Why top recruits do not come to BigEast (except Uconn)?

[JoePgh]

$ drives collegiate sports and the $ is concentrated these days in the now P4 conferences due to Football, which funds all other sports except MBB. $ gets coaches and facilities. It also gets recruiting budgets. Outside of UConn, none of the BE WBB teams spend $ on the sport at a level needed to be highly competitive these days, because they don’t have access to the revenue of the P4 conferences. Follow the $.

The SEC and B1G now distribute over $50 million annually to each member school and those numbers are getting ready to skyrocket with new TV deals. The ACC pays out a little over $30 million and is considered “poor” in P4 standards, it’s why FSU is trying to break away. It’s also why UCLA, USC, UW and Oregon jumped to the B1G.

You ask why most BE teams cannot recruit top players, look at the revenue they receive from the BE annually, less than $6 million. This isn’t going to get better for the BE, it’s going to get worse, and soon.

Money is far from the decisive factor:

1. All or nearly all of the money you mentioned will be poured into football, since that is where the return on investment is. I doubt that Power 5 women's basketball will see more than a sliver of new money unless Title IX litigation is successful.

2. Look at Big East men's basketball, which is as competitive and high-quality as any P5 conference. The secret is that most of the Big East schools do not have serious football programs, so for them, the return on investment is in men's basketball. That's why coaches like Shaka Smart, Rick Pitino, and Dan Hurley are attracted to coaching jobs in the Big East.

 

[boscolino]

$ drives collegiate sports and the $ is concentrated these days in the now P4 conferences due to Football, which funds all other sports except MBB. $ gets coaches and facilities. It also gets recruiting budgets. Outside of UConn, none of the BE WBB teams spend $ on the sport at a level needed to be highly competitive these days, because they don’t have access to the revenue of the P4 conferences. Follow the $.

The SEC and B1G now distribute over $50 million annually to each member school and those numbers are getting ready to skyrocket with new TV deals. The ACC pays out a little over $30 million and is considered “poor” in P4 standards, it’s why FSU is trying to break away. It’s also why UCLA, USC, UW and Oregon jumped to the B1G.

You ask why most BE teams cannot recruit top players, look at the revenue they receive from the BE annually, less than $6 million. This isn’t going to get better for the BE, it’s going to get worse, and soon.

Why did Rebecca Lobo, Jen Rizzotti, and Nykesha Sales want to play for UConn in the early 1990's when its practice facilities were horrible and the Big East of that era was weak? Yes, they were local talent, but they certainly could have gone to a bigger-named school.

Likewise, if the 1990 version of Geno were a young and unheralded coach at Marquette in the last few years, he would have recruited KK Arnold and Allie Ziebell from Wisconsin high schools, and he would have dissuaded Emily LaChapell from transferring. At that point, and with the players that actually are on the Marquette roster, he could have been a contender -- to quote Marlon Brando.

A better recruiter than Doug Bruno would have recruited and retained more Chicago talent than Doug has. A more dynamic personality than Jim Flanery could have recruited Caitlin Clark and had the success that Iowa is now having. But it takes a unique individual with a rare combination of ambition, salesmanship, charisma, and exceptional basketball X-and-O knowledge to have that success.

Hoping to find a new Geno.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Money is far from the decisive factor:

1. All or nearly all of the money you mentioned will be poured into football, since that is where the return on investment is. I doubt that Power 5 women's basketball will see more than a sliver of new money unless Title IX litigation is successful.

2. Look at Big East men's basketball, which is as competitive and high-quality as any P5 conference. The secret is that most of the Big East schools do not have serious football programs, so for them, the return on investment is in men's basketball. That's why coaches like Shaka Smart, Rick Pitino, and Dan Hurley are attracted to coaching jobs in the Big East.

The money benefits the athletic department as a whole, regardless of how the media, NCAA funds, etc were earned. Money may not be a decisive factor but it is a big one when you compare the athletic department budgets between the Big East and other conferences, even if you take football expense (but not income) out of it.

To your point in the other post about Rebecca etc. going to UConn, it was a different day and age.

I'll share something that gave me huge insight - one of the Arizona women's basketball players had a $500,000 "NIL equivalent" when she was in high school. Local money. The current structure of sports is really scary out there.

 

[Longtime fan]

$ drives collegiate sports and the $ is concentrated these days in the now P4 conferences due to Football, which funds all other sports except MBB. $ gets coaches and facilities. It also gets recruiting budgets. Outside of UConn, none of the BE WBB teams spend $ on the sport at a level needed to be highly competitive these days, because they don’t have access to the revenue of the P4 conferences. Follow the $.

The SEC and B1G now distribute over $50 million annually to each member school and those numbers are getting ready to skyrocket with new TV deals. The ACC pays out a little over $30 million and is considered “poor” in P4 standards, it’s why FSU is trying to break away. It’s also why UCLA, USC, UW and Oregon jumped to the B1G.

You ask why most BE teams cannot recruit top players, look at the revenue they receive from the BE annually, less than $6 million. This isn’t going to get better for the BE, it’s going to get worse, and soon.

The top recruits want to win the national championship. Until someone (other than UCONN) does that from the BE conference, none of the top recruits will ever want to be in it. Morrow is a great player, and may have been a top recruit ( certainly she was locally known ). But she bolted as soon as she saw that she had no prayer of winning where she was.

 

[boscolino]

It is like a snake biting its own tail

 

[Darwin]

Money is far from the decisive factor:

1. All or nearly all of the money you mentioned will be poured into football, since that is where the return on investment is. I doubt that Power 5 women's basketball will see more than a sliver of new money unless Title IX litigation is successful.

2. Look at Big East men's basketball, which is as competitive and high-quality as any P5 conference. The secret is that most of the Big East schools do not have serious football programs, so for them, the return on investment is in men's basketball. That's why coaches like Shaka Smart, Rick Pitino, and Dan Hurley are attracted to coaching jobs in the Big East.

Men’s basketball is different as I pointed out initially. Other than FB, MBB is the only sport that yields a profit, so it is on different financial ground than non revenue sports are.

As for your incorrect statement that the schools from the P4 conferences are putting all of their yearly conference dollars back into FB, check out the AD budgets for each sport at the B1G, SEC, ACC and B12 schools compared to a conference like the BE. It’s not a level playing field and WBB is benefiting in those conferences at the schools that invest in the sport, which admittedly not every school will do so, but they will have the option to with the $ they receive.

 

[Skeets]

Recruits come for Geno and the great success prior to 2016. Without both of those and adding the NIL advantage SEC schools have, it's going to be a tough sell for recruits in the future.

Well one thing's for sure, no recruit goes to Storrs for the tropical weather or the rip roaring wild night life. As far as the rest of the BE, the obvious focus is on men's hoops. It seems like women's basketball exists because the schools have nothing better to do.

 

[oldhusky]

The top recruits want to win the national championship. Until someone (other than UCONN) does that from the BE conference, none of the top recruits will ever want to be in it. Morrow is a great player, and may have been a top recruit ( certainly she was locally known ). But she bolted as soon as she saw that she had no prayer of winning where she was.

I agree that top recruits don't usually consider other Big East schools, but feel they bolt for a little different reasons. I think in general non Uconn Big East stars tend to be players that were not very highly rated. I don't think Morrow was, or Park Lane for example. Rather I think the stars on other Big East teams are more likely to be players that were overlooked by Power 5 conferences that then turned out to be much better than their HS reputation.

Then when they have shown they were Power 5 level players, those teams can come after them using the new lure of NIL dollars. In the past if you recruited an overachiever you might keep them for four years. Now if you saw more in that player than the ratings indicated, and/or you train or coach them up into much better players, you can easily lose them.

Many of the reasons mentioned in this thread are legitimate rational explanations. The NIL issue, however, is a brand new one that adversely affects the Big East other members, with players like Morrow and Park Lane being exhibit A for a situation that is likely to drain top talent from the conference on an ongoing basis IMO.

 

[cancontent]

Most of the big east schools are smaller (i think) and are catholic schools. I'm sure that deters a lot. I don't think academics would be too big to most top recruits because if we're honest, they're majoring in basketball. I'm sure the big east values academics just as much as other schools other than those with a name for it like Stanford or Ivy League schools. Weather? If the appeal is enough, they will ignore that - look at Ice and KLS, they came from CA to CT.

Don't believe that's a fair assumption. They still need an education to fall back on. As we've been seeing lately, you can be a top draft pick and still not make the W. And eventually the basketball stops dribbling and they'll need to have a career. And we're seeing top players choose schools with excellent academics (e.g. USC, UCLA, Stanford, Duke, etc.).

 

[boscolino]

Is there any chance to reverse this trend? It will be in the interest in WBB to get more school involved at high level,.But perhaps I have not he real feeling of the situation. Thanks to everybody who expressed their opinion.

 

[cancontent]

If not a UCONN players (Sheah, Carla, Jamelle), my favorite would be Jeff Walz, he surely has a science of recruiting and has some good transfer portals decisions. But can he keep recruits to stay 4 years ?

Yes based on what I've noticed. He had 3 players in his 2019 class, and only Ramani Parker transferred out. Konno graduated last year and Green is using her COVID year this season. He had four in his 2020 class and two are still with the team.

Sure his 2021 class, excluding Mobley who enrolled early, didn't pan out but the impression that everyone transfers out may not be what we think it is. Technically, the same could be said about most programs, including UConn, especially with their their 2020 and 2021 classes.

 

[cancontent]

Down the road UConn will be in trouble, all because, at some point, they missed getting into a power conference. Not hard to imagine the Big East being a conference made up of mid-major women's teams. Some are already. After Geno, will they be able to recruit as they have been?

Is it really their fault though when you think of what the old Big East used to be? Sometimes I think the situation is similar to what's recently happened with the PAC12. The conference used to be awesome for both men's and women's basketball, but the desire to bring football into the fold was its undoing.

And regarding the ability to recruit question, Geno didn't seem to have a problem when UConn was part of the AAC. I don't see how the current version of the Big East is any different.

 

[Rowdy831]

Same reasons why the top dogs seem to choose SC over UConn. Dawn already has commitment's from # 2 and#12… and she will most likely get #1, too..

Okay, care to elaborate on those reasons??

 

[Rowdy831]

Any conference that wants new shiny objects need to have a few really good football teams that can go to the playoffs or bowls and bring big money back for the conference. For UConn they need to get their football program up to mediocre so they can attract another conference with their basketball and then move.

 

[maple]

@boscolino

All the other BE schools would have to put real energy and money into WBB and be willing to support it and showcase it as much as MBB, for starters. It could be done but those in charge of running those schools they don't see it as a priority, I guess. Which is a shame.

It starts with hiring good coaches who know how to recruit and can convince players to come play here. NIL is important, of course, but the great players will get recognition no matter where they are and will get deals that way. If CC came to play for like, Villanova or Creighton (for example), and performed just as well, she'd still be getting attention and NIL. She would basically be putting that school on the map.

But you have to be able to sell that to players. And not all players want that, some just want to be on a national powerhouse along with other superstars. So you have to find the players who do want that.

 

[maple]

And regarding the ability to recruit question, Geno didn't seem to have a problem when UConn was part of the AAC. I don't see how the current version of the Big East is any different.

The Big East is definitely a step up from the AAC, in part because the BE has established men's programs. People are going to recognize the names of BE schools more often than the ones in the former/current AAC.

 

[Conndog]

Even if competition in BE conference isn’t as strong as in other conferences, doesn’t UConn make up for it with their out of conference schedule? And then there is likelihood of NCAA tournament success too and further competition there against the best times.

 

[Cuango]

Same reasons why the top dogs seem to choose SC over UConn. Dawn already has commitment's from # 2 and#12… and she will most likely get #1, too..

I’m not sure why Strong would go to a school that just signed the #2 player who plays the same position as her? Not to mention the plethora of other players in line for the same position!

 

[UConniki]

Players go to UConn because it prepares players for a pro career better than any other school. The midmajors that don't fund their team or provide top level facilities don't sign top talent. College basketball is the end of the road for all but the best and those few still come to UConn and they are ones who win titles. UConn continues to sign them.
I've been reading predictions of the demise of UConn basketball for over 20 years. UConn runs fairly modest deficits for wbb and the taxpayers love the basketball teams. Depending on who succeeds Geno, the team will continue to attract the very best.

We can only hope that you’re right because I’m not as confident.

 

[cancontent]

I’m not sure why Strong would go to a school that just signed the #2 player who plays the same position as her? Not to mention the plethora of other players in line for the same position!

How would that be any different with UConn, considering their situation and players having redshirt seasons available?

 

[Big Fan]

You cannot disregard that the league is made up of smaller Catholic Universities which can't compete with larger schools especially larger state institutions. They are not for everybody. With NIL and the transfer portal you are going to see an even larger # transferring out.

 

[Zonepress]

How did Boeheim recruit to Syracuse (middle of nowhere NY State), while in the Old Big East (better than now, but still smaller, less classic powerhouse teams, though they did have good football schools including Syracuse) and while playing a 2-3 zone all the time?

(see: Jim Boeheim on Syracuse’s 2-3 zone: ‘We don’t have another defense’)

They paid the players

 

[Alydar]

You cannot disregard that the league is made up of smaller Catholic Universities which can't compete with larger schools especially larger state institutions. They are not for everybody. With NIL and the transfer portal you are going to see an even larger # transferring out.

These "small Catholic Universities" manage to hire high-priced coaching for their mens basketball programs. The plain fact is that wcbb is an afterthought at most universities.

 

[Steelerone]

I think that the saddest thing is that we havn't even begun to see the impact of the "NIL" ruling. This is the most cannibalistic thing to ever have impacted college s ports. RIght now the main focus is on the individual getting the money, What is going to happen in a few years when the grunts in football and basketball start to realize their self worth and demand equal pay. I truly believe that many schools are going to just start dropping their major sports. You can only get so much milk from a cow and when the cost of feeding that cow exceeds your profit you it's goodbye Betsy. And once the players unionize and start bargaining I guarantee you that the first thing the school will want is to revoke the scholarship for any player not producing.

 

[Longtime fan]

I think that the saddest thing is that we havn't even begun to see the impact of the "NIL" ruling. This is the most cannibalistic thing to ever have impacted college s ports. RIght now the main focus is on the individual getting the money, What is going to happen in a few years when the grunts in football and basketball start to realize their self worth and demand equal pay. I truly believe that many schools are going to just start dropping their major sports. You can only get so much milk from a cow and when the cost of feeding that cow exceeds your profit you it's goodbye Betsy. And once the players unionize and start bargaining I guarantee you that the first thing the school will want is to revoke the scholarship for any player not producing.

You make some cogent points. A possible offset is that many schools derive a good amount of their revenue from sports. Not just ticket sales and TV/radio rights, but lines of clothing and alumni good fellowship ( contributions because they remember a great football year, etc.). The major come to ( fill in the blank ) moment will arrive when, on balance, gross revenues can no longer fund expenses. Too many universities are over-spending on" building and grounds," as well as administration. It is becoming a debt based environment, and that cannot sustain itself.