Why a yearly Thanksgiving series vs UMASS makes sense | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Why a yearly Thanksgiving series vs UMASS makes sense

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ZooCougar said:
I would give Rutgers some time. They will be happy in their new home, but there isn't another school in that conference that will perceive them as a rival. They may opt to make a traditonal opponent like us as a fixture on their OOC.
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Maryland...if only because they enter the conference at the same time. And the distance between the two schools is driveable.
 
Husky25 said:
Maryland...if only because they enter the conference at the same time. And the distance between the two schools is driveable.
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I doubt Maryland will want them as a rival.
 
Carl Spackler said:
I figured. Here's the hard truth and quick history lesson.

Without the complete dysfunction of the Big East conference from about 1990-2010, UCONN football, and most likely it's entire athletic department, and by extension the university itself, is not where it's at, and we are most likely still on par with our long time new england state instutions like UMass, URI, Maine, UNH, Vermont. WHo knows - maybe hockey would be the dominant sport at UCONN had the Big East conference disbanded in 1991 and not started playign football. No other BCS conference (BCS begain in 1998 - out of a few iterations of similar concepts) would have given UCONN the opportunity we got to upgrade, and that offer came in 1997, and went into effect past point of no return in 2000.

So - without a doubt, we owe the vast majority of the credit as to why the institution has become the place it has, over the past 23 years, to the existence of the Big EAst conference, and our relationship with that conference. THat's the good. THe bad, is that by doing what we did, and playing the hands we were dealt the way we were dealt, we essentially gave up and then lost the concept of having rivalry in football. We gave up our long time rivalries to move. We navigated through different conferences and independance to joining the Big EAst a year early in 2004. THe programs we though we'd be playing all left. New programs came in.

Football scheduling and developing rivalry is a long term commitment. YOu only get 12 games a year, and 8 of those minimum need to be conference games. I bet that if you were to go back and look, that since 1997, we have not played one single program more than 6 or 7 times total. With the constant change in conference membership, we have different schedules every year, for 16 years, which means there has been no chance at all to build rivalry, let alone the kind of specific weekend each year rivalrly you are talking about.

Would I like to have it? What you describe? Yes. Absolutley, but UMass doesn't fit the bill, and the others that would, regionally, are in different conferences and don't have scheduling windows.

Therefore, for people your age, and even older, I would say - to about 30-35 or so, that have followed UCONN football, the concept of having a yearly rivalry game with anyone, is completely foreign. We reached for concepts like a rivalry with University of New Jersey, but they are now gone too.

So - that's the trade-off for making the upgrade, and joining the big boys, although we are conference affiliated, and have been, we are essentially very much like the independants remaining in 1A football, when it comes to being able to schedule a late November rivalry game in 2014-2015 and moving forward.

All of your ideas make perfect sense, and that's why it's kind of heartbreaking for me to read. BUt it's been laid out clearly, we do not have a conference affiliation, that would allow for regularl scheduling of such an opponent that you would like to see. If we do want to build such a late season scheduling arrangement with someone, it's either going to be a new conference member from scratch, or we need to pursue the indpendants that are always looking for late season scheduling, and the only two that make any sense would be Army or BYU, as I noted.

If UMass were to be such an opponent, they would have to rise up to our level, because we are not going back to theirs. To their credit, they're trying...but they are way behind, and it's not looking good.
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I understand what you're saying, but I think it's important to us (and quite frankly could be a very beneficial money maker for us) if Umass is able to make it in D1. Obviously I would rather play Boston College, but they won't schedule us. So you know what? duck them. Make them less of a deal in their state than they already are and make a fun SERIES (not just football) like this with Umass and when they see how its a success and that people in New England want to see their teams play other New England schools we can add them and RU to the series and play it all at a neutral site or something (NYC, Boston, Hartford). There's no point in sitting there begging Boston Freaking College to play us in anything. Let $ talk and if a UConn/Umass hockey/basketball/football series in November every year makes money (which I really think it would, maybe try to cut a deal with SNY to cover the whole thing) then they'd be stupid to not do it because it earns them more money. We make 2 mil a year from our conference. We gotta try to come up with some other way to bring in revenue.
 
Yonick said:
Years ago, during the Marcus Camby era a hue & cry for a hoops game developed.
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And when they scheduled the game, no one showed up.
 
ZooCougar said:
I doubt Maryland will want them as a rival.
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At the end of the day, the institutions really don't get to pick. Rivalries are not born out of want to...They are born organically out of:
1) Fan passion (Neither school seems to have it even when they are good...those seasons will be fewer and farther between now)
2) Close, well played games that can go either way and year after year.
3) Success. It remains to be seen if either can pull themselves away from challenging Indiana for perpetual Big 10 doormat. Don't point to Bowl games. Rutgers went 6-6 in a mediocre AAC. Maryland went 7-5 vs. an equally (maybe slightly better than) mediocre ACC and got schooled by Marshall in the Military bowl.
 
I get the concept here and in theory I agree with it. But I think it is a bit early in the process from UMass's perspective for this deal. They need to have at least modest success. They also need a campus home, for this to work, I think. And at least initially, I'd want to do 3-2 or 6-4 home-away depending on how it is scheduled. The idea of playing it at a neutral site, forget that. this might be more of a kickoff/early season game at least initially. As far as a late season rivalry game, who knows. the good thing about Rutgers was it developed sort of organically. Nobody planned it to be the rivalry it became. And that's how most good ones eventually develop unless they go back 100 years. Good games, controversial games, upsets, wild finishes...For such a short series, UConn-Rutgers had all of the above.
 
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TouchdownHusky said:
Yeah, because you needed to take out a home equity loan to afford a ticket to that first renewal to the rivalry.
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Wasn't it also played a year too late? No Ray? No Marcus?
 
Husky25 said:
At the end of the day, the institutions really don't get to pick. Rivalries are not born out of want to...They are born organically out of:
1) Fan passion (Neither school seems to have it even when they are good...those seasons will be fewer and farther between now)
2) Close, well played games that can go either way and year after year.
3) Success. It remains to be seen if either can pull themselves away from challenging Indiana for perpetual Big 10 doormat. Don't point to Bowl games. Rutgers went 6-6 in a mediocre AAC. Maryland went 7-5 vs. an equally (maybe slightly better than) mediocre ACC and got schooled by Marshall in the Military bowl.
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The fan passion has to happen in both directions. It might be there on the Rutgers side, but I sincerely doubt that Maryland will reciprocate.That's what I mean. Penn State has been in the B1G for a couple of decades now, and they really don't have an established rival. Some say MSU is theirs but it doesn't really pass the smell test.
 
Husky25 said:
Wasn't it also played a year too late? No Ray? No Marcus?
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No dice. Was there a true clamor for these schools to play or not? The answer turned out to be not.
 
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ZooCougar said:
The fan passion has to happen in both directions. It might be there on the Rutgers side, but I sincerely doubt that Maryland will reciprocate.That's what I mean. Penn State has been in the B1G for a couple of decades now, and they really don't have an established rival. Some say MSU is theirs but it doesn't really pass the smell test.
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We'll see. Who is the home team over the next few years? Edsall's teams seam to play up/down to the talent of their opponent. If they play a back and forth contest in Piscataway next year (That joke is way too easy. Is that the reason no one does it?), I can see Rutgers fans invading College Park in '15. You are right though it may take a few more years on Maryland's end.
 
Husky25 said:
We'll see. Who is the home team over the next few years? Edsall's teams seam to play up/down to the talent of their opponent. If they play a back and forth contest in Piscataway next year (That joke is way too easy. Is that the reason no one does it?), I can see Rutgers fans invading College Park in '15. You are right though it may take a few more years on Maryland's end.
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I doubt Edsall will be the Maryland coach after next season. Even if a rivalry developed, it wouldn't preclude them from seeking out an OOC rival that is close by.
 
Waquoit said:
No dice. Was there a true clamor for these schools to play or not? The answer turned out to be not.
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Dicky V...every game he announced that year. Apparently he thought it was 1971 and Juniors weren't allowed to declare for the NBA.
 
ZooCougar said:
I doubt Edsall will be the Maryland coach after next season. Even if a rivalry developed, it wouldn't preclude them from seeking out an OOC rival that is close by.
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That was never my argument. My point is that the two will probably be forever linked merely because they enter the Big Ten at the same time. Rivalries have formed out of much less.
 
Husky25 said:
Dicky V...every game he announced that year. Apparently he thought it was 1971 and Juniors weren't allowed to declare for the NBA.
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Dickie V.? Wasn't he the guy that said he would do the game if they scheduled it and somehow missed it when they did?
 
Waquoit said:
Dickie V.? Wasn't he the guy that said he would do the game if they scheduled it and somehow missed it when they did?
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Must have been a Duke game vs. Southwest North Carolina Tech State College on the same day.
 
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Husky25 said:
ARMY/NAVY was played in mid December. Which is at least one week after the rest of FBS football school have completed their schedule. I think its been that way for a while.
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What happens when Navy joins the AAC? The conference, with 12 teams, will have a conference championship game. Should Navy be eligible for the CCG, will they continue to conclude the regular season one week after participating in it?
 
ZooCougar said:
The fan passion has to happen in both directions. It might be there on the Rutgers side, but I sincerely doubt that Maryland will reciprocate.That's what I mean. Penn State has been in the B1G for a couple of decades now, and they really don't have an established rival. Some say MSU is theirs but it doesn't really pass the smell test.
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That's my point on "rivalries" With the exception of some natural ones that go back 100 years, Harvard-Yale, Army Navy, Michigan-Ohio State, its really not possible to ordain them. BC-Clemson was supposed to be the ACC match up for the Eagles. Nobody much went for it. And we came from a conference that couldn't seem to figure out to take advantage of the ones that actually existed, in fact seem to go to great lengths sometimes to NOT schedule them for rivalry weekend. Rivalries develop on their own.
 
OK. What we are trying to do is create something special. Will UConn vs. UMass ever become one of these:

My guess is not. Obviously it is ridiculous to suggest it would. We are very short in the game of top level college football here. The majority of our history has been played against schools that have not made the jump.

The obvious candidates for us would be Rutgers, BC and UMass for a Thanksgiving Rivalry. Politics aside, it should be BC. There is a built in hatred. There are regional stakes. Recruiting battles.

The rivalry needs to be real and not the creation of athletic departments or broadcasters. There is an existing history here that should be exploited.
 
Don't forget the most played college football rivalry: Lehigh vs Lafayette. Go Hawks!
 
coachcap said:
What happens when Navy joins the AAC? The conference, with 12 teams, will have a conference championship game. Should Navy be eligible for the CCG, will they continue to conclude the regular season one week after participating in it?
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To my knowledge, the army/navy game will not be moved, and should the situation arise where Navy will qualify for an American Athletic CCG, with only 11 games played, in 2015 or thereafter, they'll play the CCG on the first Saturday in December, then get Army the following Saturday, and then have their bowl game a week or two later, which if they are in position to play in CCG, and win the Army game as well, will probably be in contention for the 4 team playoff system.

Even if they only played in one bowl game, instead of the 4 team playoff - should Navy get into this position, they'll pretty much put to rest the concept that a true playoff of all conference champions, and at large seeds in a playoff field for a national champion, would be too much football, or too many games, for a college student athlete to handle.
 
coachcap said:
What happens when Navy joins the AAC? The conference, with 12 teams, will have a conference championship game. Should Navy be eligible for the CCG, will they continue to conclude the regular season one week after participating in it?
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Was wondering the same thing. I guess they would have to. No way they are moving that game.
 
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hexlub said:
OK. What we are trying to do is create something special. Will UConn vs. UMass ever become one of these:

My guess is not. Obviously it is ridiculous to suggest it would. We are very short in the game of top level college football here. The majority of our history has been played against schools that have not made the jump.

The obvious candidates for us would be Rutgers, BC and UMass for a Thanksgiving Rivalry. Politics aside, it should be BC. There is a built in hatred. There are regional stakes. Recruiting battles.

The rivalry needs to be real and not the creation of athletic departments or broadcasters. There is an existing history here that should be exploited.
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Would love Rutgers and BC on the schedule. Short distance to travel gives the students a chance at actually traveling to an away game.
 
Thanksgiving is for local high schools to play their traditional games
 
hexlub said:
OK. What we are trying to do is create something special. Will UConn vs. UMass ever become one of these:

My guess is not. Obviously it is ridiculous to suggest it would. We are very short in the game of top level college football here. The majority of our history has been played against schools that have not made the jump.

The obvious candidates for us would be Rutgers, BC and UMass for a Thanksgiving Rivalry. Politics aside, it should be BC. There is a built in hatred. There are regional stakes. Recruiting battles.

The rivalry needs to be real and not the creation of athletic departments or broadcasters. There is an existing history here that should be exploited.
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You forgot Oklahoma vs. Texas (Red River Shootout) and to a much smaller extent, Pitt vs. WVU (Backyard Brawl), but as you, me, and Scoot have said, rivalries are not manufactured, they are nurtured.
 
uconnbill said:
Thanksgiving is for local high schools to play their traditional games
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Are you saying that you don't think college football should be played 50 hours later?
 
CTMike said:
Engineers. :)
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Haha..I'd consider Mountain Hawk an upgrade.

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