Big Ten's Move

[DarthGrumpy]

The Big Ten will have its tournament in Chicago or Indiannapolis like they always do. For the Big Ten to go to New York for its tournament would be similar to the ACC having the ACC tournament in Chicago. It's the extreme edge of the conference geographically. It would be a hardship for all the midwestern fans to leave their region to come to New York just to get some exposure even though Rutgers is close to New York. It would be an extreme hardship for all the ACC fans to leave the ACC regions to get to Chicago for some exposure even though Notre Dame is close to Chicago.

Jim Delaney might want to do something like that and at some point he might try to, but the travelling basketball fans of Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan State, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, etc. would hate it.

I agree with the everyone's feedback that 1) there are a lot if B1G alumni in NYC (for the ACC, it's primarily Syracuse, ND, and Duke) and 2) getting to NYC in Feb via plane is not much different than it is to get to Chicago (which I agree is the current heart of the B1G) from Minneapolis, Iowa City, Columbus, etc. and it easier than getting to Indianapolis (connections) for some. After all, both the UConn games against Maryland and Indiana drew well for early season games. Plus, do not discount the hype, press, and MONEY that a college basketball tournament generates being held at MSG.

 

[EROCK CONN]

Jim Delaney would say that a B1G basketball tournament in NYC is for Midwestern alumni in the city. He could also have it in Los Angeles and say the same thing. I think it would mostly be for his personal ego if he put it in NYC.

Los Angeles......hhmmmm.....now there's an idea. Let me give Jim a call and talk to him about scheduling a football game out there every year. Such a move might enhance The BIG's visibility on the West Coast.

Now if only the BIG had something to help them enhance the legaues visibility on the East coast in an area where there is the second highest concentration of BIG alumni.

Back in 20 with feedback.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The ACC likes to also have the tournmant in Charlotte, Washington, DC, and Atlanta. Add New York and Greensboro, and that's where the ACC will most likely rotate. It's been in Tampa, FL before too, but I don't see it going back there. I don't see it having a permanent home.

As for the ACC, having the tournament in NYC will be interesting. How will Wake, UNC, Duke & NC State react to giving-up for what amounts to a home court advantage by having the ACC tournament in Greensboro? Duke will be least impacted as they have a significant alumni presence in NYC. But, what will UNC think when they are playing for the ACC title game (and #1 NCAA seed) against Syracuse (or, ignoring current records, ND) at Barclay’s and are faced with 12,000 screaming, hostile (Orange clad) fans? The UNC and the rest tobacco road mafia may pull it back to Greensboro with their tails between their legs.
I think the idea of moving the ACC tournament to DC died the day Maryland left for the B1G.

 

[NickyNewark]

The B1G neither wants nor needs to have its tourament in NY. It has Chicago. It likes NYC as a market for the BTN, but leaving a city that is nearly as big, much more central to the league and which already has a huge number of alumns from the conference schools (much more than NY) would be pointless. What's next, you think the Pac wants to play in NY instead of LA? NY is the biggest market in the country, but it is not to the U.S. what Paris is to France. It's still a tiny part of the whole country. Let's not overrate it compared to Chicago or LA. It is only slightly more relevant as a market.

Outside of the tri-state area, (and I'm only including Fairfield county and maybe Danbury in CT), most of America doesn't give a crap about NYC.

Chicago almost the same size? I thought Chitown proper was only half the size of NYC at best and the metros aren't even that close? I've lived in LA and think that comparison is better!btw Paris is old and nice(not for everyone) but it ain't NYC!

 

[btstimpy]

As for the ACC, having the tournament in NYC will be interesting. How will Wake, UNC, Duke & NC State react to giving-up for what amounts to a home court advantage by having the ACC tournament in Greensboro? Duke will be least impacted as they have a significant alumni presence in NYC. But, what will UNC think when they are playing for the ACC title game (and #1 NCAA seed) against Syracuse (or, ignoring current records, ND) at Barclay’s and are faced with 12,000 screaming, hostile (Orange clad) fans? The UNC and the rest tobacco road mafia may pull it back to Greensboro with their tails between their legs.
I think the idea of moving the ACC tournament to DC died the day Maryland left for the B1G.

The ACC is having the ACC Men's basketball tournament in Washington, DC in 2016 at the Verizon Center. I can easily see it continuing to be on the regular rotation. It is already going to be after Maryland's departure. Virginia and Virginia Tech have as much presence in Washington, DC as does Maryland not that UVA and VT have much of an impact on the ACC Men's basketball tournament. I'd like to see UVA make the final again some day. We've had a dry spell. Washington, DC is a central location for the ACC geographically.

It's going to New York to appease Syracuse, Notre Dame, and Pitt who started harping on having it there since the first day they decided to join the ACC. Jim Boeheim even insulted the city of Greensboro within his first couple of interviews after joining. The North Carolina schools don't mind having the tournament in New York occasionally. They don't want it there permanently, but occasionally it's fine.

 

[tzznandrew]

The ACC can pull off NYC because its four marquee teams going forward either have alumni in the area (Duke, UNC, Syracuse) or travel particularly well (Louisville). Pitt is typically pretty good too, and they can travel, and you'll get some ND fans. The odds are that 1-2 of that group will be playing every night of the tournament, and so there will be a draw.

The B1G can pull it off once in a blue moon. There's enough alumni for 1 out of every 3 or 4 years.

 

[SubbaBub]

Now that the BE has lost it's biggest NYC draws, it makes sense for either conference to hold a NYC BB tournament.

The B1G has a better in because of alumni base size.

Why the ACC leaves a guaranteed NC/Duke sellout in Raleigh or Greensboro is beyond me.. TV camera work in Carolina just as well and it's not like ACC BB is starved for attention.

 

[billybud]

The Barclay will be a one or two time deal.....

Just to show the flag....

 

[bingethinker]

The Barclay will be a one or two time deal.....

Just to show the flag....

I agree. This isn't a surprising move by the ACC, but I'd be very surprised if NYC sees an ACC tourney more frequently than once per decade.

 

[Husky25]

Do Rutgers and Penn State send a lot of fans to a basketball tournament? I'm not sure they would even be playing in most of it. If they want to be close to Maryland, they should have it in Washington, DC. I don't doubt the Big Ten is looking at New York. Jim Delaney is talking about getting office space there. He's obsessed with it, but it's not very practical. Sure people could fly for 2 and a half hours. I'm not sure I'd call that flight short though.

NYC is home to many alumni of every conference. But the B1G doesn't have a regional basketball power in it close to NYC. I'm not sure Rutgers would be playing in the last 3 days of a B1G tournament. The B1G has many more alumni in the Midwest than they do New York, and Indianapolis and Chicago are much shorter commutes for them. Like I said, I can see Jim Delaney trying to get some publicity by trying to pull something like that off, but it is not a natural fit. UConn might be able to help with it, but UConn isn't in the B1G at this point.

The Big Ten will have its tournament in Chicago or Indiannapolis like they always do. For the Big Ten to go to New York for its tournament would be similar to the ACC having the ACC tournament in Chicago. It's the extreme edge of the conference geographically. It would be a hardship for all the midwestern fans to leave their region to come to New York just to get some exposure even though Rutgers is close to New York. It would be an extreme hardship for all the ACC fans to leave the ACC regions to get to Chicago for some exposure even though Notre Dame is close to Chicago.

Jim Delaney might want to do something like that and at some point he might try to, but the travelling basketball fans of Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan State, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, etc. would hate it.

You mention the fans and alumni 4 times within 3 posts, Btstimpy, but with all do respect, the fans at this level probably have minimal effect (if any) to do with where a conference tournament of a major college basketball conference is held. You'd like to think they have more regard for the fans but money talks. Fans may be the end consumer, but their attention can be captured in multiple ways and the live viewing experience is represented by Jack vs. the television networks' Giant, money-wise. Additionally, that money is locked in for these conferences for the foreseeable future. Fans matter to the Atlantic-10, America East, the Northeast Conference, Colonial Athletic Conference, and others where games are not nationally televised (The A-10 semi-final was not even televised in Western MA when it featured their local school). The only reason the ACC is rotating to the Barclays Center is because the ACC does not have an NYC outlet during the regular season. Sworford is as much of a media hoar as you depict Delaney. The ACC think this provides more exposure, as if fans of teams at this level don't have TVs and cannot watch the tournament unless it is held in the next borough. In fact, an ACC outsider may conclude that the ACC is trying to maximize their publicity by forcing a square peg into a round hole (Closest school is in Boston), similar to what you are doing unto Delaney. The Big Ten is currently in the same boat and while Rutgers is not a power, they are a presence and they are about to be in the Big Ten. It makes more sense.

The truth is the Semi-final and Final rounds for both the ACC and Big Ten Tournaments will sell out most any of venue, even it were the Rose Garden in Portland, OR. Basketball fans will go to watch good basketball. Those same fans will watch the games on TV. Any conference, outside the MAAC and maybe the Big East at this point really does their conference members a disservice by making them travel to NYC. It made sense for the Old Big East because half the leagues' teams were within the NYC DMA, St. Johns, Seton Hall, and Rutgers), another 3 teams were within a 3-hour drive (Nova, UConn, and PC) two more were within 250 miles, (Syracuse, BC). The only outliers of the original Big East were Pittsburgh and Georgetown.

If the ACC were really concerned about their core fans being in attendance, they would hold their tournament in Greensboro or Charlotte every year.

 

[btstimpy]

You mention the fans and alumni 4 times within 3 posts, Btstimpy, but with all do respect, the fans at this level probably have minimal effect (if any) to do with where a conference tournament of a major college basketball conference is held. You'd like to think they have more regard for the fans but money talks. Fans may be the end consumer, but their attention can be captured in multiple ways and the live viewing experience is represented by Jack vs. the television networks' Giant, money-wise. Additionally, that money is locked in for these conferences for the foreseeable future. Fans matter to the Atlantic-10, America East, the Northeast Conference, Colonial Athletic Conference, and others where games are not nationally televised (The A-10 semi-final was not even televised in Western MA when it featured their local school). The only reason the ACC is rotating to the Barclays Center is because the ACC does not have an NYC outlet during the regular season. Sworford is as much of a media hoar as you depict Delaney. The ACC think this provides more exposure, as if fans of teams at this level don't have TVs and cannot watch the tournament unless it is held in the next borough. In fact, an ACC outsider may conclude that the ACC is trying to maximize their publicity by forcing a square peg into a round hole (Closest school is in Boston), similar to what you are doing unto Delaney. The Big Ten is currently in the same boat and while Rutgers is not a power, they are a presence and they are about to be in the Big Ten. It makes more sense.

The truth is the Semi-final and Final rounds for both the ACC and Big Ten Tournaments will sell out most any of venue, even it were the Rose Garden in Portland, OR. Basketball fans will go to watch good basketball. Those same fans will watch the games on TV. Any conference, outside the MAAC and maybe the Big East at this point really does their conference members a disservice by making them travel to NYC. It made sense for the Old Big East because half the leagues' teams were within the NYC DMA, St. Johns, Seton Hall, and Rutgers), another 3 teams were within a 3-hour drive (Nova, UConn, and PC) two more were within 250 miles, (Syracuse, BC). The only outliers of the original Big East were Pittsburgh and Georgetown.

If the ACC were really concerned about their core fans being in attendance, they would hold their tournament in Greensboro or Charlotte every year.

The ACC really is concerned about the core fans being in attendance. That's why the tournament is in Greensboro or Charlotte as much as it is, and also why the league isn't going to move it from there for long periods. It has consistently done well with attendance at those places over 50 years. As I mentioned in this tread, the New York idea was something that new members Syracuse, Notre Dame, and Pittsburgh pushed very hard for as they liked their experience in New York while members of the Big East. The ACC has agreed to give it a try to accomodate the wishes of the new members to see how it works out. And yes John Swofford sees it as an opportunity to showcase the tournament in the media capital of the country. But I can never see it moved there permanently.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Here is a sample from Indiana U.

http://college.indiana.edu/alumni/img/USA_s.png

 

[btstimpy]

Now that the BE has lost it's biggest NYC draws, it makes sense for either conference to hold a NYC BB tournament.

The B1G has a better in because of alumni base size.

Why the ACC leaves a guaranteed NC/Duke sellout in Raleigh or Greensboro is beyond me.. TV camera work in Carolina just as well and it's not like ACC BB is starved for attention.

The ACC hasn't had the tournament in Raleigh for decades. It prefers a neutral location even though many considered Greensboro the home floor of Wake Forest for many years. The tournament will continue to spend a lot of time Greensboro and Charlotte over the years. But many fans want to see it rotate to places like New York, Washington, DC, and Atlanta from time to time.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Chicago almost the same size? I thought Chitown proper was only half the size of NYC at best and the metros aren't even that close? I've lived in LA and think that comparison is better!btw Paris is old and nice(not for everyone) but it ain't NYC!

Paris is far more significant to France than NY is to the USA. It dominates the country, and is a much larger share of total population. I prefer anything to NY, but some people love it.

Chicago metro is still easily the third largest in the USA (and is a nicer city in my opinion). LA is closer to NY in size, though smaller, and probably equals it for media impact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_by_population

The point remains, there is no material incremental benefit in exposure to playing in NY over Chicago (and for the B1G would likely be a drop in attendance). There is a major incremental benefit in exposure to playing in NY over Greensboro.

 

[Husky25]

The ACC really is concerned about the core fans being in attendance. That's why the tournament is in Greensboro or Charlotte as much as it is, and also why the league isn't going to move it from there for long periods. It has consistently done well with attendance at those places over 50 years. As I mentioned in this tread, the New York idea was something that new members Syracuse, Notre Dame, and Pittsburgh pushed very hard for as they liked their experience in New York while members of the Big East. The ACC has agreed to give it a try to accomodate the wishes of the new members to see how it works out. And yes John Swofford sees it as an opportunity to showcase the tournament in the media capital of the country. But I can never see it moved there permanently.

As long as we're on the same page, then...

 

[pj]

A final four of Michigan State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, and Indiana would generate far more buzz in Chicago than NY. A final four of UNC, Duke, Louisville, Syracuse would play fine in many eastern cities. Can't see the B1G holding a tourney in NYC until an eastern school is actually competitive.

 

[Fishy]

The Big Ten doesn't have to do anything.

The ACC is going to bring their tournament here once and not until 2018 or so.

Even then, they're playing off-Broadway out in Brooklyn.

By that time, no one may care.

 

[NickyNewark]

Paris is far more significant to France than NY is to the USA. It dominates the country, and is a much larger share of total population. I prefer anything to NY, but some people love it.

Chicago metro is still easily the third largest in the USA (and is a nicer city in my opinion). LA is closer to NY in size, though smaller, and probably equals it for media impact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_by_population

The point remains, there is no material incremental benefit in exposure to playing in NY over Chicago (and for the B1G would likely be a drop in attendance). There is a major incremental benefit in exposure to playing in NY over Greensboro.

Nothing to argue here...no doubt Paris to France is like London to England and set trends for the smaller European countries and even the world and have for centuries but like you said NYC ain't for everyone but I love it and its attraction's aren't as spread out as they are in European cities. Concentrated culture with easy access appeals to me in NYC whereas in LA you HAVE to have wheels to make the rounds for lack of an eastcoast style mass transit system! I'm not really familiar with Chicago but have heard nice things from others!

 

[UConn990411]

NYC is home to many alumni of every conference. But the B1G doesn't have a regional basketball power in it close to NYC. I'm not sure Rutgers would be playing in the last 3 days of a B1G tournament. The B1G has many more alumni in the Midwest than they do New York, and Indianapolis and Chicago are much shorter commutes for them. Like I said, I can see Jim Delaney trying to get some publicity by trying to pull something like that off, but it is not a natural fit. UConn might be able to help with it, but UConn isn't in the B1G at this point.

If it's so ridiculous for the B1G to have its tourney in NYC, why isn't it equally ridiculous for the ACC?

You seem to think the ACC has an NYC presence. It doesn't. No one outside upstate New York gives a crap about Syracuse, no one gives a crap about Notre Dame bball period, and Duke and UNC have no more pull in the Big Apple than the Ohio States and Michigans of the world.

If establishing an NYC presence was the ultimate goal, the ACC screwed the pooch by not adding Rutgers and UConn when it had the chance. They're simply not breaking into that market as currently constructed.

 

[UConn990411]

The B1G neither wants nor needs to have its tourament in NY. It has Chicago. It likes NYC as a market for the BTN, but leaving a city that is nearly as big, much more central to the league and which already has a huge number of alumns from the conference schools (much more than NY) would be pointless. What's next, you think the Pac wants to play in NY instead of LA? NY is the biggest market in the country, but it is not to the U.S. what Paris is to France. It's still a tiny part of the whole country. Let's not overrate it compared to Chicago or LA. It is only slightly more relevant as a market.

Outside of the tri-state area, (and I'm only including Fairfield county and maybe Danbury in CT), most of America doesn't give a crap about NYC.

Chicago is nearly as big as NYC? What world are you living in?

NYC has about two-thirds as many people as the entire state of Illinois. That market is wide open right now, so it makes perfect sense for the B1G to go after it.

Even if they don't dominate the NYC market, establishing the biggest presence there means a lot more eyeballs ... and that equates to a lot more $$$.

 

[Husky25]

When did Chicago gain statehood?

 

[UPitt]

If it's so ridiculous for the B1G to have its tourney in NYC, why isn't it equally ridiculous for the ACC?

You seem to think the ACC has an NYC presence. It doesn't. No one outside upstate New York gives a crap about Syracuse, no one gives a crap about Notre Dame bball period, and Duke and UNC have no more pull in the Big Apple than the Ohio States and Michigans of the world.

If establishing an NYC presence was the ultimate goal, the ACC screwed the pooch by not adding Rutgers and UConn when it had the chance. They're simply not breaking into that market as currently constructed.

It's not just about presence, as neither have a huge presence and NYC is definitely a pro sports city where I believe college sports will always struggle to be front and center. Due to the mass size, I think multiple conferences/teams will always share the city but no single conference/team will have a strong stranglehold on it. Even a small share of NYC can result in a large fanbase because of the shear numbers. This may just be my opinion, but it seems like we argue about 10 or so teams (Uconn, Rutgers, Duke, ND, PSU, UNC, UVA, OSU, Mich, St. Johns, etc) that all have a "strong" presence, at least in number of graduates. There is not going to be a massive change in demographics, so therefore I find it unlikely that any single conference (even with the addition of Uconn) will be able to lay claim to NYC as its turf. But, Uconn would help solidify NYC prensence for either conference by adding the largest piece of the pie remaining.

For the ACC, NYC is north of central ACC territory by a few hundred miles, but it is within its footprint. Also, many of the ACC teams have a history of playing in NYC for neutral site games and the former Big East tourny. Many ACC teams recruit NYC very heavily. I do not see the ACC choosing NYC as an every year event, but a rotation including NYC every 2 -4 years would be acceptable. The ACC should take adavantage of the other major cities within its footprint, including DC/Baltimore, Charlotte, Greensboro (tradition), Atlanta, and Miami.

For the B1G, NYC is east of its most eastern member and east of central B1G territory by more than a few hundred miles. In general, the B1G teams do not have the equal history of playing games in NYC that the ACC (including new Big East additions) does and do not recruit the NYC area as heavily as many ACC members. I think it would be just fine for the B1G to bring the conference tourny to NYC every 5 - 10 years. This would help keep the event special each time it is brought to NYC. But the B1G should use the resources within its footprint and play the games in Chicago and Indy, and then make occasional trips to NYC or maybe even Detroit, DC, OKC, etc.

If the B1G would like to get additional access to NYC, then stage a preseason tourny, east/west division challenge (similar to ACC/B1G challenge), or add an additional conference game at a neutral site for each member. If competitive advantage is a concern, then consider these games to be non conference and not count toward standings. This would allow the league schedule marquee games at a neutral site to showcase the league. Make a month of it, with 4 games being played in NYC (2 at MSG, 2 at Bar) and 3 games being played elsewhere (DC, OKC, Detroit, etc). The games could be played on saturdays to avoid travel headaches, and consider playing them prior to christmas as a kickoff to the conference season. This is something I have thought that every conference should consider but none have implimented to date. Just my rambling thoughts.

How does this impact Uconn? The Big East had as good of a presence in NYC as any conference will ever have. Uconn was a large part of it. If either the B1G or ACC are serious about having a stronger presence in NYC for TV dollars and recruiting, then the only logical next step is to add Uconn. Unless someone thinks that a combination of NYU, Princeton, St. Johns, and SUNY can fill the same void, but that's an idea that only the Big East would have dreamt of.

 

[btstimpy]

If it's so ridiculous for the B1G to have its tourney in NYC, why isn't it equally ridiculous for the ACC?

You seem to think the ACC has an NYC presence. It doesn't. No one outside upstate New York gives a crap about Syracuse, no one gives a crap about Notre Dame bball period, and Duke and UNC have no more pull in the Big Apple than the Ohio States and Michigans of the world.

If establishing an NYC presence was the ultimate goal, the ACC screwed the pooch by not adding Rutgers and UConn when it had the chance. They're simply not breaking into that market as currently constructed.

The ACC is going to have the tournament in NYC. If no one in NYC is interested, it will flop. If it flops, it won't be there again. Syracuse, Notre Dame, and Pitt all have pushed to have it there. They have their wish. Now it is time to perform. We already know for a fact that the ACC tournament does well in Washington, DC, Greensboro and Charlotte, NC, and Atlanta. It can go back to one of those places if Brooklyn is a bust. The ACC has 9 schools within a day's drive of NYC. I think the tournament will do well in NYC. We will see in due time.

I have said that the ACC needs to add UConn many times. That is my opinion. Rutgers is going to the Big Ten. They are not an option. I don't know if Rutgers would have any impact on the ACC Men's Basketball Tournament anyway. I don't know what impact Rutgers had on the Big East Men's Basketball Tournament. You would know better than I. Someone posted in this thread that Rutgers only draws 350 fans to its home games. That's not going to impress the Barclay's Center.

 

[Husky25]

The ACC is going to have the tournament in NYC. If no one in NYC is interested, it will flop. If it flops, it won't be there again. Syracuse, Notre Dame, and Pitt all have pushed to have it there. They have their wish. Now it is time to perform. We already know for a fact that the ACC tournament does well in Washington, DC, Greensboro and Charlotte, NC, and Atlanta. It can go back to one of those places if Brooklyn is a bust. The ACC has 9 schools within a day's drive of NYC. I think the tournament will do well in NYC. We will see in due time.

I have said that the ACC needs to add UConn many times. That is my opinion. Rutgers is going to the Big Ten. They are not an option. I don't know if Rutgers would have any impact on the ACC Men's Basketball Tournament anyway. I don't know what impact Rutgers had on the Big East Men's Basketball Tournament. You would know better than I. Someone posted in this thread that Rutgers only draws 350 fans to its home games. That's not going to impress the Barclay's Center.

Theoretically, a day is 24 hours. Every school is within a day's drive, but that doesn't make it a smart move.

How will it be determined if the ACC tournament is a bust? It is in the ACC and Barclays Center's best interest to put the best face on the story as they possibly can.

The arena will "sell out," no question. Whether ticket are sold through direct channels, given away, or purchased on the secondary market is another story that can be spun however the ACC and the Barclays wishes. The narrative will be that there were butts in seats and millions of people who didn't make the drive or just want to watch basketball will tune into ESPN all over the country, but the Tournament games would get the same rating regardless of venue. The ACC is not a regional brand. It is distributed nationally and has been for years.

It's a similar situation to how the BCS's set up forced the Fiesta Bowl to invite UConn in 2011 and UCF this year. Different narrative, but similar situation. Tickets will be sold (and were sold in 2011) and every seat in the house in Glendale will be (was) filled. But the narrative is Big East (AAC) teams don't belong in the BCS and UConn (UCF) shouldn't represent the conference because only 2,500 (5,000) fans bought tickets through direct channels (i.e. over-inflated school sanctioned packages).

The Barclays Center will make their money. They sign the contract for a weeks' rent months ahead of time. It is what it is. Beyond that. I hope ALL of these conferences and TV channels lose their collective shirts on these TV deals. It would be just fine with me if ESPN's mobile production truck gets struck by lightning just before tip off and all tickets are obtained through means other than from the school allotment. I want the Conferences to go F'in bankrupt. Blow up the system and re-organize in a manner that makes sense. Piecemeal conference realignment not only takes too long, it is disjointed and illogical.

 

[Jimdish255]

If it's so ridiculous for the B1G to have its tourney in NYC, why isn't it equally ridiculous for the ACC?

You seem to think the ACC has an NYC presence. It doesn't. No one outside upstate New York gives a crap about Syracuse, no one gives a crap about Notre Dame bball period, and Duke and UNC have no more pull in the Big Apple than the Ohio States and Michigans of the world.

If establishing an NYC presence was the ultimate goal, the ACC screwed the pooch by not adding Rutgers and UConn when it had the chance. They're simply not breaking into that market as currently constructed.

The Big East Tournament in NYC can never be re-created because it was a uniquely regional tournament with star power and close ties to the city. The closest that could have happened would have been UConn and Rutgers to the ACC. Right now no major conference has a claim great enough to come close for a sustained tournament run at MSG. So they'll stop in for a cup of coffee now and then to try to pump their image. Real sad.