WNBA 2024 pre-season

[nwhoopfan]

Fire sale continues for Chicago. They are trying really hard to be as bad as they can it appears.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Kitley is a great prospect

My concern is, exactly how is she different from Elissa Cunane? Also had a great college career and has yet to find a spot in the W. The two were compared to each other incessantly while they were battling it out in the ACC. Sure Kitley has bigger stats, but what's the actual difference in them as players?

 

[Dillon77]

2024 WNBA Mock Draft 2.0 » Winsidr

It’s been a few months since my last mock draft, and so much has changed between now and then. We’re now post-free agency and on the cusp of March Madness, so it’s time to revisit my previous thinking, and just like last year, I’m bringing aboard the Winsidr GOAT and women’s ball expert, Rachel...

winsidr.com

I'm interested in seeing the second round, though I know there are such limited spots in the W. Hot takes I have... Kitley is a great prospect, would take her ahead of Pili. If Chicago walks away with Rickea Jackson and Aliyah Edwards they win the draft, full stop. Charisma Osborne is going to make the roster of whatever team she is drafted to.

I can most certainly see Rickea Jackson going to Chicago to work with/share time in the frontcourt.

These predictors have Aaliyah going to the Washington Mystics and/or Minnesota Lynx. I agree that if she falls to the Sky at 8, they should grab her. Fast. But I don't see her lasting until then. Too good a value. I hadn't realized players like Elizabeth Williams and/or Brianna Turner come off the books after this year. If so, drafting a post such as Cardoso, Taiyanna Jackson or Kitley makes sense.

 

[bballnut90]

My concern is, exactly how is she different from Elissa Cunane? Also had a great college career and has yet to find a spot in the W. The two were compared to each other incessantly while they were battling it out in the ACC. Sure Kitley has bigger stats, but what's the actual difference in them as players?

I'd take Kitley (assuming she can play this summer) over Pili but neither are strong prospects IMO. Pili is too small to play the 4 and doesn't have the athleticism needed at the next level. Hope she proves me wrong.

Kitley has good size and a smoother offensive game than Cunane did at NC State, but she's a true center who shies away from physical contact on offense which isn't a good attribute. She loves her fall away step back jumper, but when she misses it leaves no rebounders around, doesn't draw fouls or do much good for her team. Those are tough habits to break. I don't see her sticking in the pros unless she becomes more aggressive offensively.

 

[GoChips20]

My concern is, exactly how is she different from Elissa Cunane? Also had a great college career and has yet to find a spot in the W. The two were compared to each other incessantly while they were battling it out in the ACC. Sure Kitley has bigger stats, but what's the actual difference in them as players?

Cunane

• Broader/stronger frame
• More willing to bang inside
• Good range for a big - can hit threes
• Solid defensive fundamentals but not a rim protector
• Defended Aliyah Boston well in two meetings but didn’t produce much against her either

Kitley

• More polished offensively
• Better rim protector, good shot-blocker but not great defending in space
• Better mid-range game but has shown limited range from the arc, could be more of a VT system thing though, her shot form is good
• Prefers to stay just outside the paint over mixing it up inside
• Has struggled against players who can match her length (Tamari Key comes to mind, Cunane too although Kitley was younger and has developed since Cunane left)

I think both players have better basketball fundamentals than Angel Reese / Kamilla Cardoso but lack the athleticism and agility needed for extended tenure in the W.

 

[Dillon77]

Cunane

• Broader/stronger frame
• More willing to bang inside
• Good range for a big - can hit threes
• Solid defensive fundamentals but not a rim protector
• Defended Aliyah Boston well in two meetings but didn’t produce much against her either

Kitley

• More polished offensively
• Better rim protector, good shot-blocker but not great defending in space
• Better mid-range game but has shown limited range from the arc, could be more of a VT system thing though, her shot form is good
• Prefers to stay just outside the paint over mixing it up inside
• Has struggled against players who can match her length (Tamari Key comes to mind, Cunane too although Kitley was younger and has developed since Cunane left)

I think both players have better basketball fundamentals than Angel Reese / Kamilla Cardoso but lack the athleticism and agility needed for extended tenure in the W.

Appreciate the assessment and agree with just about everything you've written.
As an ND fan, I studied the Irish interactions with both centers a lot and they've done better against Kitley. Why? As you noted Kitley is usually just outside the paint. Irish centers like Kylee Watson, 6'4" herself, would get in her face and boxout well. When the Irish went "small," Kitley would find 6'3" Maddy Westbeld there. While Westbeld is a tingle smaller, she is strong and has excellent footwork.

Cunane had some issues with Maya Dodson, who was strong and athletic, but she would willingly attack the paint and battle....

 

[cancontent]

Cunane

• Broader/stronger frame
• More willing to bang inside
• Good range for a big - can hit threes
• Solid defensive fundamentals but not a rim protector
• Defended Aliyah Boston well in two meetings but didn’t produce much against her either

Kitley

• More polished offensively
• Better rim protector, good shot-blocker but not great defending in space
• Better mid-range game but has shown limited range from the arc, could be more of a VT system thing though, her shot form is good
• Prefers to stay just outside the paint over mixing it up inside
• Has struggled against players who can match her length (Tamari Key comes to mind, Cunane too although Kitley was younger and has developed since Cunane left)

I think both players have better basketball fundamentals than Angel Reese / Kamilla Cardoso but lack the athleticism and agility needed for extended tenure in the W.

Couldn't the same have been said about Gustafson a few years ago? Maybe with a mix of time overseas and WNBA, Kitley could get stronger and find a niche.

 

[Dillon77]

Couldn't the same have been said about Gustafson a few years ago? Maybe with a mix of time overseas and WNBA, Kitley could get stronger and find a niche.

In terms of self-improvement, absolutely yes.
There are fundamental differences: Gustafsson was an "inside-out" player in college. Remember the George Mikan-inspired drills she did incessantly that led to those tear-drop layups, hooks and jump hooks from both side? Then, in the pro's, she moved out, bit by bit, to the stage where she's shooting threes.

Kitley, as noted, likes those fadeaways. Will she develop the inside game? Then see if she can move that range?

 

[Dillon77]

OK. Richard Cohen of Her Hoop Stats has done his annual wrap-up of the WNBA offseason.
Rather than attach the rather long piece, I'll cut and paste the opener and a few team reviews intermittently, so they can see immediate light of day. Here's his intro and the Atlanta Dream.

​ "I'll be honest with you, this was supposed to be another version of the regular "Deals I liked and deals I hated" article I've written in multiple previous years. However, partly because of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement which is likely coming after the 2025 season, meaning few new contracts are being signed for more than two years, there weren't too many atrocious deals this offseason. If you give someone too much money, especially too much guaranteed money, at least the mistake can be mitigated if it's relatively short-term. So instead we're going to go team by team, and take a look at their moves so far in free agency. Good, bad, or indifferent, it's going to be a slightly more holistic approach this year." -- Richard Cohen​ Atlanta Dream​ Everything Atlanta did this offseason made sense on some level. All the moves were defensible. They turned Aari McDonald and a small drop in draft position into Jordin Canada, one of the hottest point guard commodities on the market after she discovered a 3-point shot in Los Angeles last year. They gave Nia Coffey two years of decent guaranteed money to stick around, and took somewhat calculated gambles on Aerial Powers and Tina Charles. There's a solid chance that this is the next step in turning a good young team into something closer to a genuine contender. I'm just a little concerned. I like the Canada move. After three years McDonald was still an unfinished work in progress and Canada's much closer to the finished article. As long as last year's shooting was real - and it certainly appeared to be - she'll fit well alongside Rhyne Howard and Allisha Gray, even if she has to play off the ball more than she did in LA. Coffey's an overpay for a player who's had injury issues in her past and is probably a high-end backup when you're trying to take the next step, but not by too much. Powers and Charles, even on one-year deals, are a little risky. Powers was essentially a disaster in Minnesota after setting herself up for that big Lynx contract with basically one good year in Washington. Charles, for all her accolades and production in the past -- she's Tina freaking Charles, she's probably heading for the Hall of Fame some day -- just hasn't made teams better for quite some time. She's also left a bunch of franchises behind her who didn't seem to enjoy the Charles experience (and wasn't in the WNBA at all last year, for whatever reason). If she was willing to come in and play a supporting role to all the talent already on the Dream, great. But we're yet to see Charles be willing to do that. She's on a non-guaranteed deal, so if things aren't working out then either side might walk away, but it's just generally adding to what will be a much more complicated coaching job for Tanisha Wright this year. On a minor additional note, the Dream also took up their fourth-year options on Rhyne Howard and Naz Hillmon. May 15 is the deadline for teams to exercise those options, so Atlanta jumped early for no obvious reason. Not a big deal, especially with Howard where it's an easy choice even if she got hurt between now and the deadline, but unnecessary.​

 

[Dillon77]

Richard Cohen of Her Hoops Stats on Chicago Sky's Offseason:

"Well this has been something of a wild ride, albeit due to thoroughly predictable issues. After heading into free agency with high hopes, those were quickly dashed when major targets decided they had better options. The new braintrust in Chicago pivoted, cashed in their best player, and started trying to restock the cupboards that were left pretty bare by James Wade before he ran for the border. "The return for Kahleah Copper was pretty decent, with the No. 3 pick from this year a likely centerpiece of the Sky rebuild. They turned the rights to Julie Allemand and Li Yueru into the No. 8 pick as well, which could result in someone useful. Then there were worthwhile gambles on players like Chennedy Carter and Kysre Gondrezick, exactly the kind of low-risk second-draft shots worth taking when you're trying to climb off the mat. Low-end deals for Diamond DeShields and Lindsay Allen make sense as well as veterans who can help the build. "It was obviously a disappointing offseason for a team that was trying to remain a contender barely a year earlier, and gave up their star attraction in Copper. But they got some picks back and have some youth incoming, and there's still some breakout possibilities on the roster (Dana Evans, Sika Koné, Michaela Onyenwere). It wasn't all doom and gloom. "That said, rescinding their rights to Astou Ndour, allowing her to sign with Connecticut a day later as a free agent, made no sense whatsoever. Some kind of compensation could surely have been negotiated with the Sun. That one was baffling." ​

 

[Dillon77]

Richard Cohen of Her Hoop Stats on the Nutmeg State's WNBA franchise.

I Connecticut Sun "Connecticut have emerged from free agency looking probably a little deeper than last year, but I'm not convinced they're actually better. Some of the losses were unavoidable. Tiffany Hayes retired from the WNBA, and Rebecca Allen was an unrestricted free agent (even though for some reason the Sun and Mercury contrived a sign-and-trade to move her). They've been replaced with Moriah Jefferson (taking on the two years of her contract that Phoenix clearly didn't want anymore), Tiffany Mitchell, Astou Ndour, Rachel Banham and very reasonable training camp fliers on players like Shey Peddy and Jocelyn Willoughby. "None of the contracts they added are horrible, although some aren't great. Jefferson is fine, as long as she's healthy, which is always a gamble. Guaranteeing Banham’s cash for two years was odd, but at least it's low-end money. Mitchell for Hiedeman was a pretty fair swap, and Mitchell can go back to playing on the wing where she's much more comfortable. All of these players are reasonable supporting options, and you can hardly blame Connecticut for trying to run it back with their core considering how good they've been in recent years. "Unfortunately, none of the additions are as good as Hayes and Allen, so it'll take a group effort to be as good again. They eventually managed to bring back DeWanna Bonner, despite rumors linking her to at least half the other teams in the league. Bonner signing for $200,000 and Brionna Jones agreeing for the second year in a row to take less than the supermax after being cored, shows a level of cooperation from everyone to put this group together. In either of the last two years Jones could've simply signed her qualifying offer and been paid $25,000-30,000 more than she ultimately signed for. "So no egregious errors here, just nothing massively exciting either."​

 

[jdote33]

Cunane

• Broader/stronger frame
• More willing to bang inside
• Good range for a big - can hit threes
• Solid defensive fundamentals but not a rim protector
• Defended Aliyah Boston well in two meetings but didn’t produce much against her either

Kitley

• More polished offensively
• Better rim protector, good shot-blocker but not great defending in space
• Better mid-range game but has shown limited range from the arc, could be more of a VT system thing though, her shot form is good
• Prefers to stay just outside the paint over mixing it up inside
• Has struggled against players who can match her length (Tamari Key comes to mind, Cunane too although Kitley was younger and has developed since Cunane left)

I think both players have better basketball fundamentals than Angel Reese / Kamilla Cardoso but lack the athleticism and agility needed for extended tenure in the W.

Appreciate this breakdown. I have always wondered y Cunane hasn't found a WNBA team. Like you mentioned she had the nickname big smile but she was pretty physical. I liked her ability to score inside and out. And in her senior year I thought she sacrificed a lot when diamond Johnson came in the team. Athleticism and lateral quickness is a fair point. I'm not sure how much she struggles in this area. But I always thought she could play the 4 or 5. I know she's played relatively well overseas the past couple years and appears to have a training camp contract with the Mystics.
As you mentioned Kitley is a better offensive player but not as physical. Once again I'm not sure about lateral quickness, and I do agree she's not very explosive and not great with physical contact. But I think she's improving in that area. I just thought at worst she'd be a backup center who can pick and pop. She's a competitor and I've been impressed by her 5th year.
I'm bias as I really like both bigs but as currently constituted I think there are a couple teams that don't have centers better than those two.

 

[Dillon77]

Continuing with Richard Cohen's Team-by-Team Assessments of How They Fared in Off-Season Personnel Moves Leading Up to the WNBA Draft in April.

Right now, the Dallas Wings

"The Wings were never likely to have a particularly dramatic free agency period this year, with limited room for manoeuvre unless they made a dramatic trade. Satou Sabally was re-signed for a fairly reasonable $195,000, considering she could've found max offer sheets elsewhere as a restricted free agent if she wanted them. But it's only a one-year deal, so the Wings will likely be forced to core her next year, when matters could get complicated again.

"Kalani Brown was re-signed, which most will view as a positive after she had something of a breakout season last year. However, three years of guaranteed money starting at $125,000 this year is a lot for a player who's likely stuck behind Teaira McCowan in the pecking order, along with the competition from all the other bigs on the roster and Stephanie Soares hopefully coming into the mix as well. There are only so many giants you can find time for. Hopefully Brown at least gets enough minutes to keep her value reasonably high, so that her deal is tradeable if necessary. There was also a strange and unnecessary dump of rights in Dallas, similar to Ndour in Chicago, with Kitija Laksa being released. Another unnecessary move.

"Beyond that, it's the usual offseason issue in Dallas - once you add in their two first-round picks, who's getting cut? The roster is more expensive these days, so they can only keep 11 players and stay under the salary cap. At least one name that will surprise some people will be waived or traded during Wings training camp."

 

[Dillon77]

Her Hoops Stat's Richard Cohen has thoughts on what the Fever did this off season.

Indiana Fever

"The Fever only made two free agent signings this year and I wasn't a huge fan of either of them, although I can at least understand the thinking (which is more than we could say about some of the signings they made in previous years). For those who listened to this year's Mock Free Agency podcast, you will have heard me contemplating exactly the move that the Fever made in reality, signing Katie Lou Samuelson as a gunner option on the wing. Despite missing out on my favoured option of Rebecca Allen, and having plenty of cap space left to throw around, I couldn't bring myself to make the kind of offer to Samuelson - two guaranteed years, starting at $175,000 - that Indiana made in the real world. She's exactly the type of player the Fever need. Perimeter shooting and length on the wing to offer some kind of defensive resistance and stretch the floor. Basically what they want Lexie Hull to be, but haven't really seen from her for more than two games.

"The problem is that I'm yet to be convinced that Samuelson is actually a good WNBA player. This is now her fifth different franchise (in five seasons of actual play!) and she's been okay at best. In her most recent years, Seattle were better when Steph Talbot filled her spot and LA were just bad all around. I understand the thinking from the Fever front office, I just don't think Samuelson's earned that kind of deal - even without the missed year and no evidence yet of whether she's fully recovered physically from having a baby.

"Their other free agent signing was at least cheaper, but it's also questionable whether Damiris Dantas deserved guaranteed money considering recent history. Dantas was having a poor season in Minnesota in 2022 before leaving for unexplained reasons and never returning. She was then cut in training camp by the Lynx the following year. Even as a veteran with a previously solid track record in the WNBA, that gets you a two-year guaranteed deal a year later? Seems a stretch. Especially when Temi Fagbenle finally decided to sign up for a return to the WNBA after several years away (while impressing with her development and performances in Europe). Assuming they manage to find room for her on the roster, don't be surprised if Fagbenle ends up higher in the rotation than Dantas once the games matter.

"Of course, the only things that really mattered for the Fever this offseason was winning the lottery and Caitlin Clark declaring for the draft. But the potential significant improvement with Clark is precisely why you don't hand out two-year guaranteed contracts to middling talent. That money and those protected slots could be important next year when far more players may want to come to Indiana."

 

[Dillon77]

​

​

Los Angeles Sparks​

(courtesy of Richard Cohen, Her Hoops Stats) ​

"The 2024 offseason surely hasn't gone quite as the Sparks would've wanted. Franchise mainstay Nneka Ogwumike walked away for nothing; Jordin Canada asked out and had to be cored purely to ensure a return; and their highest-priced free agency signing was giving a shocking amount of money to Rae Burrell to stick around. That's not what offseason dreams are made of. However, there was still some clever manoeuvering.

mod edit: post one paragraph of An article and a link to the owner's content.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Appreciate you posting these, and HerHoopsStats has great content, but unless you have permission, I feel like we're veering towards IP violations with the amount of content you're reposting. Perhaps just link to the relevant substack posts?

 

[Dillon77]

Appreciate you posting these, and HerHoopsStats has great content, but unless you have permission, I feel like we're veering towards IP violations with the amount of content you're reposting. Perhaps just link to the relevant substack posts?

Thanks for the thoughts. While I might see where you're coming from, this is where I'm coming from:

First, this material was sent via their newsletter which is a mass-marketing tool. And while I'll have to check on my yearly contributions, I also give to them so I guess I'm technically a member.

- I give full credit to Cohen to ensure he is given authorship, from bylines to adding quotation marks,

One reason I just didn't link to the newsletter is that it would be highly doubtful most people would read the whole thing.

However, I'll drop a line to HuskyNan to get her input....

 

[JellyBean]

OK. Richard Cohen of Her Hoop Stats has done his annual wrap-up of the WNBA offseason.
Rather than attach the rather long piece, I'll cut and paste the opener and a few team reviews intermittently, so they can see immediate light of day. Here's his intro and the Atlanta Dream.

​ "I'll be honest with you, this was supposed to be another version of the regular "Deals I liked and deals I hated" article I've written in multiple previous years. However, partly because of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement which is likely coming after the 2025 season, meaning few new contracts are being signed for more than two years, there weren't too many atrocious deals this offseason. If you give someone too much money, especially too much guaranteed money, at least the mistake can be mitigated if it's relatively short-term. So instead we're going to go team by team, and take a look at their moves so far in free agency. Good, bad, or indifferent, it's going to be a slightly more holistic approach this year." -- Richard Cohen​ Atlanta Dream​ Everything Atlanta did this offseason made sense on some level. All the moves were defensible. They turned Aari McDonald and a small drop in draft position into Jordin Canada, one of the hottest point guard commodities on the market after she discovered a 3-point shot in Los Angeles last year. They gave Nia Coffey two years of decent guaranteed money to stick around, and took somewhat calculated gambles on Aerial Powers and Tina Charles. There's a solid chance that this is the next step in turning a good young team into something closer to a genuine contender. I'm just a little concerned. I like the Canada move. After three years McDonald was still an unfinished work in progress and Canada's much closer to the finished article. As long as last year's shooting was real - and it certainly appeared to be - she'll fit well alongside Rhyne Howard and Allisha Gray, even if she has to play off the ball more than she did in LA. Coffey's an overpay for a player who's had injury issues in her past and is probably a high-end backup when you're trying to take the next step, but not by too much. Powers and Charles, even on one-year deals, are a little risky. Powers was essentially a disaster in Minnesota after setting herself up for that big Lynx contract with basically one good year in Washington. Charles, for all her accolades and production in the past -- she's Tina freaking Charles, she's probably heading for the Hall of Fame some day -- just hasn't made teams better for quite some time. She's also left a bunch of franchises behind her who didn't seem to enjoy the Charles experience (and wasn't in the WNBA at all last year, for whatever reason). If she was willing to come in and play a supporting role to all the talent already on the Dream, great. But we're yet to see Charles be willing to do that. She's on a non-guaranteed deal, so if things aren't working out then either side might walk away, but it's just generally adding to what will be a much more complicated coaching job for Tanisha Wright this year. On a minor additional note, the Dream also took up their fourth-year options on Rhyne Howard and Naz Hillmon. May 15 is the deadline for teams to exercise those options, so Atlanta jumped early for no obvious reason. Not a big deal, especially with Howard where it's an easy choice even if she got hurt between now and the deadline, but unnecessary.​

Thanks for the break down. The Aerial Powers situation here in Minnesota was a disaster. Not sure what happened after that Phoenix Mercury/Minnesota Lynx game where Aerial had one of her best games. I know she suffered (it was reported) an ankle injury but she was out longer than other players who suffered ankle injuries. Then when she could play, her minutes were never consistent. I just wish that it would have worked out for AP with the Lynx. Maybe she will get that chance in Atlanta.

 

[Reypl21]

I've felt similar regarding KLS. I'm not going to get into if she deserves her money or not, but I don't think she's been a great pro yet. She's been underwhelming, and I wasn't that impressed with the signing. I'm going to be watching the Fever closely this summer, I hope they have a great season. If there ever was a year for a breakout season, this would be a good time for KLS

 

[TheFarmFan]

Thanks for the thoughts. While I might see where you're coming from, this is where I'm coming from:

First, this material was sent via their newsletter which is a mass-marketing tool. And while I'll have to check on my yearly contributions, I also give to them so I guess I'm technically a member.

- I give full credit to Cohen to ensure he is given authorship, from bylines to adding quotation marks,

One reason I just didn't link to the newsletter is that it would be highly doubtful most people would read the whole thing.

However, I'll drop a line to HuskyNan to get her input....

Where I'm coming from is as (A) a mod of another sports board; and (B) a lawyer. And if the content you're quoting is copywritten, which HerHoopsStats content clearly is (see bottom of every newsletter), then both you and the board are violating copyright law by your posting, and their hosting, more than a fair use portion without the copyright owner's permission. Ultimately not my problem since I'm neither the poster nor the board, but figured I'd say a friendly word since I know your actions are motivated by good intentions.

 

[Dillon77]

Where I'm coming from is as (A) a mod of another sports board; and (B) a lawyer. And if the content you're quoting is copywritten, which HerHoopsStats content clearly is (see bottom of every newsletter), then both you and the board are violating copyright law by your posting, and their hosting, more than a fair use portion without the copyright owner's permission. Ultimately not my problem since I'm neither the poster nor the board, but figured I'd say a friendly word since I know your actions are motivated by good intentions.

As someone in the Wizard of Oz once said, "Why didn't you say so in the first place?"

Appreciate the heads-up and will resort to links and/or select cut and pastes which would all fall under accepted guidelines.

What board are you moderating? (Send via conversation if you want to keep under wraps....). Thanks.

 

[Geew1992]

 

[Dillon77]

With KLS coming aboard, you could see that both VV or Lexie Hull were extraneous.
Better earlier than during camp so she can try another team ....

 

[Dillon77]

The Next dropped an article on international prospects for the upcoming 2024 draft. This board has seen a few of them mentioned in various mocks, but I'll list them and draw a link to the post. Two are from Australia; two from France. Stay tuned.

• Leila Lacan, 5'11" combo guard from France who some rate in Top Ten overall prospects;
• Nyadiew Puoch, 6'3" "combo" forward from Australia, who apparently has great leaping ability and a penchant for three-pt. shooting;
• Carla Leite, 5'9" true point guard from France; rated in teens of prospects and,
• Isobel Borlase, 5'11" off-ball guard from Australia who is one of the younger prospects: draft and stash?

https://www./features/locked-on-womens-basketball-2024-wnba-draft-international-prospects/

 

[jdote33]

Any revision of draft boards or opinions as we are now through two rounds of the tournament.