WNBA vs. WCBB: Why The Negativity Towards The Pro League?

[JoePgh]

In the winter, I am a UConn WCBB season ticketholder, and in the summer I am a Connecticut Sun season ticketholder, so I feel qualified to comment on this topic. I do not understand why so many WCBB fans, including UConn fans and even some Boneyarders, take a sneering attitude toward the basketball played in the WNBA.

First of all (and I think this is undeniable), the quality of basketball played in the WNBA is amazing. Just about every game is at the competitive level of the college Final Four, and every WNBA team has at least three or four players on its bench who are nearly as good as the starters. Even the worst WNBA team (which this year is the Indiana Fever, with a record of 5-29) has very good players on its roster, including Kelsey Mitchell and Tiffany Mitchell (of tOSU and South Carolina heritage) as well as young players like NaLyssa Smith, Destanni Henderson, Emily Engstler, and Lexie Hull.

Second, the W is much more competitive than even the best WCBB conferences. There are no 40-point blowouts in the WNBA. Even when bad teams play good teams, they can usually keep the margin of victory or loss within 10 points. Indiana (the worst team) got a victory against Chicago (the best team) this year. Even the top teams have 9 to 12 losses in a 36-game season -- you never see 32-4 records, much less undefeated seasons.

Third, the style of basketball (contrary to rumors) is usually very focused on sharing the ball and making good passes for assists. The ratio of assists to made baskets is normally what you would see in a UConn or Notre Dame game. Of course, players with amazing one-on-one skills get to use those skills, but overall (and perhaps unlike the NBA) the games do not revolve around isolating the team's best player for one-on-one scoring opportunities. Players who are excellent playmakers get to show those skills, as anyone can see by watching Sue Bird or Sabrina Ionescu play in a WNBA game.

It would be fair to say that the top level of WCBB is like a AAA minor league team in baseball -- not nearly competitive in terms of talent or experience to a WNBA (i.e., major league) team, but interesting to see future major league talent in a state of development.

So why do so many WCBB fans not like the WNBA???

 

[eebmg]

Totally agree. I would add that a healthy WNBA helps the WCBB game to grow as well with the most talented players motived to excel with the draw of a professional career.

I am guessing that the biggest negative is the excessive complaining of the players to every foul call but you would think that might provide common ground.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Two thoughts, neither of which has to do with the game itself.

First, I have a few suspicions that reduce to the fact that a lot of pro sports fans have quasi-Don Imus-like attitudes about the W. They are not trying to project a stereotyped "girl next door" image, and the players are much less representative of America as a whole than in the college game. I think a certain subset of sports fans are mildly hostile for this reason alone. (Plus there are a lot of insecure straight men who have trouble with the idea of rooting for a 6'6" woman who could kick their in two seconds flat.)

Second, and to me, the biggest knock is the constant (reasonable, but I think sometimes counterproductive) griping about planes, travel, conditions, salaries, etc. It's just not a good look. You get very little sympathy from sports fans and it serves as a constant reminder that the league is something of a red-headed ugly stepchild. And it's practically an invitation for the haters to point out the league doesn't make much money.

Instead, I'd say they should project the image they want others to adopt - that the women of the W are capital G gritty and will move heaven and earth for the win. (For example, contrast how much the women in the W moan about a single flight cancelation versus how Tara and Stanford WBB cast their inability to live or practice at Stanford for three months during the 20-21 season as the adversity that fueled them to a national championship.)

It's not unreasonable for them to strive for better travel conditions, but airing their dirty laundry in public all the time just makes the whole league seem vaguely unprofessional and harder to get excited about.

 

[Huskee11]

I am also a UConn season ticket holder. I am not a Connecticut Sun season ticket holder but I do try and see the Sun play at least once a year.

I do not dislike the WNBA or take a “sneering” attitude toward it. On the contrary, I recognize it as far and away the best women’s basketball league in the world. The quality of play is amazing and the games are interesting to watch. And the games are fairly well attended and I see plenty of fans that are very much invested in the fortunes of their team. Personally, I tend to root for the UConn players on the floor more than anything else.

But I do prefer the college game to the pro game. I think the major reason is I see college games as competitions between programs, while the WNBA is competitions between teams. That is especially true in the case of UConn, clearly a program if there ever was one. With programs, there is deeper team loyalty, deeper team connection, more of a history, deeper rivalries. All that jazz.

There is also the special case of UConn, its amazing brand, and an emotional investment in being a UConn fan that I can`t imagine having for a WNBA team.

Undoubtedly the issue plays out differently outside of the UConn bubble we are all living in.

I guess what I am really saying is that I am a UConn WBB fan first, and a WBB fan second. If UConn suddenly decided to eliminate women`s basketball, I would still follow women’s college and pro hoops but not as closely and likely with much less emotional investment.

 

[Skeets]

I am also a UConn season ticket holder. I am not a Connecticut Sun season ticket holder but I do try and see the Sun play at least once a year.

I do not dislike the WNBA or take a “sneering” attitude toward it. On the contrary, I recognize it as far and away the best women’s basketball league in the world. The quality of play is amazing and the games are interesting to watch. And the games are fairly well attended and I see plenty of fans that are very much invested in the fortunes of their team. Personally, I tend to root for the UConn players on the floor more than anything else.

But I do prefer the college game to the pro game. I think the major reason is I see college games as competitions between programs, while the WNBA is competitions between teams. That is especially true in the case of UConn, clearly a program if there ever was one. With programs, there is deeper team loyalty, deeper team connection, more of a history, deeper rivalries. All that jazz.

There is also the special case of UConn, its amazing brand, and an emotional investment in being a UConn fan that I can`t imagine having for a WNBA team.

Undoubtedly the issue plays out differently outside of the UConn bubble we are all living in.

I guess what I am really saying is that I am a UConn WBB fan first, and a WBB fan second. If UConn suddenly decided to eliminate women`s basketball, I would still follow women’s college and pro hoops but not as closely and likely with much less emotional investment.

I'm also a UConn season ticket holder, but not the WNBA. I agree with what you said, but let me take it a step further. I have a connection with UConn BB because they are "my kids". That connection doesn't exist for me with the WNBA, well maybe a little bit with former UConn players. But in general, nope, no connection.

 

[oldude]

I think the attitude towards WBB is not confined to the WNBA. UConn, TN, SC and Iowa are among the exceptions in WBB, possessing passionate fan bases that support their respective teams. On many college campuses, even those with perennially strong teams, support for WBB is limited. The same is largely true for women’s soccer, softball and other sports.

In 1972 Title 9 finally provided equal opportunity to female athletes in this country. Unfortunately it could not also guarantee equality in the minds of sports fans.

 

[jdote33]

Two thoughts, neither of which has to do with the game itself.

First, I have a few suspicions that reduce to the fact that a lot of pro sports fans have quasi-Don Imus-like attitudes about the W. They are not trying to project a stereotyped "girl next door" image, and the players are much less representative of America as a whole than in the college game. I think a certain subset of sports fans are mildly hostile for this reason alone. (Plus there are a lot of insecure straight men who have trouble with the idea of rooting for a 6'6" woman who could kick their in two seconds flat.)

Second, and to me, the biggest knock is the constant (reasonable, but I think sometimes counterproductive) griping about planes, travel, conditions, salaries, etc. It's just not a good look. You get very little sympathy from sports fans and it serves as a constant reminder that the league is something of a red-headed ugly stepchild. And it's practically an invitation for the haters to point out the league doesn't make much money.

Instead, I'd say they should project the image they want others to adopt - that the women of the W are capital G gritty and will move heaven and earth for the win. (For example, contrast how much the women in the W moan about a single flight cancelation versus how Tara and Stanford WBB cast their inability to live or practice at Stanford for three months during the 20-21 season as the adversity that fueled them to a national championship.)

It's not unreasonable for them to strive for better travel conditions, but airing their dirty laundry in public all the time just makes the whole league seem vaguely unprofessional and harder to get excited about.

Thanks for this post as I've been thinking about this topic recently and couldn't really articulate my thoughts about the constant grumbling. Like WNBA players dislike the WNBA it seems. I get that they are trying to make things better but they are so public about their disgust and what needs to improve, which I don't think helps public perception. I think many players focus on the negative and the ignorant views about their league which I can imagine is somewhat hard not to. But I still feel like it's a successful league, with a lot of talent. IYKYK. There are probably many but I can't think of a player who is outspoken about their love playing for league and the team. But I can think of several who talk about the opposite.

I think women's college basketball is super special and has something the men's side doesn't have for better or worse, as u really do get to watch kids grow for four years. Teams really feel like teams. And everyone seems invested. I feel a bit conflicted about the last point as I get older. I dont know if everything matters as much to a pro which is probably healthy psychologically for pro players lol. It is just a game I guess and even Geno said the title loss won't fuel a team the whole season because of so many competing interest. Sometimes on the men's side recently I just think they make so much money and have side ventures that the game and their team doesn't really matter to them. Even the WNBA, players play for other leagues, have other commitments to their national team. Don't have strong ties to a city.

As other post have astutely pointed out u r following a program with history, and school pride is just different. I think sue bird made this point, like I'd still rep my middle school if I could. Lol. I didn't go to UConn but my big bro did and I always liked it so I always joke I'm UConn affiliated. Sorry for the rant.

 

[CTrefugee]

Why does this matter? It is a game. If you like it, then good. If not, then fine. I have never understood why anyone not directly involved cares if the WNBA succeeds and about how much players make.

I enjoy some WCBB and a once in a while WNBA game. I don't enjoy most NBA games because the athletes are now so good that they have "outgrown" the game. I do love and identify with UCONN WBB because of the culture created by the coaches and the wonderful women who have gone through the program.

 

[SVCBeercats]

So why do so many WCBB fans not like the WNBA???

Why do you say fans don't like the WNBA? Perhaps it's indifference? Summer time is for being outside, not being inside watching a basketball game. The younger fans are probably more interested in playing the game in the summer, not being inside watching a game on TV or streaming or even in an arena. College basketball has the ultimate in March madness which attracts more people then the NBA finals. The NBA fans are attracted to the ultra athleticism and entertainment value which the WNBA cannot match. In a NBA they will see something athletically spectacular many times in a game. I think your answer may lie in the why the WNBA's season is in the summer. Move the WNBA to the late fall and winter and see how it does against the NBA and both men's and women's college basketball. The WNBA is between a rock and a hard spot.

 

[Viet Vet]

It starts with the ball itself. Screams "Mickey Mouse", minor league, gimmick.

 

[Bone Dog]

I don't enjoy most NBA games because the athletes are now so good that they have "outgrown" the game.

This is sort of how I feel about the NBA too. It’s like there’s nothing exciting and new about it. When I was a kid, the pros were constantly doing unheard of things. One example: Earl Monroe shocked everyone with new moves, and in my neighborhood all the kids spent the summers trying to imitate them. Or, Julius Erving brought a brand new magic to the court. The Celtics taught the league a style of interior passing that was stunning, and Magic took it to another level and a great rivalry began with Larry Bird. The league was full of marvels.

Maybe I’m just old and jaded, but I don’t see that sort of energy and innovation anymore. Kids can still emulate the current stars because it’s all new to them. But it looks like the same old thing to me. MCBB feels like this too, though there is something charming about the energy of the players.

But WCBB has recaptured something of the energy and grit of the old NBA. The skill sets are different. But the commitment among the best teams to an older sort of teamwork and intensity is wonderful to see. When I watch UConn or SC or Stanford just to name a few, it feels to me like the old Celtics-Lakers rivalry. It isn’t just Paige who embodies this form of the game — Caitlin Clark, Haley Jones, Ashley Joens, Aaliyah Boston are like this too, and many others. Azzi and Caroline are cut from this same mold. The energy around WCBB is special, and you can really see it in the best players.

It has something to do with the coaches, too. It feels like in the last decade or so, an infusion of new blood in the D1 ranks — more women who played at the highest levels are now coaching and bringing a higher sense of the game to their recruits. It was Geno and Tara and Pat who taught this new generation and it’s wonderful to see.

 

[Bald Husky]

The WNBA is my UConn WBB fix during the summer months. I usually take in about 3 Sun games a year, and the competition is always really good. When the Sun first came to town (relocated Orlando Miracle), the fans seemed to crave and support former UConn players, and I think the organization tried to attract them. After a while, the fan base started to support the non-UConn players, learning to root for players that they didn't know, or rooted against when they were UConn adversaries in college. The fan base has come a long way, and now the Sun have a very loyal fan base that has zero UConn connections. When former UConn players visit Mohegan Sun Arena, they are greeted very warmly, but once the game begins, they are the enemy, and are treated as such. The pro game is a whole different experience, but for me, being able to keep basketball competition alive throughout the year helps this old guy get through the long hot summer. I love UConn more, but I also love our only pro team in Connecticut.

 

[VaConnFan11]

I find both the NBA and WNBA hard to watch. They're mostly one-on-one basketball.

I would like the WNBA to experiment with lowering the rim to 9 feet. Do people want to see a break-away lay up or a break-away dunk? Break-away layups rarely make ESPN highlights. Highlights are how you get the average sport's fan interested in a sport.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

I think for me the WNBA isn't as interesting as WCBB for a few reasons. First, there just isn't enough differentiation between the teams, or the games. Since the WNBA has so few teams, and the talent is high overall, one just doesn't see the standout games, the blowouts, or games in which the superstars really shine. One sees that all the time in WCBB, but not the pros. One doesn't get the 50-point games by a superstar, or the flamboyant play that one might see in the NBA.

I find WCBB far more interesting than MCBB, because players, at least in the past, have remained with their teams longer, play a more disciplined team game, and their style of play really shines. The men's game seems to be just a half step above pick-up games on the playground. No skills, no teamwork, lots of uncoordinated, one-on-one play. Perhaps that's why so many NBA teams are relying on highly skilled European pros, who come up through the ranks of pro clubs from their early teens.

I will watch the WNBA to see UConn stars, but just not exciting enough to follow regularly.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The WNBA is a subsidized experiment in its 24th (?) year with a restrictive salary cap and roster limit. You see management make dumb moves almost on a monthly basis. Many fine WCBB players have no real shot at the WNBA. Attendance in the WNBA has stagnated. The players are fine, but it is hard to take the WNBA seriously.

Loved reading this thread. Lots of fine analysis.

 

[Majic Hands]

For me, a UConn WBB fan I get to watch some very talented "kids""girls" learn to play basketball at a high level, grow into young women while playing the most amazing game in the world, be played, below the rim.

Then they graduate. They move on in their lives as women and I wish them all the best life they can create.

I'm no more interested in watching women at work playing basketball than watching some women at work who decided to be a chemist.

Perhaps we need a thread because we don't understand why some people don't use as much turquoise in their water colors as someone else does. There probably something wrong with people who don't use a lot of turquoise?

 

[boontonbomber]

It starts with the ball itself. Screams "Mickey Mouse", minor league, gimmick.

What about the ball?

 

[boontonbomber]

For me, a UConn WBB fan I get to watch some very talented "kids""girls" learn to play basketball at a high level, grow into young women while playing the most amazing game in the world, be played, below the rim.

Then they graduate. They move on in their lives as women and I wish them all the best life they can create.

I'm no more interested in watching women at work playing basketball than watching some women at work who decided to be a chemist.

Perhaps we need a thread because we don't understand why some people don't use as much turquoise in their water colors as someone else does. There probably something wrong with people who don't use a lot of turquoise?

You're missing out on watching these young women taking their games a step or two further. Catch Seattle with Gabby, Breanna, Tina and Sue starting, along with Jewell Loyd. Different era UConn players playing together is great fun to watch, all of them better than they were at UConn. Especially Gabby.

 

[eebmg]

You're missing out on watching these young women taking their games a step or two further. Catch Seattle with Gabby, Breanna, Tina and Sue starting, along with Jewell Loyd. Different era UConn players playing together is great fun to watch, all of them better than they were at UConn. Especially Gabby.

and I will add non UConn players who had to claw their way onto teams to carve out a role. Very happy to see Megan Gustafson have a career best game for the Mercury. She was a great fundamental finisher in Iowa and she is just now getting into her groove with the same fundamental play in the WNBA

And as much as Cuningham may get under your skin, she has turned into quite the impressive player

and many others.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I like the WNBA. Back when we were in NJ and had season tix for the first 11 years of the league, it was great. Also really enjoyed - really enjoyed - the probably 8 to 10 Mercury games we have attended since we were in Arizona.

But here is some reasons why I remotely follow the WNBA and closely follow the college game:

- The reason we gave up our Liberty tickets was the slog into Manhattan; Phoenix is a haul just for a game and generally entailed staying overnight. College - both Rutgers in NJ and Arizona here are less than 30 minutes away. The ability to see some games live is part of the appeal for WBB, at least for me. I do watch plenty of other sports, and not attend, but it affects me in WBB.

- I just don't feel connected to a team, really. I (in the abstract) root for the Merc and Libs, but the ever changing rosters and coaches just don't lead to the connection I feel with the college team, where the players seem to be a continuum. Of course, the portal is making an issue of this, for example, I have continued to follow Rutgers since we left 11 years ago, and last year was the first time I could not really identify the mish-mosh of players coming and going.

- The summer is my sports "break" these days. I watch tons of football, tons of college WBB, a lot of softball and occasional other things during the school year; just not feeling the need to tape and watch WNBA games, but by not watching, it disconnects me.

No, the other comments regarding players speaking up about the poor travel conditions or social issues does not have anything to do with it. In fact, regarding travel, they have a very good point. And if they do not make it public, it will not change. Even Rutgers and Arizona have chartered, on occasion, for a reason, and I'm pretty sure UConn does as well. To be forbidden from taking a charter "because they might get used to it", regardless of the reason for taking the charter, is ridiculous.

 

[boontonbomber]

and I will add non UConn players who had to claw their way onto teams to carve out a role. Very happy to see Megan Gustafson have a career best game for the Mercury. She was a great fundamental finisher in Iowa and she is just now getting into her groove with the same fundamental play in the WNBA

And as much as Cuningham may get under your skin, she has turned into quite the impressive player

and many others.

I agree, that it is really enjoyable to watch players like Gustafson battle their way to this next level. Very few are able to step right in( Rhyne Howard, Shakira Austin are exceptions). But now a lot of the teams are stacked with players who really can play the game. The shooting, the quickness, the jumping ability , the defensive intensity, are just so impressive. Other than UConn, I find it hard to watch college games. But I can watch most any WNBA game and find multiple players that I enjoy seeing play. And they weren't necessarily the best college players. I think Kahleah Copper is a great example of a good college player who has become a really good pro.

 

[Jim]

I actually do watch the WNBA when I can and I particularly follow teams with former UCONN players. But my biggest gripe is in the scheduling of games. There is no rhythm or pattern to the schedule which would allow some like me (who still works at an office during the day) to watch many games. Because they seem cheap with their travel budget, they have teams play for three consecutive days and the are off for 10 days. And what gives with the 11am or 1pm weekday games? There is no way anyone who works can follow their team.

It is not that I show distain for the W, but it does appear whoever makes up the schedule completely ignores my demographic.

 

[Stymie]

As for me- I don’t enjoy the quality of the WNBA.
I also do not enjoy the NBA
Watch WNBA once in a while.
NBA- never.
Sorry in advance.

 

[eebmg]

I actually do watch the WNBA when I can and I particularly follow teams with former UCONN players. But my biggest gripe is in the scheduling of games. There is no rhythm or pattern to the schedule which would allow some like me (who still works at an office during the day) to watch many games. Because they seem cheap with their travel budget, they have teams play for three consecutive days and the are off for 10 days. And what gives with the 11am or 1pm weekday games? There is no way anyone who works can follow their team.

It is not that I show distain for the W, but it does appear whoever makes up the schedule completely ignores my demographic.

Not sure about the general schedule issues. I am not particularly sensitive to stuff like that but those weekday 1pm games are "camp" days where they try to fill the arena with camp kids to spark interest and reach out to the community and hope to attract young fans. I think they do it only 1 or 2 games in the season.

I also see that the schedule issues and the TV coverage has improved towards the end of season. I assume that is a direct consequence of more meaningful games being played towards the playoff hunt.

I am going to enjoy the Aces - Sky game as they fight for best record.

 

[Cuango]

I guess I’ll have to disagree with most here. While I enjoy WCBB ((especially UConn) and (to a slightly lesser extent) MCBB, I can hardly stand to watch either the NBA or the WNBA. I just can’t get past the hypocrisy, the constant whining and the unbelievable arrogance that imo is so rampant in those two leagues. I concede that there are exceptions to this but, not enough imo to make me want to watch/attend games. I do keep a nominal eye on UConn players and root for their success and happiness but beyond that, I’ll pass. For me, a large part of my enjoyment comes from actually liking, admiring and respecting the athletes that I’m watching. I find that I feel those emotions to a very high degree in college, high school sports and not so much with the pros.