Wichita State Investigating Head Coach and Others

[Wbbfan1]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article19355382.html

 

[BroadwayVa]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article19355382.html

From the way I read this--it's time for the coach to go. Real or perceived issues at this point do not matter--the cloud of issues remain.
As far as players separated by race---sometimes it's just easier to be with your "kind" i.e. French, Irish, English, --but the coach MUST create an atmosphere of inclusion--it's about US--not THEM or no TEAM will ever evolve. Sometimes the US is the players against Coach--an old method of creating "togetherness" , now the Coach has to be the leader of US.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Does sound ugly, and likely it could be not a fine line but a very broad line and even a chasm between what is happening with Adams and what has happened over the years with Geno. That line includes the huge respect verging on love from at least his former players, though they have all said there were a lot of tough times when he was asking them to dig down deeper than they thought possible. But again, his methods are ones of inclusion and cohesion, while Adams seems to be just splitting everything apart.

However, in reading the article, the mention of the "hour-long" suicide drills has echoes of some of Geno's practices of driving the players to their limit to make them tough for any future challenge. With Adams though it is simply described as punitive rather than constructive, which is probably how she frames her actions. Also, five players quit for Adams' first season at Wichita State (and now you have a group of starters quitting in a repeat exodus), and a five also quit after Geno's first season at UConn, though they were mainly reserves who did not buy into the new Husky coach and his program.

Much of the issues with any coach can be simply communicating what you want done and why you are insisting that players do things in a certain way. With Adams, that ability seems pretty lacking.

 

[Zorro]

Ain't lookin good.

 

[UcMiami]

All group dynamics are really difficult for outsiders to fathom, and in an especially competitive arena which any sport is, demands, emotions and exhaustion all play a part. It isn't necessarily the coach at fault even when groups of players complain, as bitching sessions which are a way for players to release tension, can also tilt toward conspiracy - a fine line.

That is not meant as an apology for any coach, just a statement of fact. The situation at Holy Cross ended up with the coach staying on implying 'conspiracy' as opposed to other situations where the coach was found culpable.

Whatever has and is happening at Wichita St. is clearly unhealthy and with the repeat occurrence with a completely new cast of players would seem to suggest a coaching problem.

 

[BRS24]

Does sound ugly, and likely it could be not a fine line but a very broad line and even a chasm between what is happening with Adams and what has happened over the years with Geno. That line includes the huge respect verging on love from at least his former players, though they have all said there were a lot of tough times when he was asking them to dig down deeper than they thought possible. But again, his methods are ones of inclusion and cohesion, while Adams seems to be just splitting everything apart.

However, in reading the article, the mention of the "hour-long" suicide drills has echoes of some of Geno's practices of driving the players to their limit to make them tough for any future challenge. With Adams though it is simply described as punitive rather than constructive, which is probably how she frames her actions. Also, five players quit for Adams' first season at Wichita State (and now you have a group of starters quitting in a repeat exodus), and a five also quit after Geno's first season at UConn, though they were mainly reserves who did not buy into the new Husky coach and his program.

Much of the issues with any coach can be simply communicating what you want done and why you are insisting that players do things in a certain way. With Adams, that ability seems pretty lacking.

I think there's a difference with what Geno asks the players to do. In the Geno Experiment videos, he had Stewie perform the same defensive drill over and over. He wanted her to get it right, and until she showed that she understood, he was gonna say "again". This is proactive and skill based, rather than an hour of suicide drills, which makes you tired and want to puke, and doesn't do anything for your hoop skills, nor your confidence.

 

[Aluminny69]

Hopefully, I get this right, please feel free to correct me if I misremember. UConn Men's Soccer Coach Ray Reid took over a faltering program from legend Joe Marrone, in 1997. Reid inherited something like 15 scholarship players (don't know the exact number), who had a poor work ethic. Reid did not kick them off the team, but worked the team so hard that all the scholarship players eventually quit. Reid made the NCAA Tourney the following year, and won the Championship in 2000. The rest, as they say, is history.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Hopefully, I get this right, please feel free to correct me if I misremember. UConn Men's Soccer Coach Ray Reid took over a faltering program from legend Joe Marrone, in 1997. Reid inherited something like 15 scholarship players (don't know the exact number), who had a poor work ethic. Reid did not kick them off the team, but worked the team so hard that all the scholarship players eventually quit. Reid made the NCAA Tourney the following year, and won the Championship in 2000. The rest, as they say, is history.

Pretty much. UConn's success with an NC in 1981 and continuing strong play in the 1980s under Marrone had definitely faltered by the time Reid took over, and a house-cleaning and fairly quick NC in 2000 (UConn's 3rd, the first through a coaches poll in 1948) under Reid was followed by a very popular presence but just not that special magic that it takes to pick up more NCs.

Geno had both a harder and easier job when he started since he got to build things no-questions-asked since the previous program was not a much of a level, whereas Reid had some history to follow even though recent results indicated that the program wasn't on the best track. In the case of Adams at Wichita State, it sounds like we have a coach who just decides that she has bought into some mythology that chain gang workers can win games. Doesn't usually work that way unless your goal is just to bust rocks.

 

[JavaMan]

From a mother's perspective: The WSU women's basketball allegations

Former Wichita State players and parents are speaking out about the allegations that Coach Jody Adams and her coaching staff have mentally and verbally abused players in the program. The mother of a former player that transferred said these allegations are nothing new.

“I don’t know any of the girls that I know that have come out of that program with positive things to say about it or had a positive experience at Wichita State.”

“She had friends she played with in AAU that went on to bigger programs and played at UCONN, Nebraska, KU and Alabama,” she said. “So in talking with them we realized that this is not the way it should be.”

[LINK] to article and video.

 

[cabbie191]

I'm not certain I know how to phrase my thoughts properly so bear with. It seems to me that the types of players premier programs like UConn, ND, Tenn, Baylor, etc., wind up with are going to be fundamentally different than players who go to lesser achieving schools. The differences will be in their physical skills as well as their mental toughness. (Though this isn't to say athletes with lesser physical skills can't also have great mental resiliency.)

This is not to excuse by any means what Adams did (the public humiliation of the push-ups at halftime informs my opinion that she should be fired) but I wonder to what extent this difference in the student's attitudes and outlooks plays out when you get a demanding (sadistic?) coach. I wonder how our Husky players would have reacted had they been on the Wichita State team and been subjected to Adam's style - would they have toughed it out or would they have reacted the same way?

I have no clue what the answer would be but incidents like this make me appreciate Geno, CD, Shea & Marisa all that much more.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Former Player Speaks out - Video http://www.swishappeal.com/2015/4/2...ta-state-player-speaks-out-against-jody-adams

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I'm not certain I know how to phrase my thoughts properly so bear with. It seems to me that the types of players premier programs like UConn, ND, Tenn, Baylor, etc., wind up with are going to be fundamentally different than players who go to lesser achieving schools. The differences will be in their physical skills as well as their mental toughness. (Though this isn't to say athletes with lesser physical skills can't also have great mental resiliency.)

This is not to excuse by any means what Adams did (the public humiliation of the push-ups at halftime informs my opinion that she should be fired) but I wonder to what extent this difference in the student's attitudes and outlooks plays out when you get a demanding (sadistic?) coach. I wonder how our Husky players would have reacted had they been on the Wichita State team and been subjected to Adam's style - would they have toughed it out or would they have reacted the same way?

I have no clue what the answer would be but incidents like this make me appreciate Geno, CD, Shea & Marisa all that much more.

I think you are somewhat off-base here. I don't think you can show that players that go to lesser schools are, per ce, any less motivated or less mentally tough.

I think intelligent players can tell the difference between toughness and abuse. If you are being "improved" by the process you are going to be more accepting, and I think the UConn players clearly know they are being "improved" by their experience, and they also know where the prize is. Those who can't deal, leave - even UConn.

These reports are claiming more abuse than constructive toughness. There is a difference between a demanding and sadistic coach in spite of your potentially equating them. The UConn players would be fine with a demanding coach at WS, and most likely out of there with a sadistic one.

Where I do think you might not be completely off-base is that - in a lesser performing program - unhappy players might abandon ship more willingly. Not a Wichita State that was generally successful, but a team that is highly under .500 with no improvement in sight and you are unhappy. For example, Stanford Softball lost 3 seniors this week. They had a controversial coaching change before the season and they currently have NO pitchers due to injuries. Using position players to pitch resulting in only 1 PAC win with the season winding down. I'm not saying that players wouldn't have left if the team was in the top of the PAC - but it isn't surprising they saw little reason to stay and be unhappy at this point. (Arizona run ruled them 11-0 last night and Arizona pitching isn't great either).

 

[UcMiami]

Cabbie I like your post, and understand your reaction Knightsbridge.
I do think Geno and CD had a mass exodus in year two with players realizing this was not for them, and at least one player transferred more recently because she was unwilling to work as hard as the coaches wanted her to. She ended up in the tough SEC and was happy and successful in what one assumes was a less demanding environment. So yes, there are different expectations of commitment and effort at different programs, with Uconn probably the top of the heap. And it isn't for everyone, and most freshman talk about the misery they experience at Uconn as they learn.
I do think the push-ups at halftime is really bad, but 'being called out' in front of teammates is fairly common at Uconn - and occasionally harsh statements are made in news conferences as well.

You often see the dichotomy of reaction play out in these coaching 'situations' that come up - for every negative experience there is often a former or current player who is a staunch defender of the coach and not simply in the 'playing favorites' type of situation.

I agree Knightsbridge that at Uconn there is a method to the madness and players are aware of the goals and that they are experiencing part of a process that will elevate themselves and their game and the team even when misery sometime predominates. Also, the way the coaching staff works in concert at Uconn is design to mitigate the harshness - I believe it was CD who talked about the good cop/bad cop routine she and Geno fall into - when she is riding a player in practice, Geno is identifying and commenting on the positives and visa versa - and it carries down to the assistants as well. A player never feels that whole coaching staff is on her case at the same time so there is a safe haven for them to run to when it gets too much. Good team chemistry and success on the court is a big mitigation as well.

Finally - there is no question that we live in a time of over-sensitivity to self esteem that has permeated early athletics. 'Everybody gets a trophy and keeping score is a bad idea' and participation is more important than proficiency. Add in as Bill Maher expounded on in new rules the over protective, over present 'parenting' and at least some of that bleeds through to lower levels of collegiate athletes.

[Pet peeve - why does everyone attending a children's birthday party now expect to go home with presents?!]

 

[cabbie191]

I think you are somewhat off-base here. I don't think you can show that players that go to lesser schools are, per ce, any less motivated or less mentally tough.

I think intelligent players can tell the difference between toughness and abuse. If you are being "improved" by the process you are going to be more accepting, and I think the UConn players clearly know they are being "improved" by their experience, and they also know where the prize is. Those who can't deal, leave - even UConn.

Where I do think you might not be completely off-base is that - in a lesser performing program - unhappy players might abandon ship more willingly. Not a Wichita State that was generally successful, but a team that is highly under .500 with no improvement in sight and you are unhappy. For example, Stanford Softball lost 3 seniors this week. They had a controversial coaching change before the season and they currently have NO pitchers due to injuries. Using position players to pitch resulting in only 1 PAC win with the season winding down. I'm not saying that players wouldn't have left if the team was in the top of the PAC - but it isn't surprising they saw little reason to stay and be unhappy at this point. (Arizona run ruled them 11-0 last night and Arizona pitching isn't great either).

I agree with what your say about players being able to tell the difference between toughness and abuse, and also what you say in your last paragraph.

As to what you wrote at the start of your response, please reread what I wrote in the ( ) in the first part of my post - I think it agrees with what you are stating. I didn't say it outright but I think I did imply I thought Adams was abusive and sadistic and that is why she should be fired.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Reading various Wichita State articles it seems the Harsh Tretment/Verbal Abuse happened both on the court and off the court. According to the former player, in her case rarely were there words of encouragement off the court or that she did well in practices. Apparently players were treated the same both on and off the court. With the bad, there has to be some good. Apparently players at Wichita State, didn't think there was enough good.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I agree with what your say about players being able to tell the difference between toughness and abuse, and also what you say in your last paragraph.

As to what you wrote at the start of your response, please reread what I wrote in the ( ) in the first part of my post - I think it agrees with what you are stating. I didn't say it outright but I think I did imply I thought Adams was abusive and sadistic and that is why she should be fired.

I actually thought that what you wrote in () almost negated what you wrote immediately before it. I'm either arguing or agreeing (whichever it is) that I don't believe it is necessarily mental toughness that separates recruits at different levels. Actually, I think it is indefinable, since you might very well know the elite players who are known for a particular degree of reported mental toughness, but we'll never hear about the lower level player who spent just as many hours applying herself (one sign of mental toughness) just to get to the level she is at.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Article where former players support Jody Adams: http://www.hoopfeed.com/content/201...allies-come-forward-to-support-coach/#letters


There's also an article where Eric Sexton stated they weren't award of some of the recent allegations. IMHO the excuse we Didn't Know is too frequently used and that's supposed to excuse them of their responsibility. In many cases its not, they should have known and because they didn't they weren't doing their job.

 

[UcMiami]

I actually thought that what you wrote in () almost negated what you wrote immediately before it. I'm either arguing or agreeing (whichever it is) that I don't believe it is necessarily mental toughness that separates recruits at different levels. Actually, I think it is indefinable, since you might very well know the elite players who are known for a particular degree of reported mental toughness, but we'll never hear about the lower level player who spent just as many hours applying herself (one sign of mental toughness) just to get to the level she is at.

All you have to look at is the walk-ons at Uconn and there have been a few over the years - they do not stick with the team if they do not put out the same effort as the scholarship players. The difference is, the coaching staff has minimal expectations beyond effort from them, so they do not 'ride' them the same way they 'ride' Stewart - demanding not just effort, but excellence, and constant improvement. I do think Stewart's situation requires more 'mental toughness' than say TLaw's, or at least different kinds.

 

[JavaMan]

WICHITA, Kan. - We are getting a clearer picture of the allegations against Wichita State University women's basketball coach Jody Adams.

Monday evening, we learned Adams did not violate any NCAA compliance rules, including going over the allotted practice hours for the team.

While Adams is not accused of violating NCAA compliance rules, some players and parents say Adams' style is mentally abusive.

Allegations against Adams involve excess practicing, making players carry boulders until their arms bled, scare tactics and mental and verbal abuse, including threatening to throw balls at the players' heads.

One player says Adams went so far as to take away a teammate's car for a month.

[LINK] to article (with videos) titled: Jody Adams did not violate NCAA compliance rules