Why Did We Run Off Guards?

[jibsey]

So this last season the point guards sitting on the pine watched Andre Jackson who is one of my favorite players on the the floor act as a point guard. Tremendous rebounder and passer but not a shooter or a breakdown threat off the dribble. Gaffney in particular must have been pretty annoyed with this even with his own flaws and limitations because he felt that was his position alongside Cole. Jackson who is valuable and has to play is a 3, not a bring up the ball point guard. Floyd and Diggins I couldn’t tell you but seeing that maybe told them that Hurley is running a strange system here and to look elsewhere.

 

[BlueMAB]

We ran off guards? Or they decided they didn't want to compete for the many, many minutes available to them?

 

[aburks41]

Jackson is in such a weird spot on this team because he does everything quite well except the most important thing in basketball...scoring. But yet he is going to play 30 MPG next year. He can be a special player if he can just learn how to use his athleticism to attack the hoop and develop a reliable shot where he doesn't need to be wide open and set his feet for 3 seconds before he launches the ball. He just complicates things because no one is sure what position he plays at lol

 

[storrsroars]

Seems Floyd realized the position wasn't going to be just handed to him w/o a fight. Newton visit, rumors of possible Castle reclassification, other guards being pursued. Given Floyd's interviews about how hard he and Karaban have practiced, maybe he felt he'd already earned a starting role and was surprised to learn he was being recruited over with Newton. I cannot think of another reason for his quick departure that doesn't involve tampering. Just seems more an emotional reaction than sanity

Gaffney had the opportunity to play important minutes. He shrunk from the challenge. Diggins apparently didn't practice well enough to earn minutes - and I wanted Dan Hurley to play Diggins and deal with the growing pains just so we had someone to back up Cole.

Not every recruit works out.

 

[jibsey]

Jackson is in such a weird spot on this team because he does everything quite well except the most important thing in basketball...scoring. But yet he is going to play 30 MPG next year. He can be a special player if he can just learn how to use his athleticism to attack the hoop and develop a reliable shot where he doesn't need to be wide open and set his feet for 3 seconds before he launches the ball. He just complicates things because no one is sure what position he plays at lol

Correct. He does too many valuable things to bench but he ain’t a point guard. Let’s not shovel dirt until we see what Danny has up his sleeve but Jackson developing a pretty jump shot over the summer? Don’t hold your breath,

 

[aburks41]

Seems Floyd realized the position wasn't going to be just handed to him w/o a fight. Newton visit, rumors of possible Castle reclassification, other guards being pursued. Given Floyd's interviews about how hard he and Karaban have practiced, maybe he felt he'd already earned a starting role and was surprised to learn he was being recruited over with Newton. I cannot think of another reason for his quick departure that doesn't involve tampering. Just seems more an emotional reaction than sanity

Gaffney had the opportunity to play important minutes. He shrunk from the challenge. Diggins apparently didn't practice well enough to earn minutes - and I wanted Dan Hurley to play Diggins and deal with the growing pains just so we had someone to back up Cole.

Not every recruit works out.

Obviously no one knows yet, but if a guy leaves because he is afraid of competition and thinks he "earned" a starting spot without stepping foot on the court yet, then they do not have a very long future in basketball. Some of these kids are getting terrible advice from their circle

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Correct. He does too many valuable things to bench but he ain’t a point guard. Let’s not shovel dirt until we see what Danny has up his sleeve but Jackson developing a pretty jump shot over the summer? Don’t hold your breath,

The issue for Diggins and Gaffney is that Andre was WAY better at running the point than either of them. This has been beat to death in the other threads, but Diggins and Gaffney were both clearly not going to see meaningful minutes this year, so their transfers are both understandable, and not particularly impactful to next year. Floyd, no one really knows at this point why he's bouncing, but is almost certainly the only one of the three that was looking at meaningful minutes.

 

[Sphinx]

You don't put a coach on the hot seat and expect him to sit still. Dan Hurley has to come up with a successful tournament team next year. It's clear what he's doing and there's little risk in it. Gaffney and Diggins didn't figure. He was up front with them and they left. Now, best-case, he recruits to the next level; worst-case, he finds new blood of equal caliber. There's little chance that he loses on that exchange.

Floyd, almost certainly, is collateral damage. But if Floyd is right in his assessment of playing time, then to that extent Dan Hurley's next-level probe may be succeeding. At least it looks that way to Floyd.

Given the guard options in the portal, there's little chance that Dan Hurley cannot, at worse, cover his losses. At best, we'll have a team to drool over.

 

[PlayItLeo]

Jackson really improved as point guard toward the end of this year and I think he freed up the offense a lot more, allowing Cole to move off-ball. The Seton Hall game in the BET was really what solidified it for me, but dating back to the win vs. Nova he had 31 assists to 4 turnovers. That is INSANE. Add in his 32 boards, and he'd be considered an All-BE player if he could score 10-12 consistently.

 

[Waquoit]

We ran off guards? Or they decided they didn't want to compete for the many, many minutes available to them?

I agree, show some evidence before you blast.

 

[huskyfan224]

I think I saw someone in another mention this, but does Floyd now have to sit another year as a transfer?

 

[Billy Bob]

Jackson really improved as point guard toward the end of this year and I think he freed up the offense a lot more, allowing Cole to move off-ball. The Seton Hall game in the BET was really what solidified it for me, but dating back to the win vs. Nova he had 31 assists to 4 turnovers. That is INSANE. Add in his 32 boards, and he'd be considered an All-BE player if he could score 10-12 consistently.

PG is not standing at the top of the key and passing. Have you seen him bringing the ball all the way up the court continuously with a guy closely guarding him? Show me these videos. That's one thing a PG has to do very well

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Have you seen him bringing the ball all the way up the court continuously with a guy closely guarding him?

Go watch literally any game from the second half of the season.

 

[PlayItLeo]

PG is not standing at the top of the key and passing. Have you seen him bringing the ball all the way up the court continuously with a guy closely guarding him? Show me these videos. That's one thing a PG has to do very well

PG is, however, moving the ball and finding your teammates for buckets while not turning the ball over. That's something he did do very well over the last 8 games, at a 31/4 clip.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

To be fair, forwards are leaving too.

 

[McLovin]

Jackson is in such a weird spot on this team because he does everything quite well except the most important thing in basketball...scoring. But yet he is going to play 30 MPG next year. He can be a special player if he can just learn how to use his athleticism to attack the hoop and develop a reliable shot where he doesn't need to be wide open and set his feet for 3 seconds before he launches the ball. He just complicates things because no one is sure what position he plays at lol

Here is the problem I see with Jackson...

If Hurley wants to play him at the 4, then it means a tough path to PT for Johnson.

If Hurley wants to play him at the 3, then it means a tough path to PT for Floyd.

Even though he will handle the ball, he's not taking away minutes from a lead guard (or Hawkins at the 2).

My assumption has to be that Hurley intends to play "4 out" with a 2 big line-up that has Johnson at the 4 and Jackson at the 3. Knowing this, as a 2/3 with no clear path to big minutes behind Hawkins and Jackson, CFJ left.

I was hoping to see Jackson at the 4, opening up more minutes at the 2/3 for CFJ. Guess that isn't the plan anymore...

 

[HuskyFich]

Here is the problem I see with Jackson...

If Hurley wants to play him at the 4, then it means a tough path to PT for Johnson.

If Hurley wants to play him at the 3, then it means a tough path to PT for Floyd.

Even though he will handle the ball, he's not taking away minutes from a lead guard (or Hawkins at the 2).

My assumption has to be that Hurley intends to play "4 out" with a 2 big line-up that has Johnson at the 4 and Jackson at the 3. Knowing this, as a 2/3 with no clear path to big minutes behind Hawkins and Jackson, CFJ left.

I was hoping to see Jackson at the 4, opening up more minutes at the 2/3 for CFJ. Guess that isn't the plan anymore...

I just can't see Hawkins playing the 2...based on ball handling issues so far.
As of now I imagine:

Newton
Jackson
Hawkins
Johnson/Karaban
Sanogo

 

[McLovin]

I just can't see Hawkins playing the 2...based on ball handling issues so far.
As of now I imagine:

Newton
Jackson
Hawkins
Johnson/Karaban
Sanogo

Sure. It's just semantics whether you slot him at the 2 or 3. But basically both of those spots are accounted for for 30 MPG if Hurley won't play AJ big minutes at the 4. CFJ probably saw best case scenario he would play 15MPG as a back up.

 

[HooperScooper]

I think I saw someone in another mention this, but does Floyd now have to sit another year as a transfer?

No. Everyone gets 1 free transfer without sitting out a year. Very surprised anyone on this board doesn't know that.

 

[jibsey]

I just can't see Hawkins playing the 2...based on ball handling issues so far.
As of now I imagine:

Newton
Jackson
Hawkins
Johnson/Karaban
Sanogo

3 point shooting with this lineup?

 

[HuskyFich]

3 point shooting with this lineup?

Wanna show me a lineup that has 3 point shooting?

 

[gtcam]

Go watch literally any game from the second half of the season.

C'mon lets be fair Dove - how many times has the ball been given to AJ directly and he has brought it up the court under pressure? Yeah he has shown he can pass the ball but in reality he has played very few minutes as the primary ball handler. Neither you and I have any idea how he will perform under that circumstance. Maybe he can but my gut says he isn't a PG. If he were Gaff would have not stepped on the court at all.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

C'mon lets be fair Dove - how many times has the ball been given to AJ directly and he has brought it up the court under pressure? Yeah he has shown he can pass the ball but in reality he has played very few minutes as the primary ball handler. Neither you and I have any idea how he will perform under that circumstance. Maybe he can but my gut says he isn't a PG. If he were Gaff would have not stepped on the court at all.

I'm convinced we were not watching the same games at the end of last season. When RJ was on the bench, Andre was almost exclusively playing point and was the primary ball handler. When RJ was in the game, Andre was handling a pretty big chunk of the load at point and as primary ball handler, allowing RJ to slide off ball. Your points about him not being given the ball to bring it up court and having played very few minutes as the primary ball handler are just factually inaccurate.

 

[bendm]

Cause we’re gonna bring in at least 3 Gs that are each better than the 3 Gs we lost

 

[BlueMAB]

I'm convinced we were not watching the same games at the end of last season. When RJ was on the bench, Andre was almost exclusively playing point and was the primary ball handler. When RJ was in the game, Andre was handling a pretty big chunk of the load at point and as primary ball handler, allowing RJ to slide off ball. Your points about him not being given the ball to bring it up court and having played very few minutes as the primary ball handler are just factually inaccurate.

not to mention how many times he grabbed a rebound and pushed the ball up without it being given to him.

people seem to be clamoring for a PG who can slow the tempo, dribble the ball up the floor, and start the princeton offense that we don't even run anyway.

 

[Kenny11]

Jackson can play the point. If he could become a better finisher or at least attack the rim and draw fouls while trying to dunk on everyone, that would be preferable to him running the point full time. For such an explosive athlete, he doesn’t dunk much. But I think that will change as a junior who learns how to stop being so unselfish.
He certainly has the best passing vision on the team but I would rather him be the finisher.

 

[bendm]

assuming we bring in another immediate impact transfer G, floyd prob just didn't wanna be a third string W. get used to it b/c this wont be the last time we lose an underclassmen who thinks they can get a lot more PT elsewhere (like at PC).

SG: Hawk / transfer? / Floyd
SF: Jackson / Karaban / Floyd

 

[dogpause]

The players who left were not going to get us to where we want to go. I respect their decisions and respect Dan Hurley's honesty with them.

 

[Edward Sargent]

Here is the problem I see with Jackson...

If Hurley wants to play him at the 4, then it means a tough path to PT for Johnson.

If Hurley wants to play him at the 3, then it means a tough path to PT for Floyd.

Even though he will handle the ball, he's not taking away minutes from a lead guard (or Hawkins at the 2).

My assumption has to be that Hurley intends to play "4 out" with a 2 big line-up that has Johnson at the 4 and Jackson at the 3. Knowing this, as a 2/3 with no clear path to big minutes behind Hawkins and Jackson, CFJ left.

I was hoping to see Jackson at the 4, opening up more minutes at the 2/3 for CFJ. Guess that isn't the plan anymore...

Why is that a problem for Jackson? Shouldn't that be a problem for Johnson and Floyd?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Obviously no one knows yet, but if a guy leaves because he is afraid of competition and thinks he "earned" a starting spot without stepping foot on the court yet, then they do not have a very long future in basketball. Some of these kids are getting terrible advice from their circle

Given that his dad played at PC, I seriously doubt that he's getting bad advice. I don't think we know if competition is why he left. He's a prototype guard for Hurley's system, like Martin. He was going to play. I don't think anybody expected him to start, because Hawkins is ahead of him and he's not getting the PG job. I doubt he expected to start as a freshman.