Why the ACC took Louisville

[buddy]

I think there was a dual vision. One was to limit the power and perception of the Big East, the second was to gain an association with Notre Dame.

Getting BC, Miami, and the originally targeted Syracuse were steps towards both those goals. Politics intervened and VT came aboard instead. Still forward progress on both fronts.

After a period of consolidation, the Big XII was looking at Pittsburgh with rumors of some kind of talks with ND. The ACC was forced to act, perhaps quicker than desired. They managed to wrangle both Syracuse and Pittsburgh to come aboard, and shortly thereafter that coveted association with ND. These all demonstrated some skill as there was no leaking or foreshadowing that these moves were about to happen. To say there was no vision or skill is missing the obvious.

Rutgers and UCONN did nothing to increase the odds of a ND association. That's why Cuse and Pitt got the nod at that time.

Clearly losing Maryland was a blow. Maybe they could have accommodated them somehow. But all indications were that they were gone no matter what.

So, the selection of a replacement for Maryland was a reactionary move. The divisions had to be balanced. UCONN would have been a fine choice. But a few things worked against the Huskies...

- There was no thought of an ACC Network as there was no grant of rights, thus negating a potentially major positive for UCONN.

- The football centric schools were feeling like they where getting roughshod as none of the recent expansion moves had really helped football. So, they bowed up their backs and pushed for their preferred candidate.

- With all the talk of cultural and institution fit, no one ever mentions that Louisville fits with a predominately Southern conference better than UCONN. This is especially true for the Southern football schools.

So, before the yelling starts, I would just like to say that I support UCONN joining the ACC.

The ACC actually wanted Syracuse and UConn, not Pitt, but took Pitt because of BC's objection to UConn

 

[ramses 2.0]

Its been stated in a few places which those more knowledgeable than me can dig up that it was the B1G or the'd prefer to sta in the AAC...common knowledge RU had zero interest in the ACC...Im not sure of the reasons?

I'm sure Rutgers preferred the B1G but they were in no postion to turn any conference upgrade. Every team from the former Big East/AAC lobbied to be included in ACC & would have taken a invite period.

 

[ramses 2.0]

It's UOTE="buddy, post: 1053532, member: 3489"]The ACC actually wanted Syracuse and UConn, not Pitt, but took Pitt because of BC's objection to UConn[/QUOTE]
BC is one of several schools currently opposed to UConn but that could change over time since it's doubtful that either Louisville or Notre Dame could have been admitted 10 yrs ago

 

[Dooley]

I know there is a lot of animosity over the lawsuit, but the ACC would be incredibly foolish to let UCONN slip through their fingers. I hope that relations, at least on an Administrative level, have been eased between BC and UCONN since BC seems to be UCONN's biggest opponent to membership. The football schools won the last debate with inviting Louisville and rightly so. But what's the worst thing that would happen to the ACC if they invite UCONN? ND decides to never join full-time but keep a part-time football scheduling arrangement? In that case, the ACC could add Cincinnati (good football and hoops) or UCF (for the football schools). Both would add good markets for a potential ACCN...something the conference desperately needs.

We can accuse Swofford of many things but he's made all the right moves in successfully killing off the ACC's biggest eastern competitor conference and elevate his conference firmly into the P5 structure. Now, his conference needs a Network and it needs one badly to compete with the SEC and B1G. I can't imagine Swofford and the ACC Presidents sitting idly around content to make less than half the TV revenue of their SEC and B1G competitors. If they add UCONN and Cincinnati/UCF, they will add 2 good schools that bring in markets (UCF more so than Cincinnati). Then they can continue the part-time partnership with ND in football, keep the B1G out of any more eastward expansion, and lock up every single huge TV market (other than DC) on the eastward seaboard. As a bonus, the presence of UCONN/Cuse/Duke/UNC/ND/Pitt (to a lesser degree) should really entice MSG officials for a hoops conference tourney. I'm positive that if scheduled far enough in advance, the ACC and "Big East" could share the venue.

 

[billybud]

Once I was in an unfamiliar city on business. We had worked late into the evening and a local offered me a ride to the train station. When we got there, there was a huge crowd milling about. He offered to go inside and find out what was going on. He returned to say there were no train arriving or departing. Seems there had been a fire on a stopped train but that wasn't the real problem. Seems some poor fellow had panicked at the thought of being incinerated and leapt off the train only to be killed by another train passing through.

My point? You're either lying about your B1G "insiders" or you need to look up the definition of skeptic and try to incorporate it into your everyday life cause what you said either didn't happen or somebody was pulling your leg. People who panic don't typically lurch into something that has all the hallmarks of a well thought out strategy. Picking up a moribund Rutgers and seducing a bankrupt Maryland with cash at a time when the B1G could have proceeded indefinitely as a 12 team conference makes all the sense in the world if Delany's objective had been exactly what he said it was: the northeast. The strategy was NYC/DC; the tactic was Rutgers/Md. Delany was merely waiting for the optimum moment to act. I realize you might be unfamiliar with such common business methods, Billy, because you're used to a commissioner who's, well, an idiot.

How about fro the BTN staff writer's article?

"There sat the Big Ten, quiet amid the chaos. Finally, Delany had to act. The tipping point: The ACC’s move into the Big Ten’s geographic region. “At that point, there was more risk to not do anything,” said Delany. “It was worth the risk to change. To not change with other leagues coming into our areas … “ Enter Rutgers and Maryland. "

How about the Wisconsin AD?

"Speaking Friday to Wisconsin's athletic board, Alvarez said the Big Ten's recent additions of Maryland and Rutgers were motivated in part by the concern of losing Penn State to another conference. Alvarez didn't specify which league, but everyone knows it's the ACC.

From the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:
"Jim [Delany] felt that someday, if we didn’t have anyone else in that corridor, someday it wouldn't make sense maybe for Penn State to be in our league. That they would go into a league somewhere on the east coast. By doing that, it keeps us in the northeast corridor."

 

[billybud]

The B1G was reacting to the ACC moving into Indiana with Notre Dame, right in the heart of Big Ten country and the possible threat of losing Penn State....

Delaney was worried and hit the button.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

How about fro the BTN staff writer's article?

"There sat the Big Ten, quiet amid the chaos. Finally, Delany had to act. The tipping point: The ACC’s move into the Big Ten’s geographic region. “At that point, there was more risk to not do anything,” said Delany. “It was worth the risk to change. To not change with other leagues coming into our areas … “ Enter Rutgers and Maryland. "

How about the Wisconsin AD?

"Speaking Friday to Wisconsin's athletic board, Alvarez said the Big Ten's recent additions of Maryland and Rutgers were motivated in part by the concern of losing Penn State to another conference. Alvarez didn't specify which league, but everyone knows it's the ACC.

From the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:
"Jim [Delany] felt that someday, if we didn’t have anyone else in that corridor, someday it wouldn't make sense maybe for Penn State to be in our league. That they would go into a league somewhere on the east coast. By doing that, it keeps us in the northeast corridor."

Absolutely none of that sounds like somebody panicking. Sounds like some sort of risk/reward analysis was undertaken, probably had been on-going but I don't know that. As far as the Alvarez quote goes, that sounds like risk amelioration practice, not a serious concern about Penn State bolting.

 

[kyleslamb]

Apparently some folks don't understand the concept of a 'tipping point.'

Some would have you believe that it means a state of panic and solely caused someone to do something. Most rational folks that understand the phrase know it to mean that a variety of factors were considered and that the addition of that scenario was enough to go ahead with the plan that had long been discussed rather than wait any longer. Kind of like when your car gets 120,000 miles on it and you start having to replace new parts and you start looking around for a new one; then one day it breaks down and you finally decide not to wait any longer and get a new car. Was it a panic move? No, it was something you felt necessary for a while, but it was the 'tipping point' that caused you to finally break down and do it.

I was on record many months before Notre Dame's announcement that the Big Ten was very interested in adding Maryland and Rutgers. It wasn't a state secret. They had already long studied the possibility and felt it was worth it financially to add both. The move, when it was made, was absolutely not a panic but as Registered said above me, a calculated move to be proactive less there be any chance whatsoever they would wind up having to be reactive.

 

[Kolumbo]

Apparently some folks don't understand the concept of a 'tipping point.'

Some would have you believe that it means a state of panic and solely caused someone to do something. Most rational folks that understand the phrase know it to mean that a variety of factors were considered and that the addition of that scenario was enough to go ahead with the plan that had long been discussed rather than wait any longer. Kind of like when your car gets 120,000 miles on it and you start having to replace new parts and you start looking around for a new one; then one day it breaks down and you finally decide not to wait any longer and get a new car. Was it a panic move? No, it was something you felt necessary for a while, but it was the 'tipping point' that caused you to finally break down and do it.

I was on record many months before Notre Dame's announcement that the Big Ten was very interested in adding Maryland and Rutgers. It wasn't a state secret. They had already long studied the possibility and felt it was worth it financially to add both. The move, when it was made, was absolutely not a panic but as Registered said above me, a calculated move to be proactive less there be any chance whatsoever they would wind up having to be reactive.

Reading these boards is a hoot. Because of our plight, we believe there are layers of strategy and extremely complex algorithms determining how conferences are reacting. In reality, they probably just flip a coin and say, sure, let's invite another school. It's college sports for crying out loud and they are raking in millions regardless.

 

[SouthronCross]

I never said he should have made a case for UConn. I'm saying he should have a vision. I'm saying it's the CEO's job to have a vision, and if he doesn't, he's the wrong man for the job. You want to hitch your wagon to that star, go right ahead.

Well, I'm a glass half full type person. And, I think he's done what some know-it-alls in and out of the media didn't think he'd do 2-3 years ago...keep the ACC together, and, keep it relevant. Thats a pretty major accomplishment.

Is he the best conference commissioner in the NCAA? No. Is he the worst? No.

JMHO...

 

[SouthronCross]

He isn't in a position to have a vision. He was in a position where survival was a good outcome.

I don't think the guy is great - but to date all he has lost is Maryland and no one has tested a GOR.

As long as UNC, FSU, CU, and, UVA all decide to stay, the ACC will be fine going forward.

Any of them leave, and, all bets are off.

 

[SouthronCross]

Its been stated in a few places which those more knowledgeable than me can dig up that it was the B1G or the'd prefer to sta in the AAC...common knowledge RU had zero interest in the ACC...Im not sure of the reasons?

Nicky, I don't ever remember either RU, or, the ACC, ever stating even a passing interest in each other. I could be wrong about that. Its just that I never heard anything from one about the other.

 

[clmssun]

Well, I'm a glass half full type person. And, I think he's done what some know-it-alls in and out of the media didn't think he'd do 2-3 years ago...keep the ACC together, and, keep it relevant. Thats a pretty major accomplishment.

Is he the best conference commissioner in the NCAA? No. Is he the worst? No.

JMHO...

I'd definitely take him over Bowlsby, and I'd probably take him over Scott. But I certainly rank Delany and Slive above him.

 

[SouthronCross]

The ACC actually wanted Syracuse and UConn, not Pitt, but took Pitt because of BC's objection to UConn

BC does not have now, nor has ever had, that kind of stroke within the ACC. And, never will have.

It was FSU-GT-CU-VPI-Miami who objected. BC might've thrown in with them, but, to say that UConn is not in the ACC because of BC is very incorrect.

 

[SouthronCross]

I'd definitely take him over Bowlsby, and I'd probably take him over Scott. But I certainly rank Delany and Slive above him.

A pretty fair assessment.

 

[Seaa Blue]

The B1G was reacting to the ACC moving into Indiana with Notre Dame, right in the heart of Big Ten country .

I live here. We don't care.

 

[clmssun]

I live here. We don't care.

That's what I say about the B1G. "I live here (Ohio). I don't care."

 

[Seaa Blue]

That's what I say about the B1G. "I live here (Ohio). I don't care."

I thought you all did the O H I O thing?

 

[Cleanface]

That's what I say about the B1G. "I live here (Ohio). I don't care."

It makes me smile to know you are surrounded by Buckeye Nuts 24/7...

I used to work for a co. whose corporate office is in CBus, and yesterday and today drove from Louisville > Cleveland and back. I probably saw 846948765398746398475632086 tOSU stickers, plates, flags, etc etc. Enjoy!!!

 

[The Viking]

BC does not have now, nor has ever had, that kind of stroke within the ACC. And, never will have.

It was FSU-GT-CU-VPI-Miami who objected. BC might've thrown in with them, but, to say that UConn is not in the ACC because of BC is very incorrect.

You may want to read this article. I just re-read it and Pitt can burn in hell.

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/mens_basketball/articles/2011/10/09/power_move_by_acc/?page=1

 

[clmssun]

It makes me smile to know you are surrounded by Buckeye Nuts 24/7...

I used to work for a co. whose corporate office is in CBus, and yesterday and today drove from Louisville > Cleveland and back. I probably saw 846948765398746398475632086 tOSU stickers, plates, flags, etc etc. Enjoy!!!

Yes, I very much enjoyed the 2014 Orange Bowl; you?

 

[buddy]

You may want to read this article. I just re-read it and Pitt can burn in hell.

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/mens_basketball/articles/2011/10/09/power_move_by_acc/?page=1

Thanks for validating me. The ACC needed to placate BC to save face for inviting them in the first place.

 

[Cleanface]

Yes, I very much enjoyed the 2014 Orange Bowl; you?

I'll use your line; "I didn't care."

CLEM vs tOSU?? ACC lightweight wannabee heavyweight vs the jackass Buckeyes? Barf.

 

[Cleanface]

I should say this tho, it also makes me smile to know you WERE in that sea of Buckeyes, and were able to ((Hopefully)) rub their noses in the loss vs CLEM.

I do love the B1G, but there are some schools that I can never force myself to pull for. IU, ILL, MSU, tOSU....

Go VT!

 

[Ldandy]

You may want to read this article. I just re-read it and Pitt can burn in hell.

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/mens_basketball/articles/2011/10/09/power_move_by_acc/?page=1

I won't read this article, but yet I agree whole heartedly with your conclusion.

 

[billybud]

I should say this tho, it also makes me smile to know you WERE in that sea of Buckeyes, and were able to ((Hopefully)) rub their noses in the loss vs CLEM.

I do love the B1G, but there are some schools that I can never force myself to pull for. IU, ILL, MSU, tOSU....

Go VT!

Your wish was fulfilled....I also root against Ohio State (learned at my father's knee). My dad's family is from Wisconsin but he was a black sheep Michigan grad. I raised a glass in the old man's memory.

 

[SouthronCross]

You may want to read this article. I just re-read it and Pitt can burn in hell.

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/mens_basketball/articles/2011/10/09/power_move_by_acc/?page=1

BC has ZERO stroke in the ACC. That cannot be reinforced enough.

Had the FSU-CU-GT-VPI-Miami voting bloc wanted UConn, you all would be in the ACC today. BC's position be damned. They are irrelevant, on and off the field. Regardless of what a Boston paper says.

 

[Calamitous]

BC has ZERO stroke in the ACC. That cannot be reinforced enough.

Had the FSU-CU-GT-VPI-Miami voting bloc wanted UConn, you all would be in the ACC today. BC's position be damned. They are irrelevant, on and off the field. Regardless of what a Boston paper says.

Are you insinuating that the "FSU-CU-GT-VPI-Miami voting bloc" wanted UL instead? I think it was more the FSU-CU bloc with Miami going along with it. GT would want UConn because of better academics. VT would want anyone in the world except for Louisville.

 

[Calamitous]

I'd definitely take him over Bowlsby, and I'd probably take him over Scott. But I certainly rank Delany and Slive above him.

Scott has the luxury of geography on his side. Who is the PAC's threat? So I don't know if Scott is a good commissioner or not. Bowlsby has the toughest job of any commissioner IMO. 1) Outside of Texas, all the states in the Big XII have rather small populations and markets, 2) they are surrounded by the SEC, B1G and PAC and 3) he has to deal with Texas.

 

[clmssun]

Scott has the luxury of geography on his side. Who is the PAC's threat? So I don't know if Scott is a good commissioner or not. Bowlsby has the toughest job of any commissioner IMO. 1) Outside of Texas, all the states in the Big XII have rather small populations and markets, 2) they are surrounded by the SEC, B1G and PAC and 3) he has to deal with Texas.

IIRC, Neinas got the Big XII GoR. Bowlsby blew the chance at having Cincy and Louisville flank WVU.

Given the increase in broadcast rights fees across the board, I don't think Scott fully monetized Colorado's addition, perhaps because Utah just isn't worth that much. And there was that possibility of a Pac 14/16 that never came to fruition.

Swofford deserves some credit for holding things together amidst great turmoil. So far, he still has some valuable property in his domain. (He also has WF and BC, of course. )