XL Center Makeover Comes With Hefty Price Tag | Page 3 | The Boneyard

XL Center Makeover Comes With Hefty Price Tag

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Apparently, there is going to be a story on the XL renovations on NBC Connecticut during the 5:30 news segment.
 
Who Ha said:
Has anyone noticed that the Smith professor always quoted as saying public funding of sports arenas never helps the city, never says what he would spend the money on? Entertainment and packed bars (yahoo) and restaurants add much to a city.
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It's opportunity cost. By wasting it on an arena that won't return the investment, you lose the ability to invest that se around on things that benefit the public and return value. Like, basically anything else. Schools. Bridge repair. Public transit. Sewer upgrades.


Anything else.
 
ct06111 said:
https://m.soundcloud.com/the-whaler-guys/shut-yer-blow-hole-pc8 Listen to 27 minute on. That is where I got it from. Plus this: http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2014/08/16/report-devils-to-lose-money-in-2014-15/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoza...-devils-being-crushed-by-230-million-of-debt/ 230 million in debt. It's not all about the DMA, MSA, market, tv etc. The islanders play in a 15,795 (60 more than XL) in a glorified AHL rink. 13,000 or so are acceptable to watch hockey. How Bettman allows this..... I don't get it. Attendance so far: http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance Out of the teams I mentioned In the prior post, who are in the bottom 5?
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Oh, the Whaler Guys podcast. What a source.
 
brasssbonanzaa said:
The Phoenix arena is also a disaster, primarily because of its horrendous location. East Hartford wouldn't be nearly as bad, but bringing the arena out of downtown into an area that's not walkable, has no public transit, and would be more difficult to access from the western part of the state which has more youth hockey teams and fans would be an interesting decision.

The problem with respect to the NHL is that the league does not want a team there. Not to mention the Bruins and Rangers would be opposed to another team coming in, I believe they may even have a right to vote against it or veto it in some regard since it would be a competing market. Bettman is steadfast against a team being in Hartford. The league wants a team in Las Vegas, that is going to happen. Whether it's a move or expansion remains to be seen. That said, with the success of Winnipeg, there is a LOT of groundswell to go back to Quebec - that would happen before Hartford. There is a lot of support for a team in Seattle as well, though they have some arena issues. But were an arena to be built there, they would be ahead of Hartford on the list. There's also Kansas City, who has a facility built and ready to go. I'm not positive on where they stand, but it would be difficult to see them behind Hartford. 06111's list of teams in trouble is faulty - the Devils aren't going anywhere. The Islanders aren't going anywhere except back to Long Island. AZ, Carolina, and Florida are in trouble but you can cross Carolina off the list of teams going to Hartford. That's just not going to happen. If AZ moves, it'd be to Las Vegas or Seattle to keep conference balance. Florida is an option, but again, with Quebec there - an ACTUALLY proven NHL market - they'd be well in front of Hartford.

Building this arena on the premise that an NHL team will come here is foolish. That doesn't mean they shouldn't do it and shouldn't build an arena that would be capable of hosting an NHL team - they should - but politicians and developers trumpeting how Hartford is in a good position to bring back the Whalers is either disingenuous or they all simply have their heads up their ass.
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Hartford is just not a major league city.. period... Don't plan on the NHL coming back, there just isn't the interest... Sad to say, but the Whale didn't draw that well and their contract with the state was the worst... Ask yourself this.. all things being equal, Quebec and Hartford are up for a team.. Which city will support its team better... no contest.. Quebec gets the team. Everyone here is bitching about football attendance at the UConn games.. If there's a bad team in the ice in Hartford, no one is going... I hate to say it, but it's the truth.. I would be a season tix holder, but I would be one of about 5,000.. maybe.
 
zls44 said:
Oh, the Whaler Guys podcast. What a source.
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I provided 2 other links. Prove me wrong. Provide a link.
3 NHL teams even in NY market, 2 of the NY teams are @ 77% capacity and avg <14,000. They don't need 3 NHL teams in NYC DMA. Give us 1.

I love how everyone nitpicked my post and decided to respond and attack my point about jersey. This thread is about the XL and CT. Provide a better response to my post.
 
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ct06111 said:
I provided 2 other links. Prove me wrong. Provide a link.
3 NHL teams even in NY market, 2 of the NY teams are @ 77% capacity and avg <14,000. They don't need 3 NHL teams in NYC DMA. Give us 1.

I love how everyone nitpicked my post and decided to respond and attack my point about jersey. This thread is about the XL and CT. Provide a better response to my post.
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Colorado moved from Denver to NJ... you know that, right? NYR has been there for 100 yrs and NYI for 50.. they're not going anywhere.. just understand that.... only teams that would possibly move are FLA, CLT, PHX.. Vegas and Quebec are better options... period.
 
ct06111 said:
They don't need 3 NHL teams in NYC DMA. Give us 1.
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LOL

"Ok, fair is fair, let's take a team away from it's fanbase and deprive ownership of lucrative media rights, attendance and the other benefits that come from playing in the No. 1 media market in the world because it's not fair to Central Connecticut."
 
What is CLT? Carolina? Vegas and Quebec are potential expansion sites. NHL isn't going to lose 1billion in expansion fees for 1 of them to be a relocation.
 
zls44 said:
It's opportunity cost. By wasting it on an arena that won't return the investment, you lose the ability to invest that se around on things that benefit the public and return value. Like, basically anything else. Schools. Bridge repair. Public transit. Sewer upgrades.


Anything else.
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Like all the money currently going to Hartford schools, subsidizing the busway (I occasionally take it), on and on.
 
ct06111 said:
What is CLT? Carolina? Vegas and Quebec are potential expansion sites. NHL isn't going to lose 1billion in expansion fees for 1 of them to be a relocation.
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Vegas and Quebec are also potential relocation sites.. they're probably the only sites... Seattle & Portland also in the mix.. my point is.. Hartford is not.. It's an AHL city.. just enjoy the AHL & UConn.. We're Providence with D-1 College Athletics..
 
superjohn said:
Will this really make it seem like a brand new arena or will it mostly just be cosmetic? The sight lines are awful at the civic center and the seating is just far too steep. $285 million dollars is an obscene amount if you are just putting lipstick on a pig. I have no clue when it comes to building/architecture, does this make a lot of sense and will it feel like an entirely new modern arena? Something needs to be done, does this make more sense than building a brand new structure?
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Actually, the steepness of the XL Center's seats is one of the things I like most about it. I think it creates a better view and puts you closer to the action.

In the post-Americans with Disabilities Act era, no new arena will be as steep. I like the way the arena is laid out, though, and I deeply miss the days when it would roar with 16,000+ every game.
 
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Section138 said:
Vegas and Quebec are also potential relocation sites.. they're probably the only sites... Seattle & Portland also in the mix.. my point is.. Hartford is not.. It's an AHL city.. just enjoy the AHL & UConn.. We're Providence with D-1 College Athletics..
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I see what you did there...
 
ct06111 said:
I provided 2 other links. Prove me wrong. Provide a link.
3 NHL teams even in NY market, 2 of the NY teams are @ 77% capacity and avg <14,000. They don't need 3 NHL teams in NYC DMA. Give us 1.

I love how everyone nitpicked my post and decided to respond and attack my point about jersey. This thread is about the XL and CT. Provide a better response to my post.
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The sooner you realize it's not going to happen, the sooner you'll stop looking like an idiot. The Islanders are failing massively in Brooklyn. Everyone knows this, everyone knew it would happen. It is NOT a result of NYC not being able to support three hockey teams. It's a result of the Barclays Center being an atrocious site for hockey. There's an out clause in their contract under certain stipulations to move back to Long Island - that's what would happen. Absolutely NO CHANCE they would move to Hartford. You really don't know what you're talking about here and are spewing fantasies and information from an echo chamber of people with an agenda and a yearning to get the Whalers back.

I loved the Whalers as much as anyone, took me 18 years to start following another NHL team and I still have my Sean Burke jersey hanging in my bedroom. But the reality is the climate is not there in the NHL for the team to return right now. Bettman is against it, there are more viable cities ahead of Hartford in line, and there is no arena, only a $250 million plan that isn't even close to being funded right now.

I'm sorry to sound a bit harsh here, but I'm trying to infuse some reality into this discussion and stop with these fantasyland arguments that have no basis in reality, oversimplify the situation, and give false hope to anyone reading this who wouldn't know otherwise. Is it possible the Whalers return at some point down the road? Yes. Is it a good idea to put the framework in place now with a quality arena that could suit it? Yes. Should that be done by mortgaging UConn's athletic success and forcing it to infuriate its only power-conference members? No. Connecticut needs to build Hartford on the back of Hartford, not on the back of UConn. UConn can and should be a player, but not the centerpiece of the city's revitalization. These NHL coming back soon fantasies are not the way to go. They have to sell this arena as a plan to set up the city for a future relocation/expansion franchise down the road, probably 10+ years out. But as it stands there are three cities that are absolutely 100% stone cold getting a team before Hartford (if anyone does), and at least one more that appears more attractive right now. And they have to wait for Bettman to retire and hope the new commissioner is not one of his disciples.
 
ct06111 said:
What is CLT? Carolina? Vegas and Quebec are potential expansion sites. NHL isn't going to lose 1billion in expansion fees for 1 of them to be a relocation.
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You're right, but what likely would happen is two new teams are added in the west to balance the conferences - Vegas/Seattle, and one team is relocated in the East to Quebec, likely Florida. They would not move a team from the west to the east - and Bettman has already given the whole make-good clause nonsense to Phoenix. They get their expansion fees, they get even conferences, they have 32 teams, nothing further happens, except if Carolina continues to tank. And don't even think for a second the NHL would let Carolina move back to Hartford.
 
ct06111 said:
https://m.soundcloud.com/the-whaler-guys/shut-yer-blow-hole-pc8

Listen to 27 minute on. That is where I got it from. Plus this:

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2014/08/16/report-devils-to-lose-money-in-2014-15/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoza...-devils-being-crushed-by-230-million-of-debt/

230 million in debt. It's not all about the DMA, MSA, market, tv etc.
The islanders play in a 15,795 (60 more than XL) in a glorified AHL rink. 13,000 or so are acceptable to watch hockey. How Bettman allows this..... I don't get it.

Attendance so far:
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

Out of the teams I mentioned In the prior post, who are in the bottom 5?
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The Barclays isn't made for hockey...but it is FAR from a glorified AHL rink! You are reaching with some of your comments regarding arenas. And your comment that the Devils are in trouble...fat chance they leave the Rock for a LONG time!
 
Oh my word, O.K. I take everything back I heard about the New Jersey Devils being in trouble.
I NEVER said the devils or the islanders are moving here. All I said was "give us 1 from the 3",. And then, All I said was "market? we are a better market than…."
That's it. I know our hockey market is debatable. I agree. Let's not go down that road.

I said ARI, FLA, CAR, NYI and "possibly" the devils are in trouble. What is "trouble"??? Trouble must mean different things to me and you. I was looking at attendance, I wasn't saying "OMG, the yotes, canes, panthers, isles, and devils are all possibly moving to Hartford". "Trouble" does not = moving trucks to me. We should build an arena that could possibly house an NHL team. This is being sold as a Uconn project and should really benefit Uconn, the student athletes, the fans, sports fandom overall, we can maybe get sellouts again, a better conference, etc. This is not being sold as an NHL arena. IF it happens, SWEET, awesome. I"m not counting on it, but trying to drum up support and not constant negativity even if it's reality.

O.K. I'll break down my story of how I heard it about the devils:
On fasttrak: Someone on the bus said: "Devils were at the BU game", I thought in my head… Scouts,
he said, nah, malloy was here, blah, blah, I thought, O.K. Maybe the AHL team. Nah, he said NJ is in trouble… End of story. I wrote a post about it here under: "rumor" and got a bunch of flak. Then I hear that podcast. I read about the 230 million in debt. Fan not liking the move to newark. I don't know much about NJ devils, but it seems the fans haven't been showing up and are near bottom in attendance. End of story… I then wrote what I wrote and then provided those links. I know NO more than that. They probably won' leave the rock. Sorry, probably wrong of me to assume trouble.

Barclays sucks for hockey. Saw the isles 2nd games there against WPG and the UConn game against ND. place sucks for hockey. FDNY99, really only like ~13,000 are acceptable for hockey. That is NOT acceptable for the NHL. Webster bank in bridgeport provides a better islander game day experience than Barlcays. Something needs to be done. I heard about this 5 year out clause, but islanders fans have no proof of it. Wang said it was "iron clad" for 25 year There is a NY Post article about a 5 year out clause, that's it. I don't trust the NY Post.

Dude, I really like this forum/board. I didn't go to Uconn. I never played hockey. The whalers left when I was 13 and was crushed. I stopped paying attention to the game until last year and started back up with Uconn's 1st hockey game in Hartford. I now have ST to hockey, football, soccer, and bball. Call me an idiot all you want brasssbonanzaaa. But it kinda sucks that I have to defend my posts everytime I post here about hockey. It sucks and starting to get old.
I try and research and inform myself as much as I can. typing on the phone at works sucks and it's hard to get out all my thoughts in a clear manner that makes sense. I know this is a lot, lets drop it, and I hope they build a respectable arena for both Uconn and the NHL.
 
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So my suggestion is take the $250M to build light rail from the Rent to Gampel and use the Rent lots as offsite parking. FFC fans don't have to drive all the way to Storrs. Plus UConn students can use the train to get to the football games. As a bonus you can designate it a commuter rail system and get Federal funding. It will help develop the eastern part of the state and will support the new tech park at UConn. It's genius in it's simplicity.
 
I stopped reading at the point where you believed the Devils were at the BU-UConn game because they're scouting the arena/location to move to.
 
CL82 said:
So my suggestion is take the $250M to build light rail from the Rent to Gampel and use the Rent lots as offsite parking. FFC fans don't have to drive all the way to Storrs. Plus UConn students can use the train to get to the football games. As a bonus you can designate it a commuter rail system and get Federal funding. It will help develop the eastern part of the state and will support the new tech park at UConn. It's genius in it's simplicity.
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Love the idea... but $250 million would barely get you to Manchester via light rail. It's expensive.

http://www.publicpurpose.com/ut-lrt00capcost.htm
 
Mr. Conehead said:
Not exactly. One of the key reasons that the prior owners of the Red Sox sold the team was because they wanted a new stadium and couldn't get it done in the face of the quagmire that Boston politics are. There were 2 legitimate proposals for a new Fenway - one right next door and a second in Seaport district. Today's Fenway Park is just about maxed out with respect to the number of seats and amenities that can be put into its footprint and 110+ year old frame. When the next stadium arms race launches, the Sox maybe stuck.
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Sox are 4th in revenue at 370M/year even with a small park.
 
Webster Bank Arena in Bridgeport is a AHL arena...and like I said before the Barclays while I agree sucks for hockey is NO WHERE NEAR a glorified AHL arena. I'm not sure Wang is even the majority owner any more..I know he sold off some of the team. If you want to know what is going on with the Islanders lease at Barclays and the renovation at Nassau Coliseum try to follow the articles in Newsday....they have been and are spot on about the renovation project there and parts of the Islanders lease in Brooklyn. The Islanders are dealing right now with the fallout from moving to Brookyn with their fan base. I tell all my friends in the firehouse "you are lucky you can still take a train and see your team...they didn't move half way down the coast to another state" constantly. They are having a tough time getting over going to Brooklyn to see the team play...add that to the LIE/Expressway daily traffic nightmare and it explains it. They also didn't have the greatest attendance the last few years in Nassau anyway (when you can buy a ticket on stub hub for the Islanders cheaper than the Sound Tigers there is an issue). Of all the teams in the NHL that COULD (and this is a HUGE if) be "attainable" for Hartford..IMHO and I have said it before with their 5 year out it may be the Islanders. They aren't going back to Nassau..that place is being downsized to less than 14,000 (somewhere in the 13,000 range).
ct06111 said:
Oh my word, O.K. I take everything back I heard about the New Jersey Devils being in trouble.
I NEVER said the devils or the islanders are moving here. All I said was "give us 1 from the 3",. And then, All I said was "market? we are a better market than…."
That's it. I know our hockey market is debatable. I agree. Let's not go down that road.

I said ARI, FLA, CAR, NYI and "possibly" the devils are in trouble. What is "trouble"??? Trouble must mean different things to me and you. I was looking at attendance, I wasn't saying "OMG, the yotes, canes, panthers, isles, and devils are all possibly moving to Hartford". "Trouble" does not = moving trucks to me. We should build an arena that could possibly house an NHL team. This is being sold as a Uconn project and should really benefit Uconn, the student athletes, the fans, sports fandom overall, we can maybe get sellouts again, a better conference, etc. This is not being sold as an NHL arena. IF it happens, SWEET, awesome. I"m not counting on it, but trying to drum up support and not constant negativity even if it's reality.

O.K. I'll break down my story of how I heard it about the devils:
On fasttrak: Someone on the bus said: "Devils were at the BU game", I thought in my head… Scouts,
he said, nah, malloy was here, blah, blah, I thought, O.K. Maybe the AHL team. Nah, he said NJ is in trouble… End of story. I wrote a post about it here under: "rumor" and got a bunch of flak. Then I hear that podcast. I read about the 230 million in debt. Fan not liking the move to newark. I don't know much about NJ devils, but it seems the fans haven't been showing up and are near bottom in attendance. End of story… I then wrote what I wrote and then provided those links. I know NO more than that. They probably won' leave the rock. Sorry, probably wrong of me to assume trouble.

Barclays sucks for hockey. Saw the isles 2nd games there against WPG and the UConn game against ND. place sucks for hockey. FDNY99, really only like ~13,000 are acceptable for hockey. That is NOT acceptable for the NHL. Webster bank in bridgeport provides a better islander game day experience than Barlcays. Something needs to be done. I heard about this 5 year out clause, but islanders fans have no proof of it. Wang said it was "iron clad" for 25 year There is a NY Post article about a 5 year out clause, that's it. I don't trust the NY Post.

Dude, I really like this forum/board. I didn't go to Uconn. I never played hockey. The whalers left when I was 13 and was crushed. I stopped paying attention to the game until last year and started back up with Uconn's 1st hockey game in Hartford. I now have ST to hockey, football, soccer, and bball. Call me an idiot all you want brasssbonanzaaa. But it kinda sucks that I have to defend my posts everytime I post here about hockey. It sucks and starting to get old.
I try and research and inform myself as much as I can. typing on the phone at works sucks and it's hard to get out all my thoughts in a clear manner that makes sense. I know this is a lot, lets drop it, and I hope they build a respectable arena for both Uconn and the NHL.
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Here's my idea. Move the Isles to Bridgeport, build a pontoon bridge from Port Jefferson, and call them the Long Island Sounders!!!!
 
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Putting Barclay's seating issues aside for hockey, which I agree with, the Islanders will not be moving back to the renovated Nassau Coliseum as 1) its being downsized from 18 K to 13K, too small for an NHL team, and 2) the folks who own Barclay's are also leading the Colesium reconstruction and are not likely to shoot themselves in the rear.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/b...-130-million-makeover-fewer-seats-more-retail

PS - The entire project is projected to cost about $260 million with $130 of that going to the Coliseum renovation itself.
 
Mr. Conehead said:
Putting Barclay's seating issues aside for hockey, which I agree with, the Islanders will not be moving back to the renovated Nassau Coliseum as 1) its being downsized from 18 K to 13K, too small for an NHL team, and 2) the folks who own Barclay's are also leading the Colesium reconstruction and are not likely to shoot themselves in the rear.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/b...-130-million-makeover-fewer-seats-more-retail

PS - The entire project is projected to cost about $260 million with $130 of that going to the Coliseum renovation itself.
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They are also required to put a AHL team in there after the renovation is done
 
Wang gambled and put his faith into Nassau County politics instead of getting in on the Barclay's project. That arena is no where near hockey friendly but they have a sweetheart deal that ensures a profit no matter what. How about those clowns in Nassau County? What a bunch of clowns.
 
Didn't realize that Nassau revamp was so small, seems dumb to make an AHL/D-League arena that big. Either way, they're still not moving the Islanders to Hartford. No chance. Wouldn't shock me if they try and do major renovations to Barclays if they're going to stay there permanently. Don't know if that's doable, but the seating setup as it stands now is an abject disaster.
 
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