OT: ESPN in-depth article on Deflategate, with roots in Spygate

[VAMike23]

LINKY

The actions behind 'Spygate' were a lot more systematic than I had understood them to be. Also, my boss at work has been hypothesizing that the owners must somehow be 'upset with Goodell' over his pursuit of the Patriots and Deflategate in general . . . . . .

Not.

 

[UcMiami]

ESPN - the standard mouthpiece of the NFL head office - great place to get false leaks posted and run with without fear of blowback.

 

[VAMike23]

Not too be outdone, SI adds their own take today:

LINKY

 

[meyers7]

Wow there's a lot of paranoid people out there.

 

[toadfoot]

Just more slander from the NFL's unofficial mouthpiece, ESPN. Anonymous sources making unsubstantiated allegations with zero evidence. In other words, an NFL PR hit piece, implying for the umpteenth time that the Patriots stole signals against league rules when the fact is that stealing signals is not now and has never been illegal.

There's actually very little new here, although I admit I couldn't get to the end... I was afraid I might throw up in my morning cereal. Goodell once again has shown himself to be like a petulant child who just got caught taking cookies from the cookie jar before dinner and to get back at mom has taken his best crayons to the dining room wall.

 

[Mike75]

Hard to believe the ESPN article is an NFL sponsored piece. Goodell does not come off well at all. He actually comes off worse than the Pats. Plenty of ammo in there for the owners to oust him if they so desire.
The SI article is garbage. Absolutely nothing new there.

 

[j66kicker]

SI:

One person who knows Belichick well says he does not consider the coach “a cheat.” But he acknowledges that, while others might simply obey a rule, Belichick will search for loopholes and gray areas to exploit—he’ll “study it and take it to the nth degree.

“This guy is two steps ahead of everybody because he is so brilliant. If you’re going to walk the line, every once in a while you’re stepping over. Sometimes somebody has to pull him back in. In his mind, he thinks: I’ll get an advantage and somebody else can figure out if it’s illegal. My job is to coach a football team.”

ESPN version said, "Belichick and Ernie Adams are the guys you want doing your taxes..." - they find more loopholes.

Maybe the other teams, in addition to being jealous, are just not as smart, so they have to make up/assume "cheating" to explain being outsmarted (all those other times when there wasn't actual cheating - heh heh).

 

[toadfoot]

Wow there's a lot of paranoid people out there.

In some respects this is pretty funny, but it's also troubling because I see the same sort of "guilt by public opinion" in US society. I can't count the number of times I've seen commenters (not so much on the Boneyard, but elsewhere) that use the phrase "where there's smoke there's fire". In this case the "smoke" is unnamed sources who make unsubstantiated allegations with no evidence. Put another way, the lack of evidence of wrongdoing is proof of the wrongdoing! Surreal! Kafka couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[Monte]

Just more slander from the NFL's unofficial mouthpiece, ESPN. Anonymous sources making unsubstantiated allegations with zero evidence. In other words, an NFL PR hit piece, implying for the umpteenth time that the Patriots stole signals against league rules when the fact is that stealing signals is not now and has never been illegal.

There's actually very little new here, although I admit I couldn't get to the end... I was afraid I might throw up in my morning cereal. Goodell once again has shown himself to be like a petulant child who just got caught taking cookies from the cookie jar before dinner and to get back at mom has taken his best crayons to the dining room wall.

I was reading your post, and the 2 words, "stealing signals." caught my eye. This does go on in all sports, but the best I've heard is about the 1951 NY Giants baseball team, and Bobby Thompson's dramatic home run. I was listening to Vin Scully do a Dodger game a few years ago, and he mentioned this book: THE ECHOING GREEN, by Joshua Prager. If you like baseball, especially during the 1950's, you will love this book! The main point is that the Giants were stealing signs from visiting teams in the Polo Grounds. They had a large telescope set up in their center field clubhouse area.

 

[Beemer]

Just more slander from the NFL's unofficial mouthpiece, ESPN. Anonymous sources making unsubstantiated allegations with zero evidence. In other words, an NFL PR hit piece, implying for the umpteenth time that the Patriots stole signals against league rules when the fact is that stealing signals is not now and has never been illegal.

There's actually very little new here, although I admit I couldn't get to the end... I was afraid I might throw up in my morning cereal. Goodell once again has shown himself to be like a petulant child who just got caught taking cookies from the cookie jar before dinner and to get back at mom has taken his best crayons to the dining room wall.

Well said. BTW I love your avatar!

 

[toadfoot]

Well said. BTW I love your avatar!

Isn't she a charmer! Not our cat though. When the wife and I lived in the Seattle area for a few years we were scanning the internet for local shelters and came across her (Sabrina), but by the time we could get a hold of the shelter she had already been adopted.
These are our guys now that our son is in Chicago (go Cubs).

 

[PhillyCoach]

Just more slander from the NFL's unofficial mouthpiece, ESPN. Anonymous sources making unsubstantiated allegations with zero evidence. In other words, an NFL PR hit piece, implying for the umpteenth time that the Patriots stole signals against league rules when the fact is that stealing signals is not now and has never been illegal.

There's actually very little new here, although I admit I couldn't get to the end... I was afraid I might throw up in my morning cereal. Goodell once again has shown himself to be like a petulant child who just got caught taking cookies from the cookie jar before dinner and to get back at mom has taken his best crayons to the dining room wall.

Yo Toad--agree with your view. Here is some Key Inside dope for you and other BY posters- (seems pretty obvious, but no one is saying it out loud.) **Brady did nothing wrong or said anything to his ball boys, etc --THIS YEAR, or last year or the last 10 years. How do I know? Because 13 years age after Brady became the starter, the ball boys (or those in charge of balls/game balls) found out at that time that Brady liked a less inflated ball. They asked, he mentioned in passing--or whatever the circumstances, it was known then (13 years ago). Just like every starter in the NFL since the forward pass was invented. Some like a little over-inflated, some less, and some don't care. Brady NEVER had to say a word again after that info was known 13 years ago. Brady never knew if it would happen (sometimes it did, sometimes not) didn't know if the refs would pull a ball (sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't.)
Legal Question - Did Brady say or do anything during this year or for that particular championship game --relating to the ball? NO HE DID NOT!! Innocent until proven quilty. There was no evidence because Brady was not involved this year or the last 10 years!

 

[j66kicker]

I was reading your post, and the 2 words, "stealing signals." caught my eye. This does go on in all sports, but the best I've heard is about the 1951 NY Giants baseball team, and Bobby Thompson's dramatic home run. I was listening to Vin Scully do a Dodger game a few years ago, and he mentioned this book: THE ECHOING GREEN, by Joshua Prager. If you like baseball, especially during the 1950's, you will love this book! The main point is that the Giants were stealing signs from visiting teams in the Polo Grounds. They had a large telescope set up in their center field clubhouse area.

But football defensive play calling signs are given out in the open, not requiring a telescope - as Belichick said, "In front of us and 80,000 people."

 

[toadfoot]

I was reading your post, and the 2 words, "stealing signals." caught my eye. This does go on in all sports, but the best I've heard is about the 1951 NY Giants baseball team, and Bobby Thompson's dramatic home run. I was listening to Vin Scully do a Dodger game a few years ago, and he mentioned this book: THE ECHOING GREEN, by Joshua Prager. If you like baseball, especially during the 1950's, you will love this book! The main point is that the Giants were stealing signs from visiting teams in the Polo Grounds. They had a large telescope set up in their center field clubhouse area.

I would actually question the "legality" of what the Giants were doing, but not the stealing of signals per se, only that they were doing so in a way not available to the visiting team. If the visiting team were allowed to set up a telescope in the center field clubhouse then fine, no problem. Besides, there's nothing like a catcher flashing the sign for a curveball and then having the pitcher buzz a 95mph fastball under the hitters chin to disabuse teams from trying to steal catcher's signs

 

[Beemer]

Isn't she a charmer! Not our cat though. When the wife and I lived in the Seattle area for a few years we were scanning the internet for local shelters and came across her (Sabrina), but by the time we could get a hold of the shelter she had already been adopted.
These are our guys now that our son is in Chicago (go Cubs).
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Cuteness overload right there!

 

[j66kicker]

Deflator & pal coming back to Pats this week

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story...riots-reinstate-banned-deflategate-duo-friday

 

[UcMiami]

I love this NFL office - lies upon lies - Goodell ' We had absolutely nothing to do with those two employees being suspended', but in the NFL penalty to the Patriots that came out a few days after they were suspended, it specifically required league permission for them to be reinstated, and restricted their employment to areas away from ball preparation. Somehow that just doesn't make sense, Roger, except in the very literal sense that of course the league couldn't suspend people it doesn't employ! Of course it was the Patriots who suspended them, but it was the league who told the Patriots when and how they could be re-employed.

And I can't get over the repeated use of the texted 'Deflator' nickname used once in May 2014 during the off-season to refer to himself - a full 6 months before a game in which the game balls were found to be over-inflated to around 16 PSI by the refs. ESPN - fair and balanced.

FYI - I think the NFL caving on their reinstatement is the clearest proof that they had absolutely nothing. If they didn't cave, one or both would have sued and the discovery in that lawsuit would have included lots of internal communications from the league office as well as the full extent of the investigative notes from Wells ' 'independent' (thanks judge) investigation.

 

[toadfoot]

I love this NFL office - lies upon lies - Goodell ' We had absolutely nothing to do with those two employees being suspended', but in the NFL penalty to the Patriots that came out a few days after they were suspended, it specifically required league permission for them to be reinstated, and restricted their employment to areas away from ball preparation. Somehow that just doesn't make sense, Roger, except in the very literal sense that of course the league couldn't suspend people it doesn't employ! Of course it was the Patriots who suspended them, but it was the league who told the Patriots when and how they could be re-employed.

And I can't get over the repeated use of the texted 'Deflator' nickname used once in May 2014 during the off-season to refer to himself - a full 6 months before a game in which the game balls were found to be over-inflated to around 16 PSI by the refs. ESPN - fair and balanced.

FYI - I think the NFL caving on their reinstatement is the clearest proof that they had absolutely nothing. If they didn't cave, one or both would have sued and the discovery in that lawsuit would have included lots of internal communications from the league office as well as the full extent of the investigative notes from Wells ' 'independent' (thanks judge) investigation.

Almost certainly not going to happen, but one of the reasons I would love to see Brady sue for defamation is what might turn up during discovery. While the bar for proving defamation is higher for "public figures" (I assume Brady would be considered as such) in that a plaintiff must prove that statements were known to be false and made with malicious intent and that they caused harm, given what we already know I think there's a decent chance that the discovery process would reveal some smoking guns. I would expect that all NFL documents pertaining to Deflategate would be subpoenaed, including all external communications with Wells, other teams, etc. I'd be quite surprised if there weren't at least a couple that acknowledged the NFL had nothing, but chose to proceed anyway. Would it be enough to show malice and would Brady be able to show harm? No idea, but it would be interesting.

 

[UcMiami]

Almost certainly not going to happen, but one of the reasons I would love to see Brady sue for defamation is what might turn up during discovery. While the bar for proving defamation is higher for "public figures" (I assume Brady would be considered as such) in that a plaintiff must prove that statements were known to be false and made with malicious intent and that they caused harm, given what we already know I think there's a decent chance that the discovery process would reveal some smoking guns. I would expect that all NFL documents pertaining to Deflategate would be subpoenaed, including all external communications with Wells, other teams, etc. I'd be quite surprised if there weren't at least a couple that acknowledged the NFL had nothing, but chose to proceed anyway. Would it be enough to show malice and would Brady be able to show harm? No idea, but it would be interesting.

Unfortunately, I think Goodell could use the defense of being 'stupid' in such a proceeding.
I too would love to see all that documentation, and would love to see Exponents full laboratory notes - all the tests they did that didn't prove deflation, that somehow didn't make it into the final report! Just having the NFL claim that ALL communication between any NFL office employee and any member of the Wells law firm was privilege client/attorney communication would be lovely. But I doubt a defamation suit would get past the first hearing. Unfortunately I believe all arbitration proceedings and the final award document are, like court proceedings protect from defamation claims - that award document is about as close to the line for malicious intent and outright lies as happened in the whole 7 months.

 

[Zorro]

Isn't she a charmer! Not our cat though. When the wife and I lived in the Seattle area for a few years we were scanning the internet for local shelters and came across her (Sabrina), but by the time we could get a hold of the shelter she had already been adopted.
These are our guys now that our son is in Chicago (go Cubs).
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