Which women's basketball prospect could be the next...

[Sluconn Husky]

The great players aren't comparable to anyone. They blaze their own trail.

Food for thought. Stop comparing everyone to Ionescu. Sure she's great, and I'm not trying to knock her, but the triple double thing has become larger than her. She started as a freshmen at a good program that had a free wheeling style.

The same could be argued of Magic Johnson but that doesn't take away from his greatness. Ionescu was a tremendous player regardless.

 

[Alydar]

Skylar is one of the two or three best-known women's basketball players today. She made three final fours and has twice been first team All-WNBA as a pro.

Consider the source, but to me Skylar is clearly the defining college pg of the 2010s. Jefferson won more but was overshadowed by Stewie and the overall team dominance of UConn.

UConn is always stacked with great talent top to bottom and plays team basketball which makes it harder for great individuals to stand out.

Maybe you define "defining college pg" differently but I would think winning would be part of the equation.

one of the two or three best-known women's basketball players today

Name recognition = "defining college pg"???????????? Come on.

Jefferson won more but was overshadowed by Stewie and the overall team dominance of UConn.

Yeah right. Being on a weaker team increases your status as a "defining college pg"? So I guess that if Diggins were to have played for say Providence, she would have been even better?

Now if you want to define "defining college pg" as having the most Twitter followers .... maybe.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Had she gone elsewhere (UConn, SC, Baylor, ND) she probably would have never had a triple double

How can you possibly make a definitive statement like that? She accumulated 26 at one school, but if she'd chosen another school she would have had zero? That seems extremely unlikely to me.

 

[hoopsfan22]

How can you possibly make a definitive statement like that? She accumulated 26 at one school, but if she'd chosen another school she would have had zero? That seems extremely unlikely to me.

Think of all the great players to play at UConn over the last 25 years. We've had a grand total of five triple doubles: Laura Lishness way back in 1989, 2013 (Stef), 2014 (KML), 2015 (Kiah), and 2016 (Gabby). Do you think Taurasi, Bird, Moore, Stewart, et al simply weren't good enough to ever get a single triple double, or was it by design?

 

[nwhoopfan]

Think of all the great players to play at UConn over the last 25 years. We've had a grand total of five triple doubles: Laura Lishness way back in 1989, 2013 (Stef), 2014 (KML), 2015 (Kiah), and 2016 (Gabby). Do you think Taurasi, Bird, Moore, Stewart, et al simply weren't good enough to ever get a single triple double, or was it by design?

Somewhere between 26 and 0 lies a lot of ground. I find it almost impossible to believe that Ionescu wouldn't have gotten a single triple double if she'd gone elsewhere, regardless of which school.

 

[Carnac]

Help me. What year was Diggins' championship?

That’s the one piece of hardware missing from her Notre Dame trophy case.

 

[HuskylnSC]

How can you possibly make a definitive statement like that? She accumulated 26 at one school, but if she'd chosen another school she would have had zero? That seems extremely unlikely to me.

I think the zero might not be accurate but is appropriate to bring perspective into the inflated minutes she played. At UConn she probably would have had fewer minutes per game providing a smaller window for triple doubles. Also be aware that her rebounding prowess would have been severely limited in that she would have fewer opportunities to track down the long rebound from missed 3's.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I think the zero might not be accurate but is appropriate to bring perspective into the inflated minutes she played. At UConn she probably would have had fewer minutes per game providing a smaller window for triple doubles. Also be aware that her rebounding prowess would have been severely limited in that she would have fewer opportunities to track down the long rebound from missed 3's.

The inflated minutes fallacy again? Dangerfield, Williams and Walker all played more mpg than Ionescu this last season.

2 seasons ago Ionescu played about 1 mpg more than Dangerfield and 2-2.5 mpg more than Collier and Samuelson. Damn, Ionescu must've had a really productive 1 or 2 extra minutes on the floor to totally inflate her numbers eh?!

So, when is this fallacy gonna end? Never maybe...

 

[Alydar]

I think the zero might not be accurate but is appropriate to bring perspective into the inflated minutes she played. At UConn she probably would have had fewer minutes per game providing a smaller window for triple doubles. Also be aware that her rebounding prowess would have been severely limited in that she would have fewer opportunities to track down the long rebound from missed 3's.

The only problem I see with TD's is double digit points. That may have been a big deal when scores rarely went over 50 but it just doesn't measure up like 10 rbs or 10 assists.
I haven't access to stats but I wouldn't be surprised if TD's were tied to the No. of possessions a team gets. More opportunities to rebound and assist must be a factor. But Ionescu's record-shattering career is truly amazing.

 

[Mdoggie]

Skylar is one of the two or three best-known women's basketball players today. She made three final fours and has twice been first team All-WNBA as a pro.

Consider the source, but to me Skylar is clearly the defining college pg of the 2010s. Jefferson won more but was overshadowed by Stewie and the overall team dominance of UConn.

UConn is always stacked with great talent top to bottom and plays team basketball which makes it harder for great individuals to stand out.

Definitely best known to ND fans. I would argue that DT, Candace Parker and Sue Bird are probably known by even the casual fan more than Diggins.

 

[EdSaid]

How can you possibly make a definitive statement like that? She accumulated 26 at one school, but if she'd chosen another school she would have had zero? That seems extremely unlikely to me.

In Muffett's 33 years there were 5 triple-doubles at ND, Kim Mulkey's 19 years at Baylor 6 Triple-doubles, Vanderveer's 34 years at Stanford 8 Triple doubles, Pat Summitt 2 triple-doubles, and 5 at UConn during Geno's time. Its by design. Those five coaches account for 26 NC.

Ionescu had 1 triple-double in her career against a top 10 team. That was against Stanford late in the season.

Your # 1, if she is up high, is transitioning back to play defense. Never thinking about a rebound. Team defense. Not giving easy points in transition is good defense. good defense wins championships.

I do not dislike Ionescu. I think she is a great player. She is good for women's basketball. Great players are never about stats. The media/ESPN took the triple-double thing and ran with it.

I don't believe she will have triple-doubles in the WNBA. And, I will say it again, she would trade them all for a National Championship.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Vanderveer's 34 years at Stanford 8 Triple doubles

And those were all by one player, Nicole Powell. Ionescu smashed her Pac 12 record during her soph season. Your point that triple doubles are rare stands, but Ionescu is fairly unique in her ability to score, get assists, and rebound.

How about this? How many former UConn stars would've amassed 26 triple doubles if they had played for Graves at Oregon (I know most of them played before he was there, but never mind that)? I would guess none of them.

And what does Ionescu only having one triple double against a top 10 team have to do with anything? NOBODY plays games exclusively against top 10 teams. UConn's conference games during the AAC era...well I don't even need to say it.

edit--I took a quick peak at stats, the vast majority of Ionescu's rebounds were defensive, not offensive, so your point about the PG getting back on D is irrelevant.

 

[HuskylnSC]

The inflated minutes fallacy again? Dangerfield, Williams and Walker all played more mpg than Ionescu this last season.

2 seasons ago Ionescu played about 1 mpg more than Dangerfield and 2-2.5 mpg more than Collier and Samuelson. Damn, Ionescu must've had a really productive 1 or 2 extra minutes on the floor to totally inflate her numbers eh?!

So, when is this fallacy gonna end? Never maybe...

The stats typically quoted to substantiate Sabrina as one of the greatest are stats over her four year career. To validate your claim using two year stats is to deviate from the narrative and therefore inconsequential to the discussion. Perhaps instead of general comment about production ("Damn, Ionescu must've had a really productive 1 or 2 extra minutes ...") an analysis of the players' performance would have vindicated your claim.

 

[Jmsdawg]

Madison Booker, she is class of 2023 and has already been offered by MSST. 6-1 and still growing. I saw some videos of her play for last season and she is fearless, strong, and has a decent shot. She is a sleeper for now, but certainly one to watch.

 

[nwhoopfan]

The stats typically quoted to substantiate Sabrina as one of the greatest are stats over her four year career. To validate your claim using two year stats is to deviate from the narrative and therefore inconsequential to the discussion. Perhaps instead of general comment about production ("Damn, Ionescu must've had a really productive 1 or 2 extra minutes ...") an analysis of the players' performance would have vindicated your claim.

What are you talking about? Two years is half of her career. That is very statistically significant. Your response...there's nothing there really. Try again.

 

[HuskylnSC]

What are you talking about? Two years is half of her career. That is very statistically significant. Your response...there's nothing there really. Try again.

It's obvious you don't understand simple data analysis. Comparative totals must be for the same time period. Two years is half a career. I'm glad you understand that. My statements were for a full career. I hope you can understand the bad logic of your statements.

 

[nwhoopfan]

It's obvious you don't understand simple data analysis. Comparative totals must be for the same time period. Two years is half a career. I'm glad you understand that. My statements were for a full career. I hope you can understand the bad logic of your statements.

I apologize for my previous response to you, it was a bit rude.

Here's where I'm coming from. The last 2 seasons I've seen numerous complaints on the BY about Ionescu's amount of playing time. I pointed out that several UConn starters were playing approx. the same number of minutes both seasons. If it wasn't excessive for UConn, then it wasn't excessive for Oregon either. I'm not sure if the complaints about her minutes were the same during her Fr. and Soph seasons. Her minutes were fairly consistent throughout her career.

 

[Alydar]

I apologize for my previous response to you, it was a bit rude.

Here's where I'm coming from. The last 2 seasons I've seen numerous complaints on the BY about Ionescu's amount of playing time. I pointed out that several UConn starters were playing approx. the same number of minutes both seasons. If it wasn't excessive for UConn, then it wasn't excessive for Oregon either. I'm not sure if the complaints about her minutes were the same during her Fr. and Soph seasons. Her minutes were fairly consistent throughout her career.

I'm not trying to diminish Ionescu but maybe you would understand UConn fans' lack of awe better this way. There was a game where Stewart was 1 assist from a TD with a few minutes left in the 3rd period. She sat because the lead was large. KLS had made 10 consecutive 3's but sat the 4th period. Most other teams let their players stay in when that sort of thing has a chance of happening. I also remember all the games where Paris was short a couple pts or rbs from a DD and would stay in the game till the end even though Okl had a 30 point lead.

Other team's stars set records. UConn teams just win.

 

[newfrontier]

The same could be argued of Magic Johnson but that doesn't take away from his greatness. Ionescu was a tremendous player regardless.

Sabrina like Magic Johnson? He won a National Championship. He may have won a second if he had played more than just 2 seasons in college. Yes, I can speculate on this, just as others speculate on Sabrina even getting 1, which she never did.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Sabrina like Magic Johnson? He won a National Championship. He may have won a second if he had played more than just 2 seasons in college. Yes, I can speculate on this, just as others speculate on Sabrina even getting 1, which she never did.

I was comparing Johnson's stats on a "free-wheeling" team to Ionescu doing the same, not really thinking of Magic's college years. I don't know what a lack of a national title has to do with a player's ability though. Saniya Chong won three titles and only lost two games in four seasons but I don't rate her as quite the player Ionescu was.

 

[HuskylnSC]

I apologize for my previous response to you, it was a bit rude.

Here's where I'm coming from. The last 2 seasons I've seen numerous complaints on the BY about Ionescu's amount of playing time. I pointed out that several UConn starters were playing approx. the same number of minutes both seasons. If it wasn't excessive for UConn, then it wasn't excessive for Oregon either. I'm not sure if the complaints about her minutes were the same during her Fr. and Soph seasons. Her minutes were fairly consistent throughout her career.

Apology accepted. I didn't think you were rude at all. I admire passion. But you have just made exactly the point. Typically UConn players have fewer minutes in their first two years so their career totals are deflated in comparison to someone who plays 38 minutes a game as a freshman. Would you compare the year totals for one player who averaged 38 minutes a game to a player who average 25 minutes a game. Then claim the 38 minute player was a better performer because the scored more points or averaged more per game. I don't think so. The scenario is the same to say a player that played 4000 minutes is a better player than a player who played 3200 minutes because they scored more total points is my issue. One cannot make that claim based on career totals. Not to say Sabrina is a great college player because she was.

 

[EdSaid]

And those were all by one player, Nicole Powell. Ionescu smashed her Pac 12 record during her soph season. Your point that triple doubles are rare stands, but Ionescu is fairly unique in her ability to score, get assists, and rebound.

How about this? How many former UConn stars would've amassed 26 triple doubles if they had played for Graves at Oregon (I know most of them played before he was there, but never mind that)? I would guess none of them.

And what does Ionescu only having one triple double against a top 10 team have to do with anything? NOBODY plays games exclusively against top 10 teams. UConn's conference games during the AAC era...well I don't even need to say it.

edit--I took a quick peak at stats, the vast majority of Ionescu's rebounds were defensive, not offensive, so your point about the PG getting back on D is irrelevant.

I knew there was something I wanted to respond to, but couldn't find it. The debater from the Great Northwest, your up. Powell only had 6 of the 8 Stanford 3-2's. I don't but if you say Ionescu's rebounds were weighted defensively, you get that point.

You asked,
"How many former UConn stars would've amassed 26 triple doubles if they had played for Graves at Oregon"

Sue Bird
Diana Taurasi
Jen Rizzotti
Maya Moore
Moriah Jefferson
Brianna Stewart
Nykesha Sales
Gabby Williams
Shea Ralph
Napheesa Collier
Kia Nurse
Kia Stokes
Katie Lou
Crystal Dangerfield,
Svetlana Abrosimova
Swin Cash
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis
Christyn Williams

Take your pick, any or all of them could have done it. Scoring is not an issue for any of them. They all have great ball skills and are great passers, total unselfish team players. Rebounds find them. All UConn players will tell you that stats don't mean anything at UConn. Geno could care less about individual stats. He takes them out when he takes them out. Freshmen don't play many minutes.

Consider this:
Season Assist Opp +/-
Uconn 19-20 599 357 +242
18-19 748 433 +315
17-18 843 385 +458
16-17 863 387 +476


Oregon 19-20 696 423 +273
18-19 717 518 +199
17-18 727 515 +212
16-17 611 502 +109

Its tough to know what Geno thinks are important stat wise, but I think he considers assist differential.
UConn's offensive bread and butter is cuts/pick and rolls/blocks, a nice pass and a high percentage easy shot. Assists do not come from one person, they come from any and all. On defense they switch and double team down low and try to prevent the easy shot. Simple in theory, hard to do. You need great athletes.

UConn averaged about 100 more assists per year (3 a game could make a difference). The +/- is huge. Fewer opponent assists means fewer easy baskets. Make them take the tough shot. I know Pac 12 vs AAC. I'll give you a margin of error for that.

 

[Carnac]

For the first time I sense what some of you have alluded; a decided Anti-Uconn bias from the author,

Which women's basketball prospect could be the next Sabrina Ionescu?

Which women's college basketball prospects have skill sets reminiscent of those of Sabrina Ionescu, Brittney Griner or Skylar Diggins-Smith?

www.espn.com

UConn is seldom the "flavor of the month" with the writers at ESPN. It's been that way for a while.

 

[nwhoopfan]

You asked,
"How many former UConn stars would've amassed 26 triple doubles if they had played for Graves at Oregon"

Sue Bird
Diana Taurasi
Jen Rizzotti
Maya Moore
Moriah Jefferson
Brianna Stewart
Nykesha Sales
Gabby Williams
Shea Ralph
Napheesa Collier
Kia Nurse
Kia Stokes
Katie Lou
Crystal Dangerfield,
Svetlana Abrosimova
Swin Cash
Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis
Christyn Williams

I can't take you seriously. All of those players were skilled and talented. But putting them into an Oregon jersey wouldn't have transformed them into triple double machines. I could go all thru the list, but for starters Bird, Jefferson and Dangerfield were not strong rebounders (all 3 averaged less than 3 rpg for their careers). I doubt all 3 of them combined hit double figures in rebounding 26 times. There's just no way possible any one of them would've pulled that off.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Apology accepted. I didn't think you were rude at all. I admire passion. But you have just made exactly the point. Typically UConn players have fewer minutes in their first two years so their career totals are deflated in comparison to someone who plays 38 minutes a game as a freshman. Would you compare the year totals for one player who averaged 38 minutes a game to a player who average 25 minutes a game. Then claim the 38 minute player was a better performer because the scored more points or averaged more per game. I don't think so. The scenario is the same to say a player that played 4000 minutes is a better player than a player who played 3200 minutes because they scored more total points is my issue. One cannot make that claim based on career totals. Not to say Sabrina is a great college player because she was.

I feel like we're having 2 different conversations. I wasn't trying to establish Ionescu's place among the all time best college players. Of course playing big minutes early on will lead to bigger totals in career stats. I really only noticed frequent mentions of her minutes on the BY during her Jr. and Sr. season, that's why I was addressing that specifically. Certainly hitting the 2000/1000/1000 mark was only possible with playing a lot right from the beginning of her career. She had 16 triple doubles combined in her Jr. and Sr. seasons, so she still would've set that record even if she hadn't played as much early on.