WNBA Draft Lottery Aug 28

[CamrnCrz1974]

Well you must not have watched Kalani because at 6'7 she can hit from 15 foot on the regular last season. Yes she had games where she missed, but some games would hit consistently. I still think you go for the Bigs and either trade or go with KLS.

I watched Kalani Brown quite a bit last year. She had the ability to hit occasional open shots. But she did not do so consistently enough to make that a potential weapon in the W, nor could she create a mid-range shot off the dribble. And it was also quite clear that Lauren Cox was much more of a midrange and outside threat than Kalani.

I think you're short changing Wilson. I think given like Griner she will develop over the next few seasons and play the four position a lot better. Other than her who do they have to depend on?

Griner has not played the four. Griner has never been the four for Phoenix. Griner has added range to her shot (though she had started some of that in her last two seasons with Baylor). She can score over both shoulders, using her hook shot. She can also turnaround and fade away from further away from the basket. She can hit set shots from the elbow.

But she is not a power forward, even with all of that development.

Wilson proved that she can overpower people in the post with her physique and use of force (she has much greater lower body strength than Griner, as an aside, who can be moved more easily off her base than Wilson).

But Wilson is not a power forward.

Also, wasn't Lambier a post? So who better to help develop both.

Dawn Staley was a point guard. Yet she has yet to develop any WNBA-level point guard in her entire tenure of coaching.

The mere fact that he was a post player does not necessarily make him the best person at player development. Certainly that reason alone is not sufficient (as evidence by my Dawn Staley example).

Also, Laimbeer was a center, not a power forward

I don't care enough to send half my day collecting the data, I'm just giving my opinion. If you can someone else with size to go against the likes Cambage or Griner, why not?

Cambage may not even play in the WNBA next year.

Head-to-head this year (four games), Wilson averaged 21.25 ppg, 9 rpg, and 3 apg, while Griner put up 21.75 ppg, 11, rpg, 2.5 apg. Those are remarkably even numbers -- and even more impressive when you consider that Wilson is a rookie, while Griner just finished her 6th WNBA season.

The bigger problem for Las Vegas (who lost the season series to Phoenix, 3-1) was that Diana Taurasi averaged 30.75 ppg in those four games (and averaged 3 made threes and 10 made free throws in each of the four games).

As for the argument about having someone else with size to go against Cambage or Griner, it does not matter if that player cannot score against Cambage/Griner or stop Cambage/Griner from scoring.

In the professional ranks, you draft the best player available at the top and find a way to make it work. I f there is no consensus as the best available player or if there is no transcendental player (and there is not in 2019), then you consider getting assets and value and building for the long term. If Vegas can get Napheesa Collier, plus another first round draft pick, that will be more beneficial to Vegas in the long term.

 

[Shades]

I respectfully disagree. I believe the player chosen should be Collier for Las Vegas, but not at #2.

I see her more as a SF utility forward in the WNBA, like Tuck .

Here is the question - is A'ja Wilson really a four?

Most people, including me and Wilson herself, seem to think so.

In terms of minutes this year, Las Vegas looked like this (without factoring in total games played, though outside of Jefferson, every player played in at least 24 games):

1. A'ja Wilson - 30.6
2. Kayla McBride - 32.3
3. Tamera Young - 26.7
4. Kelsey Plum - 25.5
5. Dearica Hamby - 14.4
6. Moriah Jefferson - 15.7
7. Nia Coffey - 13.8
8. Carolyn Swords - 14.4
9. Lindsay Allen - 14.9
10. Kelsey Bone - 10.8
11. JiSu Park - 13.0

Look, the minutes of the three centers add up to over 38 minutes. No coincidence. Even though Swords came on stronger at the end of the season, this shows that none of the centers were deserving of starter minutes. I think Laimbeer will see that as a problem, one that he can at least try to solve through the draft, unless some team is going to trade a solid vet center to him.

And there were times that a default center started for defensive purposes against some of the really talented veteran centers.

There were times, as in every game?

But Las Vegas needs the second front court player - whether a forward or center - to be able to contribute both offensively and defensively. Swords, Bone, and Park could not do that.

Somebody who can dominate rebounding and clean up the misses on offense isn’t such a bad gameplan.

Kalani Brown and Teaira McCowan have yet to show their ability to be anything other than centers. They do not have the ability to face-up and hit outside shots on a consistent basis.

What’s wrong with being a center? It’s the position of need for Vegas.

If I were AFO/Bill Laimbeer, I would consider trading a few spots down and looking at Napheesa Collier or Ezi Magbegor

. Collier will fit well next to Wilson and has expanded range, passing abilities, good athleticism, and the ability to be a primary or secondary scorer (though she is only 6-1/6-2). If Laimbeer wants to take a chance on Magbegor as a young, but incredibly athletic face-up 4 with quick 1st step attacking abilities at 6-4 (but does not yet have the shooting range), that could also be a very good pick a few years down the road.

I consider Collier too small for a WNBA PF. Magbegor could be interesting since they actually consider her a center, but she’s of slender build. So for the WNBA, she’d be a center along the lines of maybe Howard or Sanders.

The bigger question is if we assume that Las Vegas gets the #2 pick, with which team could a trade be made.

None. He should keep the pick for one of the bigs.

 

[DallasBUFan]

I see her more as a SF utility forward in the WNBA, like Tuck .



View attachment 33985

Most people, including me and Wilson herself, seem to think so.





Look, the minutes of the three centers add up to over 38 minutes. No coincidence. Even though Swords came on stronger at the end of the season, this shows that none of the centers were deserving of starter minutes. I think Laimbeer will see that as a problem, one that he can at least try to solve through the draft, unless some team is going to trade a solid vet center to him.



There were times, as in every game?



Somebody who can dominate rebounding and clean up the misses on offense isn’t such a bad gameplan.



What’s wrong with being a center? It’s the position of need for Vegas.



I consider Collier too small for a WNBA PF. Magbegor could be interesting since they actually consider her a center, but she’s of slender build. So for the WNBA, she’d be a center along the lines of maybe Howard or Sanders.



None. He should keep the pick for one of the bigs.

THANK YOU!!! Those were the points I had, but am working today and did not have the time or energy to put into this.

I feel like you're expecting A 6'7 21 year old to be pro ready. She is awkward and still learning her body and developing. Lauren is also smaller than Brown so it's a little easier to move around than someone like Brown is 6'7 who is akward. Also, Kalani has more of a mid range developed than Griner did at this point. I just don't agree with the idea that they don't need a big center. Look at how well the Bonner- Griner combo is working and Stewart- Howard. If they drafted Brown she could take the largest post player defensively and pull them out of the paint where then Wilson can go to work on the probably smaller forward. I watched Brown in every televised game and in person games. I do not think you're giving her the credit. Give either of them another year in college and a year or two in the pro's and you'll see more from both.

You put Wilson with Brown who knows how to pass well out of double teams and work well with a dominant post they can be the 1-2 punch that is needed to help elevate them into playoffs next year. Especially if Jefferson, McBride, and Plum all come back healthy and firing on all cylinders this team may push into top 6.

 

[DallasBUFan]

I tend to think that the 2 bigs should go at or near the top. But a lot will depend on their senior seasons. Both have improved a lot, especially McCowan (she was way more raw so had more room to improve), but their draft stock will depend on how GM's think they will fare in the league. Just because they are big does not mean they will be good (prime example - Kelly Cain - 6'6" center chosen #7 by NYL). There are other bigs (Allyssa DeHaan for example) who never panned out, or in Allyssa's case, were never drafted.

I get that GM's need to go for need and what not, but really talented 6'6"+ players with talent and potential do not grow on trees. I love my Lou and Pheesa, but unless I had 2-3 ELITE post players right now, I'd draft Brown or McCowan ahead of my UCONN ladies. But they have to also have discussions with the coaches and players on the current roster to see how potential draftees would work out on the team.

There will be much more debate once the draft order is set...

I don't think they go wrong with if they ended up with KLS, but if you are first or second pick I'd draft a big and then call up someone like NY who could use a large center. Plus, pro is in Brown's pedigree.

 

[Shades]

McCowan played all 45 minutes of an OT game against a quality Louisville team to take her team to the NCAA Finals. She had 21 pts, 25 reb, plus 3 blk. How does that compare to Kelly Cain, who only used 3 years of eligibility and had career averages 8.6 ppg and 6.2 rpg?

 

[Reypl21]

I don't think they go wrong with if they ended up with KLS, but if you are first or second pick I'd draft a big and then call up someone like NY who could use a large center. Plus, pro is in Brown's pedigree.

I was always on the boat for LV getting KLS. But after reading some of these comments, I think getting Brown might be even better. I'm imagining her and Cox' inside-out game, and just inserting Wilson into the picture. I recently watched the Oregon St/Baylor game on YouTube. And I thought that Cox had a good game and had not face up moments. Brown nor her man really got in the way. Wilson is an even more deadly face up player.

 

[DallasBUFan]

I was always on the boat for LV getting KLS. But after reading some of these comments, I think getting Brown might be even better. I'm imagining her and Cox' inside-out game, and just inserting Wilson into the picture. I recently watched the Oregon St/Baylor game on YouTube. And I thought that Cox had a good game and had not face up moments. Brown nor her man really got in the way. Wilson is an even more deadly face up player.

That is what I am saying. If Kalani can really hit a 15 footer consistently then maybe she could eventually develop a 3 point shot and same for Wilson. Let them both develop and man that could be a tough and deadly interior.

I thin is what hurt my sparks was the 2nd chance points. Brown and McCowan are both strong and big they could clean up the mess of Wilson, Jefferson, McBride, and Plum.

Can you imagine the match ups? It would almost always favor Wilson because Cambage, Griner, Fowles, & Jones would all be forced to match up with Brown or McCowan. That would leave someone smaller or same size as will to guard her which would give her the upper hand. That is what hurt teams last year against BU, weren't facing one dominant post but two!!

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

I feel like you're expecting A 6'7 21 year old to be pro ready.

You mean, like Wilson was? Griner? Parker? Delle Donne?

If a player is a #1 or #2, the expectation is that the player will be pro ready and contribute from the first day. Heck, there are people (e.g., Shades) who said that Brittney Griner was a disappointment as a rookie, because she "only" averaged 12.6 points, 6.3 rebounds, and 3.0 blocks as a rookie.

Also, Kalani has more of a mid range developed than Griner did at this point.

Not in games I have seen. And certainly not before the 2013 WNBA season (where I saw Griner in person). Midrange is not just from the elbow. It has to be from the baseline, the wing, etc.

I just don't agree with the idea that they don't need a big center. Look at how well the Bonner- Griner combo is working and Stewart- Howard. If they drafted Brown she could take the largest post player defensively and pull them out of the paint where then Wilson can go to work on the probably smaller forward. I watched Brown in every televised game and in person games. I do not think you're giving her the credit. Give either of them another year in college and a year or two in the pro's and you'll see more from both.

Bonner is a guard/wing. She has played there in EVERY year for the Mercury. She moved to the front court this year out of necessity. Stewart was always a power forward in the Lauren Jackson mold and not a center. Howard had an inside-outside game at Florida State, but she got buried on the Minnesota bench.

Point is, when you use these examples and try to compare them to Wilson-Brown, you are overloooking (with all due) several key factors.

Bonner and Stewart are both ridiculously good passers for their size. Not just passing out of double teams, but passes that lead to assists.
Bonner and Stewart were both shooters with range, who came to the league as shooters with range - both from outside the paint and from three (Bonner less so from three very early on, but quickly shot the three with much better consistency than in her rookie year).

In your example, Wilson is the Bonner/Stewart, next to a "center." Wilson does not yet have anything close to the shooting range of either.

Also, using this ignores Wilson's greatest strength - her physical strength/ability to score in the post (to, basically, bulldoze her way to the basket and use her strength and finishing abilities to score). As a rookie, she was beyond dominant from the post - and had to do so against the likes of Fowles, Cambage, Griner, etc.

Now, if you put Wilson down low and Brown out of the paint or at the elbow, she has to consistently hit that shot for it to be effective. If she is going to take time to develop, she cannot help right away.

Also, in your example, you would have Wilson having to defend Bonner, who can create off the dribble past her. You would also have to put Wilson on Stewart, which would be a much more difficult matchup. Brown would not be in any position to defend these two players, thereby giving Wilson much harder defensive matchups from the jump.

You put Wilson with Brown who knows how to pass well out of double teams and work well with a dominant post they can be the 1-2 that is needed to help elevate them into playoffs next year. Especially if Jefferson, McBride, and Plum all come back healthy and firing on all cylinders this team may push into top 6.

Another point to consider. SC won the national title after losing Coates. Her game did not mesh as well with Wilson up front as did putting Wilson as the primary post threat and surrounding her with guards who could shoot and athletic and versatile forwards.[/QUOTE]

 

[Rixxx]

Just asking. Does Alaina Coates have value other than a big body to potentially post against Cambage, Griner, Liz Williams... Chicago invested a high draft pick in her and I just don't see her value. I think it was Scoop who was of the opinion the Coates will not be around next year.

 

[Carnac]

Below are Alaina's totals for this season. IMO she was not effective or used that much by Sky. They may decide to keep her, or waive her and she gets picked up by another team as Mercedes Russell did (released by NY 5/26, picked up by Seattle 5/30). She's no worse than Russell. Coates played very little for the Sun this season, but who knows?!? Russell was DNP yesterday for Seattle.

 

[DallasBUFan]

Below are Alaina's totals for this season. IMO she was not effective or used that much by Sky. They may decide to keep her, or waive her and she gets picked up by another team as Mercedes Russell did (released by NY 5/26, picked up by Seattle 5/30). She's no worse than Russell. Coates played very little for the Sun this season, but who knows?!? Russell was DNP yesterday for Seattle.


View attachment 34028

Maybe Aja helped inflate her in college. Made her look better than she was. I wasn't impressed this season at least.

 

[Geew1992]

Maybe Aja helped inflate her in college. Made her look better than she was. I wasn't impressed this season at least.

I wasn't impressed with her in college.