Officiating During Texas NC St Game | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Officiating During Texas NC St Game

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Just what I was thinking. This isn't the same crew that screwed FGCU, is it?

Thank you Tomcat.... yes just as today's NCState Texas game had some horrible calls, FGCU was jobbed with 2 terrible calls (or non calls) at end of their game....

The athletes and coaches work too hard for officiating in general to be at a substandard level in all of WCBB.... which it certainly is....

As I have said before it is no wonder Dee Kantner Lisa Mattingly and Brian Enterline get all the big games.... to trust to most of the other officials is problematic.... IMO
 
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I may be wrong, but I don't believe that part of the criteria for a charge is that the defender needs to be knocked off her feet. A bigger Texas defender was in legal position in plenty of time. A smaller NC State player bowled into her and stopped as if hitting a wall. She initiated A LOT of contact. That sure looked like a charge to me.

I have to say, that when two teams of a certain ilk meet, the modern game can become so physical that it's not only impossible to officiate. If 52 fouls are warranted, then call 52 fouls. Maybe someday the players will adjust and start playing basketball again.

Someone mentioned this a couple of weeks ago, that the rules-people need to take a new and hard look about contact in this game. I'm of the opinion that far more offensive fouls should be called if it's that player who overtly bodies into a defender that is moving parallel to them.
 

MilfordHusky

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I cant blame him. If Duke lost a game like that..... you wouldnt hear from me for weeks.. :(
Is that a promise? ;)

Just kidding, as I hope you know. I also hope no one loses that way. The FGCU game was worse, in my view.
 
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52 fouls is too much I don't care who the two teams are. This AZ-SOCAR game is turning into a foul-fest too. Refs need to back off a bit.
 
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52 fouls is too much I don't care who the two teams are. This AZ-SOCAR game is turning into a foul-fest too. Refs need to back off a bit.

So, you're only concerned about the number of fouls, not if the action on the court is actually a foul?
 
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So, you're only concerned about the number of fouls, not if the action on the court is actually a foul?
I'm saying it's as if the refs want their TV time and/or control the game. I'm sorry you seem to have taken issue with my statement. And that's not what I meant..
 
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They swallowed their whistle at the end of the FGCU-Miami game yesterday, and it was hardly fair to FGCU.
If they swallow hard enough, maybe some stripes are out for the season.
 
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I'm saying it's as if the refs want their TV time and/or control the game. I'm sorry you seem to have taken issue with my statement. And that's not what I meant..

There are some refs who would do that, but I think most of the time that they're trying to keep control of a suspected, or what has become, a very physical game. The players need to learn. Good teams can defend without all the bumping, reaching, etc. Example: UCONN.
 
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As someone said, neither team adjusted to the way the refs were calling the game. Hence the many, many fouls. Each team got bad calls. The fifth call on Spencer was correct. Those who think it was the wrong call, including the color commentary person, were looking at only the last part of the sequence, in which it did look like their arms just got tangled up. Before that, however, Spencer wrapped her arms around McCarty to get the whole thing started. Rebecca Lobo can have her opinion, but to denounce the charge call on Wilson so strongly was inappropriate. As others have said, the call was completely consistent with the way charges were called throughout the game. There were two replays. In the one from behind, the one they kept showing, it looked like Holmes may have flopped. But, if it was a flop, the charge itself occurred before she decided to flop. The replay from the side shows clearly that Wilson ran pretty hard into Holmes.

I emphatically disagree with people who think refs should make calls differently in the last part of a game. The game must have rules, and if they change at the end, how can players know what to expect? Are they supposed to realize at some point that they can probably start running over people or taking chances they never would otherwise? When does that start? 60 seconds left? 30 seconds left? It really irks me when TV announcers say, "Let the players decide at the end of a game." Yes, let the players decide the game within the rules. Anything else is confusing, arbitrary and unfair.
 
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As someone said, neither team adjusted to the way the refs were calling the game. Hence the many, many fouls. Each team got bad calls. The fifth call on Spencer was correct. Those who think it was the wrong call, including the color commentary person, were looking at only the last part of the sequence, in which it did look like their arms just got tangled up. Before that, however, Spencer wrapped her arms around McCarty to get the whole thing started. Rebecca Lobo can have her opinion, but to denounce the charge call on Wilson so strongly was inappropriate. As others have said, the call was completely consistent with the way charges were called throughout the game. There were two replays. In the one from behind, the one they kept showing, it looked like Holmes may have flopped. But, if it was a flop, the charge itself occurred before she decided to flop. The replay from the side shows clearly that Wilson ran pretty hard into Holmes.

I emphatically disagree with people who think refs should make calls differently in the last part of a game. The game must have rules, and if they change at the end, how can players know what to expect? Are they supposed to realize at some point that they can probably start running over people or taking chances they never would otherwise? When does that start? 60 seconds left? 30 seconds left? It really irks me when TV announcers say, "Let the players decide at the end of a game." Yes, let the players decide the game within the rules. Anything else is confusing, arbitrary and unfair.

I'm in complete agreement. I was very disappointed in Rebecca Lobo, and the female announcer at the game seems to believe that the more vehement her opinions were, especially on the officiating, the better the job she was doing.
 
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No way do you foul out a teams best player on that call in final minute of a tied elimination game.

Rebecca Lobo and the color commentator were 100% right to call them out.
 
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Seems like a higher power wants Baylor and Texas to meet in the FF :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wonder why???? Oh, I remember, the game's in Dallas, isn't it. Be careful what you pray for NCAA higher power. If UConn isn't in the Finals, ratings will s**k.
 

Gus Mahler

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The replay from the side shows clearly that Wilson ran pretty hard into Holmes.
Nice post. You've cited one of the keys to this. One poster thought that because Holmes weighs a lot more she shouldn't have been knocked over. But there's that mass times velocity thing, and the State player was going hard and didn't appear to slow down, or at least not much.

And as @Plebe noted, she was there in plenty of time. So I don't know where Lobo was coming from. If that's not a charge, what would be?
 

Bigboote

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I don't know who said that, but whoever it was, they are flat-out wrong. Referees are taught specifically that not every fall merits a call.

Just to be clear, I absolutely agree -- I was pointing out that that mindset is out there.
 

Plebe

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Nice post. You've cited one of the keys to this. One poster thought that because Holmes weighs a lot more she shouldn't have been knocked over. But there's that mass times velocity thing, and the State player was going hard and didn't appear to slow down, or at least not much.

And as @Plebe noted, she was there in plenty of time. So I don't know where Lobo was coming from. If that's not a charge, what would be?
Lobo argued it should be a no-call and the rationale for that is that Holmes could've stood her ground without falling down.

That's IMO a gross oversimplification of the true criteria for call/no-call but that's a commonly heard rationale.
 

southie

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No way do you foul out a teams best player on that call in final minute of a tied elimination game.

Rebecca Lobo and the color commentator were 100% right to call them out.
Guess the officials must not be familiar with that rule in their officiating handbook.

Yeah, a team's best player should be allowed to do whatever they want in the last minute of a tight game cuz the fans don't want them to be out of the game. Let her just impede Texas' best player and 3-point shooter from trying to get the ball by wrapping her arms all over her. SMH
 

Blueballer

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Guess the officials must not be familiar with that rule in their officiating handbook.

Yeah, a team's best player should be allowed to do whatever they want in the last minute of a tight game cuz the fans don't want them to be out of the game. Let her just impede Texas' best player and 3-point shooter from trying to get the ball by wrapping her arms all over her. SMH

Not quite. They were both grabbing each other but McCarty sold it with her gyrations.
 
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Any team with significant depth who goes against UConn would be wise to come out of the gates playing uber-physical to get the refs whistle-happy.
Based on some of our big games in past years, I'm afraid we can just about count on it. Started in 1995.
 

Shorty Dee

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It wasn't just the NC State vs Texas game, it was a lot of bad officiating all day today.
Also, I have been saying for a long time how I didn't like the jump ball rule, and the announcer (SC game) said he wished they would change the rule, so the officials could throw the ball up and let the players jump for the ball.
 

donalddoowop

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Thank you Tomcat.... yes just as today's NCState Texas game had some horrible calls, FGCU was jobbed with 2 terrible calls (or non calls) at end of their game....

The athletes and coaches work too hard for officiating in general to be at a substandard level in all of WCBB.... which it certainly is....

As I have said before it is no wonder Dee Kantner Lisa Mattingly and Brian Enterline get all the big games.... to trust to most of the other officials is problematic.... IMO
I've seen Kantner make some terrible calls, especially in SC games.
 
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Rebecca is smart and likeable --- but, I don't believe it is the role of TV commentators to take such firm positions on referees' calls. Maybe it's okay to say they don't agree with a call, but if so, leave room that you might be wrong. You weren't there at the gym. The referees were just a few feet away. Their job is a hard one and pretty much a thankless one, and doesn't pay well to boot. "Questionable" or "debatable" is about as far as it should go from the TV people. The woman doing color in Austin, whom I also like, was quite opinionated on calls . This may be the trend. Doris Burke has been doing it, too. Rebecca came close to saying NC State should have won the game because of one ref's call. The whole two hours of playing and calling is what determines the outcome of the game. Refereeing is never an absolute science. They have to go with what they saw at the time. There is no time to telephone Lobo or Burkes and ask what the correct call was. If Rebecca or Doris feel strongly about the mistakes referees make, a career change could be a viable option for them. Maybe they would elevate the quality of officiating (but I doubt it.)
 
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There have been quite a few games this tournament where the refs have been horrible...or just not consistent and this game was another example. It is frustrating.
 

CocoHusky

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No way do you foul out a teams best player on that call in final minute of a tied elimination game.
Rebecca Lobo and the color commentator were 100% right to call them out.
How would a referee go about determining a team's best player?
 

CocoHusky

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Rebecca is smart and likeable -- but, I don't believe it is the role of TV commentators to take such firm positions on referees' calls. Maybe it's okay to say they don't agree with a call, but if so, leave room that you might be wrong. You weren't there at the gym. The referees were just a few feet away. Their job is a hard one and pretty much a thankless one, and doesn't pay well to boot. "Questionable" or "debatable" is about as far as it should go from the TV people. The woman doing color in Austin, whom I also like, was quite opinionated on calls . This may be the trend. Doris Burke has been doing it, too. Rebecca came close to saying NC State should have won the game because of one ref's call. The whole two hours of playing and calling is what determines the outcome of the game. Refereeing is never an absolute science. They have to go with what they saw at the time. There is no time to telephone Lobo or Burkes and ask what the correct call was. If Rebecca or Doris feel strongly about the mistakes referees make, a career change could be a viable option for them. Maybe they would elevate the quality of officiating (but I doubt it.)
I have no issues with Rebecca or Doris or any other commentator expressing an opinion on a particular call. I would be disappointed if they did not. A commentators position on a particular call though is significantly different than the referee's because of replay and slow motion.
 

skilz

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Is there a website that shows who the refs will be for todays game?
 

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