Karma: no Big 12 team in top 15 for 1st time since Big 8/SWC merger

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Even when Temple's BE associate status ended, hadn't they been given a few years to achieve defined performance records (W-L) and failed?

 

[BlueandOG]

Here's the pickle the B12 is in:

The logical adds for them are to go to 14 with UConn, Cincy, USF, UCF. Then they get into big markets (New England/New York, Ohio, Florida) and football recruiting territories. They also weaken the SEC and especially ACC in Florida. They do to the ACC and SEC -- diluting their hold on their biggest market and best recruiting territory -- what the SEC has done to the B12.

The challenge for them is: (1) ESPN absolutely hates that idea -- Florida is their gold mine and they have invested tremendously in the ACC which depends on Florida State remaining a flagship football program and SEC which depends on U Florida and Florida's cable market. Dilution of Florida would likely lead to retaliation, e.g. ESPN declining to bid on the B12's next contract. (2) Texas with its Longhorn Network is more loyal to ESPN than the B12. If the B12 crosses ESPN, Texas leaves for a Notre Dame type deal with the ACC, and B12 now has no presence at all in south Texas and is an AAC level conference, or only slightly above.

So ESPN has excluded Florida, and probably doesn't like losing UConn either but that is less bad because it only threatens BC, Syracuse, and Rutgers who don't draw much anyway. For ESPN Cincy to B12 might even be a positive as it may dilute B10's Ohio hold.

As a result, I've been predicting for a long time that UConn and Cincy going to 12 are the likely adds, and then when that proves inadequate and Texas leaves in 2024, either they add from (a) the Houston and BYU pool, seeking largest existing fanbases and consolidating a Texas presence, or (b) UCF/USF, taking it to ESPN with Fox's backing.

PJ, I don't know a thing about you, but I think I love you. Keep preaching!

 

[Kolumbo]

Agreed, definitely not analogous at all, just using it as an example of a football conference that has dumped a program before.

Is there actual precedence for a conference dumping an all-sports member? Tulane and Georgia Tech voluntarily left the SEC and South Carolina voluntarily left the ACC, but I can't think of an example of an all-sports member being dumped by a prominent conference.

No precedent but if it were to ever happen, one program sticks out like a soRe thUmb.

 

[SubbaBub]

It means they need a 13th game to break ties with other one loss teams.

 

[huskymedic]

Even when Temple's BE associate status ended, hadn't they been given a few years to achieve defined performance records (W-L) and failed?

They were whacked primarily for lack of attendance, lack of institutional commitment (facilities) and failure to follow through on non-conference scheduling benchmarks.

 

[MattMang23]

No precedent but if it were to ever happen, one program sticks out like a soRe thUmb.

There could Be another sChool on that list.

 

[whaler11]

Fox caused the Big 12's demise.

CR post of the year.

Being on Fox hurts recruiting. Big 12's recruiting has stunk for a few years. Big 12 now stinks.

It's crazy how you can connect the dots.

Dig your heels in as much as you like with regards to being on ESPN.

The AAC is actually fairly decent and the Big 12 stinks out loud. What might the difference be?

 

[jayfromfla]

Temple dumped from be to make room for uconn.

 

[huskymedic]

Temple dumped from be to make room for uconn.

That's not true. UConn accepted Big East offer to join in football in 1997. Temple's was voted out in 2001 and played a few more seasons (2004 last year?)

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Texas A&M leaving also opened up the fertile Texas recruiting to the SEC
Just like New Jersey and Penn will open up for the Big 12 if they take UConn.

 

[Marty Jackson]

I do not think it has happened and I don't think I will live to see it happen. It's much more likely that the cream of various conferences leave and form their own conference than that they throw the non-performers out.

it's sort of the same thing isn't it... Maybe a different path, but it gets to the same end-game.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Is there actual precedence for a conference dumping an all-sports member? Tulane and Georgia Tech voluntarily left the SEC and South Carolina voluntarily left the ACC, but I can't think of an example of an all-sports member being dumped by a prominent conference.

The closest to this happening was when the Pacific Coast Conference disbanded and reformed as the Pac 8, adding Oregon St & Washington St while leaving Idaho & Montana behind.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The closest to this happening was when the Pacific Coast Conference disbanded and reformed as the Pac 8, adding Oregon St & Washington St while leaving Idaho & Montana behind.

ESPN told the old Southwest Conference to Dump,Rice, SMU, TCU,and Houston when they merged with the old Big 8 to form the Big 12

 

[RedStickHusky]

No precedent but if it were to ever happen, one program sticks out like a soRe thUmb.

There could Be another sChool on that list.

I See what yoU guys are doing there.

 

[MattMang23]

ESPN told the old Southwest Conference to Dump,Rice, SMU, TCU,and Houston when they merged with the old Big 8 to form the Big 12

I think they told them to dump Baylor not Houston until politics stepped in.

 

[Pudge]

The closest to this happening was when the Pacific Coast Conference disbanded and reformed as the Pac 8, adding Oregon St & Washington St while leaving Idaho & Montana behind.

Not quite true.

Oregon State was a founding member; Washington State & Stanford & USC was added only a few years later; and UCLA actually was the last Pac member to come on in 1939. UCLA is the youngest school with little history before 1930. In the last 50's, ONLY 5 of these schools combined going forward. Idaho & Montana were out; but so were Oregon State & Oregon & Washington State only to all join back up in 1968. Arizona & ASU joined in 1978. Of course, Colorado & Utah in 2011.

We might see some forced out ... actually the BIG Valued pieces reform. What sense does it make for Rutgers to make over $40m or Wake/BC/Cuse at $28 or something ... and someone can grab AAU for less amount for 12 Universities?

Arbitrage is something I think about. You have a market ... and there are obvious imbalance that (with new content distribution) will allow disintermediation.

 

[itgoeslike]

I do not think it has happened and I don't think I will live to see it happen. It's much more likely that the cream of various conferences leave and form their own conference than that they throw the non-performers out.

You may want to check with Virginia Tech. . .

Sports | Metro Schools Trying To Kick Out Virginia To Form Superconference | Seattle Times Newspaper

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Being on Fox hurts recruiting. Big 12's recruiting has stunk for a few years. Big 12 now stinks.

It's crazy how you can connect the dots.

Dig your heels in as much as you like with regards to being on ESPN.

The AAC is actually fairly decent and the Big 12 stinks out loud. What might the difference be?

The ACC's recruiting as a whole has been bad for years and they are on ESPN. How does that fit in your theory?

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Houston is cute as this decade's BSU but outside of that what makes you want them in your conference?

 

[Nostical]

UT will just hire Herman and the whole thing will be history.

That's exactly what my UT buddy thinks. He texted me from the Cal game that C. Strong has to go. Lord knows they have a quick trigger finger down there--a big gun--and lots of booster money for buyouts.

 

[Vowelguy]

Sort of related here cause there is some dead weight in the Big 12 at the bottom, but I wonder if we'll ever see a P5 conference expel a school again? The Big East dumped Temple cause of their on-field performance and perceived lack of investment in their football program and other schools through the years have voluntarily left P5 conferences (Tulane left the SEC in the 60s because of a concern that they were losing academically at the expense of football), but I wonder if we'll ever see that again.

There is some serious dead weight in the P5 (BC and Wake in ACC, Purdue in the B1G for example). Wonder if any other school will ever get its walking papers.

The Big East did not kick Temple out.
Temple was an affiliate. The Big East chose to not renew its relationship. That is a huge difference from kicking out a full member/partner in the conference.

Has never happened (at least for 50+ years). Never will.

 

[NYUConn]

The Big East did not kick Temple out.
Temple was an affiliate. The Big East chose to not renew its relationship. That is a huge difference from kicking out a full member/partner in the conference.

Has never happened (at least for 50+ years). Never will.

Wait, are you sure about this?

 

[jayfromfla]

That's not true. UConn accepted Big East offer to join in football in 1997. Temple's was voted out in 2001 and played a few more seasons (2004 last year?)

The vote to add several football teams was agreed by Uconn with the caveat to be included if Uconn wished to move to FBS. 1997 Uconn said yes but non football teams agreed the BE football would not exceed 8 teams. Therefore when Uconn said yes the action against the only team in the BE football and not in the other sports became expendable. hense the "throw out" of Temple

 

[TRest]

The vote to add several football teams was agreed by Uconn with the caveat to be included if Uconn wished to move to FBS. 1997 Uconn said yes but non football teams agreed the BE football would not exceed 8 teams. Therefore when Uconn said yes the action against the only team in the BE football and not in the other sports became expendable. hense the "throw out" of Temple

Uh, no. UConn was already an original member and becoming a football member didn't require an additional school being added to the mix. Nice theory though.

 

[jayfromfla]

The agreement was the BE football would be limited to 8 eight teams. When uconn said it would join. A team had to go. That started the don't renew fire eliniminate one team and that was temple. Temple was dumped period. The bob only schools did not want this football and. History proved them right