed the Rams like it's fact, they didn't. They did what numerous other teams did. They filmed signals from the sideline instead of from the end zone camera boxes (picture what is above the student section at the Rent).

My questions remain: What have they done since that to be labeled cheaters? Why don't people label other franchises who either admitted they did the same thing OR have been caught violating other league rules as cheaters?

Probably nothing. To take it further, Bellichick now has other coaches chasing ghosts. It's right out of the Al Davis (young Al) play book. Every coach was sure Al was spying.

 

[upstater]

Fines, as outlined by ESPN, indicate somebody got caught doing something.

"NEW YORK -- New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for spying on an opponent's defensive signals.

Commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up its first-round draft choice next year if it reaches the playoffs this season, or its second- and third-round picks if it misses the postseason."

If innocence draws the above, guilt must be a bitch to deal with. Even the wealthy scream when dinged for a half-million.

So you're saying also that because the NCAA banned Uconn for the same offense for which they'd already been dinged, the fact of the ban proved Uconn was wrong.

 

[upstater]

The Pats cheat, they may not be the only team cheating, but they continue to be the only team getting caught. And using the fact other teams admitted to cheating as a defense is morally bankrupt. If your kid comes home with an F because he/she got caught cheating are you going to accept the excuse that 3 other kids in the class cheated too? "It's okay, just don't get caught next time." The Pats have a history of breaking the rules, whether or not it impacted the win last night doesn't matter. Nobody is suggesting they forfeit, but they are cheaters. And if you're going to be a fan of the Pats, just admit that they are cheaters and stop trying to rationalize their behavior as if fans of other teams should just accept their cheating.

How did the Patriots cheat in Spygate?

 

[bc puckett]

You left out the most important part.

After the teams submit the ball for inspection 2 hours earlier, the refs then KEEP the balls until they hand them to the NFL ball assistant right before kickoff.

Indy is not used to playing in that kind of weather. They complained about the ball. If the ball is at the lower limit of 12 pounds, it could easily lose another 10% during the game.

I didn't leave it out, I'm very aware of the procedure, I was simply replying to a post from someone (Palatine?) to point out that each team submits balls to the officials before a game and that the Colts would have been playing offense with the ones they submitted.

The bottom line is 45-7. I truly doubt balls had anything to do with it.

 

[whaler11]

Oh God please don't give Upstater a corrupt organization to passionately defend. Now that Penn State is rolling he's got plenty of time.

 

[buddy]

"The Colts used the same balls". But yeah, let's get all up in arms and proclaim the Patriots as cheaters. Again.

They have cheated since they screwed Connecticut with that phony move to Hartford. Can't trust them. Put them in the same group with FSU and BCU. Go Seahawks!

 

[mauconnfan]

"The Colts used the same balls". But yeah, let's get all up in arms and proclaim the Patriots as cheaters. Again.

But knowing it was going to happen that way, did they "practice" with them? This game was not at all decided by deflated balls but if it's found to be true, they will become the biggest cheaters in NFL history under Billy B. Is that a good thing? Of course it is, to Pats fans lol

 

[BlueMAB]

Two things...

1. As a teacher, if a kid cheats (mine or anyone else's) I hope the penalty is the same for all parties involved.

2. Let's say that the recording in 2007 was cheating, what have they done since then to be "cheaters"?

1. Let's say you pretend to be intellectually honest and admit that pointing out the same poor behavior from other parties is not a defense for your poor behavior regardless of how you perceive punishment should be handed down. If other teams were caught, and not punished, then the pats were treated unfairly, that doesn't mean they aren't cheaters.

2. Let's say you cheat on your wife once. Does that mean you aren't a cheater 7 years later? They have earned their reputation whether you like it or not.

 

[BlueMAB]

How did the Patriots cheat in Spygate?

They didn't. Belichik was fined half a million for shytz and giggles.

 

[noeynox]

My thing is, this sheet only comes up when they win. Last year when they lost to the Broncos we didn't hear jack sheet. When they lost to the Giants in the super bowl you don't hear sheet. I'm used to it by now. In spy gate, the guy who claimed he had the taped walked through of the Rams practice never produced it, but spygate was involving the jets, I forget. Whatever. If they lose the superbowl you won't hear sheet if they win its cause they cheated.

 

[dsturdy5]

1. Let's say you pretend to be intellectually honest and admit that pointing out the same poor behavior from other parties is not a defense for your poor behavior regardless of how you perceive punishment should be handed down. If other teams were caught, and not punished, then the pats were treated unfairly, that doesn't mean they aren't cheaters.

2. Let's say you cheat on your wife once. Does that mean you aren't a cheater 7 years later? They have earned their reputation whether you like it or not.

1. The Patriots were the first (presumably only) team caught after the league directive to knock it off in early 2007. I'm not saying they weren't wrong but they weren't alone. They were caught. Nothing else has happened since then for them to be considered "cheaters", as in the present, continuing sense.

2. So the Broncos are cheaters, the Cowboys are cheaters, the Redskins (who did spy on practices in the 70's and 80's) are cheaters, the Jets are cheaters, the Steelers are cheaters...why don't I ever hear about them referred to as such?

 

[BlueMAB]

1. The Patriots were the first (presumably only) team caught after the league directive to knock it off in early 2007. I'm not saying they weren't wrong but they weren't alone. They were caught. Nothing else has happened since then for them to be considered "cheaters", as in the present, continuing sense.

2. So the Broncos are cheaters, the Cowboys are cheaters, the Redskins (who did spy on practices in the 70's and 80's) are cheaters, the Jets are cheaters, the Steelers are cheaters...why don't I ever hear about them referred to as such?

1) We don't know, other than the deflated footballs, and last week which while legal, is still behavior that goes against the spirit of the rule. Legal? Sure. But Belichick has a history of questionable behavior, and he's earned the reputation. But that's 1 obvious violation, 1 example of questionable behavior, and 1 pending investigation. There's a lot of smoke, and it's not just victory cigars. But by all means, pretend everything is all good in Foxboro if you want.

2) So when did those teams get fined and punished for cheating? Refresh my memory.

 

[BlueMAB]

My thing is, this sheet only comes up when they win. Last year when they lost to the Broncos we didn't hear jack sheet. When they lost to the Giants in the super bowl you don't hear sheet. I'm used to it by now. In spy gate, the guy who claimed he had the taped walked through of the Rams practice never produced it, but spygate was involving the jets, I forget. Whatever. If they lose the superbowl you won't hear sheet if they win its cause they cheated.

You really don't get that?

They most likely weren't doing anything wrong, but if they were...

If a team cheats and loses anyway, who cares? It's easier to remember the Barry Bonds', Sammy Sosas, and Mark McGuire's because of the records they were setting/chasing. Nobody remembers the AAA guys that got caught.

Of course, the only one setting up the strawman crediting their wins to their cheating is you. The people criticizing them have all said the win yesterday had nothing to do with it.

 

[dsturdy5]

1) We don't know, other than the deflated footballs, and last week which while legal, is still behavior that goes against the spirit of the rule. Legal? Sure. But Belichick has a history of questionable behavior, and he's earned the reputation. But that's 1 obvious violation, 1 example of questionable behavior, and 1 pending investigation. There's a lot of smoke, and it's not just victory cigars. But by all means, pretend everything is all good in Foxboro if you want.

2) So when did those teams get fined and punished for cheating? Refresh my memory.

1. How does using a legal formation go against the spirit of the rule? I supposed the tackle catching a td pass goes against the spirit of the rule. So does the Seahawks' fake field goal? And when the Titans and Lions both used similar formations this past season? How about when Alabama used those formations in the game vs LSU?

Former coaches and scouts, among others, admitted to filming after the pats were caught, which were all before the directive to stop (which included a reminder that this was a long standing rule that wasn't being followed). The Broncos WERE punished for manipulating the salary cap.

 

[Mots010]

2. So the Broncos are cheaters

Broncos fans will gladly admit to cheating. You know, when the team and the head coach got fined 50k for filming a 49ers walkthrough in London back in 2010? Josh McDaniels was the head coach at the time. He hired the same video guy from the Patriots scandal. Damn rogue video guys!

 

[noeynox]

You really don't get that?

They most likely weren't doing anything wrong, but if they were...

If a team cheats and loses anyway, who cares? It's easier to remember the Barry Bonds', Sammy Sosas, and Mark McGuire's because of the records they were setting/chasing. Nobody remembers the AAA guys that got caught.

Of course, the only one setting up the strawman crediting their wins to their cheating is you. The people criticizing them have all said the win yesterday had nothing to do with it.

That is not what I said, but whatever. What I said is the cheating/controversy is only brought up IF they win, your saying if they lose no one cares their cheating. That doesn't make any sense. They're either cheating or they're not.

 

[dsturdy5]

Broncos fans will gladly admit to cheating. You know, when the team and the head coach got fined 50k for filming a 49ers walkthrough in London back in 2010? Josh McDaniels was the head coach at the time. He hired the same video guy from the Patriots scandal. Damn rogue video guys!

I have a love/hate relationship with McDaniels. Him as the OC in the super bowl scares the hell out of me.

However, about that salary cap infraction...

 

[Mots010]

However, about that salary cap infraction...

Never really understood how this one seemed to escape the PR wrath that the Pats got for spygate. Maybe it was worse a decade ago.