Wine thread

[storrsroars]

The Montelena is going to have to wait. The restaurant we were going to called to tell us power was out and they're cancelling all reservations. I'd brought the bottle up from the cellar a few hours ago - first time it's been standing on end in 18 years. It's a hard reservation to come by but I'm hoping they do the right thing and get us in soon.

We're hoping we don't end up like Miles in Sideways.

 

[8893]

The Montelena is going to have to wait. The restaurant we were going to called to tell us power was out and they're cancelling all reservations. I'd brought the bottle up from the cellar a few hours ago - first time it's been standing on end in 18 years. It's a hard reservation to come by but I'm hoping they do the right thing and get us in soon.

We're hoping we don't end up like Miles in Sideways.

Did that Albariño ever open up to your liking, or do you regret the purchase?

 

[storrsroars]

Did that Albariño ever open up to your liking, or do you regret the purchase?

For $15 a bottle it's hard to regret the purchase. It got better, and while I'm not in love with it, it'll all be consumed Wife likes it more than I do. Martin Codax is my baseline as a reliable example. This stuff is a bit more mineraly/flinty and I think it would better complementing dishes with a creamier/butterier sauce than the acidic stuff I often make with fish. Just my opinion though.

 

[8893]

For $15 a bottle it's hard to regret the purchase. It got better, and while I'm not in love with it, it'll all be consumed Wife likes it more than I do. Martin Codax is my baseline as a reliable example. This stuff is a bit more mineraly/flinty and I think it would better complementing dishes with a creamier/butterier sauce than the acidic stuff I often make with fish. Just my opinion though.

I’m constantly amazed at how much of a difference temperature makes with white wine. I feel like each one has its own perfect temp for the ideal expression of the wine, and it’s always some number of degrees less than fridge cold. When I am at a restaurant I always tell them I don’t want the chiller, and I’m surprised how often they are surprised by that.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I’m constantly amazed at how much of a difference temperature makes with white wine. I feel like each one has its own perfect temp for the ideal expression of the wine, and it’s always some number of degrees less than fridge cold. When I am at a restaurant I always tell them I don’t want the chiller, and I’m surprised how often they are surprised by that.

I think many Americans drink white wine too cold, and red wine too warm. But I agree some whites need to be colder than others, for me that seems like the ones with the melon or lime profile.

 

[Drew]

Did that Albariño ever open up to your liking, or do you regret the purchase?

FYI- I’m thoroughly enjoying it. Almost through bottle 1 and only 5 to go!

 

[8893]

I think many Americans drink white wine too cold, and red wine too warm. But I agree some whites need to be colder than others, for me that seems like the ones with the melon or lime profile.

I can't remember at which one of the countless vineyard tours or wine in-services I attended when lived and bartended in San Francisco for a year that I heard this (more than 30 years ago), but one of the sommelier people suggested that you should take whites out of the fridge ten to fifteen minutes before serving, and that you should put red wines in the fridge ten to fifteen minutes before serving.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I can't remember at which one of the countless vineyard tours or wine in-services I attended when lived and bartended in San Francisco for a year that I heard this (more than 30 years ago), but one of the sommelier people suggested that you should take whites out of the fridge ten to fifteen minutes before serving, and that you should put red wines in the fridge ten to fifteen minutes before serving.

That aligns with what they told me in my wine class at UCSC. If you don't have dedicated red temp controlled storage that works. Hard for most restaurants to get it right though. Vast majority of reds will be room temp.

 

[storrsroars]

Finally had that bottle of Montelena at our first "real" dinner out since 2019. Drinkable, but past peak, probably by two years or so. Took forever to open up, lots of saddle leather, licorice, pipe tobacco kinda smothered whatever berries and fruit were left in there. But the worst part was that we were really looking forward to this meal - hard reservation to get as it's a small byob place, only six tables, but highly regarded. And yet I honestly think that the two dishes we had, I could've done better at home. I had a 14oz thick pork chop, but the most interesting thing on my plate was a battered artichoke. Wife's veal was overcooked. The shared appetizer they offered was beets with a citrus glaze, which I expected to be a few roasted beets with some burrata, but what came out looked like a beet meatloaf... seriously like 2 lbs of beets and no citrus kick. I have no idea wtf they were thinking with that presentation. Dessert was just OK, and it's 3:45am and I've already hit the crapper twice.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Finally had that bottle of Montelena at our first "real" dinner out since 2019. Drinkable, but past peak, probably by two years or so. Took forever to open up, lots of saddle leather, licorice, pipe tobacco kinda smothered whatever berries and fruit were left in there. But the worst part was that we were really looking forward to this meal - hard reservation to get as it's a small byob place, only six tables, but highly regarded. And yet I honestly think that the two dishes we had, I could've done better at home. I had a 14oz thick pork chop, but the most interesting thing on my plate was a battered artichoke. Wife's veal was overcooked. The shared appetizer they offered was beets with a citrus glaze, which I expected to be a few roasted beets with some burrata, but what came out looked like a beet meatloaf... seriously like 2 lbs of beets and no citrus kick. I have no idea they were thinking with that presentation. Dessert was just OK, and it's 3:45am and I've already hit the crapper twice.

Sorry to hear that. Both the wine and the meal. I do like my Cabs with a lot of herbal, tobacco, and pencil lead though. I should have added “dining out is overrated” in the lessons from Covid thread. I always thought it was but I’m beyond convinced now. I make myself “street tacos” about 3 times a week now. Have become pretty good at it. Used a leftover pork tenderloin recently, with a Habererno Jamaican BBQ sauce and some ancho chili and cayenne.

Yet we got lucky. Wife‘s birthday meal on Tuesday at Davio’s was terrific. Best Calamari I’ve had. She had goat cheese tortelloni in some delicious sauce with fennel pollen and lemon. I had seared scallops with a lemon risotto that had Italian bacon and sugar snap peas. Their bread is amazing as well.

To stay on thread we tried three wines, all listed as Davio’s Reserve by Peter Merriam. The Cabernet Sauvignon and Chardonnay were very good, the Sauvignon Blanc just ok. All were Russian River Valley. Peter Merriam is a native of Maine, lived in Boxford, MA. Bought a prime vineyard in 2000 that used to just supply other wineries and built a winery. Merriam Vineyards - About Us

 

[billybud]

I get wine shipments from First Leaf....and a couple other services.

We like Portuguese Tinto's. Spanish Tempronilla's, some Granache....almost anything from Italy...Super Tuscans, Montepulciano, good Sangiovese...and, on a splurge...a Barolo..

We like Cabs from Napa and Zins from Dry Creek Valley....don't like Washington State wines...just me. Nor much from France.

White wines...my personal taste is crisp, mineral finish....oaky buttery Chardonay's need not apply even if they are 99 points.

But heck...I will drink anti freeze if that is all that is available and everyone is drinking...

After drinking Pagan Pink Ripple and Mad Dog when young, I can make no claim to having a palate.

 

[storrsroars]

I should have added “dining out is overrated” in the lessons from Covid thread. I always thought it was but I’m beyond convinced now.

Could not disagree more. I recognize that on the BY i'm very much the minority, joined perhaps only by 8893, but I love few things more than putting myself in the hands of an inventive chef who can offer me entirely new food experiences and do things with ingredients that I cannot, nor could I even imagine. I will gladly pay for that. Unfortunately my experience last night was far from that, but it won't stop me from seeking it out.

Where we may have failed last night was being committed to that specific bottle, which eliminated a couple of seafood entree options that might've been better. As that was our last "big" bottle, it was also probably the last time we order food to fit the wine as opposed to the opposite.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Could not disagree more. I recognize that on the BY i'm very much the minority, joined perhaps only by 8893, but I love few things more than putting myself in the hands of an inventive chef who can offer me entirely new food experiences and do things with ingredients that I cannot, nor could I even imagine. I will gladly pay for that. Unfortunately my experience last night was far from that, but it won't stop me from seeking it out.

Where we may have failed last night was being committed to that specific bottle, which eliminated a couple of seafood entree options that might've been better. As that was our last "big" bottle, it was also probably the last time we order food to fit the wine as opposed to the opposite.

Fully understand some are foodies and some are not. I had a great, inventive and creative sandwich at a brewery today. But ultimately I have pretty simple tastes it seems. For me it seems that at nicer restaurants 8 of 10 menu items have something I hate in them. The curse of a picky eater I suppose.

 

[storrsroars]

Fully understand some are foodies and some are not. I had a great, inventive and creative sandwich at a brewery today. But ultimately I have pretty simple tastes it seems. For me it seems that at nicer restaurants 8 of 10 menu items have something I hate in them. The curse of a picky eater I suppose.

And you're the majority of Americans. To me, there's art in superlative cooking. Training and ingredient knowledge that the average person just doesn't have. And there's no need for it to be "fussy" or "pretentious". The easiest examples are that things like "pot au feu" or "cassoulet" are considered hoity-toity snobbish dishes over here, whereas in France it's peasant/comfort food. It's all context.

I will note though that while it's a small list compared to most, there are more things I don't like than I care to admit to. One of those was brussels sprouts, which I learned to hate as a kid as my mother made it only one way. But I ordered some out of respect for a top local chef who's also a friend, and he got me actually liking the damned things and experimenting with different ways to cook them. I'm actually now growing them in my garden. I still can't stand raisins in anything, the smell of cooked caulflower, and I will pick peas out of whatever I'm eating (except samosas) because of horrific childhood memories of Swanson's TV dinners, but I'd be willing to allow a skilled and inventive cook to make something with those that might just get me to change my mind about them.

I mention this as there's always an outside chance that some cook will find a way to make you actually like something you don't. If I were ever to sit down and eat with Marcus Samuelsson, I imagine he could convince me to like Aqavit, which makes me gag at a distance.

 

[boba]

Ah, I think you're looking for the whine thread.

Way Off Topic: Whenever someone writes something using that emotional appeal known as the whine, my go-to response is: are you planning on serving cheese too?

Back on topic: Casta Diva, Cosecha Miel. Everyone knows the dinner and aperitif wines but the dessert wines are where it's at; plus it's bonus drinking time where you can still have cognac in reserve.
Gutierrez de la Vega, winemaker in Spain, it's a moscatel (muscatel) but not like the American knock-offs. I once had a '70 Rieussec that was sublime to say the least. Cosecha Miel rivals the great Sauternes of France. I buy it from Weimax.com.

 

[Umami Zen]

And you're the majority of Americans. To me, there's art in superlative cooking. Training and ingredient knowledge that the average person just doesn't have. And there's no need for it to be "fussy" or "pretentious". The easiest examples are that things like "pot au feu" or "cassoulet" are considered hoity-toity snobbish dishes over here, whereas in France it's peasant/comfort food. It's all context.

I will note though that while it's a small list compared to most, there are more things I don't like than I care to admit to. One of those was brussels sprouts, which I learned to hate as a kid as my mother made it only one way. But I ordered some out of respect for a top local chef who's also a friend, and he got me actually liking the damned things and experimenting with different ways to cook them. I'm actually now growing them in my garden. I still can't stand raisins in anything, the smell of cooked caulflower, and I will pick peas out of whatever I'm eating (except samosas) because of horrific childhood memories of Swanson's TV dinners, but I'd be willing to allow a skilled and inventive cook to make something with those that might just get me to change my mind about them.

I mention this as there's always an outside chance that some cook will find a way to make you actually like something you don't. If I were ever to sit down and eat with Marcus Samuelsson, I imagine he could convince me to like Aqavit, which makes me gag at a distance.

I'm with you on brussels sprouts..Not a huge fan. Was introduced to another presentation of them by my wife--who loves them. .Shredded brussels sprouts ala cabbage for cole slaw.. With some decent olive oil and a light saute.. Makes them seem like a different veggie.

Trader Joe's has them shredded and frozen if you into experimenting.

 

[HuskyHawk]

And you're the majority of Americans. To me, there's art in superlative cooking. Training and ingredient knowledge that the average person just doesn't have. And there's no need for it to be "fussy" or "pretentious". The easiest examples are that things like "pot au feu" or "cassoulet" are considered hoity-toity snobbish dishes over here, whereas in France it's peasant/comfort food. It's all context.

I will note though that while it's a small list compared to most, there are more things I don't like than I care to admit to. One of those was brussels sprouts, which I learned to hate as a kid as my mother made it only one way. But I ordered some out of respect for a top local chef who's also a friend, and he got me actually liking the damned things and experimenting with different ways to cook them. I'm actually now growing them in my garden. I still can't stand raisins in anything, the smell of cooked caulflower, and I will pick peas out of whatever I'm eating (except samosas) because of horrific childhood memories of Swanson's TV dinners, but I'd be willing to allow a skilled and inventive cook to make something with those that might just get me to change my mind about them.

I mention this as there's always an outside chance that some cook will find a way to make you actually like something you don't. If I were ever to sit down and eat with Marcus Samuelsson, I imagine he could convince me to like Aqavit, which makes me gag at a distance.

It‘s a fair point. My list is long, including everything you mentioned except raisins. The smell of Brussels sprouts makes me gag. Cauliflower even mashed with cheddar, is just gross. Peas I can tolerate if what they eat overwhelms them, like in a chicken pot pie. Lima beans are worse than peas. Beets, radishes, gross. Mushrooms, gross. Hate green bell peppers, hate mustard, hate pickles and relish. Don’t like cabbage or sauerkraut. That’s before I get to the things that actually make me ill, onions and garlic. A bit of raw onion will have me vomiting and with stomach cramps. I can be ok with tiny pieces very well cooked, almost rendered.

As a result, I haven’t been all that adventurous with food. If a chef makes something creative, something with ingredients I wouldn’t think to combine, and I like them all…that I will usually try. But I don’t know any chefs or know who is or isn’t good.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

After multiple recommendations over a few years from my sister, I finally shopped at Ancona’s in Wilton and was amazed by their 2 for $20 deals. Excellent family run store in business since the 30s, great blend of attention and/or space when you need it.

Even though it’s still summer, I’m itching to go back to regular red wine drinking. Today’s pick was an Alias Pinot noir 2019: excellent wine for the price point: flavorful but low tannins: juicy, some leather, minerals, caramel. Glad to have picked up two of these!

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Need a recommendation:

Wild first few weeks of school and I want to pick up a nice bottle tonight to pair with a mushroom risotto I'm making.

What's a good red wine to pair with?

 

[storrsroars]

Need a recommendation:

Wild first few weeks of school and I want to pick up a nice bottle tonight to pair with a mushroom risotto I'm making.

What's a good red wine to pair with?

Mushroom risotto goes with a wide range of wines, but when in doubt, stick with something in the general territory of the dish's origin, iow, something from northern Italy. Nebbiolo/Barolo/Barbaresco all work. Even Valpolicella. And if you like Amarones, go for it. But honestly, IMHO the dish goes with just about any sturdier wine you can think of, red or white.

I mentioned Emilio Bulfon Piculit-Neri here before. If you can find it, I think you'll find it really interesting as well as a solid companion for your dish.

And now I'm thinking about mushroom risotto.

 

[8893]

Need a recommendation:

Wild first few weeks of school and I want to pick up a nice bottle tonight to pair with a mushroom risotto I'm making.

What's a good red wine to pair with?

Mushroom risotto goes with a wide range of wines, but when in doubt, stick with something in the general territory of the dish's origin, iow, something from northern Italy. Nebbiolo/Barolo/Barbaresco all work. Even Valpolicella. And if you like Amarones, go for it. But honestly, IMHO the dish goes with just about any sturdier wine you can think of, red or white.

I mentioned Emilio Bulfon Piculit-Neri here before. If you can find it, I think you'll find it really interesting as well as a solid companion for your dish.

And now I'm thinking about mushroom risotto.

Agree with @storrsroars 's northern Italian recs, especially the Nebbiolos. I like Amarones but they are a bit too raisiny for me to love as a food wine; just as I often prefer Nebbiolo rossos to DOCGs like Barolos for most meals, I'd probably go with a Ripasso if I was looking for a Valpolicella.

If you can find a Zweigelt from Austria that would also pair very nicely; as would just about any red Rhone blend.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Thanks @storrsroars and @8893, picked up a 2017 La Sacrestia Langhe Nebbiolo to pair with the mushroom risotto.

My wife and I much prefer drier wines and this Nebbiolo really hit the spot. Had a glass while prepping the meal: nice mineral, subtle fruit and earthy. Awesome pairing once the meal was ready: I like my risotto was a bit of peppery spice, so the wine matched nicely to that note along with the earthy mushroom and chopped spinach. Still a few sips left after the meal to go along some dark chocolate.

Overall, a very nice meal and loved the wine recommendation! I'll try that style of wine again for sure.

 

[8893]

Thanks @storrsroars and @8893, picked up a 2017 La Sacrestia Langhe Nebbiolo to pair with the mushroom risotto.

My wife and I much prefer drier wines and this Nebbiolo really hit the spot. Had a glass while prepping the meal: nice mineral, subtle fruit and earthy. Awesome pairing once the meal was ready: I like my risotto was a bit of peppery spice, so the wine matched nicely to that note along with the earthy mushroom and chopped spinach. Still a few sips left after the meal to go along some dark chocolate.

Overall, a very nice meal and loved the wine recommendation! I'll try that style of wine again for sure.

Langhe Nebbiolo has become a bottle that I always keep in stock because I enjoy it so much and it pairs so well with so many meals. I stock up whenever Last Bottle has the Alessandro Rivetto Langhe Nebbiolo; I just got six of the 2019s the other day and I have two 2018s remaining. At $14 per bottle it totally over-delivers imo.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Time for another quick recommendation Friday!

I have some leftover lemongrass paste that I will use as a base for a salmon marinade. Black sesame and scallions too, not sure what else.

Any red wine styles that pair nicely?

 

[storrsroars]

Time for another quick recommendation Friday!

I have some leftover lemongrass paste that I will use as a base for a salmon marinade. Black sesame and scallions too, not sure what else.

Any red wine styles that pair nicely?

Tough to say w/o the "not sure what else" filled in. Honey? Ginger? Soy? Grilled? Sauteed? Baked?

If grilled and sweet, you might look for something that's fairly forward in the berry family, like a younger Pinot Noir with strawberry notes or a raspberry forward Grenache. Maybe even a Beaujolais. If not grilled, I'd probably go white. Personally, I'd probably go white regardless, but you seem to prefer reds. Good luck!

 

[Umami Zen]

Time for another quick recommendation Friday!

I have some leftover lemongrass paste that I will use as a base for a salmon marinade. Black sesame and scallions too, not sure what else.

Any red wine styles that pair nicely?

IMO.. The flavoring/spices that you'll be using--Which flavor would you expect to dominate your dish? Matching your wine choice to that flavor often works well. Two grapes to check out for salmon.. Tempranillo-Spanish grape --Rioja is the most popular region. Medium-bodied despite its dark color. And although its not red -but "pink" -Rose of Pinot Noir is a nice match w/salmon. Willamette Valley Whole Cluster Rose of Pinot Noir is a bottle my wife and I enjoy with Scottish Salmon. And as @storrsroars has already mentioned.Pinot Noir can work with the right flavoring components.

Enjoy your dinner and wine.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Thanks @Umami Zen and @storrsroars. One of the consolation prizes of Merritt gridlock traffic on Fridays is that I usually take a real nice backroads drive home from school that takes me through Scotts Corners, NY and there's a little liqour store right on the main strip.

Their manager referred me to a Spanish Monastrell called El Pinar de Villena. I've vaguely heard of this style of grape, but have no objective memories of drinking it and I definitely was a fan. Fruity, yet dry and the tannins paired nicely w/ the coriander I crusted on the salmon and the green pepper in the salad. When I grill salmon, I usually keep it a simple olive oil, salt and pepper, but I added beet powder for color and earthiness and coriander for some brightness.

Nice simple meal and paired well with the Monastrell! This Friday "cook something kinda special and pair with a certain bottle" will be a new end of the week tradition.

 

[Umami Zen]

Thanks @Umami Zen and @storrsroars. One of the consolation prizes of Merritt gridlock traffic on Fridays is that I usually take a real nice backroads drive home from school that takes me through Scotts Corners, NY and there's a little liqour store right on the main strip.

Their manager referred me to a Spanish Monastrell called El Pinar de Villena. I've vaguely heard of this style of grape, but have no objective memories of drinking it and I definitely was a fan. Fruity, yet dry and the tannins paired nicely w/ the coriander I crusted on the salmon and the green pepper in the salad. When I grill salmon, I usually keep it a simple olive oil, salt and pepper, but I added beet powder for color and earthiness and coriander for some brightness.

Nice simple meal and paired well with the Monastrell! This Friday "cook something kinda special and pair with a certain bottle" will be a new end of the week tradition.

Always helpful to have a someone at the store you're buying from that knows about wine/food matching.

A quick story that I think you might appreciate based on your dish last night. About 10 years ago at a food/wine pairing lecture at Beringer Winery in Napa as part of a business meeting I was attending. It's 10;30 AM..There are six glasses in front of each attendee--different varietals and food pairings. One of which is one of Beringer's high-end Cabs.The discussion/lecture is only about wine and food pairing.

We finally get to the Cab part of the tasting and one of the attendees raises his hand and expresses his frustration with combining his favorite food-grilled salmon --with his wine collection-largely made up of California Cabs. So the lecturer asks him if he's ever seasoned his grilled salmon with lemon--acidic- and then matched with one of his Cabs. The match is often off-the-charts.

Mention this to you as an interesting story(to me) in the value of the seasoning with wine vs red wine/red meat and white wine/white meat scenario. Was an eye-opener to me.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Bargain alert:

My local liquor store had a $11 sale on 2019 Monte Degli Angeli Pinot Noir. While the store isn't a wine spot, I trust the owner's opinion and it was a hit last night.

Fresh dark fruit juiciness, earthy undertones and at 13% a nice warm finish. Light tannins, overall a very good wine at this price point...will head back to the store today to pick up a few more.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

I got a very nice gift from one of my students: Roederer Estate Brut. I'm not a big time bubbles drinker, but I often enjoy my experience. Anyone tried this before?