OT: World Cup

[housekeys]

CR7 is one of the greatest goal scorers, which automatically brings him up in greatest overall conversations. Goal scoring can not be minimized. It is, after all, what wins games. But, that is it. If you are looking at all other qualities of a great soccer player, including scoring. Messi is tops.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Messi is more technically gifted than either of them. The scary part is that Messi is on the wrong side of his prime. He was at his height between 2010-2016 IMO.

They’re all very different players. Mbappe and young CR7 are more athletic. Ronaldo had a 41” vertical and was great in the air. Mbappe is faster than either of them. Messi isn’t just a scorer he’s a hell of a passer. Played great defense today too, you rarely hear that about CR7.

Mbappe will be fun to watch for years. These guys are all amazing.

 

[shizzle787]

CR7 is one of the greatest goal scorers, which automatically brings him up in greatest overall conversations. Goal scoring can not be minimized. It is, after all, what wins games. But, that is it. If you are looking at all other qualities of a great soccer player, including scoring. Messi is tops.

Exactly. His goals (while he is very skilled) are more about power than anything else. Players like Messi, Brazilian Ronaldo, Cruyff, Ronaldinho, Cantona, Bergkamp, etc. were about finesse.

 

[housekeys]

I’m not a soccer guy, but that was amazing.

Does the US have any players that could have started on either team today.

Yes. France's Dembele (sp?) was horrible. I think I can safely say the US has at least 1 (sic) player. USA is getting there.

 

[shizzle787]

Yes. France's Dembele (sp?) was horrible. I think I can safely say the US has at least 1 (sic) player. USA is getting there.

Probably McKennie or Dest.

 

[John]

I’m not a soccer guy, but that was amazing.

Does the US have any players that could have started on either team today.

Does the US have any players that'd even be rostered on either team today.

 

[ZooCougar]

Probably McKennie or Dest.

McKennie no. But Adams, Musah and Dest,

I think Pulisic could have been more impactful than Dembele.

 

[ZooCougar]

Does the US have any players that'd even be rostered on either team today.

Definitely. Come on. There is an MLS guy on Argentina’s roster who had minutes in this tournament.

 

[Kolumbo]

They’re all very different players. Mbappe and young CR7 are more athletic. Ronaldo had a 41” vertical and was great in the air. Mbappe is faster than either of them. Messi isn’t just a scorer he’s a hell of a passer. Played great defense today too, you rarely hear that about CR7.

Mbappe will be fun to watch for years. These guys are all amazing.

I try to watch Messi no matter where the ball is because he is like soccer mensa. He walks, jogs, and with every touch he delivers dimes whether in tight spaces or across the pitch. Or he puts it in gear and you never know what you will see him do with the ball. Amazing.

 

[superjohn]

Messi. The debate should be ended. Mbappe is special and he has the next ten years to make his case.

Messi as in the best of all-time, debate should be ended?

You're just talking about the Messi Christiano Ronaldo debate, right?

 

[ZooCougar]

I try to watch Messi no matter where the ball is because he is like soccer mensa. He walks, jogs, and with every touch he delivers dimes whether in tight spaces or across the pitch. Or he puts it in gear and you never know what you will see him do with the ball. Amazing.

He said he knows what he is doing with the ball before he ever gets it.

I read somewhere where once that what separates the greatest athletes from the regular elites is that they can anticipate what is going to happen better than anyone else.

He is a true genius of the game. Beyond his creative ability the ball just seems to follow him around. his control is effortless.

 

[ZooCougar]

Messi as in the best of all-time, debate should be ended?

You're just talking about the Messi Christiano Ronaldo debate, right?

Yup.

 

[LIuconn]

Tottenham-Ajax in Amsterdam the best match I’ve seen but I’m biased

 

[superjohn]

Yup.

It seems to be Pelé and Messi as the two greatest ever.

You clearly watch a ton of soccer and know a lot about it. Where do you rank Zidane and Modrić all-time? Are they the two best midfielders?

Mbappe is unbelievable to me. I knew he was still young but only 23 years old, sheesh. He sure looks like he'll be in the conversation for the best of all-time barring no major injuries.

 

[mac2351]

These all time great debates are silly.

If time machines existed and Pele was brought to 2022 in his 1960 form he wouldn’t be able to compete today.

The improvements in strength training, nutrition, and skills today are in another universe compared to the past.

The worst NBA, NFL, NHL player today would be a hall of famer if he played 60, 50, or 40 years ago.

 

[superjohn]

These all time great debates are silly.

If time machines existed and Pele was brought to 2022 in his 1960 form he wouldn’t be able to compete today.

The improvements in strength training, nutrition, and skills today are in another universe compared to the past.

The worst NBA, NFL, NHL player today would be a hall of famer if he played 60, 50, or 40 years ago.

You judge them on how much better they were than their competition. Sure, the drugs, nutrition, and other things have advanced but I still remember watching video of Pelè training and going the full length of the field in a full on sprint with the ball on him and the ball never touching the ground. That guy was unreal.

 

[ZooCougar]

These all time great debates are silly.

If time machines existed and Pele was brought to 2022 in his 1960 form he wouldn’t be able to compete today.

The improvements in strength training, nutrition, and skills today are in another universe compared to the past.

The worst NBA, NFL, NHL player today would be a hall of famer if he played 60, 50, or 40 years ago.

If Pele had the benefit of today’s science and sport medicine he would be a beast. This post is crazy.

 

[mac2351]

There’s a massive difference between being the best of your competition versus all time.

 

[ZooCougar]

It seems to be Pelé and Messi as the two greatest ever.

You clearly watch a ton of soccer and know a lot about it. Where do you rank Zidane and Modrić all-time? Are they the two best midfielders?

Mbappe is unbelievable to me. I knew he was still young but only 23 years old, sheesh. He sure looks like he'll be in the conversation for the best of all-time barring no major injuries.

I put Zidane a little above Modric. But it’s like choosing between your two favorite beers or candy,

Zidane was kind of mesmerizing at times. And I saw him play in person in 2002 so I have a bias.
Zidane was also the biggest name in the game for a while.

I think the thing Zidane and Modric suffer from is not being forwards. We get so focused on goal scoring. Which is understandable but we also overlook achievements on the other parts of the field.

 

[superjohn]

I put Zidane a little above Modric. But it’s like choosing between your two favorite beers or candy,

Zidane was kind of mesmerizing at times. And I saw him play in person in 2002 so I have a bias.
Zidane was also the biggest name in the game for a while.

I think the thing Zidane and Modric suffer from is not being forwards. We get so focused on goal scoring. Which is understandable but we also overlook achievements on the other parts of the field.

Couldn't agree more with all of this. I get it with the goal scorers getting the acclaim because goals are at such a premium but guys like Zidane and Modric control the whole game, it's incredible one player can do that.

Zidane was my favorite player ever to watch.

 

[mac2351]

If Pele had the benefit of today’s science and sport medicine he would be a beast. This post is crazy.

That’s not how it works.

 

[ZooCougar]

Couldn't agree more with all of this. I get it with the goal scorers getting the acclaim because goals are at such a premium but guys like Zidane and Modric control the whole game, it's incredible one player can do that.

Zidane was my favorite player ever to watch.

I think his vision is what makes him such a good manager too.

 

[LIuconn]

Zidane and many very good former players have made fine managers. Soccers different in that athleticism isn’t an overwhelming attribute

However the best managers today were not top top level players: pep, klopp, berhalter, etc

 

[meyers7]

So the flopping and time delay, especially prominant among South American teams, is good/acceptable for the game? I fully agree with Hawk on that one. 80% of the guys that pull this crap are up and sprinting as soon as they are ignored or threatened with the gurney. I have been involved with the game going on 40 years and there is a growing sentiment in Europe to force the federation to install corrective actions on the flopping beyond an isolated yellow warning.

No, his ideas on how to fix the problem are very poor ideas.

 

[ColchVEGAS]

Good to see Messi get his WC. I think we may have seen a torch passing from Messi to Mbappe. The sky is the limit for Mbappe.

 

[HuskyHawk]

McKennie no. But Adams, Musah and Dest,

I think Pulisic could have been more impactful than Dembele.

Adams stands out to me as a guy who'd play. Dest when he's in his best form. He wasn't in this WC.

I don't think this is controversial, but people may look at national teams as "all star" teams, and they are, sort of. But not to the extent that Manchester City, or PSG etc. are. I mean, PSG has Messi, Mbappe and Neymar.

 

[LIuconn]

And psg hasn’t won CL with that lineup

 

[John]

And psg hasn’t won CL with that lineup

it's like the Yankee rent-an-allstar teams that constantly undewhelmed before they got home-grown youth talent to blend in with the all-stars.

 

[ZooCougar]

And psg hasn’t won CL with that lineup

They play in kids league.

 

[HuskyHawk]

They play in kids league.

Marseilles used to be good. Not anymore? I don't follow the league but agree they aren't going to be tested as often.