Will Jefferson replace Bird on UCONN's All-Time Starting 5?

[bballnut90]

So Jefferson just put on a dazzling display and led the Huskies to a 44 point win over a top 10 team on the road. Let's fast forward 5 months. UCONN cuts down the nets for the 4th year in a row, UCONN has another undefeated season and Jefferson is a 1st Team All-American, but she doesn't get close to the amount of press that Stewart obtains over the course of the year. After this happens, does Jefferson displace Bird on the All Time Starting 5? The starting 5 being:
PG-Bird
SG-Taurasi
SF-Moore
PF-Stewart
C-Charles

My vote is a resounding yes if you compare their UCONN careers head to head. Statistically, there isn't a comparison between the two--Jefferson is better across the board and is the more efficient player. She beats you off the dribble, finishes at the rim, shoots a high percentage from deep and hit a pull up jumper tonight which could be a new move in her arsenal. Bird was an efficient guard for UCONN but offensively her bread and butter has always been knocking down open looks and hitting pull up jumpers.

Defensively, there's no comparison. Defense has never been a strong point in Bird's game, and Jefferson has been the best defensive guard in the nation for 3 years now. She just shut down the top scorer in the nation who put up 36 against the #2 team in the country 4 days earlier.

Jefferson will finish with 4 titles to Bird's 2, and was a major factor on 3 of the 4 teams. Jefferson will likely graduate with better stats across the board and will be named a 1st team All-American this year (with runner up votes for NPOY) and should etch her name in the record books for assists, steals, A/TO ratio, FG% and 3pt%.

Bird was a great guard who was the standout of the outstanding 2002 team and a major difference maker for the 2000 title team and 2001 Final Four team, but when you compare each player's UCONN career in full, no question I'd vote for Jefferson.

 

[Wally East]

Given the idea that some hold that more rings = better player, this shouldn't even be close

 

[UcMiami]

Bird's career shooting percentage from 3 will not be better by Jefferson (I don't think.) Otherwise - she will be first or second in assists, second in steals, first for guards in field goal percentage, first in A/TO ratio, first in rings, and first in wow moments! Second in Liebermans to Bird.

Yes - I think as a college player she passes Bird, but for a total career we will have to wait and see - that will be harder.

(And just an aside - Because of her lost year, Bird's averages per game will probably remain higher than Moriah's in most career totals.)

 

[xHunt3r]

Are we just considering the UConn part of their careers? Sue has accomplished a LOT in basketball after UConn... WNBA championships, Euro Championships, World Championship gold medals, Olympic gold medals... All-WNBA first team x 4, All-WNBA second team x 3, WNBA All-Star x 9, WNBA All-Decade team, etc etc...

 

[HoopsFan21]

Are we just considering the UConn part of their careers? Sue has accomplished a LOT in basketball after UConn... WNBA championships, Euro Championships, World Championship gold medals, Olympic gold medals... All-WNBA first team x 4, All-WNBA second team x 3, WNBA All-Star x 9, WNBA All-Decade team, etc etc...

Yes, the original poster specifically mentioned "UCONN careers."

 

[pppggg]

Bird At The Buzzer. Period!

 

[60'sfan]

Two years ago I said, on this board, that Moriah Jefferson would be considered the best Uconn guard ever when she finished her career. At the time she was already the best defensively but hadn't yet developed her offensive game. Now, there is no doubt in my mind. We have had some great guards but she is clearly the best IMHO.

 

[TWG236]

I said earlier, MO will has become the best point guard ever to play at UCONN. Yes, Sue did make several great shots and she will always be in the mix as one of UCONN's greatest players, but MO's overall game has both caught and surpassed Sue and all of the others. Also by the end of her career MO will most likely have won 4 NC. And according to most "experts", we always judge greatness by the number of championships. After last nights game, this is going to be one fun season to watch.

 

[CL82]

Analytically I think that you have go with MoJeff, but I just can't vote against Bird, ever, for pretty much anything. I love that kid (who is now nearing the end of her pro career.) Of course I can't vote against Moriah either so....

These types of Kemba vs. Shabazz debates are tough on the fans. How can you pick a favorite?

 

[j66kicker]

Bird At The Buzzer. Period!

Yeah how do you factor in the "clutch" factor when Moriah never gets to play any competitive games? ??

 

[BroadwayVa]

Bird's career shooting percentage from 3 will not be better by Jefferson (I don't think.) Otherwise - she will be first or second in assists, second in steals, first for guards in field goal percentage, first in A/TO ratio, first in rings, and first in wow moments! Second in Liebermans to Bird.

Yes - I think as a college player she passes Bird, but for a total career we will have to wait and see - that will be harder.

(And just an aside - Because of her lost year, Bird's averages per game will probably remain higher than Moriah's in most career totals.)

AS A COLLEGE PLAYER AT UCONN--Jefferson is the best. Difficult for me to say that. I love everything BIRD--I guess you never really forget your First (WBB) Love. Sue was hobbled by ACL's issues a bit. The mind set of both Jefferson/Bird were WIN WIN WIN--I'll make the shot needed.

 

[VAMike23]

As recently as last spring when she had won her 3rd title, I still would not have predicted that she would eclipse Bird on the all-time starting 5. I would have left open the possibility, depending on how her senior year went, of course, but I would not have predicted it actually happening. Bird was that good. But now, after the OSU game, I can see why Geno says all of the 4 starters came back better--including Mo. Until I see reason to change my mind, I still see Bird as our floor general nonpareil but Mo is simply a bigger threat to damage the opponent across the board. She hurts you, badly, in so many ways, and the damage is consistent. While the OSU game is only one data point, in my mind it's also the upward continuation of a clear trend.

So I believe the scales are beginning to tip. The highest compliment that I can pay to Moriah Jefferson is that I just voted "Yes" in the poll above...!

 

[Icebear]

It is an embarrassment of riches to even consider this conversation.

 

[uconn34]

Different players, different times, we are lucky they both play/played for us!

 

[Zorro]

I love Sue, as do we all. But MoJet is the best wcbb point guard of all time. Numero uno.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

If MoJeff remains healthy she will own all the UCONN PG records, and WCBB records!
What separates Sue Bird is her WNBA, European and Olympic records! And that is what makes Sue the best PG in WBB history!
MoJeff may get the WBB records after she graduates!

 

[Ctpaul0825]

I also believe Moriah is the best pg ever however she has never been in a situation where she needed to make the final shot to win a game. Sue's shot at the buzzer was one of the most exciting games I have ever been in attendance for, in some way's I miss those day's when the outcome was not guaranteed.

 

[dbmill]

Bird had a great three years at UConn, no question about it. But in my mind from her sophomore year on, Jefferson's UConn career has been better.

 

[PhillyCoach]

Bird was a super PG for UConn. She had and still has the classic PG game--Collegiately speaking, she was one of the best PG's of all time (I hesitate to say the best ever.) However, MO is the epitome of the new college PG. No one is quicker, no is a better defender, & no one is a better 3 pt % shooter. Mo can do multiple things that Bird cannot. MO can recognize a lane and get to the hoop in a blink of an eye---and she makes such a high percentage. She can face guard, harass, and stop almost anyone defensively. Bird cannot match that.
Conversely, MO can match whatever Bird can do. Name a skill and MO can do it too or do it better--as stated above. One poster said Bird was clutch. Absolutely! Ask Stewie who was clutch last year in the NC game. That's why Stewie was crying because she knew in her heart that MO was the MVP. MO produced when necessary.
This debate is one of the treats of the BY. I appreciate the quality & depth of BB knowledge I read here. But on this one, speaking only of the college career---MO wins! If it's still too close for some, then use NC as the tie-breaker. It's still MO.

 

[bmayuc]

Not only do I think MoJeff is better than Bird... I think she's the best player ON THIS TEAM.

I know Stewart is All-World 2x POY, 3x FFMVP, but Jefferson makes it all go for this team, and should have won the last FFMVP. She is truly an ascendant and superior talent.

 

[UcMiami]

In a separate thread CocoHusky brought up a quote of Geno's from last night that I think is valid here as well:
"Moriah is the only player that can control the pace of play for both teams."
I think Bird can legitimately be considered the best 'floor general' Uconn has ever had, though Moriah is certainly in that discussion and it can be simply personal preference of the observer as to who gets that vote. But that is really used to describe the player that organizes the offense and control offensive flow and pace, calling plays and initiating offense.

The statistical numbers for both Moriah and Sue are very impressive - I think Moriah has an edge there, but Sue is certainly in the conversation. Interestingly, Sue is both penalized and helped by having only played eight games as a freshman. Her total career numbers are hurt because she ended up playing only 118 games at Uconn and Moriah just played her 119th game last night. But having only 8 freshman games helped Sue statistically because her freshman season likely would have been her worst statistically as it was clearly Moriah's worst. So those 8 games represent a much smaller portion of Sue's total statistics per game than Moriah's 39 games as a freshman (2 starts.) An example - Moriah's PPG sit at 9.0 because she scored only 4.7 per game as a freshman in 39 games - Sue's 11.7 PPG is aided by the fact that her freshman average of 5.1 is weighted by only the 8 games she played and represents a much smaller part of the 118 total games. In fact, Moriah's scoring average as a Sophomore and Junior match up with Sue - Moriah 10.0 and 12.4, Sue 10.9 and 10.9.

What I think does set Moriah apart from Sue is what Geno is driving at in the above quote - because of Moriah's boundless energy and incredible defensive pressure, speed, and quickness - she has the ability to control the offensive pace and flow of the other teams offense as well as her own team's. I am not sure we have ever seen a player who can do that at both ends at Uconn, or in WBB in the way that Moriah does.

 

[pppggg]

Yeah how do you factor in the "clutch" factor when Moriah never gets to play any competitive games? ??

Geno on 3 pointers by Bird. " When it had to count, she never missed."
Is there anything more clutch than that?

 

[trb123]

My starting five is (are? Please correct) Charles, Stewart, Moore, Taurasi, Jefferson.

I have a problem with the bench.

Bird, Dolson, Hartley, Cash.

Who is the 5th?

Ralph? Tuck?

Due apologies to Lobo and Sales.

 

[Kibitzer]

I reluctantly concede the points made so often and so persuasively that Moriah's demonstrated skills, records established and overall achievements at UConn (especially if she collects a fourth NC ring) transcend those of Sue Bird. HOWEVER. . .

There are some people who are simply irreplaceable, seemingly larger than life in their field. The sports world has its share (Babe Ruth, Cy Young, Vince Lombardi, Muhammad Ali, to name a few who leap to mind). In other endeavors, consider Thomas Edison. Henry Ford, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Mark Twain, Martin Luther King, Clarence Darrow or Norman Borlaug(!) -- and many others (including Ludwig, Wolfgang, etc.).

So it is with Sue Bird. She is so revered by UConn fans like me that I can't bear the thought of her being somehow "replaceable" (like a dead car battery), so I abstain from voting.

 

[TheGOAT23]

Mo definitely displaces Sue. Her defensive capabilities alone is a game changer. My 5 starters are Tina, Stewie, Moore, Taurasi & Mo.

I'm getting a migraine thinking about the bench.