Kiah selected 3rd in WKBL

[Huskyin808]

This topic interests me, because I wonder how many players, especially American players CHOOSE to not play or try out for WNBA squads. We hear of Deanna Nolan, Diana Taurasi, Liz Cambage. But who else is playing abroad? And who is willingly sitting out the WNBA?

 

[hoophuskee]

It's amazing what a change of venue and a new coach with a different outlook and approach can do for one's career. I could not be happier for Kiah. I have a feeling we won't recognize Kiah this time next year. The pro game will have slowed down for her by then, and her confidence level will be through the roof.

This is so ridiculous. She's just as she was with UCONN when in her junior year she was the 6th man for arguably the greatest women's college basketball team of all-time. But the greatest defender in UCONN history is doing what she has always done - and that is score sporadically and play super defense. If you think she is going to be some sort of good (consistent) scorer next year for a playoff caliber team, you're going to be awfully disappointed.

Did you watch the game tonight? At all? Did you see the moves that Tina was making? Do you think that type of scoring is learned in just 1 year? You're insulting Tina Charles hard work developing her scoring abilities by assuming in just 1 or 2 years Kiah will be "unrecognizable."

I couldn't be prouder of Kiah. Her defense is awesome. And to think on another thread that Laimbeer had thought this year Kiah would be some important scorer for one thing and another he is supposedly shocked how well her help defense is-- both are mind-boggling but from opposite points of view. Bill is WITNESSING on defense what most of us Husky Blue fans ALREADY KNEW and THOUGHT IT WAS / IS A NO BRAINER THAT SHE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A TEMENDOUS HELP DEFENDER.

And how sometimes this gets twisted into taking swipes at Auriemma is mind-boggling.

 

[DobbsRover2]

This is so ridiculous. She's just as she was with UCONN when in her junior year she was the 6th man for arguably the greatest women's college basketball team of all-time. But the greatest defender in UCONN history is doing what she has always done - and that is score sporadically and play super defense. If you think she is going to be some sort of good (consistent) scorer next year for a playoff caliber team, you're going to be awfully disappointed.

Did you watch the game tonight? At all? Did you see the moves that Tina was making? Do you think that type of scoring is learned in just 1 year? You're insulting Tina Charles hard work developing her scoring abilities by assuming in just 1 or 2 years Kiah will be "unrecognizable."

I couldn't be prouder of Kiah. Her defense is awesome. And to think on another thread that Laimbeer had thought this year Kiah would be some important scorer for one thing and another he is supposedly shocked how well her help defense is-- both are mind-boggling but from opposite points of view. Bill is WITNESSING on defense what most of us Husky Blue fans ALREADY KNEW and THOUGHT IT WAS / IS A NO BRAINER THAT SHE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A TEMENDOUS HELP DEFENDER.

And how sometimes this gets twisted into taking swipes at Auriemma is mind-boggling.

Lot of merit in what you say, but Laimbeer as a coach and the stats as stats are seeing something that is apparently eluding many observers. Kiah's Offensive Rating which includes more than just scoring but rather all the things she does to help her team score is at a very high 113, which on the Liberty is behind only the limited-minutes offensive powerhouse Carolyn Swords. Although Tina leads the team in scoring, she has had a very weak year overall on the offensive end with a 90 rating, though she has made up for it in part by having a Defensive Rating that is almost as good as Stokes's. When you're shooting 56% in the WNBA in your rookie season, you're doing something very right. And give Laimbeer credit for recognizing a good thing and thinking it could soon get even better.

 

[hoophuskee]

Lot of merit in what you say, but Laimbeer as a coach and the stats as stats are seeing something that is apparently eluding many observers. Kiah's Offensive Rating which includes more than just scoring but rather all the things she does to help her team score is at a very high 113, which on the Liberty is behind only the limited-minutes offensive powerhouse Carolyn Swords. Although Tina leads the team in scoring, she has had a very weak year overall on the offensive end with a 90 rating, though she has made up for it in part by having a Defensive Rating that is almost as good as Stokes's. When you're shooting 56% in the WNBA in your rookie season, you're doing something very right. And give Laimbeer credit for recognizing a good thing and thinking it could soon get even better.

I agree KStokes having a fine year. Offensive Ratings are a good measurement. A guy like Tyson Chandler has the top two single-season Offensive Ratings in NBA History. He has three seasons in the top five and four in the top ten. Robin Lopez is number 10. -- in NBA History. It's ideal to get them the ball based on this data but these players don't create. Same with Kiah. She can make an occasional/sporadic low post play but at this point in her career she can't create.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_season.html

Someone brought up the excellent call Lobo made saying Kiah was going to be terrific in the WNBA. One of the things she said was to paraphrase "she's going to have her legs because she doesn't play big minutes." For her to have played big minutes it would have meant we would have embarrassed teams by a lot lot more. and there were so few teams that could challenge us in the paint- which is Kiah's calling card.

Anyways I am so pumped - she looks like a prime Hakeem Olajuwon out there on defense. -- I was too young for Russell-- but that "bum" too!!!! .

 

[DobbsRover2]

I agree KStokes having a fine year. Offensive Ratings are a good measurement. A guy like Tyson Chandler has the top two single-season Offensive Ratings in NBA History. He has three seasons in the top five and four in the top ten. Robin Lopez is number 10. -- in NBA History. It's ideal to get them the ball based on this data but these players don't create. Same with Kiah. She can make an occasional/sporadic low post play but at this point in her career she can't create.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_season.html

Someone brought up the excellent call Lobo made saying Kiah was going to be terrific in the WNBA. One of the things she said was to paraphrase "she's going to have her legs because she doesn't play big minutes." For her to have played big minutes it would have meant we would have embarrassed teams by a lot lot more. and there were so few teams that could challenge us in the paint- which is Kiah's calling card.

Anyways I am so pumped - she looks like a prime Hakeem Olajuwon out there on defense. -- I was too young for Russell-- but that "bum" too!!!! .

Yeah, I understand this perception of Kiah as an offensively all-thumbs player, and certainly I ground my teeth a lot when she was with UConn with her seeming obliviousness at times to the idea that if you're big and tall you shouldn't be holding the ball at a level low enough that a lot of smaller players tie you up or poke the ball away. And part of that comes with just not being experienced with a quick inside move for a score. If only Gabby Williams could have given Kiah a special clinic last year.

OTOH, you look at the stats with the WNBA season's 14 games so far and you see a much brighter picture, with Kiah's Offensive Rating and even her Offensive Win Share being higher than many of the scorers that everyone thinks are offensive paragons until you look at the stats behind their volume numbers. It doesn't mean that Kiah is an offensive diamond in the rough, but it does mean that her contributions on the offensive end for a still offensively challenged team (though the absorption of Epiphany Prince in the last 4 games, as discussed in an NY Times article today that does not mention Kiah at all, will help them improve). Sure, Kiah is 1st in blocks (though Griner has been quickly catching up after the suspension) and 5th in Defensive Win Shares and it's on that end of the floor where she will be the beast, but the numbers are showing that she has a pretty ferocious effect on the other side of the floor too. If she had enough minutes to qualify, Kiah's Offensive Rating would be 6th or 7th on the Top 10 list for the WNBA, and yes she is ahead of Maya, and Tina as mentioned is way down the charts near the bottom this year.

I don't know, maybe the numbers all just lie.

 

[Carnac]

This is so ridiculous. She's just as she was with UCONN when in her junior year she was the 6th man for arguably the greatest women's college basketball team of all-time. But the greatest defender in UCONN history is doing what she has always done - and that is score sporadically and play super defense. If you think she is going to be some sort of good (consistent) scorer next year for a playoff caliber team, you're going to be awfully disappointed.

Did you watch the game tonight? At all? Did you see the moves that Tina was making? Do you think that type of scoring is learned in just 1 year? You're insulting Tina Charles hard work developing her scoring abilities by assuming in just 1 or 2 years Kiah will be "unrecognizable."

I couldn't be prouder of Kiah. Her defense is awesome. And to think on another thread that Laimbeer had thought this year Kiah would be some important scorer for one thing and another he is supposedly shocked how well her help defense is-- both are mind-boggling but from opposite points of view. Bill is WITNESSING on defense what most of us Husky Blue fans ALREADY KNEW and THOUGHT IT WAS / IS A NO BRAINER THAT SHE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A TEMENDOUS HELP DEFENDER.

And how sometimes this gets twisted into taking swipes at Auriemma is mind-boggling.

Hoophuskie, You're jumping the gun. I said "A YEAR FROM NOW!! Not today. Get back to me in a year from now. If Kiah is still playing the same way then, I'll give you your props, and say that you were right. No one is insulting Tina Charles. That's YOUR take, and you're the only poster that seems to have that opinion. Kiah has Latent skills that need to be worked on and polished. Kiah is playing more minutes a game now than she ever did at UConn. Plus she'll play overseas. Some of us are more optimistic than you are. If we're wrong, so what? It's just sports. It's not threatening anyone's life or national security.

That experience and exposure will improve her offensive game. If you remember in one of her prior interviews, she said at UConn, she was not allowed to shoot. She's allowed to now!! For now, I stand by my prediction. That's all it is, is a prediction, not an iron clad guarantee. I see the cup as half full, you see it as half empty.

The season is not half over yet, and it appears that you have given up on Kiah. Unless you can see into the future, you have no idea (right now) what it holds, or how she is going to develop. Stranger things have happened. Time will tell which one of us is right.

 

[Carnac]

Yeah, I understand this perception of Kiah as an offensively all-thumbs player, and certainly I ground my teeth a lot when she was with UConn with her seeming obliviousness at times to the idea that if you're big and tall you shouldn't be holding the ball at a level low enough that a lot of smaller players tie you up or poke the ball away. And part of that comes with just not being experienced with a quick inside move for a score. If only Gabby Williams could have given Kiah a special clinic last year.

OTOH, you look at the stats with the WNBA season's 14 games so far and you see a much brighter picture, with Kiah's Offensive Rating and even her Offensive Win Share being higher than many of the scorers that everyone thinks are offensive paragons until you look at the stats behind their volume numbers. It doesn't mean that Kiah is an offensive diamond in the rough, but it does mean that her contributions on the offensive end for a still offensively challenged team (though the absorption of Epiphany Prince in the last 4 games, as discussed in an NY Times article today that does not mention Kiah at all, will help them improve). Sure, Kiah is 1st in blocks (though Griner has been quickly catching up after the suspension) and 5th in Defensive Win Shares and it's on that end of the floor where she will be the beast, but the numbers are showing that she has a pretty ferocious effect on the other side of the floor too. If she had enough minutes to qualify, Kiah's Offensive Rating would be 6th or 7th on the Top 10 list for the WNBA, and yes she is ahead of Maya, and Tina as mentioned is way down the charts near the bottom this year.

I don't know, maybe the numbers all just lie.

Agreed. You detailed what I said in one sentence. I did not say or suggest that Stokes is going to become a 15- 25 point a night scorer. I said we won't recognize her this time next year. I'm suggesting that she will be averaging more points in a year, that she is NOW (the pro game will have slowed down for her by then). That's not a stretch. I'm optimistic, as are many other Kiah supporters and fans here on the yard. I'm not alone. If we're wrong, so what? It's sports. It's fun to follow our favorite teams and players and watch and speculate on their development. It's not life or death. Predictions are like playing the stock market. Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. The great thing about sports is tomorrow is another day. You get anther chance to win and get better.

 

[MJL243]

http://www.fullcourt.com/blog/sue-favor/kiah-stokes-learning-lot-and-having-fun

I found out that I’ll be playing in South Korea during the WNBA off-season. South Korea’s league does it a little different. They only have six teams in the league and each team can only have two foreigners. In order to pick the foreigners, they hold a draft each year. Out of the 80 or 90 potential draftees, only 12 were taken and I was fortunate enough to be picked. This experience is one that I am looking forward to and I’m excited I now know where I’ll be playing once the WNBA season concludes.

 

[hoophuskee]

Yeah, I understand this perception of Kiah as an offensively all-thumbs player, and certainly I ground my teeth a lot when she was with UConn with her seeming obliviousness at times to the idea that if you're big and tall you shouldn't be holding the ball at a level low enough that a lot of smaller players tie you up or poke the ball away. And part of that comes with just not being experienced with a quick inside move for a score. If only Gabby Williams could have given Kiah a special clinic last year.

OTOH, you look at the stats with the WNBA season's 14 games so far and you see a much brighter picture, with Kiah's Offensive Rating and even her Offensive Win Share being higher than many of the scorers that everyone thinks are offensive paragons until you look at the stats behind their volume numbers. It doesn't mean that Kiah is an offensive diamond in the rough, but it does mean that her contributions on the offensive end for a still offensively challenged team (though the absorption of Epiphany Prince in the last 4 games, as discussed in an NY Times article today that does not mention Kiah at all, will help them improve). Sure, Kiah is 1st in blocks (though Griner has been quickly catching up after the suspension) and 5th in Defensive Win Shares and it's on that end of the floor where she will be the beast, but the numbers are showing that she has a pretty ferocious effect on the other side of the floor too. If she had enough minutes to qualify, Kiah's Offensive Rating would be 6th or 7th on the Top 10 list for the WNBA, and yes she is ahead of Maya, and Tina as mentioned is way down the charts near the bottom this year.

I don't know, maybe the numbers all just lie.

Sure I agree with you. Offensive rating and Win Shares “tell a story.” But as Mark Cuban said after he won a title – that basketball isn’t baseball. He went on to explain that advanced metrics is important but doesn’t tell the whole story.

For example look at Tyson Chandler’s Offensive Rating and Offensive Win Shares. per the link below. He’s 1st in 2014-2015 in ORating and 11th in Offensive Win Shares. Do teams go to Tyson and think of him as a consistently good scorer? He was 5th on his team in scoring and the Mavs even let him go.

In terms of Tyson's career, when his Offensive Rating and Offensive Win Shares peaked from 07-08 to present his Usage Factor never rose above 14.5%. Therefore every single basketball team he played on including the champion Mavericks never wanted him to touch the ball much. And he has been a free agent several times yet no one really looked to get him the ball that much more tan the 14.5 Usage Factor indicates. Can every team be wrong by not giving the ball more to Tyson or maybe in this case the numbers “do lie” a little?


http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_leaders.html

 

[hoophuskee]

Agreed. You detailed what I said in one sentence. I did not say or suggest that Stokes is going to become a 15- 25 point a night scorer. I said we won't recognize her this time next year. I'm suggesting that she will be averaging more points in a year, that she is NOW (the pro game will have slowed down for her by then). That's not a stretch. I'm optimistic, as are many other Kiah supporters and fans here on the yard. I'm not alone. If we're wrong, so what? It's sports. It's fun to follow our favorite teams and players and watch and speculate on their development. It's not life or death. Predictions are like playing the stock market. Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you. The great thing about sports is tomorrow is another day. You get anther chance to win and get better.

I had a post for you -- all in fun(it wasn't bad/insulting only that I disagree with your entire outlook) - I didn't want to send it - and sort of glad I didn't in that one HUGE issue I had with your posts is when you said -- in your very 1st sentence-

"It's amazing what a change of venue and a new coach with a different outlook and approach can do for one's career."

And now you're saying when Kiah comes back she is going to be "unrecognizable."


SO- you mean to tell me after your dig at Geno and then saying “She’ll be unrecognizable” that you just meant she would score just a few points more? How is THAT "unrecognizable?"
For me- when you said "unrecognizable" that means A SIGNIFICANT point production. If it just a few points more, then how does your comment "It's amazing what a change of venue and a new coach with a different outlook and approach can do for one's career" mean anything if it is just a few points more?

I agree with your last post to Dobbs to an extent. She has a shot to score a few more points. But for me - the points aren't what makes her tick- so if she does or doesn't no big deal imo. Just look at those stats Dobbs gave. Impressive. They'd be impressive next year too. But it seems from the italicized post you made on this thread - you think her career was going badly. For me if she averages 9 ppg and plays as I said Hakeem Olajuwon / Bill Russell type defense, I call that a high value player, and yet I'm categorized as a half-empty person? I hope you're not suggesting ppg is the only way to value a player?

I have called her THE GREATEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN UCONN HISTORY. This is UCONN THE DYNASTY and she is Number 1 DEFENSIVE PLAYER EVER IN THE DYNASTY and SCHOOL HISTORY! I couldn't understand why I would get the feeling that some "experts" / "blogs"/ "websites" felt she wouldn't go 1st round. I'm in the minority opinion that during the finals Doris Burke's loose comments about Kiah were grossly over-exaggerated/highlighted and have posted several times as such. Yet I'm the one categorized as "half-empty" for Kiah even though I'm ripping into a well-liked analyst on this site, and comparing her defense to supreme greats? I've pointed out she could shoot and hit free throws so she isn't like a lot of defensive big player juggenrauts that get purposely fouled. Yet I'm being categorized as half-empty when I think she is a high value without having to score a lot more? SO if she doesn't score much more, I'm going to be one of the leads that defends her, right? Maybe I'd be the one saying she is real good and YOU would eb the one arguing that she isn't? I doubt it- but your sentence above in italics- I'm not so sure what you're thinking.

And by the way, I've met some UCONN fans before on these type of venues. This is all in fun. I recognize these are all just opinions. It's okay we disagree, right? It's just that your dig into Geno then calling Kiah "unrecognizable in just 1 year" - I don't get how a few points more per game would make her "unrecognizable."

 

[Carnac]

I had a post for you -- all in fun(it wasn't bad/insulting only that I disagree with your entire outlook) - I didn't want to send it - and sort of glad I didn't in that one HUGE issue I had with your posts is when you said -- in your very 1st sentence-

"It's amazing what a change of venue and a new coach with a different outlook and approach can do for one's career."

And now you're saying when Kiah comes back she is going to be "unrecognizable."


SO- you mean to tell me after your dig at Geno and then saying “She’ll be unrecognizable” that you just meant she would score just a few points more? How is THAT "unrecognizable?"
For me- when you said "unrecognizable" that means A SIGNIFICANT point production. If it just a few points more, then how does your comment "It's amazing what a change of venue and a new coach with a different outlook and approach can do for one's career" mean anything if it is just a few points more?

I agree with your last post to Dobbs to an extent. She has a shot to score a few more points. But for me - the points aren't what makes her tick- so if she does or doesn't no big deal imo. Just look at those stats Dobbs gave. Impressive. They'd be impressive next year too. But it seems from the italicized post you made on this thread - you think her career was going badly. For me if she averages 9 ppg and plays as I said Hakeem Olajuwon / Bill Russell type defense, I call that a high value player, and yet I'm categorized as a half-empty person? I hope you're not suggesting ppg is the only way to value a player?

I have called her THE GREATEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN UCONN HISTORY. This is UCONN THE DYNASTY and she is Number 1 DEFENSIVE PLAYER EVER IN THE DYNASTY and SCHOOL HISTORY! I couldn't understand why I would get the feeling that some "experts" / "blogs"/ "websites" felt she wouldn't go 1st round. I'm in the minority opinion that during the finals Doris Burke's loose comments about Kiah were grossly over-exaggerated/highlighted and have posted several times as such. Yet I'm the one categorized as "half-empty" for Kiah even though I'm ripping into a well-liked analyst on this site, and comparing her defense to supreme greats? I've pointed out she could shoot and hit free throws so she isn't like a lot of defensive big player juggenrauts that get purposely fouled. Yet I'm being categorized as half-empty when I think she is a high value without having to score a lot more? SO if she doesn't score much more, I'm going to be one of the leads that defends her, right? Maybe I'd be the one saying she is real good and YOU would eb the one arguing that she isn't? I doubt it- but your sentence above in italics- I'm not so sure what you're thinking.

And by the way, I've met some UCONN fans before on these type of venues. This is all in fun. I recognize these are all just opinions. It's okay we disagree, right? It's just that your dig into Geno then calling Kiah "unrecognizable in just 1 year" - I don't get how a few points more per game would make her "unrecognizable."

We can go around and around on this topic all year. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. I have my opinion, and you have yours. I'm perfectly OK with you "not getting" my point of view, not everyone does. Everyone that posts here is not going to agree on everything. I stand by what I wrote. I think before I write, and as I write, and I proof read before I hit send.

I've read your comment, and I've not budged one inch. It is MY view, and I posted it for all to see and criticize if they wish, and you did. Believe it or not, I don't have a problem with you not liking or agreeing with (or understanding) my take. We really don't have anything to argue about.

I've played the game, I've coached the game, I've refereed the game and I've watched the game for a long time. I don't need anyone to tell me what I'm looking at, or what I see. Everyone has their own point(s) of view. Nowhere is it written that said point(s) of view must align or agree with everyone else's. This is why I'm somewhat taken aback by your comments. I never expected a single "like" in response to my post. Again, I'm perfectly OK with you not liking or agreeing with my take.

I'm sure we'll butt heads again. We don't think alike. For the record, I'm a huge Geno fan and I trust him. But he is not perfect, he has his faults. And I will call him out if I think he's out of order. He's been butting heads with CD for 30 years. He can mishandle a player's ego from time to time like any other coach. He's admitted that on camera. Sometimes his ego can get the better of him. That's what the other coaches are there for, to do damage control with the players after the fact.

In Kiah's case, unless we hear from him and her in detail what really happened, we'll never really know. That ship has sailed, and both have moved on. Neither of them is going to stir up those issues again for public consumption. Maybe his approach (in her case) was not appropriate, or maybe he just could not connect with her. coaches lose players all the time. Why do you think they transfer? I'm sure they had many private "behind closed door" meetings during her 4 years there.

Maybe she was lazy, maybe she got in over her head or maybe it was something he said in private, or in practice, that turned her off, and decided not to do what he wanted her to do. Or maybe he just gave up on her. Don't think this doesn't happen. I've seen it personally. I witnessed a teammate (in college) get personally attacked, embarrassed and completely eviscerated by our head coach in front of the entire team.

The guy was never the same after that. He loss his passion to play on the team, as well as any respect he had for the coach. Had he not been a senior, he would have transferred. He only stayed on because he was close to graduation.

It does happen. It only comes to light if someone reports it. I'm NOT saying this happened between Geno and Kiah. I would be totally surprised if it did. Geno is smarter than that. He has learned what buttons to push and when, to motivated. Some his girls. Something happened between her senior year in high school, and her sophomore year at UConn, because they were not on the same page after that.

She may have wanted to transfer at some point (speculation only), but we know her father would not allow it. You can't be happy when you're in the coach's dog house. As I'm sure you know (it's been well documented), she spent a lot of time there.

Unless one of the coaches writes a book later and details this, we'll never know.
His fault, her fault, nobody's fault. Somewhere along the way, he lost her. It appeared to me that she was out there playing, but her heart was not in it. I could be wrong, but that's what it looked like to me.

At UConn, there are certain things you are taught and expected to do. She said all the right things in interviews, but I'm still not so sure she was content to be there. Sometimes players and coaches have a difficult time finding a "happy medium".

Just look at some of the notable NBA players that don't get along with their coaches: Magic Johnson (Paul Westhead) Kobe, LaBron, Allen Iverson, Rajon Rondo and DeMarcus Cousins just to name a few.

Kiah is not an aggressive person. That fact comes through in her play. She'll never be a Tina Charles. I've never compared her to Tina Charles. I don't know where your suggestion that I disrespected Tina came from. That's YOUR opinion, not mine. If that's the way my comment read to you, I'm OK with it. It's not in her DNA. Trying to compare the two is like expecting two siblings to be and act alike.

In time, she may learn (or break out of her shell) to play with more aggression and passion, or she may not. At this time, NO ONE knows what's going to happen in the future. My post was nothing more than speculation and optimism. As I've stated before, time will tell. Regardless, I remain a fan of hers, and I remain optimistic.

In either case, she now has a new outlook, a new attitude, and from what she says, she's having fun now playing in New York. Like many other posters here, I'm happy for her. Like it or not, Bill Laimbeer has a completely different opinion of Kiah than Geno did. I'm sure he's made that know to her. He sees potential in Kiah that he thinks he can draw out of her. So, what you make of that is up to you.

I see a comment here once in a while that I read tongue in cheek, but I don't get upset or offended because a poster has a different observation or view point than I do. I enjoy reading other's observations and takes. Sometimes they disclose information I was not aware of.

Sometimes it makes you stand back and re-examine your point of view. That's how one grows. Someone is always going to have information that you don't have. Lot's of commenters have stated facts (not opinions) that I did not know about. That's why I enjoy the yard so much.

It's like being a Democrat, Republican or an Independent. All parties have their own agenda, and think they know what's best. They're really not interested in what the other party(s) opinion is about them. They're comfortable in their own skin.

I still maintain that this is not something to get all worked up over. You've made your point(s), I've made mine. Your comments didn't move me any more than mine moved you. I've said that to say this: I''ve said all I'm going to say about this. We disagree on multiple fronts, let's leave it at that.

 

[Carnac]

I tried to correct some typos on the above post, but got timed out.

 

[hoophuskee]

Carmac – I have to respond. The more you speak the more I’m stunned.

1--- Later in your post you say - It does happen. It only comes to light if someone reports it. I'm NOT saying this happened between Geno and Kiah.

Yet before that you lay out innuendo after innuendo that something was happening. Such as the below shows. IMO you’re just making this stuff between her and Geno. Above you say “you aren’t saying . . . “ YET “you feel a need to say it.”

In Kiah's case, unless we hear from him and her in detail what really happened, we'll never really know. That ship has sailed, and both have moved on. Neither of them is going to stir up those issues again for public consumption.

Maybe his approach (in her case) was not appropriate, or maybe he just could not connect with her. coaches lose players all the time. Why do you think they transfer?.

From me: Not appropriate? You mean how Geno helped Kiah get drafted in the 1st round?

I witnessed a teammate (in college) get personally attacked, embarrassed and completely eviscerated by our head coach in front of the entire team.

(From me: And yet we’ve never heard Geno ever put another player in the doghouse such as Tina Charles etc and throw players out like Sue Bird etc, right (sarcasm)? When Sue Bird says Geno has a “formula how he coaches” – we should change that philosophy for the players YOU don’t want to get criticized and post out some innuendo that probably never happened?)

And here’s another:

Unless one of the coaches writes a book later and details this, we'll never know.
His fault, her fault, nobody's fault.

Fault???? What are you talking about?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You’ve got to be kidding????? A player wins two titles as an important cog. Is regarded by most as the greatest defensive player in UCONN’s History. Gets picked in the 1st round in the WNBA draft and YOU suggest there is “fault?” IMO THAT is lunacy.

Anyhow- I find it hard to believe you don’t believe much of what you said above which is why in general I referred to your initial post as “ridiculous” with that 1st italicized sentence I mentioned previously. IMO you’re trying to find ghosts that just don’t exist.

2-- She said all the right things in interviews, but I'm still not so sure she was content to be there.

As stated - I think you’re desperately seeking ghosts that just don’t exist in the area you seek.


3--- You spoke of yourself as a former coach therefore you can expect criticism too, right? I was listening to Dom Perno slow down the game vs St Johns when Jimmy Foster and Tony Hanson were playing great and UCONN had a big lead only to blow it late because they slowed game down. I watched Guy Lewis in NCAA finals slow down the game allowing Jimmy V's NC State Wolfpack to come from behind and win. IMO both times the coach's "outthought" themselves. IMO YOU are doing the same here. Way way way too much.

I’m done with this too with you. It is just my opinion. And btw I didn't like how for example Geno treated Tina Charles early. But as I said before what Sue Bird says "he has a formula" and it worked with Tina and it worked with Stokes along with many, many, many, many others.

 

[OldAlum]

Before and at the beginning of last season, Geno talked Kiah up big time! I recall him talking about her shooting so well with her mid-range jumper. And of course, he had her starting. So hard for me to see him not believing in her.

But she was fabulous defensively coming off the bench. And I recall Geno commenting again about wishing she would be more offensive-minded but praising her defensive skills (I think this was after she was put back in the game to get another basket for her triple double).

Maybe some time in Korea with a team that really needs offense from her will bring that out in her. Or maybe she will just bloom later offensively. Or, perhaps, she will be a more developed but similar version of the UConn Kiah we all admired. Time will tell.

 

[Carnac]

Carmac – I have to respond. The more you speak the more I’m stunned.

1--- Later in your post you say - It does happen. It only comes to light if someone reports it. I'm NOT saying this happened between Geno and Kiah.

Yet before that you lay out innuendo after innuendo that something was happening. Such as the below shows. IMO you’re just making this stuff between her and Geno. Above you say “you aren’t saying . . . “ YET “you feel a need to say it.”

In Kiah's case, unless we hear from him and her in detail what really happened, we'll never really know. That ship has sailed, and both have moved on. Neither of them is going to stir up those issues again for public consumption.

Maybe his approach (in her case) was not appropriate, or maybe he just could not connect with her. coaches lose players all the time. Why do you think they transfer?.

From me: Not appropriate? You mean how Geno helped Kiah get drafted in the 1st round?

I witnessed a teammate (in college) get personally attacked, embarrassed and completely eviscerated by our head coach in front of the entire team.

(From me: And yet we’ve never heard Geno ever put another player in the doghouse such as Tina Charles etc and throw players out like Sue Bird etc, right (sarcasm)? When Sue Bird says Geno has a “formula how he coaches” – we should change that philosophy for the players YOU don’t want to get criticized and post out some innuendo that probably never happened?)

And here’s another:

Unless one of the coaches writes a book later and details this, we'll never know.
His fault, her fault, nobody's fault.

Fault???? What are you talking about?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You’ve got to be kidding????? A player wins two titles as an important cog. Is regarded by most as the greatest defensive player in UCONN’s History. Gets picked in the 1st round in the WNBA draft and YOU suggest there is “fault?” IMO THAT is lunacy.

Anyhow- I find it hard to believe you don’t believe much of what you said above which is why in general I referred to your initial post as “ridiculous” with that 1st italicized sentence I mentioned previously. IMO you’re trying to find ghosts that just don’t exist.

2-- She said all the right things in interviews, but I'm still not so sure she was content to be there.

As stated - I think you’re desperately seeking ghosts that just don’t exist in the area you seek.


3--- You spoke of yourself as a former coach therefore you can expect criticism too, right? I was listening to Dom Perno slow down the game vs St Johns when Jimmy Foster and Tony Hanson were playing great and UCONN had a big lead only to blow it late because they slowed game down. I watched Guy Lewis in NCAA finals slow down the game allowing Jimmy V's NC State Wolfpack to come from behind and win. IMO both times the coach's "outthought" themselves. IMO YOU are doing the same here. Way way way too much.

I’m done with this too with you. It is just my opinion. And btw I didn't like how for example Geno treated Tina Charles early. But as I said before what Sue Bird says "he has a formula" and it worked with Tina and it worked with Stokes along with many, many, many, many others.

You're done with me, fine. Again, the needle didn't move. So I shouldn't hear from you again. Hundreds of posters read my comment. You're the only one that came unglued. I've said all I'm going to say about this. I've moved on. We disagree on multiple fronts, I see it one way, you see it another. I'll leave it at that. Put me on "ignore", then you won't have to read any of my comments any more.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Before and at the beginning of last season, Geno talked Kiah up big time! I recall him talking about her shooting so well with her mid-range jumper. And of course, he had her starting. So hard for me to see him not believing in her.

But she was fabulous defensively coming off the bench. And I recall Geno commenting again about wishing she would be more offensive-minded but praising her defensive skills (I think this was after she was put back in the game to get another basket for her triple double).

Maybe some time in Korea with a team that really needs offense from her will bring that out in her. Or maybe she will just bloom later offensively. Or, perhaps, she will be a more developed but similar version of the UConn Kiah we all admired. Time will tell.

Yeah, every coach in the country would have been salivating to have a Kiah coming off the bench to send the opposition's offense back into the Dark Ages. When Geno stops wishing that a player could give a little more of this or a little more of that, you know it's time for that player to transfer to another this-or-that college.