WNBA -- 2023 Season

[FormerCTrez]

You couldn't mean the player who's curently ranked 11th in the WNBA in PPP?!? I guess that means Azurá is healthy. Somebody (maybe Chicago) better acquire her very soon.

I just can’t with this league. I am really tired of reading about so many players, both veterans and rookies, being released from their contracts, for one reason or another. How do the team presidents and coaches believe the players will be developed?

 

[FormerCTrez]

Karlie is averaging 23 minutes/10 points/game; shooting 51/59/92.

On what planet does this make sense?

Tuesday, June 6, 2023

Karlie Samuelson signed a Rest-of-Season Hardship Contract with the Los Angeles Sparks.

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I dont care what they call it as long as she is back for the season.

This is exhausting, but at least she has work!

 

[cancontent]

This is exhausting, but at least she has work!

It's crazier than playing an actual game of chess against a chess master. Keeping up with the moving pieces is insane. Glad she's with the team for the balance of the season though.

 

[Geew1992]

Sides need to take a lot of blame for this one. The (lineups) rotations in OT made no sense either, Mitchell just chucking up hair Mary shots. Zero attempts to get the ball in the paint the entire time.

And where was smith??

 

[visitingcock]

Any questions about Aliyah Boston’s potential in the WNBA seem to have been answered.

Crazy to contemplate that, if they keep losing this year, their next draft choice COULD be Paige or Clark.

Scoring threats who both know how to dish the ball. (And Paige can play defense too.)

 

[bbsamjj]

Crazy to contemplate that, if they keep losing this year, their next draft choice COULD be Paige or Clark.

Scoring threats who both know how to dish the ball. (And Paige can play defense too.)

A good amount of WNBA championship teams have been built off back to back #1 picks.

Seattle got Jackson/Bird back to back in 2001 and 2022; and then Loyd and Stewart back to back in 2015 and 2016.

Vegas got 3 #1 picks in a row (Plum, Young, Wilson).

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Crazy to contemplate that, if they keep losing this year, their next draft choice COULD be Paige or Clark.

Scoring threats who both know how to dish the ball. (And Paige can play defense too.)

Don't wish this on these two. The Fever franchise is too much of a dumpster fire to watch their careers die there slowly. Paige deserves to lead Minnesota back to glory and Clark would be a nice Sue Bird replacement in Seattle. Both hopefully in 2025.

 

[cancontent]

Don't wish this on these two. The Fever franchise is too much of a dumpster fire to watch their careers die there slowly. Paige deserves to lead Minnesota back to glory and Clark would be a nice Sue Bird replacement in Seattle. Both hopefully in 2025.

It's not a matter of wishing but potential reality based on how the season progresses.

Also, while the idea of Paige in Minnesota and Caitlin in Seattle are great storylines, who is to say that their careers would fare better there? Minnesota is nothing like what they used to be and it's unclear what Reeves' long term plans are. Seattle has an unproven coach who doesn't have Bird and Stewart to rely on.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

It's not a matter of wishing but potential reality based on how the season progresses.

Also, while the idea of Paige in Minnesota and Caitlin in Seattle are great storylines, who is to say that their careers would fare better there? Minnesota is nothing like what they used to be and it's unclear what Reeves' long term plans are. Seattle has an unproven coach who doesn't have Bird and Stewart to rely on.

Reeves is an overrate coach IMO so that doesn't bother me. This isn't college basketball, the specific team situations (players/coaches etc) don't matter much in the grand scheme of things, it' all about the organization itself and the owners. Seattle has one of the best ownership groups and have broken ground on a training facility, which would be only the second in the league. I'm confident they'll make moves to rebuild after losing Stewie and Sue. The Lynx organization has also shown the ability to make moves and build rosters that can consistently make the play-offs, last year being the first in 12 seasons they didn't qualify. I believe a league record.

The Fever on the other hand haven't made the play-offs since 2016 and made some incredibly questionable coaching hires and roster construction decisions. From a players perspective its a place you go to get your foot in the door in the league and then jump ship to the first chance you get. Its going take more than high draft picks to turn that situation around, especially as players are gaining more control with contract negotiations, and I don't want to watch two of the most electrifying guards in basketball to squander 3 years tied to this franchise.

 

[bbsamjj]

I have been impressed with the Fever this year on all fronts--they've done a really good job on marketing Boston and the team thus far. Did a TON around her drafting, arrival in Indy, etc. Their crowds seem to have grown this year too.

the record is still poor, but they seem far, FAR more competitive than in recent years.

 

[cancontent]

Reeves is an overrate coach IMO so that doesn't bother me. This isn't college basketball, the specific team situations (players/coaches etc) don't matter much in the grand scheme of things, it' all about the organization itself and the owners. Seattle has one of the best ownership groups and have broken ground on a training facility, which would be only the second in the league. I'm confident they'll make moves to rebuild after losing Stewie and Sue. The Lynx organization has also shown the ability to make moves and build rosters that can consistently make the play-offs, last year being the first in 12 seasons they didn't qualify. I believe a league record.

The Fever on the other hand haven't made the play-offs since 2016 and made some incredibly questionable coaching hires and roster construction decisions. From a players perspective its a place you go to get your foot in the door in the league and then jump ship to the first chance you get. Its going take more than high draft picks to turn that situation around, especially as players are gaining more control with contract negotiations, and I don't want to watch two of the most electrifying guards in basketball to squander 3 years tied to this franchise.

1). How does coaching not have an impact on a team's performance? You're basically saying Reeves just sits back and lets the players do whatever they want. There's no way ownership pulls the strings and a championship culture and team appears.

2). If ownership in Minnesota is that great, how did players like Dangerfield and Jefferson get away? Until Dangerfield's injury, she was showing how effective she could have been had they kept her on their roster. They also wouldn't have had to incur pricier contracts like those of Powers and McBride for the same amount of production.

3). And for all that can be said of ownership groups, it doesn't guarantee success. The ownership group in Seattle is fairly new, taking over the team after the first championship with Stewart on the roster if I recall correctly. Investing in top level facilities is great and all, but it doesn't promise instant success.

4). Indiana is going in a drastically different direction under Dunn as GM in comparison to Catchings. Too soon to consider that franchise a team to languish on as a rookie. If they can smarten up on late game decisions, their season will be a lot different than what some expect it to be. While it still chafes me that they cut Engstler, the team is much more competitive than I expected them to be.

 

[baggerbob]

1). How does coaching not have an impact on a team's performance? You're basically saying Reeves just sits back and lets the players do whatever they want. There's no way ownership pulls the strings and a championship culture and team appears.

2). If ownership in Minnesota is that great, how did players like Dangerfield and Jefferson get away? Until Dangerfield's injury, she was showing how effective she could have been had they kept her on their roster. They also wouldn't have had to incur pricier contracts like those of Powers and McBride for the same amount of production.

3). And for all that can be said of ownership groups, it doesn't guarantee success. The ownership group in Seattle is fairly new, taking over the team after the first championship with Stewart on the roster if I recall correctly. Investing in top level facilities is great and all, but it doesn't promise instant success.

4). Indiana is going in a drastically different direction under Dunn as GM in comparison to Catchings. Too soon to consider that franchise a team to languish on as a rookie. If they can smarten up on late game decisions, their season will be a lot different than what some expect it to be. While it still chafes me that they cut Engstler, the team is much more competitive than I expected them to be.

Seattle's ownership made a big mistake paying Russell 160, 000 dollars for 2 years when Ezi was waiting in the wings.
Then last year messed up team chemistry bringing in Tina Charles, and benching Ezi.
Those moves forced Stewie to look elsewhere.
Bad ownership with bad coaching isn't productive to keeping star players.

 

[baggerbob]

1). How does coaching not have an impact on a team's performance? You're basically saying Reeves just sits back and lets the players do whatever they want. There's no way ownership pulls the strings and a championship culture and team appears.

2). If ownership in Minnesota is that great, how did players like Dangerfield and Jefferson get away? Until Dangerfield's injury, she was showing how effective she could have been had they kept her on their roster. They also wouldn't have had to incur pricier contracts like those of Powers and McBride for the same amount of production.

3). And for all that can be said of ownership groups, it doesn't guarantee success. The ownership group in Seattle is fairly new, taking over the team after the first championship with Stewart on the roster if I recall correctly. Investing in top level facilities is great and all, but it doesn't promise instant success.

4). Indiana is going in a drastically different direction under Dunn as GM in comparison to Catchings. Too soon to consider that franchise a team to languish on as a rookie. If they can smarten up on late game decisions, their season will be a lot different than what some expect it to be. While it still chafes me that they cut Engstler, the team is much more competitive than I expected them to be.

Sandy needs to straighten out a couple of players in New York.
Sabrina needs to get her head on straight, she has had 2 horrible games in a row.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

1). How does coaching not have an impact on a team's performance? You're basically saying Reeves just sits back and lets the players do whatever they want. There's no way ownership pulls the strings and a championship culture and team appears.

2). If ownership in Minnesota is that great, how did players like Dangerfield and Jefferson get away? Until Dangerfield's injury, she was showing how effective she could have been had they kept her on their roster. They also wouldn't have had to incur pricier contracts like those of Powers and McBride for the same amount of production.

3). And for all that can be said of ownership groups, it doesn't guarantee success. The ownership group in Seattle is fairly new, taking over the team after the first championship with Stewart on the roster if I recall correctly. Investing in top level facilities is great and all, but it doesn't promise instant success.

4). Indiana is going in a drastically different direction under Dunn as GM in comparison to Catchings. Too soon to consider that franchise a team to languish on as a rookie. If they can smarten up on late game decisions, their season will be a lot different than what some expect it to be. While it still chafes me that they cut Engstler, the team is much more competitive than I expected them to be.

1) I didn't say coaching didn't have an impact on teams performance. I said it wouldn't impact where I would want to go as a player because good ownership will find a good coach or fire a bad coach quickly. I wouldn't care about going to a team that has a bad coach this season because in a good franchise they'll be gone soon enough. Similarly I wouldn't want to go to a bad franchise with a good coach because that coach will likley find greener pastures if they are good enough.

2) I never said it guaranteed success, but I would much prefer to be with an organization that has clearly been financially investing in the team and players than one thats been consistently mid or worse.

3) I mean we'll see, its more so what happens in the off-seasons that I would be interested it. Can they keep a decent coach, if sides proves to be one? Can they keep their better players? Based on Smith's response to the harassment her and her family receive on social media i'd be surprised if she wanted to stick around for long. etc etc.

Maybe Indiana won't continue to be a dumpster fire of a franchise but I don't want to risk the beginning of Clark/Buckers career's there to find out.

 

[cancontent]

1) I didn't say coaching didn't have an impact on teams performance. I said it wouldn't impact where I would want to go as a player because good ownership will find a good coach or fire a bad coach quickly. I wouldn't care about going to a team that has a bad coach this season because in a good franchise they'll be gone soon enough. Similarly I wouldn't want to go to a bad franchise with a good coach because that coach will likley find greener pastures if they are good enough.

2) I never said it guaranteed success, but I would much prefer to be with an organization that has clearly been financially investing in the team and players than one thats been consistently mid or worse.

3) I mean we'll see, its more so what happens in the off-seasons that I would be interested it. Can they keep a decent coach, if sides proves to be one? Can they keep their better players? Based on Smith's response to the harassment her and her family receive on social media i'd be surprised if she wanted to stick around for long. etc etc.

Maybe Indiana won't continue to be a dumpster fire of a franchise but I don't want to risk the beginning of Clark/Buckers career's there to find out.

1). Your reply implied that ownership and management had more impact than coaching. And coaching does impact where a player goes when it comes to free agency. Otherwise, you wouldn't see players like Stewart, Parker, etc., make the moves that they did this season. As a rookie, you have no control because of the draft.

2). Your reply implied that making significant investments into a team has an impact. In other sports this hasn't always been the case. Look at Mark Davis' investment into the Raiders since moving to Vegas. It hasn't paid off to date. Time will tell with the Aces as this is still a relatively new venture for him. He purchased a team that had a good structure in place before he took over. Hopefully it continues to trend in a positive direction.

Tsai's investment in the Liberty is still had to gauge as well. Moving them to Brooklyn was smart. The investments made in free agency will hopefully pay off as well. Still not a fan of them getting rid of the previous coach as I believe he deserved more time, but we'll see.

3). Draftees don't have a choice in where they go. And who knows, maybe going to Indiana is the final piece to the puzzle? Seattle wasn't in the greatest shape when they drafted Stewart.

And with respect to harrassment in social media, you have to take it with a grain of salt because it can be an echo chamber thanks to the algorithms in place as someone else reminded me. If they have the right focus and ability to block out the noise, they'll be fine. Players like Buecker's and Clark have been dealing with this stuff well before university and continue to thrive.

 

[cancontent]

Just wow. The air quality is poor where I live in Canada but nowhere as bad as what it is in NYC.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

1). Your reply implied that ownership and management had more impact than coaching. And coaching does impact where a player goes when it comes to free agency. Otherwise, you wouldn't see players like Stewart, Parker, etc., make the moves that they did this season. As a rookie, you have no control because of the draft.

2). Your reply implied that making significant investments into a team has an impact. In other sports this hasn't always been the case. Look at Mark Davis' investment into the Raiders since moving to Vegas. It hasn't paid off to date. Time will tell with the Aces as this is still a relatively new venture for him. He purchased a team that had a good structure in place before he took over. Hopefully it continues to trend in a positive direction.

Tsai's investment in the Liberty is still had to gauge as well. Moving them to Brooklyn was smart. The investments made in free agency will hopefully pay off as well. Still not a fan of them getting rid of the previous coach as I believe he deserved more time, but we'll see.

3). Draftees don't have a choice in where they go. And who knows, maybe going to Indiana is the final piece to the puzzle? Seattle wasn't in the greatest shape when they drafted Stewart.

And with respect to harrassment in social media, you have to take it with a grain of salt because it can be an echo chamber thanks to the algorithms in place as someone else reminded me. If they have the right focus and ability to block out the noise, they'll be fine. Players like Buecker's and Clark have been dealing with this stuff well before university and continue to thrive.

I'm not sure what any of these responses have to do with what I'm even saying at this point. If I were an WNBA player I would prefer to end up on franchise that has a proven track record of consistent success and investment in the team and players rather than the Fever who have a long history of being pretty bad with a few pockets of success. Obviously rookies can't choose where they go but fans can hope they end up in better places. I felt bad when Boston ended up in Indiana as I'm sure they will waste her talent somehow and I hope no other future players end up stuck there as well.

 

[cancontent]

I'm not sure what any of these responses have to do with what I'm even saying at this point. If I were an WNBA player I would prefer to end up on franchise that has a proven track record of consistent success and investment in the team and players rather than the Fever who have a long history of being pretty bad with a few pockets of success. Obviously rookies can't choose where they go but fans can hope they end up in better places. I felt bad when Boston ended up in Indiana as I'm sure they will waste her talent somehow and I hope no other future players end up stuck there as well.

Everyone wants to land with a team that's consistently successful but that's not reality, regardless if you're being drafted or a free agent. In some cases, it could be for more playing time compared to the team they were with. For example, Kristy Wallace opted to sign with Indiana versus staying with Atlanta. In comparison to last season, she's getting more court time and has made decent contributions to the team.

Your pessimism of Indiana is duly noted however time will tell whether Boston's talents will be wasted there. From what I have seen this season, they have improved in some areas. They're still a ways away, but I don't think it's a sinkhole that's unattractive to future WNBA draft prospects.

 

[Dillon77]

Just wow. The air quality is poor where I live in Canada but nowhere as bad as what it is in NYC.

Yankee-White Sox game, which is outdoors, was cancelled today, as well.

I live 12 miles west of the West Side of Manhattan and between lunch and 2 p.m. it got so hazy/dark, it felt almost biblical (as in Good Friday-ish). Not only is it visibly all around you, it smells like the fire is a short distance away.

Yikes.

 

[Geew1992]

Yankee-White Sox game, which is outdoors, was cancelled today, as well.

I live 12 miles west of the West Side of Manhattan and between lunch and 2 p.m. it got so hazy/dark, it felt almost biblical (as in Good Friday-ish). Not only is it visibly all around you, it smells like the fire is a short distance away.

Yikes.

I’m not in Ct at the moment but here are some pic

 

[Dillon77]

I'm not sure what any of these responses have to do with what I'm even saying at this point. If I were an WNBA player I would prefer to end up on franchise that has a proven track record of consistent success and investment in the team and players rather than the Fever who have a long history of being pretty bad with a few pockets of success. Obviously rookies can't choose where they go but fans can hope they end up in better places. I felt bad when Boston ended up in Indiana as I'm sure they will waste her talent somehow and I hope no other future players end up stuck there as well.

So, this has been an interesting give-and-take between you and @cancontent . From my vantage point on the couch last night, I'd like to respond to these comments that seemed to get this in motion.

• The Fever franchise is too much of a dumpster fire to watch their careers die there slowly.
  [*]and the segment above, I highlighted in this shade.

Well, Fever ownership thought Tamika Catchings could run a franchise as well as she played and that was, obviously, a serious mistake. However, Lin Dunn -- knock on wood -- after a misstep or three, seems to gotten some draft picks right and tight and, from what I've seen, has a promising, younger coach with Christie Sides.
(I still think the Engstler decision was a mistake.)

While I'm not declaring victory won yet for the Fever (it is a long season), I've enjoyed watching the Fever play both the Aces and Sky. Could they have won both games? Sure. Should they have? Hard to judge when you realize they haven't been in those situations a heck of a lot the last few years, if at all. Plus, as noted, Sides is a young HC and everyone grows (hello, Joe Mazzulla?)

Still, that the Sky-Fever game was exciting as all get out to watch and I'd rather see a shootout every so often than the slog-fest that took place in Seattle in the next game. All Indiana starters scored in double figures and Wallace did off the bench, too. And they got 20+ pts. off forced turnovers. Should they have fed Boston and Smith even more last night in Q4 and OT? Sure, but everyone needs to learn to win. So, while the Fever were a guaranteed "W" for any other team last year, that doesn't appear to be the case this season.

Seattle does have solid ownership investment and that's heartening to see. But do they have the right administrative/coaching staff in place to transition this team? We'll find out this season, too. I like a few of the young players on the squad (Horston, Melbourne), but a serious learning curve has to be adhered to, there.

I guess we all have our own preferences on what teams we'd like to see young talent go to, but -- as everyone has stated -- that's not our call. I feel pretty secure that Caitlin Clarke, Paige Buckers (go away injuries!) and Cameron Brink can help just about anyone when they join the W.

Stay tuned.

 

[GoChips20]

I have been impressed with the Fever this year on all fronts--they've done a really good job on marketing Boston and the team thus far. Did a TON around her drafting, arrival in Indy, etc. Their crowds seem to have grown this year too.

the record is still poor, but they seem far, FAR more competitive than in recent years.

You’re spot on that the atmosphere and performance in Indiana is miles above where it has been in reasonably recent memory, but at some point they’re going to have to win some games. Boston put them up 2 with 2 seconds remaining last night and they still lost the game.

To be clear, I think it’ll happen - you can tell how hard these kids are working.

 

[baggerbob]

Everyone wants to land with a team that's consistently successful but that's not reality, regardless if you're being drafted or a free agent. In some cases, it could be for more playing time compared to the team they were with. For example, Kristy Wallace opted to sign with Indiana versus staying with Atlanta. In comparison to last season, she's getting more court time and has made decent contributions to the team.

Your pessimism of Indiana is duly noted however time will tell whether Boston's talents will be wasted there. From what I have seen this season, they have improved in some areas. They're still a ways away, but I don't think it's a sinkhole that's unattractive to future WNBA draft prospects.

Indiana just needs to get rid of Mitchell, she has been a volume shooter her entire career.
That isn't going to change after this many years, she wouldn't see the floor with players like Parker, Stewie, or EDD.

 

[cancontent]

Indiana just needs to get rid of Mitchell, she has been a volume shooter her entire career.
That isn't going to change after this many years, she wouldn't see the floor with players like Parker, Stewie, or EDD.

Yeah, it still perplexes me why she won't dish the ball more. It would be to her benefit as Boston does kick it back out if the shot isn't there.

 

[Bigboote]

I have been impressed with the Fever this year on all fronts--they've done a really good job on marketing Boston and the team thus far. Did a TON around her drafting, arrival in Indy, etc. Their crowds seem to have grown this year too.

the record is still poor, but they seem far, FAR more competitive than in recent years.

Don't discount how much Berger has to do with the bigger crowds. I'm a huge fan, and I was still shocked she went 6th in the draft. But it was a shrewd business move.