While athletic departments across the country lay off employees, UConn has largely avoided any layoffs. There's a reason why... (Borges)

[billybud]

Wow...in Florida, unless you are law enforcement, a public employee with 20 years service and making $100,000 would make $32,000 a year at age 65...and a reduction from that year for year under 65.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Wow...in Florida, unless you are law enforcement, a public employee with 20 years service and making $100,000 would make $32,000 a year at age 65...and a reduction from that year for year under 65.

The state needs to adequately fund its pension obligations. The deal isn’t as good now as it was so many years ago.

And, should OT be calculated? And how are the earnings calculated? We can look at that, but that has to be collectively bargained. State Police union will never agree to a new way to calculate pension.

 

[UConnJim]

Teachers and janitors make too much? God forbid they have a degree of security in their life.

Teachers are either important or not. The state job is either important and necessary or not. If it is necessary, pay the people. Americans have taken it on the chin with regard to 401ks and health care for the last 20 years.

Pensions keep people in jobs and allow them security late in life. That allows them to leave the workforce and not have to work until death.

Actually, having a 401k vs a pension is liberating as you are able to change jobs with no impact to your retirement. When pensions were common in the private sector, many people stayed at jobs they hated because of their pension. I’d bet there are plenty of state employees that hate their job, but are sticking it out due to their pension.

Based on the history of pension problems, I advise friends to not count on their pension as their only source of income and they should be saving and investing as well to fund their retirement. Unfortunately, the pension obligations of many states are not sustainable and they will have to be restructured. I think politicians are doing retirees a disservice by not admitting to the problem now to allow retirees to plan for the future.

 

[JohnFSilver]

The tone of your questions seem to imply you believe the teacher in question is not receiving retirement benefits out of the ordinary compared to the average worker. What do you think the average worker in a comparable job receives in retirement pay and benefits?

It's a hard question to answer because of so many variables.

How many people have full-time jobs that only require them to work about 9 months of the year with summers off and several weeks off during the school year?

How much is the job security enjoyed by teachers worth? How many teachers will ever face the white collar job losses being implemented by United Technologies in East Hartford and Middletown this week?

How many people will receive 80% of their highest salary in retirement pay after 40 years?

Is the teacher also eligible to receive Social Security Retirement Retirement Income?

Will the teacher also receive lifetime health insurance, dental insurance and other benefits as part of the overall retirement benefit?

Answer some Of your questions.
Teachers also don’t get windfall salaries, bonuses, performance raises for hitting targets.

I get a 15% bonus, stock options, career movement and performance raises every year. no one gets rich being a teacher.

They are permanently in a middle class range and have no ability to break out, go somewhere else aa higher salary. They make that deal for long term security and the lifestyle.


On the 9-month thing.You are paying teachers to teach. It is not by the day, rather, for their performance as a teacher. It is irrelevant what days they have off or on.

Also, teachers don’t pay into social security. They get no credits for years as a teacher.

 

[Exit 4]

State Police union will never agree to a new way to calculate pension.

It’s this power over the “negotiation” that makes unions for public service legalized extortion. Government and the tax payer have one lever to pull in this game and that is to understaff and that’s what we doing now. Some game.

Union labor at hotel or airline or mining operation etc all have market forces curbing abusive tactics. No such balance for governments except people voting with their feet.
When the pension bomb explodes the wealthy will already be gone leaving Joe lower middle class with the burden.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Actually, having a 401k vs a pension is liberating as you are able to change jobs with no impact to your retirement. When pensions were common in the private sector, many people stayed at jobs they hated because of their pension. I’d bet there are plenty of state employees that hate their job, but are sticking it out due to their pension.

Based on the history of pension problems, I advise friends to not count on their pension as their only source of income and they should be saving and investing as well to fund their retirement. Unfortunately, the pension obligations of many states are not sustainable and they will have to be restructured. I think politicians are doing retirees a disservice by not admitting to the problem now to allow retirees to plan for the future.

What you said is very true. 401k is portable and yes, pensions keep you tied to a company.

Private company pensions are at risk. Hedge funds love to shed the obligations in bankruptcy.

You will never get a reduced payout on a public pension. Literally, states can just raise taxes, allocate, or borrow to pay the pension. Smart? No.
But that is an option.

I don’t like the obligation, it my issue is with the managers of the state who didn’t adequately fund it. Why? This hole isnt anything that couldn’t be predicted.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Btw, complicated issue and there are merits to what a lot of people have to say about state pensions.

Very hard issue to tackle. I blame the previous administrations going back to the 1980s that failed to plan for this.

 

[UConnJim]

Answer some Of your questions.
Teachers also don’t get windfall salaries, bonuses, performance raises for hitting targets.

I get a 15% bonus, stock options, career movement and performance raises every year. no one gets rich being a teacher.

They are permanently in a middle class range and have no ability to break out, go somewhere else aa higher salary. They make that deal for long term security and the lifestyle.


On the 9-month thing.You are paying teachers to teach. It is not by the day, rather, for their performance as a teacher. It is irrelevant what days they have off or on.

Also, teachers don’t pay into social security. They get no credits for years as a teacher.

Here’s how teachers are becoming milllionaires. The value of a $70k per year pension is over $1 million. If they are getting retiree health care, that adds hundreds of thousands of dollars to that value.

 

[Exit 4]

Here’s how teachers are becoming milllionaires. The value of a $70k per year pension is over $1 million. If they are getting retiree health care, that adds hundreds of thousands of dollars to that value.

And many are taking that lofty retirement out of state because of lower cost of living! #Economic drain

 

[UConnJim]

What you said is very true. 401k is portable and yes, pensions keep you tied to a company.

Private company pensions are at risk. Hedge funds love to shed the obligations in bankruptcy.

You will never get a reduced payout on a public pension. Literally, states can just raise taxes, allocate, or borrow to pay the pension. Smart? No.
But that is an option.

I don’t like the obligation, it my issue is with the managers of the state who didn’t adequately fund it. Why? This hole isnt anything that couldn’t be predicted.

The vast majority of pensions that failed had nothing to do with hedge funds, but everything to do with business failure. The biggest pension failures were in the steel industry and airlines.

The bottom line is state pensions in many cities and states need to be restructured and the longer they wait, the uglier it will be for retirees.

 

[billybud]

I started buying mutual funds monthly as an automatic pay deduction back in 1980 when the dow was in the mid 800's....I had a reinvestment option so that nothing was ever cashed out.

Most of us do not invest young enough because who thinks that far ahead in their 20's? But early investment is the multiplier.

 

[JohnFSilver]

I started buying mutual funds monthly as an automatic pay deduction back in 1980 when the dow was in the mid 800's....I had a reinvestment option so that nothing was ever cashed out.

Most of us do not invest young enough because who thinks that far ahead in their 20's? But early investment is the multiplier.

I think we gotta be careful about the explosive gains of the last 40 years.

Technology has disrupted the stock market. We have much easier access to stock. That influx of capital has absolutely helped with captail appreciation. There is more money available to buy, which by default raises price.

What is the next disrupter that can give appreciation like tech stocks of the last 20 years? That and the banks have kicked ass (because the government saved them). I worry about GE, UTC (Raytheon) and other industrials. Consumer Discretionary is also a concern long term for me. I think Amazon is swallowing the world whole.

Also, as a matter of public policy, because everyone in the country is invested in the stock market the market takes on an outsized place in our policy. People hate seeing the natural economic cycle for businesses and we make short term decisions to prop up the market. Why? Because people's 401ks are vested in it.

The government intervention in the stock market through massive stimulus can't last forever. Can easy money and low fed rates last forever? Eventually, we get runaway inflation. Right?

I guess Paul Krugman would say I am crazy as long as the dollar is a fiat currency. But what is the upper limit of debt-to-GDP and how much can we hold?

I am conflicted here in many ways.

 

[BlueDogs]

It’s this power over the “negotiation” that makes unions for public service legalized extortion. Government and the tax payer have one lever to pull in this game and that is to understaff and that’s what we doing now. Some game.

Union labor at hotel or airline or mining operation etc all have market forces curbing abusive tactics. No such balance for governments except people voting with their feet.
When the pension bomb explodes the wealthy will already be gone leaving Joe lower middle class with the burden.

It’s actually worse than that because of mandated arbitration. Even if you vote everybody out, the system requires binding arbitration resulting in an unelected arbitrator making decisions which bind citizens with no say or ability to reject the award. It’s wholly out of control.

 

[Watchdog]

BTW, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the state's pension fund invested in the stock market?

Who knows? It ought to be, but look how poorly UConn's endowment has grown compared to other schools.
Is that a function of low levels of giving by alums or poor investments? Could be both.

As a comparison, UConn's endowment is valued currently at $460 Million while Hillsdale College, a small liberal arts college with 1500 students, in Michigan, has an endowment valued at $528 Million.

As for the state, does anyone know the current levels of funding of the pension obligations and how well the pension investments are doing?

 

[JohnFSilver]

Who knows? It ought to be, but look how poorly UConn's endowment has grown compared to other schools.
Is that a function of low levels of giving by alums or poor investments? Could be both.

As a comparison, UConn's endowment is valued currently at $460 Million while Hillsdale College, a small liberal arts college with 1500 students, in Michigan, has an endowment valued at $528 Million.

As for the state, does anyone know the current levels of funding of the pension obligations and how well the pension investments are doing?

No idea why UConns endowment is still less than $500M. They have tried a lot of fundraising over the years. CT has a weird political class that hates the fact that that money is not controlled by politicos.

 

[noeynox]

Legacy employees are contributing on the order of 7% of pay, not nearly enough to reduce the huge liability at 80% of highest pay (which includes OT for public safety) for 20+ years of retirement. A 100k employee will net 80K a year which is $1.6 Million over 20 years, before healthcare benefits.

During negotiations state needs to try and get OT pay out of the calculations. State Police will be the loudest against this. Very few 100k employees are going to be drawing 80k pensions, and almost none after 20 years. After 20 years you are guaranteed 50% of the average of your highest 3 years. 2 percent for each additional year of service past your 20. This IS ONLY your hazardous duty employees which are a fraction of the state work force, and only Tier 1, 2, and 2A, have that current set up. Tier 3 and 4, have different arrangements.

Sadly many people take what you posted as the truth for every employee making 100k, they're going to retire after 20 years and make 80k. You couldn't even work that many overtime hours to pull it off.

Professors and judges on the other hand, though not as many take home some VERY handsome amounts for less than 20 years, in the case of judges. MUCH LESS.

 

[Adios]

Pensions will be useless when the world depegs the USD as the global reserve currency. Will be lucky to buy a loaf of bread.

 

[Watchdog]

If she was doing this in the private sector you’d be cheering her. She worked at a job for 40 years and I’d assume has one, but most likely two MAs given that salary. She contributed to the teacher retirement fund for 40 years. Teachers do not receive social security. Good luck recruiting/retaining teachers without the protection of a union. I assume you’d probably like to privatize education and have children attend Chuck E. Cheese Elementary School. Who exactly pays for that? What do you care, you’re in your 60s and done with children! Screw em!

President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, a much revered "progressive" president, opposed government unions engaging in or supporting strikes.

What FDR really said about public employee unions

I know some conservatives have used a quote by President Franklin D. Roosevelt as “proof” that even FDR was opposed to public employee unions, but let’s take a look at the full co…

bloggingblue.com

Roosevelt's thoughts on strikes: "Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that “under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government.”

It seems likely he didn't foresee another issue that has become significant over the years: The unions put their money behind one political party and work in the campaigns to get them elected. They then negotiate with that party for pay and benefits. That party in turn "takes care of" the unions and the cycle repeats.The basic reason is broadly evident today.

 

[noeynox]

The state needs to adequately fund its pension obligations. The deal isn’t as good now as it was so many years ago.

And, should OT be calculated? And how are the earnings calculated? We can look at that, but that has to be collectively bargained. State Police union will never agree to a new way to calculate pension.

Your one of the few who posts on this topic who seems to have a grasp on things.

 

[Exit 4]

No idea why UConns endowment is still less than $500M. They have tried a lot of fundraising over the years. CT has a weird political class that hates the fact that that money is not controlled by politicos.

Very little of the New England/NY monied class with deep pockets studied at UConn, that is the first issue. The second issue, its a state institution and endowing the state seems less attractive to thrifty Northeasterners.

 

[Watchdog]

Teachers and janitors make too much? God forbid they have a degree of security in their life.

Teachers are either important or not. The state job is either important and necessary or not. If it is necessary, pay the people. Americans have taken it on the chin with regard to 401ks and health care for the last 20 years.

Pensions keep people in jobs and allow them security late in life. That allows them to leave the workforce and not have to work until death.

"Pensions keep people in jobs and allow them security late in life. That allows them to leave the workforce and not have to work until death."

As Margaret Thatcher famously said about socialism: "The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of everyone else's money".

We might say the same thing about pension obligations. A significant number of states are on an inevitable path to bankruptcy as a result of overly generous pension obligations, many of which have been incurred as an easy means to ensure unions won't strike. At least 21 states are underfunded by over 30% on their pension obligations.

Take Illinois, for example:

https://money.usnews.com/investing/news/articles/2019-12-04/illinois-unfunded-pension-liability-rises-to-1373-billion

"Illinois spends as much on pensions as it does on welfare and public protection (that is, police and firefighters) combined, and nearly half of its education appropriations go toward teacher pensions. If the state’s pension plans reach insolvency, pensions could become its single biggest cost."

Who will pay? We can't print money forever even though our politicians think it's possible for as long as they want to stay in office and kick the liability down the road.

 

[UConnJim]

No idea why UConns endowment is still less than $500M. They have tried a lot of fundraising over the years. CT has a weird political class that hates the fact that that money is not controlled by politicos.

You have the UConn Foundation wrong. It is a political organization. In the mid 90s, when the endowment was tiny, they reached out to alums in the investment industry to jump start investing and they did a great job. I think one year, they had one of the best endowment returns among all colleges. I'm not sure what happened after than time, but if you look at the UConn Foundation today, the board is now 31 members with 9 ex-officio members. The board is made up of investment people as well as doctors, lawyers, business people, a basketball player. And, the CIO role is outsourced. In comparison, Harvard has 12 board members and 4 ex-officio members. Ten of the 12 board members are investment heavyweights. Harvard has a CIO. Who do you think is going to do a better job?

One other point on the endowment. The endowment does provide a relatively high level of support to the university compared to other schools, but I'm not sure if that is because a large amount of donations are slated for current year vs. going into the endowment. In FY 2019, UConn had an endowment of $462 million, donations of $71.4 million, and provided $44.4 million of support to the university.

 

[Watchdog]

Pensions will be useless when the world depegs the USD as the global reserve currency. Will be lucky to buy a loaf of bread.

It would be like Germany in the 20's, or Venezuela today.
China was reportedly taking actions to undercut the dollar a few years ago but may have backed off because if the dollar collapsed so would other currencies and even China couldn't survive that.

 

[JohnFSilver]

You have the UConn Foundation wrong. It is a political organization. In the mid 90s, when the endowment was tiny, they reached out to alums in the investment industry to jump start investing and they did a great job. I think one year, they had one of the best endowment returns among all colleges. I'm not sure what happened after than time, but if you look at the UConn Foundation today, the board is now 31 members with 9 ex-officio members. The board is made up of investment people as well as doctors, lawyers, business people, a basketball player. And, the CIO role is outsourced. In comparison, Harvard has 12 board members and 4 ex-officio members. Ten of the 12 board members are investm
ent heavyweights. Harvard has a CIO. Who do you think is going to do a better job?

One other point on the endowment. The endowment does provide a relatively high level of support to the university compared to other schools, but I'm not sure if that is because a large amount of donations are slated for current year vs. going into the endowment. In FY 2019, UConn had an endowment of $462 million, donations of $71.4 million, and provided $44.4 million of support to the university.

When i say politicos, there are people in government and the legislature that want full transparency of money. They want to spend it.

I don't know if the board is doing well or not. i just look at the top line number. I like the people at the foundation a lot and almost worked there on multiple occasions. I am for whatever gets the Foundation more money and am in huge agreement with where school is going. Why the school doesn't have a billion? I don't have any clue on the challenges of fundraising at a higher ed in the Northeast. When I engage, it is almost exclusively on networking, which I am a big proponent of. UConn grads should help get UConn grads opportunities.

 

[JohnFSilver]

It would be like Germany in the 20's, or Venezuela today.
China was reportedly taking actions to undercut the dollar a few years ago but may have backed off because if the dollar collapsed so would other currencies and even China couldn't survive that.

Reading Krugman's latest book and he talks about a lot of powerful fiat currency like the dollar, euro, pound, being immune to run away inflation. The scenario where the world dumps dollars and goes to the Euro or something else to peg their currency would scare me though. I guess the dollars true worth is only the paper it is printed on?