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Now your getting it. ACC + Conference Raiding = Predatory Practices designed to eliminate closest competitor. A non-football playing Georgetown would be the "smoking gun" of all "smoking guns".
Who gives two $#!T$?
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Now your getting it. ACC + Conference Raiding = Predatory Practices designed to eliminate closest competitor. A non-football playing Georgetown would be the "smoking gun" of all "smoking guns".
The B1G makes more money than any conference, including the SEC.
They are not going to add anyone unless it makes them more valuable. I'm not 100% on the numbers, but I think they are making about $18-$19mm per team. If they go from 12 to 14 teams the new teams would have to be extremely valuable to increase on the per team pay out. I don't think RU and UConn are that valuable. If we were, we would have been invited elsewhere by now.
The past few years there has been a lot of talk about the inevitable super conferences. This ignores the law of diminishing returns. I'm not sure where that number is, but I believe it's more likely 12-14 than 16.
The B1G isn't happening. The ACC is still a possibility in a couple years, IMO. But I think UConn, Louisville, USF, and RU should get on the phone with the Big 12. They can expand their footprint into the northeast, pick up a new school in Florida. Some quality basketball in UConn/Louisville, and growing/competitive football programs in all four.
The B1G is the richest conference in college sports. You'd have to show why they are more valuable adding RU and UConn. UConn and RU would have to improve the value by roughly $50-$60 million/year to be invited. I don't think we are that valuable. If we were, we could go independent, which is not an option.
Before you say we bring NY, there are more CFB fans of B1G schools in NYC than UConn. OSU, Michigan, PSU, etc all have a lot of alum in NYC. Basketball is important but doesn't bring the money that football does which brings us back to my point above. And the B1G isn't a cupcake in basketball. OSU has a fine tradition in hoops, Michigan has had its runs. Iowa is a quality program. Indiana is a national program. Michigan St is a national program. Purdue, Wisconsin are solid programs. They have quality hoops already, adding UConn would improve it, but not by $25 million/year.
http://nyc.umclubs.com/index.php?page=football-saturdays
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My numbers are very fuzzy, but if we figure 5m TVs in NYC, which is probably low, it could mean another $5-10m/month in revenue if they pick up the B1G network. Not only that, but besides UConn and RU, the east coast is officially sealed up. the ACC has taken every other worthwhile east coast property that I can think of with a $50m exit fee. If the ACC adds UConn and Rutgers, the B1G will be basically be locked out of the east coast.
This move might fast forward the formation of the alleged "super conferences" that we weren't expecting for a few more year. ND was always the hold up
Our football program would absolutely freaking explode if we were in the B1G. Conference affiliation is huge. We do have an old (and classic) football program/history. 3 titles in men's basketball, 7 in women's basketball, 3 in men's soccer, 4 national title game appearances and 0 wins for women's soccer, 20+ conference titles in football. That is an impressive resume.
I've highlighted the key part. There was a time in NYC where some fans couldn't watch the Yankees or the Mets on certain providers. Are those customers going to throw a fit and/or pay more for the B1G? Based on the number of fans above, I don't think you should assume the providers will pick up the B1G, or there will be enough fans willing to buy a B1G package to make it worth it. Based on the # of fans shown above, there are fewer than 2 million CFB fans in NYC. That's less than half of what's needed to get to your $5mm-$10mm/month number.
If it were as easy as "add UConn/RU and make an extra $120 mllion/year for the conference" it would have been done by now.
Like you, I would absolutely love an invite to the B1G, and I pray I'm wrong. But I don't believe it will ever happen.
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What's your point? None of that matters. Money is all that matters.
And we are in the top 50 in athletic department revenue. With a better TV deal, we'd be top 25.
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Verizon has B1G, eventually the cable companies would have to to keep up. Don't forget, those NYC numbers aren't including the 3.5m people in CT and the 9m in NJ. My main point is that because of the B1G, their economics are a little different than other conferences where you're just relying on ESPN to give you more money. I'm sure the B1G wants to become a national channel, and that won't happen without a single school on the east coast.
Is this a serious post or a joke? Obviously with a better TV deal (or B1G invite) we'd make more money. But that's because the B1G's per team payout would be divided by 1 (or 2) additional teams. Which means the schools inviting us would have to be willing to make less money. You think all 12 schools are going to agree to a pay cut to add UConn? Because why exactly?
Unless we bring in an additional $25+/-million per team with us, we aren't getting invited. If you don't understand that, you don't understand why we're still on the outside looking in. We have to improve their current per team payout (which is the highest in college sports) in order to get an invite. Nothing you've posted is even relative to that undeniable fact.
Show me where UConn and RU add $50+ million per year to a tv contract and I'll show you an invite to the B1G.
How exactly are Purdue, Northwestern, Indiana, Michigan State $25 million programs? We have a much larger market than them.
At worst, we'd be a middle of the pack athletic department in the B1G. Has Nebraska football been mauling the B1G? They have 5 national titles.
How many of those 12.5 mm are 1) fans and 2) willing to pay more money for the B1G?
NYC has about 8% of population who are "fans", if CT/NJ are double that, then we're talking 2 million fans. (16% of 12.5, if my math is correct). And all of those fans are not fans of B1G schools.
We're still 1 million below the 5 million tv sets needed at a minimum. The problem is that CFB is not big in the northeast. The population numbers simply don't matter. What matters is how many are actually interested and watching. And that number is very low when compared to the markets of the ACC, SEC, and B1G.
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I see this conversation is going over your head.
What they are worth is completely irrelevant since they are already in the conference. Every team in the B1G is not of equal value. That doesn't matter, they are already in the B1G and getting an equal share.
If we want to be a part of that, we have to bring more value to the conference. OSU, PSU, and Michigan already have to share with Northwestern and others. They aren't going to take less money to add UConn/RU. Why is this so difficult to understand?
You have difficulty understanding that cultures can change. Who ever imagined a third of the freaking country would watch the Super Bowl? (Only 50 million outside of the country. Still not bad.)
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Agreed. Maybe I'm a pessimist, maybe it's just because I'm a lawyer and see risk in everything, but I can't interpret what's going on as anything other than an unmitigated disaster.
LMAO. You have difficulty responding to the facts that are relevant to the discussion.
The only thing that matters is whether the B1G has a higher per team payout with UConn/RU than it does now. Everything else you've posted about, including the Super Bowl, is completely irrelevant. When you decide to address/discuss that fact, let us know.
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Everyone should care. ND, despite the big east being a good partner to them, the big east. What was the harm in letting the Big East work out its TV contract before they pulled this stunt? Word coming out now that the ACC Orange Bowl opponent will be ND, SEC, Big Ten on a rotating basis. ND now becomes part of the machine that bad mouths the big east at every opportunity. Digest that, as you reminisce about all the "good" that came from ND's affiliation with the Big East.
Without their affiliation we would have made less money and gotten worse bowls. Kicking them out would not have prevented them from joining the nACC anyway.
We are where we are because the conference ignored the importance of football decades ago, not because ND was a temporary band aid.
For years many here said no other conference would do what the Big East offered and that's why we should kick them out. Whoops.
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Welcome to the world of potential. Don't know if you know success is based on vision.
Welcome to the real world.
Where the Big East is forced to settle for "potential" with schools like Houston, SMU, Memphis, and UCF.
And the B1G can sit back and allow the most valuable free agent available to walk because they are already the highest paid conference in the country.
Everyone focuses on the market share.
Take a look at the population share. It doesn't matter how large your market is if the population isn't interested in the product.
Utah has about 2.8 million people. San Francisco has about 800,000. Where is the LOGO channel more valuable?
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Standing by them and letting them keep their teams here worked out real well didn't it. Forget the bowls and money. BE was getting peanuts compared to other conferences anyway. Where the Big East was getting somewhat comparable money was from the BCS pie. ND wasn't helping with that anyway. ND the BE. Spin it, justify it anyway you want. That's what they did. They ran right into the arms of the one league who has made its mission to destroy the Big East.
What would would have been accomplished by kicking them out?
Better bowls? No, we needed them.
More TV money? No, football was getting what it was getting, basketball which is worth more to the big east than any other conference, would have gotten less.
More stability? No, nobody would have been more likely to stick just because ND was booted.
Them joining the ACC? No, that happened anyway.
I never loved the idea of their partnership, but that doesn't mean you can rewrite history to pretend things would have changed if we just kicked them out or never signed them on in the first place. It's not grounded in reality, it's simply yet another person looking to place blame rather than acknowledging the fact the big east was destined to fail when they placed basketball ahead of football. ND had nothing to do with that decision, other than accepting a deal offered by the conference. Blame the conference for giving them the deal, not ND for accepting it.
Pitt the big east, Cuse the big east, BCU the big east, VT the big east, Miami the big east, TCU the big east, WVU the big east, ND can get in line behind all of them, who did what was in their best interest.
Guess what, at the first opportunity we get, UConn will fuck the big east too.
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ND leaving is what it is. BE was useful to a point, no longer so to them. I've been an advocate of they are either sll in or out for some time, lot of you had problems with that. Only difference between my way and all your concerns was timing - re instead of doing it on the BE timetable we allowed ND to pick and chose the best time for them to depart.
As far as being a big problem going forward, don't see it. Now we have another hybrid conference. If everything settles down for a while will see how contract goes and if B12 does anything.
Didn't and don't see near term B10 invite, didn't expect ACC. Unless SEC goes after ACC schools or B12 go after Louisville/Cin - ND playing out like this is great for them (since they picked it) and not really bad for BE. Now just football schools and non football schools; no one else too good to allow football team to join - let ACC agree to that.
BS, SDS, Houston, SMU, UCF, USF, Temple, Memphis aren't going anywhere under most scenarios. Add Uconn and have 9. Leaves Rutgers, Louisville, Cin who could leave but unless B12 or SEC move not likely. Navy is in until I hear other wise so that would be 10 for football at least. Maybe not a lot of "they wore leather helmets" in the group, but hey, something to be said for a league with a chip on its shoulders. Add BYU to current group and nice 14 schools to push for media contract (I'm sure our media consultants are negotiating some what if's; as would the media buyers in case it goes the other way re losing teams).
As far as being a big problem going forward, don't see it. Now we have another hybrid conference. If everything settles down for a while will see how contract goes and if B12 does anything.
Didn't and don't see near term B10 invite, didn't expect ACC. Unless SEC goes after ACC schools or B12 go after Louisville/Cin - ND playing out like this is great for them (since they picked it) and not really bad for BE. Now just football schools and non football schools; no one else too good to allow football team to join - let ACC agree to that.
BS, SDS, Houston, SMU, UCF, USF, Temple, Memphis aren't going anywhere under most scenarios. Add Uconn and have 9. Leaves Rutgers, Louisville, Cin who could leave but unless B12 or SEC move not likely. Navy is in until I hear other wise so that would be 10 for football at least. Maybe not a lot of "they wore leather helmets" in the group, but hey, something to be said for a league with a chip on its shoulders. Add BYU to current group and nice 14 schools to push for media contract (I'm sure our media consultants are negotiating some what if's; as would the media buyers in case it goes the other way re losing teams).
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My only real thought on this is good riddance to ND, don't let the door hit ya on the on the way out. I always disliked them being in the big east for everything besides football. Well that's not the whole truth, I have never liked them period.
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To me the damage is more psychological/preceptional than real,despite what some like to think, Notre Dame's relationship to the Big East was as much a negative as a positive on the football side. yes it helped with some bowls, though at a cost of slots for the Big East teams...one can certainly argue that without the Irish option the league would never have gotten some, but what little evidence There is of that comes from after the fact reports which are inevitably designed to make the end result look good . the fact that Notre Dame would neither join nor play Big East teams on a long term committed basis even after promising to do so clearly hurt the conference perception. thsi was especially true whe they turned around and agreed to play ACC members.
On the basketball side, Notre Dame had some market value, no doubt, but I think to say it has pulled above its weight is a little disingenuous. They have been in the big East since 1995 and have won as many Big East tournaments as Memphis who won't even be in the league until next year. Since 1995 they have 8 NCAA bids with 1 trip to the Sweet 16 as the high point. its better than Rutgers, but Marquette, which joined 10 years later has 1 only 1 fewer trips and been to 2 Sweet 16s, so lets not make the Irish out to be some great basketball power.
The real downside to their leaving is the timing. Just when it seemed like the Big East was stabilizing, getting good reviews on its new leader, here's another defection which undoes all the good news of the last few weeks, and where they are going...once again the ACC gets the better of the Big East.
On the basketball side, Notre Dame had some market value, no doubt, but I think to say it has pulled above its weight is a little disingenuous. They have been in the big East since 1995 and have won as many Big East tournaments as Memphis who won't even be in the league until next year. Since 1995 they have 8 NCAA bids with 1 trip to the Sweet 16 as the high point. its better than Rutgers, but Marquette, which joined 10 years later has 1 only 1 fewer trips and been to 2 Sweet 16s, so lets not make the Irish out to be some great basketball power.
The real downside to their leaving is the timing. Just when it seemed like the Big East was stabilizing, getting good reviews on its new leader, here's another defection which undoes all the good news of the last few weeks, and where they are going...once again the ACC gets the better of the Big East.
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The Big East should have thrown ND out years ago? Either all in or all out. By not doing that the Irish had the luxury of a conference affiliation for all other sports while negotiating a similiar deal with another conference (can't belief there is another conference out there stupid enough to get use in such fashion). Had the BE ousted them, they would have a to scramble around on behalf of their non football teams and probably would not have had the leverage to affect a deal like they got with the ACC.
junglehusky
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WingU is killin' it in this thread...
Since when does performance matter? Who has a better record over the past 15 years in the big east than uconn? But Pitt and cuse got the invites.
ND has been a huge disappointment on the football field. Hasn't stopped NBC from re-signing them.
I never said they were a power. But they were on national tv more than providence, seton hall, usf, Depaul, etc for a reason. They bring eyeballs.
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