Why is Ines nailed to the bench? | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Why is Ines nailed to the bench?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
3,564
Reaction Score
17,263
It has nothing to do with her improvement if the other players are better and/or improved more. in which there remains a wide gap.
hoophuskee- - -Ines if used more often DURING the season may have shown the same improvement level others have shown!
With more trust I think Ines could have become a player of worth instead of how she WAS used! That's all I'm saying!
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
7,030
Reaction Score
17,934
Behold, I tell you a mystery
(
Part 3 Handel's Messiah...from somewhere in the Bible).

There are several questions under discussion in this thread.
Joe raised the following:

HOWEVER, given that she hasn't played meaningful minutes all year, you certainly don't put her in an NCAA Tournament game where the outcome has not been decided. That would be completely foolhardy.

Nan reinforced that view:

Why would you put a sophomore that averaged 5 minutes a game into a late-game, high pressure situation?

Let me start with Nan's query...Why? because Ice was completely out of her comfort zone with regard Offense...less so on D and rebounding which was most likely the reason that Geno left her in. But it was pretty scary anytime she had the ball in her hands and putting in another guard might have been appropriate.
Don't agree with the entre context.


1-- Ice had two turnovers when Nika left. Before Nika left UCONN had enough ballhandlers. Generally when you lose your all-time assist leader vs a high pressure team and you replace her with a very young big - pressure is going to happen. But as you say the team needed rebounding. The rebounds were tough to get with Brady in- what if that were Ines instead? Nika Muhl is extremely powerful for her size to boot. UCONN chose to sacrifice ballhandling vs rebounding. So, pressure on the Big is going to happen at the Offensive end. Incidentally Ice did commit two Turnovers when Nika left- but Paige and Aliyah also committed one each too.

2--- I don’t agree with your points about Ines. A.) There is no way Ines's comfort zone is defending against a combo of very quick guards and having to gang-rebound after a shot goes up. Also with after not playing this season much at all - there is no way to imply "comfort zone" for someone that hasn't played all season under these circumstances.

b)- There is no mystery why she hasn’t played. Last year there was one pg. ahead of Ines for much of the season. This year there are 3. How is that a mystery?

c.) And what would we say Ines’s least best thing she does? It would be rebounding, right? OFC there is a realization that a pg has less impact to rebound—the problem is this team is so small that they need even their pg’s to be very good rebounders in which Nika, Paige and KK are very good for their size at it which just pushes further down which last year at times with Dorka and Aubrey not near as much of a need.

Some posters on here I agree with much muhc much of their stuff they post but when it comes to Ines – what can I say I don't agree and I think what's been done is the most logical move. I may come across as cruel- which I don't want to be or mean to be-- but you play your best players. It just so happens this year we got 3 guards hat weren’t on the team last year that have bumped Ines - and Q is a sf that allowed some of the guards to not play SF at times etc.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
7,030
Reaction Score
17,934
hoophuskee- - -Ines if used more often DURING the season may have shown the same improvement level others have shown!
With more trust I think Ines could have become a player of worth instead of how she WAS used! That's all I'm saying!
And she may have "not shown." I suspect she hasn't. Aren';tyou always on board with Geno and what he speaks of in practices? Why assume the best coach in History is wrong? OFC you can crticize- and disagree with him - I'm just offering a view that I don't see the things many of you see in Ines. I agree with Geno on this. If I agree with him - I hopeothers won't translate this into I'm a hater or anything. I've just always been "play your best .. ."

I hiope this doesn't get us fighting on othe subejcts too. I respect youropionion a lot. And youa re a former wrestling coach too, as well? Ton of repsect. for you. I just don't see what some of you see in Ines vs giving the other palyers more time. Fore xample I lean more twoard Q,
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2023
Messages
737
Reaction Score
3,579
The
maybe Nika got her 5th foul because she did to the Syracuse player what they had been doing to her all night.
Like Geno I cannot believe this needs to be said: When you have four fouls you do not straight arm opponents like you are a running back.

It would have been an appropriate ending to her playing career: Thickheaded to the end.

Here's to hoping she gets an even better ending in Cleveland.
 

MSGRET

MSG, US Army Retired
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
6,665
Reaction Score
37,582
The

Like Geno I cannot believe this needs to be said: When you have four fouls you do not straight arm opponents like you are a running back.

It would have been an appropriate ending to her playing career: Thickheaded to the end.

Here's to hoping she gets an even better ending in Cleveland.
Why is she going to Cleveland? The next stop is Portland!
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2018
Messages
1,319
Reaction Score
6,884
HuskyNan- To me the question should be with Ines showing improvement in the summer and how she improved as the season went last year why she wasn't used more during the WHOLE season then he could have used her in the Big East and NCAA's!
I can't picture Ines being so lackluster at ALL practices, not showing any improvement, to warrant NO playing time!
She doesn't strike me as that type of player/person!
I love and respect Geno but sometimes he gets an impression of a player and that's set in stone and he never changes his mind!
When Geno was out for that series of games last season and CD took over, she played everyone and the least used players really came forward with good efforts!
If you didn't like Ines's playing time this year your going to hate what she gets next year.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
2,840
Reaction Score
13,159
The longer they stay in the tournament, then it's just a matter of time that they will all have to play. Just can't see someone(s) not getting in early foul trouble or flat out just fouling out. So...it's more like she's stapled than nailed.:) On a serious note...leaving Nika in with 4 fouls with serious time left in the game might not be a bad time to slip in even a couple of minutes from the bench. She needs a cooling off period from time to time. Reminds me of Pili from Utah. I don't think she counts her fouls or even cares.
 

PacoSwede

Creeker in fact
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,108
Reaction Score
5,563
Like Geno I cannot believe this needs to be said: When you have four fouls you do not straight arm opponents like you are a running back.

It would have been an appropriate ending to her playing career: Thickheaded to the end.

Here's to hoping she gets an even better ending in Cleveland.
yup. she was 'thickheaded.' she admits it's one of her flaws. but lordy, you gotta weigh that against her pluses -- which are many.

the idea that geno has to clue her in is ridiculous. she knew that she messed up. pushing off so blatantly was stupid -- but remember that she had to be exhausted at that point and her self-control no doubt was overcome by her basic instinct -- aggression, which she has managed to manage (a hard task) in recent years.

she had accumulated just two fouls to that point while playing very tough defense against primarily a superb, shifty scoring threat. then -- boom, boom, she's quickly assessed two more (questionable?) fouls.

seconds later, she blows it. sad -- but it happens.

regarding geno's failure to sub her out after the fourth foul:

1) he hardly had a chance (and you don't squander time outs at this point)

2) he trusted her because she is so vital to the team and she's previously played successfully with four fouls. so he decided the risk was the right course. i would agree. but nika -- like all of us -- made a mistake. sorry, she's not perfect, but she's damn good.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 13, 2023
Messages
117
Reaction Score
407
Why would you put a sophomore that averaged 5 minutes a game into a late-game, high pressure situation? Even the seniors struggled and people want Ines to go in and provide key minutes? The players aren’t robots, plug-n-play, they’re human beings that feel nerves. I can’t imagine Geno would put her in that situation
I believe that the position most are taking is how to best handle the Nika 4th quarter 5 min to go foul out (again just like the ND game). Seems as though when she exhausts herself covering the other teams best quick guard she hits a wall and makes mistakes. All we are saying is that a short break - subbing Q or Ines (better defender) and a timely reminder from Geno is a better option than what happened. That run that Syracuse went on was real scary and it was only Paige (and KK) that saved the day.
 

JoePgh

Cranky pants and wise acre
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
3,766
Reaction Score
22,192
maybe Nika got her 5th foul because she did to the Syracuse player what they had been doing to her all night.
If that is the case, then it's a classic example of successfully baiting one's opponent. That's a normal part of competitive sports, and it's Nika's fault for allowing it to work.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
7,030
Reaction Score
17,934
I believe that the position most are taking is how to best handle the Nika 4th quarter 5 min to go foul out (again just like the ND game). Seems as though when she exhausts herself covering the other teams best quick guard she hits a wall and makes mistakes. All we are saying is that a short break - subbing Q or Ines (better defender) and a timely reminder from Geno is a better option than what happened. That run that Syracuse went on was real scary and it was only Paige (and KK) that saved the day.
No. The best option is when you win. UCONN won. So how is what he did worng? If he pulls her for 2+ minutes that might be the difference in a loss. So where is teh msitake? It's just personal prefernce. So we are going to crticize him for not being abosultely perfect with NIka rather than just winning? When he wins -no injuires - with the team having a 1 week break the substituion pattern isn't wrong.
 

cohenzone

Old Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
19,103
Reaction Score
23,267
UConn is not going to win it all playing only 6 players. I understand Ines not playing, but Q can give you some minutes and she is a scoring threat.

Nika should have been pulled with the 4th foul. It was at 5:24. Geno could have put her back in after the 5:00 timeout.

I believe that fatigue is catching up to the players. Outscored Jackson St by only 1 (37-36) in the 2nd half and outscored by Syracuse by 3 (36-33) in the 2nd half. That is not a formula for winning a championship.
Having half your possible starters not in uniform is a bigger reason not to win a championship. As far as subbing went, with Nika out and KK in the first half, his choice had to be with adding a front court defender and rebounder or adding a possible other scorer. No way is Bettencourt ready to defend that team especially not helping with one of the most hard to defend players in college hoops. I can’t see Q having much rebounding success against that team plus she is known to have taken a few bad shots now and then. Brady was not going to score a lot and she did what was pretty important, rebound and defend and importantly, didn’t commit a single foul. Her getting into foul trouble would have really hurt. Syracuse is way better than the old Big East version. Tough out.

Our half a team is better than 95% of fully loaded teams. My attitude,is that between our men’s team and especially the women, year,after year we get to see them play til the last possible weekend or two of the season. We really are spoiled.
 
Joined
Jul 1, 2023
Messages
737
Reaction Score
3,579
Why is she going to Cleveland? The next stop is Portland!
I am hoping that Portland isn't the end of the road for Nika and the Huskies.

Much better to end her career at the Final Four (in victory of course).
 
Joined
Feb 21, 2022
Messages
639
Reaction Score
4,628
If that is the case, then it's a classic example of successfully baiting one's opponent. That's a normal part of competitive sports, and it's Nika's fault for allowing it to work.
I didnt say it wasn't Nika's fault. She absolutely shouldnt have committed those last to fouls. I'm just trying to come up with a reason.
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2023
Messages
167
Reaction Score
1,171
It’s mind boggling how people question Geno’s coaching and player substitution patterns. I think he knows more about the team than anyone. why would you put Ines in with under 5 min in a tournament game??? The team won and still questions about his decisions…
 

MSGRET

MSG, US Army Retired
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
6,665
Reaction Score
37,582
I am hoping that Portland isn't the end of the road for Nika and the Huskies.

Much better to end her career at the Final Four (in victory of course).
I claim a BrainFart on the Final Four, I was only thinking about the next game.
 
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
2,775
Reaction Score
9,098
Pardon me.

Nika gets her 4th foul in a close game. About 22 seconds later she fouls out.

Is it unreasonable to consider that Geno could have substituted and had a 20 second chat with Nika as to the gravity of the situation? Put Nika back in after that 20 seconds or if the team is still doing OK rest her a bit more.

Y’all are a tough crowd, but the fact remains that UConn turned the ball over and had subpar possessions with Nika on the bench. KK bailed us out and hopefully Nika learned a lesson.

Survive and advance.
There really is no lesson for Nika to learn. When you play an attacking aggressive point guard you are going to get into or be in foul trouble. Aggressive point guards who attack the defender put a tremendous amount of pressure on the defender. When Fair drives to the hoop it's basically a coin flip on whether a foul will be called. Nika did a great job defending her in the first 1/2 when Fair was basically probing our defense. In the 2nd half she started heading downhill to the hoop and really attacked Nika. If I was playing UConn that's what I would do, especially if I had a deep bench. Go right at Nika and Edwards early and often and get them in foul trouble.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
3,564
Reaction Score
17,263
And she may have "not shown." I suspect she hasn't. Aren';tyou always on board with Geno and what he speaks of in practices? Why assume the best coach in History is wrong? OFC you can crticize- and disagree with him - I'm just offering a view that I don't see the things many of you see in Ines. I agree with Geno on this. If I agree with him - I hopeothers won't translate this into I'm a hater or anything. I've just always been "play your best .. ."

I hiope this doesn't get us fighting on othe subejcts too. I respect youropionion a lot. And youa re a former wrestling coach too, as well? Ton of repsect. for you. I just don't see what some of you see in Ines vs giving the other palyers more time. Fore xample I lean more twoard Q,
hoophuskee- - - My thinking is if Geno didn't think Ines had potential why offer and give her a scholarship in the 1st place!
So if he saw potential do anything he can to get her to realize her potential instead of giving up on her!
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,995
Reaction Score
5,425
Behold, I tell you a mystery
(
Part 3 Handel's Messiah...from somewhere in the Bible).

There are several questions under discussion in this thread.
Joe raised the following:

HOWEVER, given that she hasn't played meaningful minutes all year, you certainly don't put her in an NCAA Tournament game where the outcome has not been decided. That would be completely foolhardy.

Nan reinforced that view:

Why would you put a sophomore that averaged 5 minutes a game into a late-game, high pressure situation?

Let me start with Nan's query...Why? because Ice was completely out of her comfort zone with regard Offense...less so on D and rebounding which was most likely the reason that Geno left her in. But it was pretty scary anytime she had the ball in her hands and putting in another guard might have been appropriate.

Then there is the complex question raised by Joe...
then first part is why, after showing promises and playing important minutes last year, at times, to reasonable success, would she be relegated to the deep, doggy house?

I have no answer, perhaps Nan knows...But I have a hard time believing that she regressed so much over the summer that she is now only suitable for mop-up.
She's quick and athletic...It's true she missed most of her shots this season but I don't think the few minutes she gets is representative.

We all know Geno's predilection for shortening the bench in tight spots and that certain players with some ability have been relegated...And he's mentioned his admiration for Q's potential, which is obvious to all.

But I (and others) thought that Ines might be quite useful this season, especially after the injuries...but apparently, no dice

A great mystery.
Certainly a mystery, that a coach would not anticipate a situation like what happened yesterday. And get Ines lots of minutes during those laughers in much of Big East play. 2 minutes is no preparation.
 

cohenzone

Old Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
19,103
Reaction Score
23,267
hoophuskee- - - My thinking is if Geno didn't think Ines had potential why offer and give her a scholarship in the 1st place!
So if he saw potential do anything he can to get her to realize her potential instead of giving up on her!
For the same reason he offered DeBerry. He saw potential or his assistants did. But it doesn’t always work out. I had a few bad hires in my day. I think in Ines’s case, she has more potential to contribute than Amari but has several guards in front of her who are plainly better. That’s seems unlikely to change next year.
 

Centerstream

Looking forward to this season
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
8,566
Reaction Score
33,679
Certainly a mystery, that a coach would not anticipate a situation like what happened yesterday. And get Ines lots of minutes during those laughers in much of Big East play. 2 minutes is no preparation.
You actually think that performing in laughers translates to performing in a close NCAAT game?
I read somewhere that you're judged on how you perform in practice and under specific situations.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,995
Reaction Score
5,425
yup. she was 'thickheaded.' she admits it's one of her flaws. but lordy, you gotta weigh that against her pluses -- which are many.

the idea that geno has to clue her in is ridiculous. she knew that she messed up. pushing off so blatantly was stupid -- but remember that she had to be exhausted at that point and her self-control no doubt was overcome by her basic instinct -- aggression, which she has managed to manage (a hard task) in recent years.

she had accumulated just two fouls to that point while playing very tough defense against primarily a superb, shifty scoring threat. then -- boom, boom, she's quickly assessed two more (questionable?) fouls.

seconds later, she blows it. sad -- but it happens.

regarding geno's failure to sub her out after the fourth foul:

1) he hardly had a chance (and you don't squander time outs at this point)

2) he trusted her because she is so vital to the team and she's previously played successfully with four fouls. so he decided the risk was the right course. i would agree. but nika -- like all of us -- made a mistake. sorry, she's not perfect, but she's damn good.
A lot of what's being said here is not criticism of Nika. Check the title of the thread again.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,995
Reaction Score
5,425
You actually think that performing in laughers translates to performing in a close NCAAT game?
I read somewhere that you're judged on how you perform in practice and under specific situations.
Yes, court time against anyone is better than bench time. Ditch the "judged in practice" stuff. When you've got so few players, and foul trouble can really put your team in a tight spot, you want to prepare a bit for that possibility. Beyond the laughers, there actually were games against Creighton and Marquette where it would have been "safe" to give Ines time against a quality team. This is not new with Geno, and it won't change.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
745
Reaction Score
1,829
Am I correct Q did not play at all? So Ice got all the sub minutes? Something going on?
Yea we don't need long 3 pointer misses, They are turnovers !
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
66
Guests online
1,328
Total visitors
1,394

Forum statistics

Threads
159,735
Messages
4,202,417
Members
10,073
Latest member
CTEspn


.
Top Bottom