Hockey East to stay at 11 teams in 2017-18 (for now) | The Boneyard

Hockey East to stay at 11 teams in 2017-18 (for now)

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Mike McMahon ‏@MikeMcMahonCHN 9m9 minutes ago
Hockey East has plans in place for an 11-team schedule beginning in 2017-18. Nothing final. Will blog about it later. Watch out for it.

QU has always seemed like the most logical and only real strong candidate to replace ND, but there'd been some information out there that they want to stay in the ECAC. It would seem this means QU has balked at joining Hockey East and the league isn't ready to hand out spot number 12 to one of Holy Cross, Bentley, or RPI. 11 teams is a nightmare from a scheduling perspective, it forces either a woefully short 20-game conference schedule or an imbalanced conference schedule, but in the long run it's better to not give an invite to a weak program.
 
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Mike McMahon ‏@MikeMcMahonCHN 9m9 minutes ago
Hockey East has plans in place for an 11-team schedule beginning in 2017-18. Nothing final. Will blog about it later. Watch out for it.

QU has always seemed like the most logical and only real strong candidate to replace ND, but there'd been some information out there that they want to stay in the ECAC. It would seem this means QU has balked at joining Hockey East and the league isn't ready to hand out spot number 12 to one of Holy Cross, Bentley, or RPI. 11 teams is a nightmare from a scheduling perspective, it forces either a woefully short 20-game conference schedule or an imbalanced conference schedule, but in the long run it's better to not give an invite to a weak program.
IMHO...and using complete honesty here...the state of UConn's program played in to not inviting someone like HC or Bentley. Cav has some work to do and he is getting it done piece by piece.
 
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Had QU beaten Yale in 2013 in the final (or UND this past season; better performance in that game anyway), they'd probably consider then.
 
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Had QU beaten Yale in 2013 in the final (or UND this past season; better performance in that game anyway), they'd probably consider then.
From what I understand QU not joining has more to do with their end than HE's. It seems HE would be on board with it, but QU is happy where they are and supposedly not interested in making the jump. TV contracts aren't much of a thing in hockey, so the financial incentive from TV isn't quite there. There's a sentiment among some within HE circles that QU prefers to stay in a league they can continually dominate as opposed to move up and potentially get lost in the shuffle a bit. The flip side of that is they're going to always be at the behest of the Ivies in that league from a decision making and scheduling standpoint. More power to them if they want to keep traveling every year to play Colgate, Clarkson, and St. Lawrence.
 
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From what I understand QU not joining has more to do with their end than HE's. It seems HE would be on board with it, but QU is happy where they are and supposedly not interested in making the jump. TV contracts aren't much of a thing in hockey, so the financial incentive from TV isn't quite there. There's a sentiment among some within HE circles that QU prefers to stay in a league they can continually dominate as opposed to move up and potentially get lost in the shuffle a bit. The flip side of that is they're going to always be at the behest of the Ivies in that league from a decision making and scheduling standpoint. More power to them if they want to keep traveling every year to play Colgate, Clarkson, and St. Lawrence.
Easier road to a championship and I don't blame them. The ECAC is not a garbage conference. Like I said, had they already won a championship or two, that would allow them to work with those atop the HE. Joining the HE with zero championships is tough.
 
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I had been hearing Holy Cross so I guess that isn't happening at least for a while. Don't think the league needs Merrimack Jr.
 
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I had been hearing Holy Cross so I guess that isn't happening at least for a while. Don't think the league needs Merrimack Jr.
Yeah that name had been floated, and it'd be an awful idea. They had posed the idea of playing all games at the DCU Center as a way to make up the capacity gap. The problem is the DCU Center is an utter dump and Holy Cross has a very, very, very small fanbase so it'd be playing in front of 12-13K empty seats every night.
 
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Yeah that name had been floated, and it'd be an awful idea. They had posed the idea of playing all games at the DCU Center as a way to make up the capacity gap. The problem is the DCU Center is an utter dump and Holy Cross has a very, very, very small fanbase so it'd be playing in front of 12-13K empty seats every night.

So it be like watching a BC football or basketball game?
 
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From what I understand QU not joining has more to do with their end than HE's. It seems HE would be on board with it, but QU is happy where they are and supposedly not interested in making the jump. TV contracts aren't much of a thing in hockey, so the financial incentive from TV isn't quite there. There's a sentiment among some within HE circles that QU prefers to stay in a league they can continually dominate as opposed to move up and potentially get lost in the shuffle a bit. The flip side of that is they're going to always be at the behest of the Ivies in that league from a decision making and scheduling standpoint. More power to them if they want to keep traveling every year to play Colgate, Clarkson, and St. Lawrence.

Why the shot at Colgate, Clarkson and SLU? Each has a long, proud history in college hockey and has played in at least one Frozen Four final. It's certainly no worse than travelling to play Merrimack, Maine (ladies and gentlemen, Paul Kariya is not walking through that door), UMass, UVM or others outside the higher talent Boston-based core of Hockey East. Until UConn establishes itself as a legitimate contender, with a legitimate on-campus facility, Husky fans don't really have a basis for acting condescending toward such programs.

BTW, Non-Ivy ECAC teams play the full 34 game schedule allowed by the NCAA (versus 29 for the Ivies). So, I'm not sure what you mean by their being at the behest of the Ivies from a scheduling standpoint. As for decision-making, what decisions have been made to the detriment of QU?
 
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Why the shot at Colgate, Clarkson and SLU? Each has a long, proud history in college hockey and has played in at least one Frozen Four final. It's certainly no worse than travelling to play Merrimack, Maine (ladies and gentlemen, Paul Kariya is not walking through that door), UMass, UVM or others outside the higher talent Boston-based core of Hockey East. Until UConn establishes itself as a legitimate contender, with a legitimate on-campus facility, Husky fans don't really have a basis for acting condescending toward such programs.

BTW, Non-Ivy ECAC teams play the full 34 game schedule allowed by the NCAA (versus 29 for the Ivies). So, I'm not sure what you mean by their being at the behest of the Ivies from a scheduling standpoint. As for decision-making, what decisions have been made to the detriment of QU?
Because Colgate, Clarkson, SLU, and a bunch of the other Ivies outside of Cornell and to a lesser extent Harvard and Yale are very weak hockey schools with at best spotty history. I wouldn't say at all that Clarkson, SLU, and Colgate have long and proud histories in the sport. Zero titles, a combined four Frozen Fours in the last 45 years, zero Hobey winners, three combined ECAC Tournament titles since 2000 - these are at best mediocre programs. Also, he non-Ivies are small D2/D3 schools with small athletic budgets, small fanbases, and little exposure to NHL scouts.

They're at the behest of the Ivies from a scheduling perspective because half of the league, which holds nearly all of the institutional pull in the conference, doesn't start their schedule for 3-4 weeks after everyone else in the country does, thus they're forced to frontload their OOC schedule. Across the league, there are a grand total of two ECAC conference games in the month of October. It's doable, but annoying from a scheduling perspective.

Yes, traveling to Maine and UVM can be long, but you'll find a hell of a lot more NHL scouts at Alfond, the Gut, or even Lawler than you will in Potsdam, Canton, or Hamilton. That's what the recruits care about most, especially since most ECAC players are undrafted.

The point is, if you're QU and you want to elevate your program to be consistently recruiting and competing against the elite programs, staying in ECAC is not the best path to that. It's a good league that's found some success of late for sure, but Hockey East is undoubtedly a superior league and would afford QU more opportunities to continue to grow their program. And while I root for UConn in all other sports, my college hockey allegiance lies on Comm Ave, so my guys have nearly as many banners as the entire ECAC. Even still, UConn fans shouldn't have any reservation arguing the superiority of their league and its members, this ain't the AAC and UConn has performed well so far. There's no reason not to be proud of the league's accomplishments and UConn's record against the league's elite teams.
 
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That's the typical Comm Ave distorted view of the world. Hockey East has been dominated by the 2 Comm Ave teams, BU and BC, with those two respresenting 60+% of HE champs and Frozen Four participants. Of course, others rise up based primarily on the quality of their coach or a star player but a fall is inevitable. There was the Shawn Walsh era in Maine, now we are seeing the Norm Bazin era at UM-L (anyone think that's a big-time hockey school once Bazin moves on?) and the Nate Leaman era at PC (after well over a decade of bad hockey at Schneider), etc., but year to year it's been the Comm Ave schools dominating the top with someone else joining for a while. The rest of the league has played mostly for scraps. UNH is probably the closest to a consistently competitive non-Comm Ave school, and even they've only won two league titles during over 30+ years and have fallen off a recruiting cliff in recent years. Merrimack rose up for a couple of seasons but they are back to being with the conference dregs as God intended. Last year, HE was 6 very good teams (including ND) combined with 6 bad ones. It was as if an insurance company was red-lining the good and bad districts in Hockey East.

Scouts? Sure they are plentiful at the Comm Ave games, but there aren't many at the typical UVM-UMass game, certainly no more than you'd find at many ECAC games, and fewer than you'd likely find at a typical Harvard, Yale or even QU game. The scouts go where the talent resides. Since they are drafting 18 year olds the majority of draft scouting is at junior games anyway. They go to college games to see the literal handful of top prospects that started college young (e.g. McAvoy, Thompson, etc.), another handful of late round prospects that slipped through during their draft year, and, mostly, potential free agent pickups. Most drafted college players were actually drafted in junior hockey and scouts from their teams will also catch some games to track them through college to determine when, or if, they should be signed.

But what about the number of drafted players? The overwhelming majority of HE players that aren't playing home games at Agganis or Conte are undrafted. UM-L has been one of the best teams in the league in recent years - they had one draftee on their roster last year. Northeastern won the league title with a handful of draftees, mostly late round guys. Counting draftees, beyond the first and second round guys that overwhelmingly go to the same couple of HE schools, doesn't guarantee much about a team's results. In fact, building a roster around 4 year guys (rather than the 1-3 typical of high draft picks) is the better path for those schools not fortunate enough to be on Comm Ave.

Front-loaded OOC schedule? Only two ECAC league games in October? Who cares? Most schools front load their OOC schedule. BU opens with 2 exhibitions, followed by 5 non-league games. Wow! They don't open their league schedule until November (a two game series with NU) and then turn around and play another non-league series with Michigan. But wait, the other HE schools must play a massive number of October league games, right? Wrong. The entire HE plays a whopping 8 league games in October, all in the last 6 days of the month. Talk about a useless point.

It's all distorted by one's view from the Hub and a need to claim some form of universal superiority that really doesn't exist. If you only take the seats at the top of the mountain, I guess it's easy to think that everyone lives in the clouds. The bottom line is that it's not clear that joining HE is better for QU's program growth. They've done pretty damn well without the benefit of HE affiliation. Furthermore, joining HE would be no guarantee of on-going success - after all, no HE team has come consistently close to the Comm Ave pair over its 30+ year history (if anyone, UConn probably has the best chance to make it a Big 3). In the meantime, QU, the educational institution, certainly likes being associated with Yale and its brethren. So, it may not be a pure hockey decision anyway.
 
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Because Colgate, Clarkson, SLU, and a bunch of the other Ivies outside of Cornell and to a lesser extent Harvard and Yale are very weak hockey schools with at best spotty history. I wouldn't say at all that Clarkson, SLU, and Colgate have long and proud histories in the sport. Zero titles, a combined four Frozen Fours in the last 45 years, zero Hobey winners, three combined ECAC Tournament titles since 2000 - these are at best mediocre programs. Also, he non-Ivies are small D2/D3 schools with small athletic budgets, small fanbases, and little exposure to NHL scouts.

Clarkson lacks a "long and rich winning tradition in ice hockey" in the same way that the Boston Red Sox lacked a championship history from 1918 to 2004. They're probably the best performing college hockey program out there that has never won a championship.

Most years before the 1980s, Clarkson had excellent hockey teams, but was constrained by the fact that only two Eastern teams ever got an invite to the NCAA tournament. And, well, , if you had a good team but were third in the ECAC? Sucks to be you. That was Clarkson a lot of years. Much like the Red Sox consistently finished second throughout most of their MLB history...to the Yankees.

Clarkson was the first program in NCAA hockey history to reach 1000 wins. That's not nothing. They still rank very highly in number of lifetime program wins (though the program has fallen back considerably, and numerous programs have surpassed them; they can, however, still count over 1400 to their credit, and a lifetime winning percentage still over 60%).
 
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Clarkson lacks a "long and rich winning tradition in ice hockey" in the same way that the Boston Red Sox lacked a championship history from 1918 to 2004. They're probably the best performing college hockey program out there that has never won a championship.

Most years before the 1980s, Clarkson had excellent hockey teams, but was constrained by the fact that only two Eastern teams eerver got an invite to the NCAA tournament. And, well, , if you had a good team but were third in the ECAC? Sucks to be you. That was Clarkson a lot of years. Much like the Red Sox consistently finished second throughout most of their MLB history...to the Yankees.

Clarkson was the first program in NCAA hockey history to reach 1000 wins. That's not nothing. They still rank very highly in number of lifetime program wins (though the program has fallen back considerably, and numerous programs have surpassed them; they can, however, still count over 1400 to their credit, and a lifetime winning percentage still over 60%).

I actually got into Clarkson. Took a drive up in the summer straight through the Adirondacks. Beautiful drive. Could have played DIII soccer there; but, there are no scholarships in DIII soccer and UConn was a heck of a lot cheaper for a engineering or business major.
 

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College hockey is rapidly leaving small institutions like Clarkson behind. The TV money from football is being pushed down the ladder. Clarksons are the past. QU, UConn, ASU, Penn State, et. al. are the future.
 
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College hockey is rapidly leaving small institutions like Clarkson behind. The TV money from football is being pushed down the ladder. Clarksons are the past. QU, UConn, ASU, Penn State, et. al. are the future.

In your scenario, how would QU, which doesn't even have a football team (and only has about 6,000 students), be the future? I assume then that you believe that HE schools such as BU, Providence, Northeastern, Merrimack, UM-L and UVM, that also don't have football teams, are in the past. For that matter, FCS football is a money loser, so New Hampshire and Maine wouldn't have much hope. That leaves, UConn (if it gets into the Big 12) and BC as the dominant teams in HE for the future.

Then again, the last six NCAA champs are: Minnesota - Duluth, BC, Yale, Union, Providence and, most recently, North Dakota. That's D-II, FBS, FCS (but barred from playoffs), D-III, no football and FCS. There's certainly no pattern there to support your position.
 

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In your scenario, how would QU, which doesn't even have a football team (and only has about 6,000 students), be the future?

Because they are in the midst of a huge institutional funding push to expand the university, especially the athletic department. They are very serious about competing at the highest level of mid-majordom.

Then again, the last six NCAA champs are: Minnesota - Duluth, BC, Yale, Union, Providence and, most recently, North Dakota. That's D-II, FBS, FCS (but barred from playoffs), D-III, no football and FCS. There's certainly no pattern there to support your position.

The pattern is the all-around DI programs are throwing major cash at their programs and facilities. Penn State went from nothing to nearly making the NCAAs in less than 5 years. Arizona State has a better home TV deal (P12 Network) than anyone in Hockey East.

Within your own list are three programs, UMD Providence and Yale, who recently made serious facility upgrades. North Dakota recently elevated to full-DI membership. These are not coincidences.

College hockey is an arms race, like every other college sport. Cheel, Starr, Houston, Appleton and Achillies are old rinks that don't have amenities or excite recruits. All of them seat less than 5k. They are not conducive to producing consistent championship programs (full marks to Union for the amazing job they did recently).
 
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Quinnipiac? Football? Challenging at best, especially given Quinnipiac officials and students alike have apparently PO'd locals and town officials so much they can't even get zoning approvals to expand existing sports' practice fields.
 
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If that's the case, then QU better stay in the ECAC (which would be the hockey equivalent of "mid-majordom"). Their endowment is smaller than Union's, which has 1/3 as many students and roughly half that of RPI, which is slightly smaller than QU. Colgate's endowment is more than 2X QU's and it has less than 1/2 as many students. QU's new rink (which I'm sure they'll be paying off for many years) still seats less than 4K, so logically they won't be able to compete with the big boys.

In fact, the logical end game of your argument is that BU, BC and UConn should join ND in the B1G and the rest of the schools can just play club hockey. The remainder of HE, the NCHC, WCHA and ECAC are mainly composed of small schools with limited resources that will apparently fade into oblivion. If anything, the ECAC might ultimately be the second most viable because Ivy League endowments mean that they can support some athletic department money sinks that others cannot.
 
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Quinnipiac? Football? Challenging at best, especially given Quinnipiac officials and students alike have apparently PO'd locals and town officials so much they can't even get zoning approvals to expand existing sports' practice fields.
QU students angered Hamden residents?! That's funny.
 
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In your scenario, how would QU, which doesn't even have a football team (and only has about 6,000 students), be the future? I assume then that you believe that HE schools such as BU, Providence, Northeastern, Merrimack, UM-L and UVM, that also don't have football teams, are in the past. For that matter, FCS football is a money loser, so New Hampshire and Maine wouldn't have much hope. That leaves, UConn (if it gets into the Big 12) and BC as the dominant teams in HE for the future.

Then again, the last six NCAA champs are: Minnesota - Duluth, BC, Yale, Union, Providence and, most recently, North Dakota. That's D-II, FBS, FCS (but barred from playoffs), D-III, no football and FCS. There's certainly no pattern there to support your position.
That's not the argument he's making, which he articulated later. College hockey is indeed becoming an arms race, mostly as a way to compete with the Canadian leagues - which makes the comparisons to football apples and oranges. The Clarksons, St. Lawrences, Lake States, Michigan Techs, and other small D3 schools are in danger of being left behind because they have small athletic budgets, small fan bases, and are stuck in average or weak leagues. BU, PC, NU, Lowell, and to a lesser extent UVM are not at all in danger of being left behind because they all have larger athletic budgets, have or will be investing in their facilities significantly, and are securely in a strong league - the things necessary to be able to recruit against the major junior leagues. Merrimack is in mild danger of being left behind, but not for a while as them being a Hockey East member can sustain the program for a while. Out west, Lake State and Michigan Tech are already left behind, and they have six titles between them. That's because they didn't invest in their facilities through the years, started falling behind competitively as other programs made improvements, and ended up getting left behind in the western conference shuffling. Not to mention both of their locations don't help much. Maine is in a similar danger, though not quite yet from a conference perspective. Colgate is an exception to this as they're opening a brand new arena this year, we'll see if that's enough to move them up on the totem pole.

Clarkson's good history and success almost entirely occurred before 1970, when the sport was vastly different and the NCAA tournament consisted of four teams. They've made a grand total of one Frozen Four since the tournament expanded beyond four. The strongest and most consistent program to not win a title is inarguably UNH. They've produced the most NHL talent, consistently made and had success in the NCAA tournament, have won conference regular season and tournament championships, and recruited (until recently) at a very high level.

The point is, QU isn't in danger of falling behind like a Lake State, Clarkson, or Michigan Tech. They have solid facilities, are geographically situated well, and have invested some dollars into their program. Where they could potentially be in danger is by staying in the middling ECAC, they open the door for programs with built-in resources like UConn, UMass, and Lowell to make significant improvements to their programs, compete in the top eastern league, and move ahead of them in the recruiting and competitive pecking order down the line. QU wouldn't fall into irrelevancy in this scenario, they'd fall back to being a middle of the road program while the UConns and UMasses would have the door wide open to be competing at the level QU is at right now. If UConn and UMass both build new facilities, are able to start recruiting consistently on a high level, start competing consistently against the elite programs, and start having NCAA Tournament and Hockey East success, that very well could put QU in a tough spot down the road where those schools now have huge advantages over them and a spot in HE might no longer be available.

tl;dr - QU staying in a middling league strongly influenced by Ivies opens the door for other schools such as UConn to pass them down the road. By not moving forward, they risk falling from upper middle/elite status down the road. And Clarkson Still Sucks.
 
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If the big boys start throwing around their money, being in HE is not going to keep non-major schools competitive. HE is not the Big 10, where every full member, regardless of how pathetic, is going to be bringing in $50M that can carry an entire athletic department. In fact, HE league revenues are not a significant part of each school's budget. The TV deals are generally partnerships in which little is promised in terms of payments in exchange for visibility. If you think the AAC's deals are low, try any hockey deal with the possible exception of ND's deal with NBCSN (that is, obviously, part of a much bigger NBC-ND relationship). With BC in the ACC and, hopefully, UConn in the Big 12, they will have athletic departments nearly an order of magnitude bigger than anyone else in the league. Perhaps only BU, which is a large school with a very large hockey following (they are really Boston's college team), could compete. Even schools like Providence, with its BE money, wouldn't be able to keep up. They did a nice job with Schneider, but all it did was take a sub-par rink and turn it into an acceptable one (roughly equivalent to Clarkson's Cheel Arena). UM-L was gifted an arena they never could have built on their own, but they are a school that wasn't particularly successful in D-III and D-II athletics (outside of hockey) and is now trying to run itself as mid-major D-I. Increased expenses with not that big a revenue gain isn't a formula for success. I could go on but the analysis would be similar. The "bigger athletic budgets" of non-premiere HE schools are still chump change in the overall picture of big-time athletics. Those budgets are also smaller than most of the Ivies, with their deep pockets from hundreds of years of endowment growth.
 
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