Wine thread

[storrsroars]

Well a proper answer entails more than I can give right now, but I’ll start by saying it’s more complex and a better food companion than beer. There is a broad and ever-increasing range of styles and flavor profiles.

The Normandy style is made with a type of spontaneous, wild fermentation called “keeving” that produces a very distinctive style. Using champagne yeast can mimic the carbonation and funkyness a bit; but I think most American ciders use ale yeast.

I first got turned onto the Normandy style ones decades ago as a beer geek with beer geek friends who turned me on to it. Try one and see if you like it. They would pair well with cheeses, charcuterie, light appetizers and probably BBQ because the apple component almost always finds a way to work with BBQ for me for some reason.

Most American ciders are made with yeast ale and range from ones that taste just like plain old apple cider (Downeast is probably the best regional example; Citizen Cider’s Unified Press and Stormalong’s Blue Hills (from CT apples!) are others to look for) to ones that taste like IPAs and sours and most things in between (except no stout or porter equivalents…yet).

I first started drinking them regularly when I was looking to stop drinking beer because it didn’t agree with me. I was a hop head so I started with the ones with that profile and am still drinking them regularly now. Stowe Safety Meeting; Citizen Lake Hopper; Bad Seed and many others.

For sours, Graft Cider out of Newburgh, NY has some of the most interesting ones. Crazy labels and crazy flavors and lots of collaborations. I’ve met the people behind it and they are really smart and good and interesting. I like most of their stuff, although some of it gets a bit out there.

There are also some really nice high end craft ones in the states. Millstone (where the Graft kids got their start), and too many to mention in upstate New York, in the Finger Lakes area, which is really ground zero for the cider renaissance in this country. Angry Orchard (owned by Sam Adams) actually makes some amazing high end ones as well.

To be continued…

I don't think I could ever find the time to drink as much alcohol as you do. And I have lots of free time

 

[8893]

I don't think I could ever find the time to drink as much alcohol as you do. And I have lots of free time

I switch around a lot.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't think I could ever find the time to drink as much alcohol as you do. And I have lots of free time

I switch around a lot.

Same. Switch a lot. @storrsroars overstates my current wine knowledge, which has gone stale from what it was when I was reading books on winemaking and talking to winemakers for hours in CA. But I do tend to soak things up and go all in. When I got into craft beer the second time, I was drinking everything that came out and learning about brewing, especially what made the fledgling NE IPA style possible. But I gave up. Too many breweries and beers, too many calories. Got into bourbon, then Scotch, then rum, then brandy...dabbled in Mezcal. And as before read books, talked to distillers and experts, and tried everything I could. I was on the team that chose this single barrel Cognac and this one last year. Now I've largely given up writing reviews on spirits and trading samples etc. I do recommend Fine Drams though, great place to get Scotch you can't get otherwise, usually at lower prices than here even after shipping costs. Jonas does a terrific job.

Cider has been fun because I haven't done what I did with wine, beer and spirits. I just drink it and some are good and some are meh. The Normandy ciders were great. We have lots of good craft cider in the Northeast. My favorite so far is Artifact. Several good ones in Vermont. Ace makes a very good pear cider. @8893 one of the better Normandy style ciders I've had in the U.S. was from Eden in Vermont.

On the wine front, as @ColchVEGAS said, I'm just looking for good wine at a good price. That used to be incredibly easy to find, and now it takes some effort. I think that's where we can help each other here. To that end, I highly recommend this super cheap California Pinot Grigio. I grabbed it for $8 at BJs and I think we've bought a case since then. Has a real key lime and flint flavor profile that is just pleasant. Prefer it to the bland Italian PGs I've had.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Being in suburban Pittsburgh, most of my friends and acquaintances these days drink light beer, White Claw and Fireball, lol.

Was never much of a wine storyteller anyway. I would just hope they liked what I was serving. I bored a lot of people with coffee talk though.

Burlington is home to one of the best coffee analytics labs in the nation, Coffee Enterprises. I interviewed there years ago and much as I thought I knew, I was completely humbled by the level of their expertise and flew home with my tail between my legs. Actually an amazing number of quality coffee shops for a town as small as Burlington, so your son's friend should do well.

I know nothing about coffee. Didn't really drink it for most of my life. But Burlington doesn't surprise me. I watched this place go up in Waterbury. Vermont Artisan Coffee & Tea Co. (vtartisan.com) The whole state has to be the least corporate/chain oriented place I've ever been in this country. Everything seems to be bespoke, artisan and/or local. Hard to find a fast food place, except off some highway exits for tourists. When we had work done on our house, no contractor would even consider getting something from Home Depot in Rutland. Only the independent places. Coffee, beer, cider, spirits, cheese, meat, produce, clothing, they take that farm to table approach to almost everything.

There is something to be said for it. I think it's the same mindset we see with those house wines in Europe.

 

[storrsroars]

Same. Switch a lot. @storrsroars overstates my current wine knowledge, which has gone stale from what it was when I was reading books on winemaking and talking to winemakers for hours in CA. But I do tend to soak things up and go all in. When I got into craft beer the second time, I was drinking everything that came out and learning about brewing, especially what made the fledgling NE IPA style possible. But I gave up. Too many breweries and beers, too many calories. Got into bourbon, then Scotch, then rum, then brandy...dabbled in Mezcal. And as before read books, talked to distillers and experts, and tried everything I could. I was on the team that chose this single barrel Cognac and this one last year. Now I've largely given up writing reviews on spirits and trading samples etc. I do recommend Fine Drams though, great place to get Scotch you can't get otherwise, usually at lower prices than here even after shipping costs. Jonas does a terrific job.

Cider has been fun because I haven't done what I did with wine, beer and spirits. I just drink it and some are good and some are meh. The Normandy ciders were great. We have lots of good craft cider in the Northeast. My favorite so far is Artifact. Several good ones in Vermont. Ace makes a very good pear cider. @8893 one of the better Normandy style ciders I've had in the U.S. was from Eden in Vermont.

On the wine front, as @ColchVEGAS said, I'm just looking for good wine at a good price. That used to be incredibly easy to find, and now it takes some effort. I think that's where we can help each other here. To that end, I highly recommend this super cheap California Pinot Grigio. I grabbed it for $8 at BJs and I think we've bought a case since then. Has a real key lime and flint flavor profile that is just pleasant. Prefer it to the bland Italian PGs I've had.

For more years than I wish to remember, it was very hard for me to actually enjoy a cup of coffee or espresso as my default would be to look for flaws and fixate on those. I am so glad to be over that. I still buy good cofffee, albeit from my Whole Foods, which carries Ceremony roasted within 4 weeks at $12.99/12oz when it sells for >$16 at indy shops. The farmer already got paid the premium over C market price, which is all that really matters. Roasters can take the hit from their considerable margins if they want WF distribution.

To a lesser extent I did that with wine. Which was stupid as I had no professional interest. My job is to either enjoy it or not, not overanalyze the stuff. For awhile I simply couldn't let a bottle surprise me. Especially expensive ones. I had to retrain myself to just forget about all that crap. I had to come to terms with knowing what I like and what I don't (grassy, oaky, hard tannins) and to stop rationalizing why I accepted things in a bottle I didn't care for, which was usually only to appear like I knew something about the winemaker's intentions. I now appreciate winemakers who take a different path from what the mass market wants and produce wines that do hold surprises and can take me for a ride. It's kind of how I deal with music these days. Just tired of the familiar, give me a new sound.

I do think your better at this than me for what's probably a pretty dumb reason - you're good at your scotch evaluations while also enjoying bourbon. I can't reconcile that for myself. It's like being both a Yankees and Mets fan. I don't enjoy straight bourbon. Too sweet for me. In some cases too butterscotch. So I'd say you're less prejudicial. The only two spirits I drink straight are scotch and vodka - and not expensive vodka, which I mostly find BS. It's mostly just branding (I'll make an exception for Chopin).

Hell, I don't even like gin martinis. It took years to admit that, lol. And I actually prefer my cheap store brand tonic water (sometimes diet) over the artisanal stuff. And that's OK because it's not out of ignorance, I've tried. It's simply preference and maybe some PQR calculations in the back of my head. If I really want a drink with Hendricks, I'll order it out, because that drink will be the same price as one made with Bombay or Tanqueray, bottles which are $10 cheaper.

Maybe I'm just getting cheap in my old age, lol.

We have what's supposed to be a very good cider producer here. I haven't been. Not sure if I want to even open up what could be yet another Pandora's box...

 

[Umami Zen]

Seems like you guys have a dramatically different marital arrangement than I do based on the broad diversity of experiences with different adult beverages that you have.. By that I mean that our marriage -at one time- included Vodka Martinis/Bourbon or scotch/wine and champagne -pairing meals (her passion) pre-Covid to now not wanting to drink at all other than an occasional Mic Ultra. Apparently my attempt at charm/intelligent conversation/sense of humor isn't working like it used to--has taken a hit. I still enjoy adult beverages-but now in moderation for self-preservation and/or marital bliss!

So now you know that I live vicariously through your experiences/stories/travels.

If I had a lane it would be either wine or spirits.. Scottish by heritage so I need to be able to enjoy a wee dram from either a quaich or a Glencairn.

Truly enjoy pairing wine with food/flavors/seasonings.

 

[8893]

@Umami Zen , there is a banging rose favorite of mine from Piemonte up on Last Bottle right now. This is one I buy every year, and just picked up six again:

Last Bottle Wines - View Today's Offer

Wines you actually want to drink at the lowest prices you'll ever see!

www.lastbottlewines.com

 

[Umami Zen]

@Umami Zen , there is a banging rose favorite of mine from Piemonte up on Last Bottle right now. This is one I buy every year, and just picked up six again:

Last Bottle Wines - View Today's Offer

Wines you actually want to drink at the lowest prices you'll ever see!

www.lastbottlewines.com

Thx for heads up.. Really have been into the rose lane for about 4 or 5 years and am enjoying the creativity and variety that growers are bringing to the market.

Have a few friends who are Cab snobs and they just don't get it.

Edit{Definitely have to get more serious about Rosatos .. Haven't spent a lot of time on our friends in Italy re: rose.

 

[storrsroars]

@Umami Zen , there is a banging rose favorite of mine from Piemonte up on Last Bottle right now. This is one I buy every year, and just picked up six again:

Last Bottle Wines - View Today's Offer

Wines you actually want to drink at the lowest prices you'll ever see!

www.lastbottlewines.com

Once again, PA fails. N/A here.

 

[Umami Zen]

@8893 inspired me..Went to local store(not Big Box)..Looked for Rosatos--Will need to go somewhere else.

So I say to Nick-- Italian dude-part owner who I brainstorm with on pairing food and wine. --Price point doesn't matter(within reason).. Which roses are you most excited about re:taste and value??

Monte Ory--Spain Rose of -Grenache // 11 Minutes-Pasqua-Italy- Rose Trevenezie//Willamette Valley-Oregon-Whole cluster Rose of Pinot Noir//Yealands--New Zealand-Sauvignon Blanc Rose..His favorite winning wine tastings at the store for $8.99

All four bottles for 50 bucks.. Will let you know how it goes.

 

[8893]

11 Minutes-Pasqua-Italy- Rose Trevenezie

This is one of the better, widely-available ones; and a distinctive bottle to boot. Should be right around $14. From Verona, and it helped me seek out others from that area; the two others I've had have both also been very good with a similar flavor profile. Perfect example of what I love about Rosatos: you get the influence of all these interesting grapes distintive to that region, in this case Corvina, Carménère, Trebbiano, Syrah

 

[storrsroars]

Just got an email about new places opening up, including 8 new breweries (we already have about 60), but one place caught my eye. Is cocktails in a growler a thing now?

Goodlander Cocktail Brewery, 6614 Hamilton Ave., Larimer

Wes Shonk is mixing up big batches of cocktails in Larimer, from Moscow Mules and Mojitos to G&Ts. By the end of May, customers can fill returnable glass growlers with bubbly, on-tap beverages. When the place opens for on-site consumption later this year, patrons will be able to sip from a highball glass at the bar.

I'll be interested to see how it does, especially as it's in a not-yet-gentrified part of town.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Just got an email about new places opening up, including 8 new breweries (we already have about 60), but one place caught my eye. Is cocktails in a growler a thing now?



I'll be interested to see how it does, especially as it's in a not-yet-gentrified part of town.

It makes sense to me, if it is allowed. I will say there is a growing crossover between the craft beer crowd and the recent cocktail culture focused on better ingredients and classic drinks. Just recently Treehouse Brewing announced a new distillery. General 2 — Tree House Brewing Company. Both they and Trillium now have coffee too. It feels like a cultural thing to me. Barrel aged cocktails have become a thing so I can see how a growler type system could work as well, but not with everything.

 

[Umami Zen]

My son is in Denver as a business development guy for micro-brews just launching their businesses in need of brewing capacity. Among the new trends there is cannabis infused beer combinations. They haven't perfected it yet but Corona and Budweiser(among others) are doing their own experimentations in this space.

Stay tuned.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Cabernet sauvignon recs for under $20?

Last week, I was at a friend's house and had my first cab in a few years and it was excellent. With cool, rainy weather this evening, I wanted to pick up a bottle for tonight.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Cabernet sauvignon recs for under $20?

Last week, I was at a friend's house and had my first cab in a few years and it was excellent. With cool, rainy weather this evening, I wanted to pick up a bottle for tonight.

Depends on what you have available to you.
I sometimes find this at $20, but it may be more. I like it a lot. Hess Allomi Cabernet | Top Selling Wine|The Hess Collection
I used to like the Simi Alexander Valley, but now it is "Sonoma County" and is not as good.
Alexander Valley Vineyards has a Cab that is about $18 and is quite nice
Franciscan Napa Valley Cab is good.

Sometimes you can find something browsing. For California, aside from big names, I will seek out anything that says Estate Grown. Beyond that, it should at least be grown and cellared by or produced and cellared by, and come from a AVA that is not "California", and preferably narrower than "Sonoma County" or "North Coast". California Wine Regions - View AVAs and Varietals By Region (cawineclub.com)

 

[8893]

Cabernet sauvignon recs for under $20?

Last week, I was at a friend's house and had my first cab in a few years and it was excellent. With cool, rainy weather this evening, I wanted to pick up a bottle for tonight.

I am hard to please with store-bought Cabs at that price range, which is why I stock up on deals when I find them. Usually inexpensive Bordeauxs from great vintages and hold them for a year or ten; or Ty Caton from Sonoma when they have it on Last Bottle for a deep discount. Neither of those will help you today.

For CA Cabs otherwise in that price range I would look for a Kendall Jackson reserve, which I have found to be reliable.

Your best value in store-bought Cabs in that range is probably going to be Chilean. Look for Cousino Macul Antiguas Reserva. That is one of our honeymoon wines (we went to Costa Rica) and I always buy it when I see it. It holds up pretty consistently across vintages. IIRC they use old vines that they transplanted from France before phylloxera hit and they therefore have some of the oldest vines.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Went with a '18 Marietta Arme.

Bottled and grown on premises in the North Coast of Sonoma. Their grapes are grown over three locations in the area (Geyserville, McDowell, Yorkville).

Highly recommended by the owner: at $27, over what I wanted to spend but after 18 months of 500 ml mini-boxes of Bota and Black Box (we're both trying to drink less and both brands' Pinor Noir is shockingly decent) I felt the need to treat ourselves to something decent.

Looking forward to trying it later this evening along with some postin' and toastin'.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Went with a '18 Marietta Arme.

Bottled and grown on premises in the North Coast of Sonoma. Their grapes are grown over three locations in the area (Geyserville, McDowell, Yorkville).

Highly recommended by the owner: at $27, over what I wanted to spend but after 18 months of mini-boxes of Bota and Black Box (we're both trying to drink less and both brands' Pinor Noir is shockingly decent) I felt the need to treat ourselves to something decent.

Looking forward to trying it later this evening along with some postin' and toastin'.

The Botta Box and Black Box is not appreciably worse than most $8-10 stuff. Never had the Marietta, but it seems to fit the description I was going for. For U.S. wines: know who made it and know where the grapes come from. If you don't know, that's a big red flag. It may be decent, but it's luck of the draw. So much crap on the end of the aisle at the liquor store with a splashy label is just bulk produced from who knows where and bottled. Usually "on sale" from $24 to $16.99, when it's a $10 bottle.

Let us know how it is.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Let us know how it is.

Not impressed. Pretty subdued and acidic. Taste the alcohol more than any other note (dark fruits, caramel, tobacco).

 

[methodology]

Cabernet sauvignon recs for under $20?

Last week, I was at a friend's house and had my first cab in a few years and it was excellent. With cool, rainy weather this evening, I wanted to pick up a bottle for tonight.

Try Indian Wells should be around $17-18

 

[HuskyHawk]

Not impressed. Pretty subdued and acidic. Taste the alcohol more than any other note (dark fruits, caramel, tobacco).

Disappointing. It is 14.6% which is slightly high.

 

[8893]

Not impressed. Pretty subdued and acidic. Taste the alcohol more than any other note (dark fruits, caramel, tobacco).

If you didn't finish the bottle I'd be interested to see how it tastes tonight. Sometimes the booze blows off with aeration; the Vinturi helps accelerate that.

 

[Hey Adrien!]

If you didn't finish the bottle I'd be interested to see how it tastes tonight. Sometimes the booze blows off with aeration; the Vinturi helps accelerate that.

Finished the bottle. The cab I had the other week was Joel Gott, which sells for around $15. Loved that wine.

 

[8893]

Finished the bottle. The cab I had the other week was Joel Gott, which sells for around $15. Loved that wine.

Yeah that's a pretty dependable one.

 

[storrsroars]

Yeah that's a pretty dependable one.

I've never really given Gott a thought, due to a prejudice against consortiums like Trinchero. Then again, I buy a lot of Diageo and my current tequila for margaritas is Tres Agaves, so it's not like there's a little hypocrisy in my own liquor cabinet.

 

[8893]

I've never really given Gott a thought, due to a prejudice against consortiums like Trinchero. Then again, I buy a lot of Diageo and my current tequila for margaritas is Tres Agaves, so it's not like there's a little hypocrisy in my own liquor cabinet.

I don’t buy it. Friends of ours are fans and they usually bring it when they come over for dinner. Diageo is hard to avoid though. They own Guinness!

 

[HuskyHawk]

I've never really given Gott a thought, due to a prejudice against consortiums like Trinchero. Then again, I buy a lot of Diageo and my current tequila for margaritas is Tres Agaves, so it's not like there's a little hypocrisy in my own liquor cabinet.

I don’t buy it. Friends of ours are fans and they usually bring it when they come over for dinner. Diageo is hard to avoid though. They own Guinness!

Diageo owns your favorite Scotch distillery too. And several others. As with spirits, I feel like you're going to get competently made stuff with the mega brand wines. It's just not likely to be as unique and interesting. Constellation has a ton in every category too.

 

[storrsroars]

Diageo owns your favorite Scotch distillery too. And several others. As with spirits, I feel like you're going to get competently made stuff with the mega brand wines. It's just not likely to be as unique and interesting. Constellation has a ton in every category too.

I don't know if Diageo made significant or even noticable changes to the taste/formulations/recipes of the distillery brands they purchased. My issue with Trainchero is that they more or less "design" wines for consumption within a narrow price range and according to (more or less unrefined, to me) public tastes, rather than letting the grapes speak for themselves. Remember, these were the guys who created Sutter Home white zinfandel. Other wines they carry are probably perfectly quaffable, but as you sort of note, someone willing to look around for better/more unique within that price range will likely find it.

 

[methodology]

Had this the other night it was fantastic.