OT: Brady out for 4 and Pats lose a first round pick. Nm

[Duncan Idaho]

It's just stunning that speculation and innuendo is all it takes to get suspended. Unreal.

That's because Goodell didn't' t give a about spousal abuse. Was there any Q&As with McNally in the report?

 

[Palatine]

I imagine many of the people creaming themselves all over social media hate the Patriots more than they like their own teams. Pathetic scumbags. Get a life.

So the patriots are proven to be cheaters and the folks who don't like cheating are scumbags.

Could be, but, more likely the Patriots are scumbags.

 

[Stainmaster]

So the patriots are proven to be cheaters and the folks who don't like cheating are scumbags.

Could be, but, more likely the Patriots are scumbags.

If you think they're scumbags, all the more reason for anyone with a brain to stand by them.

I also find your use of "proven" hilarious. This coming from someone who probably thinks that Boyle is "proven" to be better than Whitmer. And I'm not even going to touch what I've seen on the cesspool.

 

[Scoe]

the amount of salt coming from patriot fans rivals the amount that rome used in carthage circa 146 bc

There is just as much salt coming from patriots fans, the whoe is me well this guy did it too kind of attitude.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I hate the Pats and Brady but I won't shed any tears for them.

That said, this punishment is absurd and will likely not stand. You can't punish them this severely based on the notion that Brady "more probably than not" was involved. I mean the entire world with a pulse knew this months ago, but to levy these sanctions, you'd better have rock solid proof.

As usual, the cover up is worse than the crime. But this is more about Roger flexing his muscles after botching the Ray Rice, Greg Hardy, and Adrian Peterson debacles. I'm expecting the suspension to be cut in half, the fine and the 1st round pick to be reversed.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I hate the Pats and Brady but I won't shed any tears for them.

That said, this punishment is absurd and will likely not stand. You can't punish them this severely based on the notion that Brady "more probably than not" was involved. I mean the entire world with a pulse knew this months ago, but to levy these sanctions, you'd better have rock solid proof.

As usual, the cover up is worse than the crime. But this is more about Roger flexing his muscles after botching the Ray Rice, Greg Hardy, and Adrian Peterson debacles. I'm expecting the suspension to be cut in half, the fine and the 1st round pick to be reversed.

Let's hope. There was no basis for taking the pick, given that Wells and the NFL, who let's be honest, was really trying to get Belichick with this sting operation, exonerated him and the franchise. Brady's suspension makes the NFL look stupid when Rice beat his fiance unconscious and dragged her through a hotel on video and got two games. And the highest fine ever levied? For this? That's ridiculous.

The arbitrator will reduce the suspension for sure. The pick better come back or Kraft should make sure that Goodell is out of a job by next year. Goodell is the embarrassment. This couldn't have been handled worse by the league.

 

[Jimdish255]

Has it ever been proven there's a competitive advantage with 11 psi over 12 psi?

If this was the Tennessee Titans or Jacksonville Jaguars, nothing would have happened.

He's made it clear that he prefers a lower PSI and I'm pretty sure he knows what benefits him. No science necessary here.

 

[mets1090]

Question for fans of other teams though: Would you be fine with your team cheating if it meant the result was multiple super bowls? My guess would be absolutely.

If it's something like this, without a doubt. I don't think anyone thinks this had a material impact on the games and I think most people agree that it's a widespread thing. Getting caught doesn't take away the feelings that you experienced from September-February.

As I posted in another thread, I don't understand why Patriots fans flip out about people hating them and targeting them with this stuff. Yeah I'd be pissed about the suspension but I would also trade a 4 game suspension for a Super Bowl 10 times out of 10. You get punished more when you're a good team because it's more visible. Comes with the territory. It's like the opposite of how the NCAA works.

 

[J187Money]

Why wasn'UCONN deflating footballs all these years! Other than Danny O that explains all the crappy QB play. Oh boy, woulds, coulda,shoulda! We coulda been a contenda!

Can you imagine the amount of interceptions if we did? There were at least 10 extra a year that bounced off defenders hands.

 

[HuskyHawk]

He's made it clear that he prefers a lower PSI and I'm pretty sure he knows what benefits him. No science necessary here.

I really wish people would scrutinize the "evidence" more carefully.

There were two pressure gauges used. One read significantly higher than the other. The referee's "best recollection" is that the one with the logo was used before the game. However, if you take that as the case, there is no deflation. So Wells assumes the opposite.

But the text messages you say, what of those? Well the guy who calls himself the deflator started that because he was bringing balls that were at 16. I read this as evidence that the Pats, and Brady, wanted them at 13. They simply didn't want them overinflated.

McNally also sends these texts to his fiancée that week:
Jastremski: Ugh…Tom was right.
Jastremski: I just measured some of the balls. They supposed to be 13 lbs… They were like 16. Felt like bricks​

 

[bmayuc]

Look, this isn't complicated:

1. The NFL can do literally anything they want to the Patriots organization. Short of a lawsuit, the organization has no recourse since the Commissioner is given total control over punishment, and there is no option for arbitration/review.

2. The NFL doesn't need to establish "conclusively" that anything happened. This aint the Court of Law. They did a (Very, VERY) thorough report that included freaking science, math, and statistics, including forensic evidence of the phones, interviews. I mean, it was overkill specifically because they knew you Pats fans would be looking for any little thing to hold on to in spite of overwhelming evidence their golden boy is a cheat-ah.

3. Competitive advantage simply does not matter. Anytime anyone says : "its not even a big deal", or "That fumble study has been disproved", just remind that that it literally does not matter 1 single iota if it actually helped the Patriots/Brady. There is a rule. 12.5PSI is the rule. It sure seems like they were intentially circumventing that rule, knowingly. Then they lied about it. THEN, they did a sh!tty job of covering the cheating and the lie up, and got caught red-handed. OH, and then when they DID say anything, a guy making $10 million a year threw a couple $10/hr guys under the bus. Its pretty despicable.

So, as it always is, the coverup is many times worse than the initial crime. When you Cheat, Lie, Obfuscate, and generally treat people with contempt, do not be surprised when they give you the finger. And certainly, don't let your dumb fans twist in the wind, half-heartedly standing up for you for cheating, lieing, Obfuscating, and generally treating people with contempt.

It makes them look like idiots.

 

[Section205]

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy, nicer owner or nicer franchise!

 

[uconnric]

If there ever was an "Evil Empire", that name now belongs to the New England Patriots.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Look, this isn't complicated:

1. The NFL can do literally anything they want to the Patriots organization. Short of a lawsuit, the organization has no recourse since the Commissioner is given total control over punishment, and there is no option for arbitration/review.

2. The NFL doesn't need to establish "conclusively" that anything happened. This aint the Court of Law. They did a (Very, VERY) thorough report that included freaking science, math, and statistics, including forensic evidence of the phones, interviews. I mean, it was overkill specifically because they knew you Pats fans would be looking for any little thing to hold on to in spite of overwhelming evidence their golden boy is a cheat-ah.

3. Competitive advantage simply does not matter. Anytime anyone says : "its not even a big deal", or "That fumble study has been disproved", just remind that that it literally does not matter 1 single iota if it actually helped the Patriots/Brady. There is a rule. 12.5PSI is the rule. It sure seems like they were intentially circumventing that rule, knowingly. Then they lied about it. THEN, they did a sh!tty job of covering the cheating and the lie up, and got caught red-handed. OH, and then when they DID say anything, a guy making $10 million a year threw a couple $10/hr guys under the bus. Its pretty despicable.

So, as it always is, the coverup is many times worse than the initial crime. When you Cheat, Lie, Obfuscate, and generally treat people with contempt, do not be surprised when they give you the finger. And certainly, don't let your dumb fans twist in the wind, half-heartedly standing up for you for cheating, lieing, Obfuscating, and generally treating people with contempt.

It makes them look like idiots.

They did a very thorough job of crafting a fake report to support conclusions they wanted to support. Seriously, do you hear yourselves? Just read this, it's not from any Pats fan site or Boston paper. There will be lawsuits. No open minded person can look at the actual facts and conclude as Wells or the NFL did.

Let's see those emails from Goodell to Wells, ordering him to find something, even if the evidence doesn't support it. I want to see his phone.

 

[CL82]

I hate the Pats and Brady but I won't shed any tears for them.

That said, this punishment is absurd and will likely not stand. You can't punish them this severely based on the notion that Brady "more probably than not" was involved. I mean the entire world with a pulse knew this months ago, but to levy these sanctions, you'd better have rock solid proof.

As usual, the cover up is worse than the crime. But this is more about Roger flexing his muscles after botching the Ray Rice, Greg Hardy, and Adrian Peterson debacles. I'm expecting the suspension to be cut in half, the fine and the 1st round pick to be reversed.

Not "more probably than not was involved" but "more probably than not was generally aware." That is as mush mouthed as you can get while still purporting to come to a conclusion.

 

[CL82]

If there ever was an "Evil Empire", that name now belongs to the New England Patriots.

1) Tennessee woman's basketball - I don't argue with Auriema.
2) I mean you pretty much have to go with the Yanks...even if you are a Yankee fan. As a BoSox fan it pains me to admit it but those 27 WSCs are unprecedented.

 

[bmayuc]

They did a very thorough job of crafting a fake report to support conclusions they wanted to support. Seriously, do you hear yourselves? Just read this, it's not from any Pats fan site or Boston paper. There will be lawsuits. No open minded person can look at the actual facts and conclude as Wells or the NFL did.

Let's see those emails from Goodell to Wells, ordering him to find something, even if the evidence doesn't support it. I want to see his phone.

I like it, go full out conspiracy theory mode. Strong move, usually proven correct.

Seriously tho, what is the NFLs MOTIVE to make this all up? Goodell just nuked a relationship with one of the most powerful owners, degraded/disgraced one of his leagues most marketable stars, and tarnished the DEFENDING SUPER BOWL CHAMPION.

Is it the Illuminati? Occams Razor dude. Brady did it, NFL protecting its image and the game had to hammer him.

Now take a deep breath, put away the ouija board, and rejoin the real world.

 

[slepers]

This is Goodell trying to play up to the 31 other owners. They were already penalized a draft pick for spygate. Most of the other owners are jealous of the frnachise. Do not Patriots fans The team will win a super bowl soon if not this year to spite the NFL

 

[HuskyHawk]

I like it, go full out conspiracy theory mode. Strong move, usually proven correct.

Seriously tho, what is the NFLs MOTIVE to make this all up? Goodell just nuked a relationship with one of the most powerful owners, degraded/disgraced one of his leagues most marketable stars, and tarnished the DEFENDING SUPER BOWL CHAMPION.

Is it the Illuminati? Occams Razor dude. Brady did it, NFL protecting its image and the game had to hammer him.

Now take a deep breath, put away the ouija board, and rejoin the real world.

Obviously someone who didn't read what was at the links. Goodell wants the NFL to look "tough" after they botched Ray Rice and Adrien Peterson, and several others. Nothing sends that message more than going after the golden boy and your most successful franchise. As for Occam's Razor, if you apply it here, there is no investigation at all. The simplest explanation is that the balls were measured using two different gauges, which varied significantly, and then the weather caused any further decrease. 3 of 4 Indy balls tested were under the 12.5 limit as well, and those had significantly more time indoors to warm up. Also, the whole thing is based on the assumption that every single ball from Indy started at exactly 13 and every New England ball started at exactly 12.5, which we know has a statistical likelihood of zero. But worse than that, nobody even knows what they were. It wasn't recorded.

Occam's Razor tells you that nothing happened here. There was no deflation and no cheating.

 

[temery]

I have been a Dolphins fan since the late 60's, do I don't really care about the Pats. It mostly BS, but I'll be interested in seeing what happens to Brady's numbers once he returns from the suspension. He'll have to play with regulation balls, like it or not.

If he is close to his career average, fine. If not, I'll smile every time I see an asterisk on his stat sheet.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Obviously someone who didn't read what was at the links. Goodell wants the NFL to look "tough" after they botched Ray Rice and Adrien Peterson, and several others. Nothing sends that message more than going after the golden boy and your most successful franchise. As for Occam's Razor, if you apply it here, there is no investigation at all. The simplest explanation is that the balls were measured using two different gauges, which varied significantly, and then the weather caused any further decrease. 3 of 4 Indy balls tested were under the 12.5 limit as well, and those had significantly more time indoors to warm up. Also, the whole thing is based on the assumption that every single ball from Indy started at exactly 13 and every New England ball started at exactly 12.5, which we know has a statistical likelihood of zero. But worse than that, nobody even knows what they were. It wasn't recorded.

Occam's Razor tells you that nothing happened here. There was no deflation and no cheating.

What does occam's razor tell us about "The Deflator" nickname used in the texts....?

 

[FAIRTIDES]

Look, this isn't complicated:

1. The NFL can do literally anything they want to the Patriots organization. Short of a lawsuit, the organization has no recourse since the Commissioner is given total control over punishment, and there is no option for arbitration/review.

2. The NFL doesn't need to establish "conclusively" that anything happened. This aint the Court of Law. They did a (Very, VERY) thorough report that included freaking science, math, and statistics, including forensic evidence of the phones, interviews. I mean, it was overkill specifically because they knew you Pats fans would be looking for any little thing to hold on to in spite of overwhelming evidence their golden boy is a cheat-ah.

3. Competitive advantage simply does not matter. Anytime anyone says : "its not even a big deal", or "That fumble study has been disproved", just remind that that it literally does not matter 1 single iota if it actually helped the Patriots/Brady. There is a rule. 12.5PSI is the rule. It sure seems like they were intentially circumventing that rule, knowingly. Then they lied about it. THEN, they did a sh!tty job of covering the cheating and the lie up, and got caught red-handed. OH, and then when they DID say anything, a guy making $10 million a year threw a couple $10/hr guys under the bus. Its pretty despicable.

So, as it always is, the coverup is many times worse than the initial crime. When you Cheat, Lie, Obfuscate, and generally treat people with contempt, do not be surprised when they give you the finger. And certainly, don't let your dumb fans twist in the wind, half-heartedly standing up for you for cheating, lieing, Obfuscating, and generally treating people with contempt.

It makes them look like idiots.

First, I'm not a Patriot's fan. No horse in the race or dog in the hunt.

Damn near everything you say is true. The NFL's power, in regard to judge/jury/executioner is supreme, New England is a repeat offender and some of the team's staff can be arrogant and dismissive.

Few problems, though.

Arbitration- In it's role of supreme judge of all things good and true, and it's additional role of executioner, the league is wildly inconsistent. In fact, the punishments have been all over 'n place. Brady's reps are going to present every incident of domestic abuse, DUI's, PED's, "Bounty-gate" (attempt to injure), Weapons Charges, et. al., ad infinitum and show how previous punishments relate to Brady's and the Patriots' punishments. It's not coincidence that the NFL has had a rough time lately, with arbitration.

And as to the allegations that Brady and the Patriots were misleading and less than cooperative, the League can probably prove that the people involved with previous punishments were totally forthcoming.

Some other stuff has come up. It sounds like, according to a YAHOO account, that the Patriots are more in the mode of retaliation. Brady's lawyer has already questioned the integrity of the relationship between the League and it's "in-house council." Kraft seems to be walking towards the Armory, as well.

The same account said that the Patriots had resigned themselves to, and were ready to accept, whatever the League came up with; until the saw what the League came up with. The reaction to the actual punishment must have gone from incredulity to many pissed off.

Another thing I read is Brady's Lawyer's rebuttal to League's assertions about team Brady's refusal to turn over electronic sources to the NFL's Lawyers. Supposedly, Team Brady offered to sit in the room with NFL investigators while Texts and Emails were reviewed. The offer was made to ensure that nothing that might embarrass Brady/Mrs. Brady's non-football related, high-profile friends somehow found it's way to the media. It wasn't mentioned, but I would guess a very specific NDA was part of the proposal.

 

[scdono]

Here's my opinion. This whole investigation is a sham. The evidence is so weak no prosecutor or attorney would pursue such a case on the "lower standard of preponderance of evidence". The haters get there day and Goodell has support of the majority owners who can't win a title. Ted Wells got paid $5,000,000.00 to give Goodell what he need. And yes, I am a trial attorney and know things above real "evidence". That is all, back to the haters...

 

[uconnric]

Here's my opinion. This whole investigation is a sham. The evidence is so weak no prosecutor or attorney would pursue such a case on the "lower standard of preponderance of evidence". The haters get there day and Goodell has support of the majority owners who can't win a title. Ted Wells got paid $5,000,000.00 to give Goodell what he need. And yes, I am a trial attorney and know things above real "evidence". That is all, back to the haters...

This is not a criminal investigation. Preponderance of the evidence is the standard. Wells found that it was more likely than not that it was done with Brady's direction and by the team's equipment people, hence the team is liable.
It's pretty obvious what happened and that the standard of proof was correctly applied.

 

[phillionaire]

There is just as much salt coming from patriots fans, the whoe is me well this guy did it too kind of attitude.

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