Will Jefferson replace Bird on UCONN's All-Time Starting 5? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Will Jefferson replace Bird on UCONN's All-Time Starting 5?

Will Jefferson replace Bird on UCONN's All-Time Starting 5?

  • Yes

    Votes: 58 58.0%

  • No

    Votes: 42 42.0%
  • Total voters
    100
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If Mo brings home any of the NPOY awards, as did Sue in 2002, her accomplishments are equal to Sue's. If she wins the Leiberman award twice and the National championship four times, I think her accomplishments surpass Sue's.

if indeed she is a top-two WNBA draft pick and goes on to have the sort of success as a professional that Sue has had, that may factor even more. There's a lingering UConn penumbra that is cast on the program, even with players who have long since graduated. Sue has been the heart and soul of UConn as a student-athlete and a professional. That's why she's on the UConn all-time starting five. Moriah is and can be that heart and soul at every level too. That's why she may well replace Sue at that vaunted position.
 
alexrgct said:
If Mo brings home any of the NPOY awards, as did Sue in 2002, her accomplishments are equal to Sue's. If she wins the Leiberman award twice and the National championship four times, I think her accomplishments surpass Sue's.

if indeed she is a top-two WNBA draft pick and goes on to have the sort of success as a professional that Sue has had, that may factor even more.
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I love Moriah. But, as we bask in the glow of her performance in a 44-point blowout, and anticipation of a 4th straight NC after the first game (I'm guilty too), I hope we don't let the years fade our memories of Sue. In Sue's NPOY year She won the Wade and Naismith. She won the first three Lieberman Awards and was a top one WNBA draft pick.
 
pppggg said:
Bird At The Buzzer. Period!
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I would rather have Sue with the ball with a few ticks left than Moriah.....Sue seemed more consistent at the three than Moriah.....
 
bballnut90 said:
So Jefferson just put on a dazzling display and led the Huskies to a 44 point win over a top 10 team on the road. Let's fast forward 5 months. UCONN cuts down the nets for the 4th year in a row, UCONN has another undefeated season and Jefferson is a 1st Team All-American, but she doesn't get close to the amount of press that Stewart obtains over the course of the year. After this happens, does Jefferson displace Bird on the All Time Starting 5? The starting 5 being:
PG-Bird
SG-Taurasi
SF-Moore
PF-Stewart
C-Charles

My vote is a resounding yes if you compare their UCONN careers head to head. Statistically, there isn't a comparison between the two--Jefferson is better across the board and is the more efficient player. She beats you off the dribble, finishes at the rim, shoots a high percentage from deep and hit a pull up jumper tonight which could be a new move in her arsenal. Bird was an efficient guard for UCONN but offensively her bread and butter has always been knocking down open looks and hitting pull up jumpers.

Defensively, there's no comparison. Defense has never been a strong point in Bird's game, and Jefferson has been the best defensive guard in the nation for 3 years now. She just shut down the top scorer in the nation who put up 36 against the #2 team in the country 4 days earlier.

Jefferson will finish with 4 titles to Bird's 2, and was a major factor on 3 of the 4 teams. Jefferson will likely graduate with better stats across the board and will be named a 1st team All-American this year (with runner up votes for NPOY) and should etch her name in the record books for assists, steals, A/TO ratio, FG% and 3pt%.

Bird was a great guard who was the standout of the outstanding 2002 team and a major difference maker for the 2000 title team and 2001 Final Four team, but when you compare each player's UCONN career in full, no question I'd vote for Jefferson.
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Blasphemer.jpg
 
j66kicker said:
Yeah how do you factor in the "clutch" factor when Moriah never gets to play any competitive games? ??
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People asked the same question about Maya. See the second half of the 2010 NCAA championship game for an answer. Or the last 2 seconds of the 2015 WNBA Finals game 3 against Indiana.
 
I love Sue, to death, but Moriah is the best pg, hands down. She can penetrate at will, then finish once she gets there. She can shoot the three, at a high percentage. Her defense, is the best ever, for a point guard at UConn.

I would say, that if MoJeff, had played with Maya, we would have 2 more NCAA titles.
 
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Phillyconn said:
I love Sue, to death, but Moriah is the best pg, hands down. She can penetrate at will, then finish once she gets there. She can shoot the three, at a high percentage. Her defense, is the best ever, for a point guard at UConn.

I would say, that if MoJeff, had played with Maya, we would have 2 more NCAA titles.
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Uh, uh... there is something wrong with this math, right? :rolleyes:
 
alexrgct said:
If Mo brings home any of the NPOY awards, as did Sue in 2002, her accomplishments are equal to Sue's. If she wins the Leiberman award twice and the National championship four times, I think her accomplishments surpass Sue's.

if indeed she is a top-two WNBA draft pick and goes on to have the sort of success as a professional that Sue has had, that may factor even more. There's a lingering UConn penumbra that is cast on the program, even with players who have long since graduated. Sue has been the heart and soul of UConn as a student-athlete and a professional. That's why she's on the UConn all-time starting five. Moriah is and can be that heart and soul at every level too. That's why she may well replace Sue at that vaunted position.
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Moriah could possibly have 4 NCAA titles. She's in the conversation for POY, with BS, who could be the greatest of all time. I say, case closed.
 
Phillyconn said:
Maya won 2, with Moriah on her team, she wins 4.
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And when did Moriah's NCAA eligibility run out - at the end of her sophomore year...or earlier...Maya left in 2011, so Mo would have left in 2013??

So she would not have been here for the last 2? Would we win those without her?
 
RockyMTblue2 said:
And when did Moriah's NCAA eligibility run out - at the end of her sophomore year...or earlier...Maya left in 2011, so Mo would have left in 2013??

So she would not have been here for the last 2? Would we win those without her?
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Are you serious? If, Mo had played with Maya.
Without Mo? No.
 
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Phillyconn said:
Are you serious? If, Mo had played with Maya.
Without Mo? No.
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I give up. No. If Mo had played with Maya, she would not be here or last year or maybe 2 last years. You make me so crazy I've lost count! But, well, maybe I do give up. Mo and Maya perfect together forever. Oh, wait, we'll never know until they play together in the WNBA or Turkey or Belaruss or China ....
 
RockyMTblue2 said:
I give up. No. If Mo had played with Maya, she would not be here or last year or maybe 2 last years. You make me so crazy I've lost count! But, well, maybe I do give up. Mo and Maya perfect together forever. Oh, wait, we'll never know until they play together in the WNBA or Turkey or Belaruss or China ....
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Why do you make this sooooo difficult? I was hypothetically speaking. I'm saying, had Mo played during Maya's years, I think UConn wins 4. She's that good. Could you imagine, Mo playing with Sales? Can't think of a better 2-way guard tandem.
 
Interesting question. Sue is one of the smartest, most clutch, and most accomplished players around. She is currently the most decorated USA Basketball player ever and will be in the HOF in Springfield. But Moriah takes over games at both ends of the floor unlike any guard I've ever seen. Let's see how the season transpires. It's hard to believe that this will be Moriah's final season with us, so let's enjoy every play.
 
wire chief said:
With Sue thought of as in a different era, I'm reminded of revised debate now and then about whether Jim Brown s the greatest
running back. Sometimes the debate is put to rest over no one has matched his 5.2 lifetime average gain(Randall Cunningham
has more as a qb).
Do we have some clear stat in the Sue/Mo competition that is a debate silencer?
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I think there are a couple people could point to:
1. A/TO - Sue 2.11 Moriah 2.57
2. Shooting percentage - Sue .481 Moriah .547
But show stopper ... no.
 
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Phillyconn said:
Why do you make this sooooo difficult? I was hypothetically speaking. I'm saying, had Mo played during Maya's years, I think UConn wins 4. She's that good. Could you imagine, Mo playing with Sales? Can't think of a better 2-way guard tandem.
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Ah but you didn't say that originally.

You said if Jefferson played with Moore, "we" (UCONN) would have 2 more titles. I believe Rocky's making the point if Jefferson had played with Moore, we wouldn't have had Jefferson for any of the last 3 years (i.e. eligibility). Hence we may not have won in these last 3 years, or maybe 1 of 3, etc. Hence, UCONN wouldn't have won "2 more" and might have even won 1 less.

You gotta read what you write.
 
j66kicker said:
I love Moriah. But, as we bask in the glow of her performance in a 44-point blowout, and anticipation of a 4th straight NC after the first game (I'm guilty too), I hope we don't let the years fade our memories of Sue. In Sue's NPOY year She won the Wade and Naismith. She won the first three Lieberman Awards and was a top one WNBA draft pick.
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I always tryy to avoid knee-jerk reactions, but my appreciation for Mo has been years in the making. There's still virtually an entire season to be played for college career to be a factor, but I'd argue Mo may just surpass Sue as far as UConn accomplishments. her 2014-15 NC was on par with Sue's 2000 NC, and she could win at least one NPOY award while leading a team that's the caliber of 2002. Meanwhile, she would have received more WBCA AA nods and been a part of two more NCs.

That all being said, I think we still have to consider how much Sue's post-collegiate career has meant for the UConn program, and Mo's pro career will be a huge factor in this conversation. Being #1 vs. #2 as the draft pick is not a huge difference given that neither Sue nor Mo would be/have been drafted ahead of Stewie. But what Sue did after the draft was wonderful for UConn in any event. The WNBA and Team USA have the shadow of the Husky logo all over them, and Sue is a big reason why. Will Mo replicate or enhance the shadow cast upon the iconic institutions of post-collegiate WBB? Time will tell,,,
 
Kibitzer said:
I reluctantly concede the points made so often and so persuasively that Moriah's demonstrated skills, records established and overall achievements at UConn (especially if she collects a fourth NC ring) transcend those of Sue Bird. HOWEVER. . .

There are some people who are simply irreplaceable, seemingly larger than life in their field. The sports world has its share (Babe Ruth, Cy Young, Vince Lombardi, Muhammad Ali, to name a few who leap to mind). In other endeavors, consider Thomas Edison. Henry Ford, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Mark Twain, Martin Luther King, Clarence Darrow or Norman Borlaug(!) -- and many others (including Ludwig, Wolfgang, etc.).

So it is with Sue Bird. She is so revered by UConn fans like me that I can't bear the thought of her being somehow "replaceable" (like a dead car battery), so I abstain from voting.
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I wish I had written that--just perfect. Some people are simply irreplaceable, seemingly larger than life
 
meyers7 said:
Ah but you didn't say that originally.

You said if Jefferson played with Moore, "we" (UCONN) would have 2 more titles. I believe Rocky's making the point if Jefferson had played with Moore, we wouldn't have had Jefferson for any of the last 3 years (i.e. eligibility). Hence we may not have won in these last 3 years, or maybe 1 of 3, etc. Hence, UCONN wouldn't have won "2 more" and might have even won 1 less.

You gotta read what you write.
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If DT played with Jefferson, if Thomas had played with Jefferson, If Moore had played with Jefferson, If Rene had played with Jefferson,
iIf Bird had played with Jefferson, If Griner had played with Jefferson, etc all hypothetical near impossible situations--yet we discuss them.
 
Sue was orchestrating against better competition. Moriah simply has not had to run the show against that many strong teams. She's certainly quicker than Sue, and is a better defender. But Sue's running of a team is unmatched . That's the great intangible. There may never be another point guard like Sue Bird.
 
boontonbomber said:
Sue was orchestrating against better competition. Moriah simply has not had to run the show against that many strong teams. She's certainly quicker than Sue, and is a better defender. But Sue's running of a team is unmatched . That's the great intangible. There may never be another point guard like Sue Bird.
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I beg to differ on M.J. NOT running any show against STRONG teams? Define STRONG TEAM!!! In my less than humble OPINION--the talent of the last 8 years on many team has been very high. No she never got to play Tenn--mostly because Tenn failed to make the final4. She played the best available and Uconn won.
What team did Sue play that exceeded those teams played by a Moriah led team?? Parker/Griner neither played them.
I have loved Sue Bird since she arrived at Uconn--she alone put Christ the King on the map of WBB--she was leading a team of top STARS and at times taking over the game to win. WNBA and Olympics and European (Russian) playing has vaulted her to the top of Excellence.
I shall always love SUE.
I'm not one for using Dogmatic undefinable statements even about SUE. If you can't quantify "running a team" you really can't use that in comparing Sue to Moriah as College (4 years or) Seniors.
The Jefferson I have seen, since she arrived on campus, TO ME, was equal to Sue in many way--.
Yet we are speaking of two of the GREATEST POINT guards ON Floor Generals to ever wear a UConn uniform. That has to be enough for any fan and Jefferson has a full season ahead of her!!!
 
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trb123 said:
My starting five is (are? Please correct) Charles, Stewart, Moore, Taurasi, Jefferson.

I have a problem with the bench.

Bird, Dolson, Hartley, Cash.

Who is the 5th?

Ralph? Tuck?

Due apologies to Lobo and Sales.
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My Starting 5 would be Jefferson, Bird, Taurasi, Moore, and Stewart the best 5 Uconn players.
 
baggerbob said:
My Starting 5 would be Jefferson, Bird, Taurasi, Moore, and Stewart the best 5 Uconn players.
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Now THAT'S diplomacy! (Who plays the point? You could make a case for DT, a 2-time Lieberman winner....?)
 
boontonbomber said:
Sue was orchestrating against better competition. Moriah simply has not had to run the show against that many strong teams. She's certainly quicker than Sue, and is a better defender. But Sue's running of a team is unmatched . That's the great intangible. There may never be another point guard like Sue Bird.
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She's quicker, a much better defender. MOJeff penetrates at will, where she can finish or dish off for an assist. She can shoot the three with the best of them. Sue, runs the show better? Sue had some pretty good players in her years. So, how does Sue run the show better? Mo has 3 titles to show for her efforts, with another on the way. Geno said that she controls the pace, on both sides of the floor. Mo is the best pg that we have ever had, period.
 
Phillyconn said:
She's quicker, a much better defender. MOJeff penetrates at will, where she can finish or dish off for an assist. She can shoot the three with the best of them. Sue, runs the show better? Sue had some pretty good players in her years. So, how does Sue run the show better? Mo has 3 titles to show for her efforts, with another on the way. Geno said that she controls the pace, on both sides of the floor. Mo is the best pg that we have ever had, period.
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Mo will have 4 titles, but as j66kicker said above, Sue is the only woman to win 3 Liebermans . Period.
 
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