Brewer to UCLA

[Vowelguy]

Why say that?

I can't say it is or it isn't but I don't see reasons why it is not potentially true either. Since we don't know if her major it may have changed directions or it may be a program that will require five years to complete as many do today. We simply have no way of knowing.

My point was simply that an explanation of academics can involve much more than grades themselves. Given she is moving up in academic quality of the school it is unlikely that grades were the issue.

We do know that she was no longer on the team, instead of wasting time she looked for new opportunities as soon as possible.

She's at the beginning of her senior year. I maintain that it is highly unlikely that she would discover that her school did not have the course of study she was hoping for. There might be a small chance of that at the end of the last school year, but no way she shows up in August and says "oh, these aren't the right courses, I'm going somewhere else."

 

[Icebear]

She's at the beginning of her senior year. I maintain that it is highly unlikely that she would discover that her school did not have the course of study she was hoping for. There might be a small chance of that at the end of the last school year, but no way she shows up in August and says "oh, these aren't the right courses, I'm going somewhere else."

True but without the connection to the team she may well have been free to pursue something she would not have done otherwise.

 

[tnvolfan65]

i agree that academics probably had zero to do with it. but i'm not sure that all the fault lies with Brewer, if that is what you are saying. something is going on there and at this point the casual fan really has no idea.

Cain opted to forgo her senior year of playing (said it was due to injuries). Avant left as well, apparently feeling she was recruited over with Massengale coming. now Brewer, the last pure center they have decides to leave midway into her senior year. even if her fitness wasn't 100% and her commitment to conditioning left something to be desired, it would be like if we lost Kiah and Stef to transfers and Heather suddenly decided to leave now as well.

i'm not saying there wasn't some kind of commitment issue - i have no idea, but when you have that many kids leaving the program in such a short period of time, it appears that something else is going on.

Where do you get this stuff? Avant didn't leave because she was recruited over. She left because she wanted to focus on academics and becoming a doctor. Pat got "permission" for lack of a better word from both Avant and Andraya Carter before she even offered Massengale.

 

[Vowelguy]

True but without the connection to the team she may well have been free to pursue something she would not have done otherwise.

Circular logic. Your academic reason comes only AFTER she's left the team. Thus it was not the cause of her leaving the team, which is the whole point of this thread.

 

[EricLA]

Where do you get this stuff? Avant didn't leave because she was recruited over. She left because she wanted to focus on academics and becoming a doctor. Pat got "permission" for lack of a better word from both Avant and Andraya Carter before she even offered Massengale.

what stuff were u referring to? were you in the room when Pat had her "conversation" with Lauren? i didn't think so.

i'll admit i have no idea if Lauren did feel recruited over or not. She apparently told pat she wanted to transfer to a smaller school. you mean to tell me she couldn't maintain high academics and eventually become a doctor while at tennessee? the tennessee pre med program is that intense and time consuming? Georgia Schwiezer, Krystal Thomas, and Allison Bales are 3 women i know were pre-med at Duke, and somehow they made it thru the program, still managing to play hoops, and Tennessee is no Duke. i'm sure there are many others. BTW Elizabeth Williams is the latest Duke player who apparently wants to be a doctor. see? it IS possible!!

my point remains the same. Cain's quitting the program because of her "history of injuries", Avant leaving to go to a "smaller school", and now Brewer leaving for "undisclosed reasons" right before the season, and playing the position tennessee is in most desperate need for bodies is too much smoke for there to be no fire. bottom line, if they all were happy at tennessee, they'd never have quit the program and transferred.

 

[tnvolfan65]

It was reported when Massengale committed to Tennessee. You said apparently she left because she felt recruited over. Apparently from what??

And no one said it wasn't possible for Lauren to play D-1 basketball and become a doctor. I said SHE decided to focus more on becoming a doctor than playing basketball. That was her decision. I can tell you, as a college student, that being in school period is time consuming. Adding a D-1 sport is like adding a full-time job. And the expectations of playing basketball at Tennessee are as high or higher than anywhere in the country. Who are we to judge her for not wanting all of that? If becoming a doctor is more important to her than playing basketball, then more power to her for knowing what she wants and taking action towards that. Did we, as fans, want her to leave? Of course not, but she can do what she wants to do.

And I don't know why you keep offsetting Cain's injuries with quotation marks or parenthesis. She was a day-by-day decision whether or not she could even practice. Do you really need proof that she was injured?? It was well documented.

 

[EricLA]

didja even read my reply? apparently not. oh well. perhaps it was overwhelming for you to consider going to school and playing a college sport, but it wasn't for the 3 pre med folks at Duke i mentioned. not to mention the hundreds if not thousands of kids who do exactly the same thing. many of them have incredibly challenging undergraduate programs and many excel academically as well. anyway, also not to mention the fact that not only was tennessee Lauren's dream school, she committed when she was still in junior high - she loved the program that much. suddenly after one year, it's too much?

if it was just one kid leaving, no biggie. 2 kids... hmmm.... 3 kids in such a short period of time? say what you want, but i've never seen a coincidence like that before at a top program - not ever.

And by the way, no one knew from one day to the next if Brit Hunter could play, and that was pretty well documented too, yet she stuck it out and contributed with everything she could. Morgan Valley had such a severe case of plantars fasciatis that she could barely walk some days, but she stuck it out and gave what she could. so i don't doubt that Cain said she chose her health over basketball. the two examples i provided were of kids who made other choices.

no one but those kids know what is in their hearts. and i'm quite sure what some say in public and what they feel in private are two different things. it's possible that Lauren quit for exactly the reason she said, that Kelly quit for exactly the reason she said, and that Alyssa quit for totally noble reasons. then again, it's possible there is something else going on.

 

[tnvolfan65]

Yes I read your reply. What 3 duke players with pre-med degrees has anything to do with Avant choosing to leave to focus on her career aspirations is beyond me. If your point is it can be done, then that is obvious and i dont need examples to realize that. My point is that she has every right to choose what is best for her. Unlike Walker and EDD here, we're not going to chastise her for her decision. As far as Tennessee being her dream school and her early commitment, this is an example of the risks those commitments come with. At that age she was the number 1 player in her class, but injuries hampered the majority of her high school career as well as her year with Tennessee. Perspectives can change and dreams can change. Especially with teenagers.

Also, as an All-American athlete in highschool I fully understand the decision to stop playing a sport for any sort of reason. My life would be completely different if I had chosen to pursue the opportunities I had to continue my athletic career. I think of this often, and I am confident that I made the best decision for ME at that point in my life, just as I'm sure Avant made what she thought was the best decision for her.

What Hunter making a different decision than Cain has to do with anything is beyond me as well. Cain graduated and decided the toll basketball was playing on her body wasn't worth it. She had graduated as well and decided to move on with her life. Is that really that fishy or controversial to you?

But none of this has anything to do with your original post that flat out lies and evoked my initial response. You keep talking but you've yet to address that.

 

[Phil]

Where do you get this stuff?

When someone makes a decision to choose A over B, it is quite common for decent people to give an answer that downplays less than positive feelings about B. There's a reason the expression "It's not you, it's me" is so omnipresent. I have no doubt it has been used by recruits that don't choose UConn. Does anyone really think Hornbuckle really went to Tennessee because it was too cold in Storrs? Maybe she couldn't stand Geno, or one of her potential teammates. But there's no need to say it, if another answer works as well, and carries less pain.

Lots of people do it, so it is quite normal for people to speculate that the official answer might not be the whole story.

Is it hard to pursue a pre-med course of study while trying to play for one of the most demanding programs in the country?

Absolutely, but I doubt this was unknown to Avant at the time she came to Tennessee.

I don't know for certain what went though her mind as she made her decisions, but I don't think it is going out on a limb to note that of one is one day talked about as the expected starting point guard of the LVs, and then one hears that an incoming frosh has been promised the starting role, that one might begin to assess one's areas of interest with a new mindset.

That's where people get this stuff. Life experiences, and thinking things though clearly.

 

[Justavisitor]

I don't know for certain what went though her mind as she made her decisions, but I don't think it is going out on a limb to note that of one is one day talked about as the expected starting point guard of the LVs, and then one hears that an incoming frosh has been promised the starting role, that one might begin to assess one's areas of interest with a new mindset.

That's where people get this stuff. Life experiences, and thinking things though clearly.

Medical issues also weighed in her decision. Last I heard, she still isn't medically cleared at her new school. It's hard enough to compete at the top programs in the country and even more so when the body is ailing. There's still a very good relationship with TN. Her parents were recently interviewed and stated they plan to attend as many Lady Vol games as possible this season. They're still big fans of the program and Pat.

As for Cain, she's still there and still goes around the program and very much supports the team. Unfortunately, the young lady is tired of the pain and just sick of not being able to play the game to her ability due to the aches and pains. If there were a problem, she wouldn't still be around the program. It was similar to the issues with Cait. Just too much pain.

 

[tnvolfan65]

When someone makes a decision to choose A over B, it is quite common for decent people to give an answer that downplays less than positive feelings about B. There's a reason the expression "It's not you, it's me" is so omnipresent. I have no doubt it has been used by recruits that don't choose UConn. Does anyone really think Hornbuckle really went to Tennessee because it was too cold in Storrs? Maybe she couldn't stand Geno, or one of her potential teammates. But there's no need to say it, if another answer works as well, and carries less pain.

Lots of people do it, so it is quite normal for people to speculate that the official answer might not be the whole story.

Is it hard to pursue a pre-med course of study while trying to play for one of the most demanding programs in the country?

Absolutely, but I doubt this was unknown to Avant at the time she came to Tennessee.

I don't know for certain what went though her mind as she made her decisions, but I don't think it is going out on a limb to note that of one is one day talked about as the expected starting point guard of the LVs, and then one hears that an incoming frosh has been promised the starting role, that one might begin to assess one's areas of interest with a new mindset.

That's where people get this stuff. Life experiences, and thinking things though clearly.

Thinking things through clearly results in spreading a rumor that has no facts or truth to back it up??? Hmm, beats me...

I could have too much fun with this one, but I'll hold my tongue.

 

[JoePgh]

There seems to be a lot of speculation about motives on this thread. As long as we're speculating, why not speculate about chronology, which in Lauren Avant's case may not be what it seemed. Although her decision to leave Tennessee was made public after last season, the circumstantial evidence indicates to me that it was probably known to Lauren and Pat long before that. She was obviously a talented point guard, and Tennessee was undermanned at that position, so why did she play such relatively limited minutes throughout last season?

My hunch is that Lauren realized soon after arriving on campus that she was never going to be able to sustain a commitment both to top-level basketball and to a pre-med curriculum, and told Pat that she had made a mistake and would be leaving at some point. After that, Pat limited her minutes because she was no longer part of the Vols' long-term plans.

The best circumstantial evidence of this is: (a) the sudden change of mind about Ariel Massengale after initially declining to offer her a scholarship -- probably between the initial refusal and the subsequent offer, Pat found out about Lauren's intention to depart; and (b) Pat's TOTALLY uncharacteristic statement during the season that Massengale was already good enough to be the starting point guard at Tennessee. She would say that before ever having observed Massengale against college-level competition in a practice or a scrimmage on campus? And make Lauren feel like a stepchild before Ariel even showed up? That statement makes sense only if both Pat and Lauren knew that Lauren would not be around after the 2010-11 season.

If that speculation about chronology is right, then it points to the conclusion that Lauren's statement about her reason for leaving was probably candid.

 

[EricLA]

Yes I read your reply. What 3 duke players with pre-med degrees has anything to do with Avant choosing to leave to focus on her career aspirations is beyond me. If your point is it can be done, then that is obvious and i dont need examples to realize that. My point is that she has every right to choose what is best for her. Unlike Walker and EDD here, we're not going to chastise her for her decision. As far as Tennessee being her dream school and her early commitment, this is an example of the risks those commitments come with. At that age she was the number 1 player in her class, but injuries hampered the majority of her high school career as well as her year with Tennessee. Perspectives can change and dreams can change. Especially with teenagers.

Also, as an All-American athlete in highschool I fully understand the decision to stop playing a sport for any sort of reason. My life would be completely different if I had chosen to pursue the opportunities I had to continue my athletic career. I think of this often, and I am confident that I made the best decision for ME at that point in my life, just as I'm sure Avant made what she thought was the best decision for her.

What Hunter making a different decision than Cain has to do with anything is beyond me as well. Cain graduated and decided the toll basketball was playing on her body wasn't worth it. She had graduated as well and decided to move on with her life. Is that really that fishy or controversial to you?

But none of this has anything to do with your original post that flat out lies and evoked my initial response. You keep talking but you've yet to address that.

flat out lies? seriously? u are clearly delusional and clueless. please point out my numerous lies, as you say. you . did i say i knew anything for a fact? no i did not. apparently you conveniently missed the part where i said "i'll admit i have no idea if Lauren did feel recruited over or not." which was my very next post, but feel free to keep attacking and whining.

i believe that there are problems in tennessee and the fact that 3 kids quit the program in the last 6 months has only increased my feeling on that matter. the fact that Pat has been diagnosed with a debilitating disease, while evoking sympathy, has also increased my feeling on the matter.

this is just too much fun and way too easy. u keep throwing up ridiculous arguments and when i poke all the holes in them u jump to something else. smoke, fire. one kid leaving after another. you can say everything is rosy and that everyone's leaving had nothing to do with other issues. we know for a fact that there were other issues involved with EDD's leaving as well as Samarie Walker's. it's been discussed in private emails by many of us. but the fact is the "public" reason they left is not the whole story. in fact, in Samarie's case, it's not even half of the story. but they were two kids who left, and their leaving was 2 years apart.

As far as my Hunter and Vally comparison, please tell me you were joking. it's seriously "beyond you" what they have have to do with Kelly? i'm not even going to bother explaining it yet again. if you really don't get the comparison, it makes your posts entirely meaningless.

you can make all the excuses you want for why they left. the fact is it's suspect. but hey, feel free to come back any time and act all combative and accusatory. you are very amusing.

 

[tnvolfan65]

"Avant left as well, apparently feeling she was recruited over with Massengale coming." is the lie I keep referring to. There has been no indication of this. Ever. Except maybe on this board.

Admitting you didn't know what you were talking about only further shows that it was nothing but a lie with nothing to back it.

You've yet to "poke any holes in my argument." I've been saying the same thing in every post and in a number of threads regarding these players.

And yes what does Hunter have to do with anything? She played through injuries? So did Cain. Cain chose to leave after she finished school. So what??? They had different injuries, different body types, and are two completely different people. As I've said each of these teenage to 20-something year old girls are entitled to make the decisions they feel best for their future, their bodies, ect.

You are the one being "combative and accusatory" with their decisions. You're entitled to think what you want about Tennessee's program, but using Cain, Avant, McMahan, Dupree, and especially Amber G. (which not you but several other people on this board have numerous times) as proof of such is nonsense.

What happened with Brewer, I don't know, but what I'm not going to do is spread rumors and lies with my speculations. When either party talks about it, as Cain and Avant did, then I may feel the need to share my opinion with the rest of the world.

 

[Husky68]

Academics, commitment - always a reason player is the issue. How would you like to play for a team with those coaches. Demoss, that light haired girl and that guy are literally out of control during the games. It's like a zoo, thought it was strange how Pat let them carry on during games, with news of Pat's issues maybe not so strange. Sure it could be a lot of things, how about it sucks to be there is as likely as academics and commitment.

 

[EricLA]

"Avant left as well, apparently feeling she was recruited over with Massengale coming." is the lie I keep referring to. There has been no indication of this. Ever. Except maybe on this board.

Admitting you didn't know what you were talking about only further shows that it was nothing but a lie with nothing to back it.

You've yet to "poke any holes in my argument." I've been saying the same thing in every post and in a number of threads regarding these players.

And yes what does Hunter have to do with anything? She played through injuries? So did Cain. Cain chose to leave after she finished school. So what??? They had different injuries, different body types, and are two completely different people. As I've said each of these teenage to 20-something year old girls are entitled to make the decisions they feel best for their future, their bodies, ect.

You are the one being "combative and accusatory" with their decisions. You're entitled to think what you want about Tennessee's program, but using Cain, Avant, McMahan, Dupree, and especially Amber G. (which not you but several other people on this board have numerous times) as proof of such is nonsense.

What happened with Brewer, I don't know, but what I'm not going to do is spread rumors and lies with my speculations. When either party talks about it, as Cain and Avant did, then I may feel the need to share my opinion with the rest of the world.

who's arguing? i'm merely stating an opinion with regards to all the defections leaving the tennessee team over the past few months. you are the one who is a bit crazed, in fact, a bit hysterical. and you referred to "lies". i never said one lie, never mind "lies". just because you don't like my comment, or comparison, doesn't make it untrue or ridiculous.

it's a fact that many players have stayed on to play for their teams as best they could when coming back from injuries, or when playing thru pain. sorry but that's a fact. just like it's a fact that many players have managed to go thru pre med programs while still playing at the highest college level. and as for Brewer, we really have no idea why she left do we?

you didn't hear so many comments about that when Cain decided to quit the team. then a few months later, maybe a few more comments when Avant quit the team. now you have Brewer quitting the team. if we'd been having this discussion after ONLY the first defection, it might have seemed ridiculous. having it after the 2nd, well maybe there's something there. but now a 3rd? whatever the reasons, is it so strange that people might wonder what the heck is going on? apparently you live in fantasyland, tho, where that's not allowed.

and you accused people on this board of spreading rumors and lies about why Brewer left. Seriously? after 3 defections, people are speculating. did anyone use derogatory personal reasons as a guess (pregnancy, drugs, something illegal)? NO. not even close. to call out every UCONN fan who speculated as spreading nonsense and lies ought to get u banned.

a lie is an "intentional untruth". u accused me of "lies". i've yet to see any proof of even one lie. can you prove my assumption was an intentional untruth? i didn't think so. so you come on here, attack me, and accuse me of lying with absolutely no proof. i can certainly see you disagreeing, but to come on here accusing me of lies? it's fun to have intelligent discussion.

i don't see anyone on here stating unequivocally that they have "proof" of the "nonsense" and "lies" you accused UCONN fans of. you have a coach who fabricates a 30+ page complaint to the NCAA, cancels the series for reasons only she really knows, accuses Geno and UCONN of cheating, and you come on here accusing me of "lies" and then say UCONN posters are full of nonsense, and apparently are liars as well.

if u want to come over here and have an intelligent discussion about something fine. there are many threads even on this new board where there have been lively but respectful discussions between UCONN and tennessee fans. but u come over here with condescension, sarcasm, and as a visitor on someone else's board. you insulted not only me, but almost every UCONN fan in this thread.

 

[DaddyChoc]

geesh Eric... lets not lump all of "them" together with that "vistor & go back" crap. I hate those comments there and I hate them here.

 

[EricLA]

geesh Eric... lets not lump all of "them" together with that "vistor & go back" crap. I hate those comments there and I hate them here.

so do i DC, but when someone comes over here and lumps all the posters in this thread as spreaders of nonsense implying they are lying is wrong.

she's the one who said "(which not you but several other people on this board have numerous times) as proof of such is nonsense" in reference to the apparent lies. but she will possibly "feel the need to share my opinion with the rest of the world" only if/when the parties involved "talk about it"...

sorry, but that sucks and is way out of line. and i was accused of spreading "lies" not even just one lie, but lies. sorry but that's Pat's m.o., not mine. u want to come on here and tell me i got my facts wrong or that you disagree with me fine. accuse me of spreading lies, not fine.

you are entitled to "hate that crap", yet i don't see you calling her out for what she said about the UCONN fans in this thread. instead you call me out for letting her have it. sheesh.

 

[tnvolfan65]

Just for the record, I only referred to one post on this thread as a lie and I have quoted it twice.

I didn't call anyone else a liar. I didn't have a problem with any posts before that one. Speculation about why Brewer left is interesting and I didn't have a problem with that. But speculating why she left and stating she "apparently" left for this reason, as was said about Avant, are two different things.

 

[EricLA]

Just for the record, I only referred to one post on this thread as a lie and I have quoted it twice.

I didn't call anyone else a liar. I didn't have a problem with any posts before that one. Speculation about why Brewer left is interesting and I didn't have a problem with that. But speculating why she left and stating she "apparently" left for this reason, as was said about Avant, are two different things.

just for the record, you accused me of spreading "lies". go back and read it. and even the comment i made was not a lie. it may have been incorrect, but you accused me of being a liar. two very different things you apparently can't see the difference between.

 

[Kibitzer]

Enough already!

Why don't you two exchange phone numbers and email addresses to duke it out and let the rest of use fantasize about McDaniel and DeShields.

 

[DaddyChoc]

so do i DC, but when someone comes over here and lumps all the posters in this thread as spreaders of nonsense implying they are lying is wrong.

she's the one who said "(which not you but several other people on this board have numerous times) as proof of such is nonsense" in reference to the apparent lies. but she will possibly "feel the need to share my opinion with the rest of the world" only if/when the parties involved "talk about it"...

sorry, but that sucks and is way out of line. and i was accused of spreading "lies" not even just one lie, but lies. sorry but that's Pat's m.o., not mine. u want to come on here and tell me i got my facts wrong or that you disagree with me fine. accuse me of spreading lies, not fine.

you are entitled to "hate that crap", yet i don't see you calling her out for what she said about the UCONN fans in this thread. instead you call me out for letting her have it. sheesh.

Eric relax.. Im just talking about that same ol' "vistors, go back to you own board nonsense" thats all. I have NO clue as to what lie or LIES either of you are talking about.

Your argument was fine without "act like a vistor & go back to your own board" IMO

but who am I to tell people "how to post".

E you're still cool with me Buddy

 

[willtalk]

There was a poster on another thread on this very site who gave a very plausible and reasonable explaination on why Brewer would want to transfer. It would be over a disageement with Pat over whether she would red shirt this year. It became apparent this summer that Brewer was far less than 100% physically for the coming season. Brewer who has said she wants to try the WNBA wanted her last year of elegibility to be an audition for the draft so she prefers to redshirt. Now even at her reduced level of play she is still far better than anything else Tenn has at center so they really need her this year not next. Pat wants her to play for the good of the team. Brewer won't because she doesnt want to give up her chance at the WNBA so the best choice remaining for both partys is for her to transfer. She gets to play an entire season healthy next year and her leaving free's up a scholly for Tenn. They really don't need her as much next year. Thus the expaination of it being called a mutual decision.

 

[Icebear]

Circular logic. Your academic reason comes only AFTER she's left the team. Thus it was not the cause of her leaving the team, which is the whole point of this thread.

Again I was only noting that academics can apply to more than grades, nothing more. Not stating that they were or weren't the reason for her leaving the team but rather for leaving Tennessee as her school with only one year to go.

 

[HuskyNan]

I have been laid up after knee surgery this week or I would have killed this thread a long time ago.

I apologize to any members of Alyssa Brewer, or Lauren Avant's, families that might have had the misfortune to see the rampant, unsubstantiated speculation in this thread.