Which team has the most talented roster in terms of top 8 players? 25-26 edition

[cancontent]

Beautiful shot! I’m a UConn fan, maybe that’s why I haven’t heard of her. What was her injury, and what year is she?

Tore her ACL. Believe she's using her COVID year.

 

[Bone Dog]

Tore her ACL. Believe she's using her COVID year.

Leger-Walker is a clever passer and shooter, and used to have a good first step. A lot depends on how much of that foot speed she can recover in rehab. If she’s lost a step, the rest of her game will suffer from it. But if she comes back at full speed she can add a lot to UCLA. I think of her by contrast to Von Oelhoffen, who is a similar physical type. Leger-Walker was a better shooter and passer.

 

[TC22]

I always appreciate a good spreadsheet so kudos to you. I don't think I would call Joyce Edwards a "center" and I think Watkins will start there. I also think Tessa Johnson has been viewed more as a PG so her playing small forward is probably also a quibble. I think the SC starting 5 will be Watkins, Edwards, Kitts, Johnson and Latson. I suspect Maryam Dauda at 6'5" and a multiple transfer player to get into the rotation. Most teams really try to deploy a top 9 vs. 8 even at the elite level. Depending on the matchups, only 8 may get the majority of the minutes but that will change game to game, opponent to opponent.

I really am not sure what to think of Caroline Ducharme's role as so much depends on her health. What I do know is Kayleigh Heckel came here to play point guard and will be involved in the top 8 rotation, particularly if KK struggles with her 3 pt shooting again. I expect Geno to fully deploy a 9/10 person rotation as he has bench depth who can create their own shots and play defense. He has done this before when he had talent as deep as this years squad.

UCLA has talent but Cori has always struggled to get her teams to improve throughout the year. What they show in November is usually what they are in March. Their point guard situation is particularly concerning as Kiki is the only real player who can pass. When we shut down her capability to pass into the post, Betts struggled. As good as I know Kneepkens is and as CLW was, I am not quite sure how they fit into the UCLA scheme. Not sure if there are enough shots to go around.

Last, I think you left out Iyanna Moore at Vandy. She will be a starter on that team she was their 3rd leading scorer this year so she is definitely in their top 8.

But like I said overall, your presentation to provoke thought and discussion was AWESOME. Save this for November to continue the discussion.

Well played, my friend, well played.

Tessa is a 2/3 and can play PG when needed. She primarily backed up Bree Hall at the 3 and PaoPao at the 2. I don’t see any way she doesn’t start because she is our best 3 pt shooter. Not sure Watkins will be ready to “start” at the beginning of the year. I do think Okot or Miriam will be our starting C at the beginning of the year. IDK what Dawn will do about Chloe/Edwards.I think the starting line-up will be Kitts, Johnson, Johnson, Latson and ?.

 

[Bone Dog]

Tessa is a 2/3 and can play PG when needed. She primarily backed up Bree Hall at the 3 and PaoPao at the 2. I don’t see any way she doesn’t start because she is our best 3 pt shooter. Not sure Watkins will be ready to “start” at the beginning of the year. I do think Okot or Miriam will be our starting C at the beginning of the year. IDK what Dawn will do about Chloe/Edwards.I think the starting line-up will be Kitts, Johnson, Johnson, Latson and ?.

Has there been any news about Ashlyn? I assumed from the timing of the injury that she’d be ready by January, if not sooner. Someone else hinted that she’d be out until somewhat later, but I haven’t seen any confirmation.

I think you’re right about Tessa starting. It’s Chloe who’s the puzzle for me. She is a very good offensive player and a clever rebounder and defender. But last season, with Ashlyn sidelined, she ended up matched up against much stronger players in some big games. I’ll be surprised if Dawn repeats that next season. Rather than platoon her with Joyce, she might play them together more, at least until Watkins is ready.

Put Chloe at the 3 in Bree’s old spot and she gains some size at the expense of speed. This would allow for a starting lineup of

• Raven
• Latson
• Tessa at the 3,
• Joyce at the 4 and
• Okot/Dauda platooning at the 5.

Then Chloe becomes the 6 woman who subs at the 3 or the 4 situationally. When Ashlyn returns she becomes the 4/5 sub. Maddy subs for Raven and the freshmen fill in where needed. My guess is if Ashlyn regains 100% of her form, she’ll supplant Okot/Dauda as the starting 5.

I think Ashlyn and Joyce will be a very formidable frontcourt if they’re both healthy. It’s hard for me to picture Dawn not giving them a lot of minutes together.

 

[jdote33]

I know it's u18 but does UCLA have an incoming 6'3 skilled point forward with skills. Is this girl about to be Nikas running mate

 

[Bone Dog]

This thread has raised a question for me about Timea Gardiner. She ought to be a key member of the UCLA lineup next season, maybe even a starter. But somehow she's only been a role player, not a difference maker. Is there something lacking in her skill set?

She was a very good player at OSU and then transferred to UCLA. Why didn't she have more of an impact? I guess part of the issue is that OSU was already a very good team and quite comparable to the UCLA team she transferred into. So, maybe there wasn't enough of a difference for her to breakout above what she'd already done. In some respects, her skills are similar to Sarah Strong's, at least on offense. She's got a great perimeter shooting game and was a good rebounder at OSU. She may be a bit slow-footed compared to Sarah and isn't really a transition threat. But these aspects of her game could have been developed.

If I want to understand why UCLA's roster last season fizzled out so badly in the Final Four, I have a feeling Timea is like the canary in the coal mine. Next season, perhaps with the departure of Barker, she can have that larger role. Lauren did everything she could to carry this team. If they're going to go further next season, I can't help but think it will rest on the shoulders of the rest of the team, and especially Timea.

 

[jake0414]

This thread has raised a question for me about Timea Gardiner. She ought to be a key member of the UCLA lineup next season, maybe even a starter. But somehow she's only been a role player, not a difference maker. Is there something lacking in her skill set?

She was a very good player at OSU and then transferred to UCLA. Why didn't she have more of an impact? I guess part of the issue is that OSU was already a very good team and quite comparable to the UCLA team she transferred into. So, maybe there wasn't enough of a difference for her to breakout above what she'd already done. In some respects, her skills are similar to Sarah Strong's, at least on offense. She's got a great perimeter shooting game and was a good rebounder at OSU. She may be a bit slow-footed compared to Sarah and isn't really a transition threat. But these aspects of her game could have been developed.

If I want to understand why UCLA's roster last season fizzled out so badly in the Final Four, I have a feeling Timea is like the canary in the coal mine. Next season, perhaps with the departure of Barker, she can have that larger role. Lauren did everything she could to carry this team. If they're going to go further next season, I can't help but think it will rest on the shoulders of the rest of the team, and especially Timea.

Timea Gardiner lacked lateral quickness last season. I don’t know if she had similar defensive limitations her sophomore year at Oregon State. She played poorly in the Bruins’ sweet sixteen win versus Ole Miss scoring 0 points on 0 attempts, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 2 TOs, 2 PFs in 13 minutes. She gave up several Ole Miss offensive rebounds. Cori Close limited her minutes because of her poor play. Gardiner followed up that performance with a 15 point outing in the Elite 8 win over LSU. Shot 5 for 8 from three point range, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 0 PFs and 0 TOs in 21 minutes. She was key to UCLA regaining a lead in the 2nd quarter after Betts picked up two early fouls and keeping LSU at bay in the second half.

I attended a UCLA practice in late May. Timea did not participate in drills with the team but was working out off to the side with an assistant coach. She had surgery on her lower leg shortly after the season ended and evidently was not 100% while playing last season. Hope she makes a complete recovery and improves her quickness on defense.

BTW, Kiki Rice had shoulder surgery this past spring to repair an injury she sustained prior to the start of last season. She participated in team drills dribbling and shooting exclusively with her left hand.

 

[Bone Dog]

Timea Gardiner lacked lateral quickness last season. I don’t know if she had similar defensive limitations her sophomore year at Oregon State. She played poorly in the Bruins’ sweet sixteen win versus Ole Miss scoring 0 points on 0 attempts, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 2 TOs, 2 PFs in 13 minutes. She gave up several Ole Miss offensive rebounds. Cori Close limited her minutes because of her poor play. Gardiner followed up that performance with a 15 point outing in the Elite 8 win over LSU. Shot 5 for 8 from three point range, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 0 PFs and 0 TOs in 21 minutes. She was key to UCLA regaining a lead in the 2nd quarter after Betts picked up two early fouls and keeping LSU at bay in the second half.

I attended a UCLA practice in late May. Timea did not participate in drills with the team but was working out off to the side with an assistant coach. She had surgery on her lower leg shortly after the season ended and evidently was not 100% while playing last season. Hope she makes a complete recovery and improves her quickness on defense.

BTW, Kiki Rice had shoulder surgery this past spring to repair an injury she sustained prior to the start of last season. She participated in team drills dribbling and shooting exclusively with her left hand.

That's helpful. If Timea had surgery in the offseason, the question will be whether she can come back up to speed by January. This is her last season to make a mark unless she takes a redshirt season. Without her, Sienna will have to be a significant asset, even though I doubt she'll be fully D1 ready this season. And Kneepkens will be the primary (only?) perimeter threat, assuming she is ready to go -- she looked pretty good in the FIBA games.

 

[jdote33]

I get its u18 but I did watch. She's really good.

 

[DefenseBB]

Disagree about UCLA being at the top. That’s either UConn or SC. Last season, I think we pretty much demonstrated that UCLA would have come in second in the Big East and not enough has changed since then. Just kidding… or am I?

Overall, for the 2025-26 Season, I like it as you stated-UConn, SC and UCLA but there is nuance to be considered. UCLA traditionally starts strong and never really evolves and is why they struggle in the NCAAT vs. their seeding. I would say, UCLA would not have come in 2nd in the BE last year as they were good early and we were still finding ourselves (remember that ugly Tennessee game?). I do think want to counter @bballnut90 in that our starting 5 is second behind UCLA but our bench is much better than UCLA's. For example, who backs up Rice at PG? Kneepkens and CLW are not PGs and certainly cannot defend the quicker PGs that exist. UCLA has better experience at the P, PG and even the SG than us but our bench is so much better and deeper. That is not to say UCLA's bench is not good but it is limited in Guard play and elite shooting.

To me, the spreadsheet is a great listing from June 8 but will need to evolve and be iterative as the season progresses. LSU has a lot of new pieces to fit in, so I have them 4th in the SEC, Vandy lost Pierre and was already behind SC/Tex/OK/LSU/TN and Ole Miss so their ranking is way too high/low. Heck, they will struggle with what Kentucky has. I think Duke is currently under-valued in that listing, albeit not by much given their offensive limitations. Although, I do find most Duke fans "highly offensive"....

Like I said, this is a great snapshot to see and assess. I would add the HC at the top as pedigree and experience matter. You can't underestimate Mulkey, whereas we could make a living "shorting" Cori Close, Coach Yo, Kim Barnes Arico, Bill Fennelly and even the Tennessee teams since 2008. Every season will bring about opportunities for someone to break through but given the consistency of the experienced coaches, I am skeptical.

 

[Bone Dog]

…our starting 5 is second behind UCLA but our bench is much better than UCLA's. For example, who backs up Rice at PG? Kneepkens and CLW are not PGs and certainly cannot defend the quicker PGs that exist. UCLA has better experience at the P, PG and even the SG than us but our bench is so much better and deeper. That is not to say UCLA's bench is not good but it is limited in Guard play and elite shooting.

Very well said. I think your distinction between starters and bench depth is especially true if it’s phrased in terms of the traditional positions. Kiki is simply a better PG than KK (or Kayleigh if she starts). I think it’s an open question whether Kneepkens is a better SG than Azzi. As a shooter, she’s been more consistent than Azzi at her peak. If she returns to that form, I’d give her the nod at least on offense. On defense, I think Azzi plays better within a more rigorous team defensive concept. The same caveats apply to Leger-Walker. If she returns to peak form, she could be better than Azzi or Ash. In her case, it may be a bigger if, I suspect, since I saw a bit of Kneepkens’ play on Team USA and she looked pretty good. And in the post, Lauren is simply better than Serah or Jana or Ice as a low-post player. I think that’s unquestionably true. However, Serah has a much more diverse set of offensive skills and runs the floor much better than Lauren. This means that within Geno’s schemes, Serah could turn out to be a more valuable asset. Of course, at PF even if she’s limited to that role, Sarah is simply better than Dugalic or Gardiner on offense and defense. Of course, Geno will not use Sarah in such a limited way and then there’s really no viable matchup for her on UCLA’s roster.

And I think you’re right about the bench comparison. Jaquez is the closest thing to Ash that UCLA has, and she is a really good utility player. But she doesn’t have the same intensity as Ash and isn’t the perimeter shooter Ash is. And after Kiki, Kayleigh outclasses any PG sub on UCLA. At C and PF, Jana Ice and Gandy aren’t any better than Sienna Timea Angela Zania or Amanda, but depth of big bodies is no longer an issue for Geno. Really, I doubt Cori’s front court rotation will go deeper than Sienna and Timea by mid-February just as Geno’s probably won’t go deeper than Jana Ice and Blanca. Maybe Ayanna or Caroline or Morgan can fight their way in to that rotation, but I don’t think we’ll see an 8 deep frontcourt rotation after February.

Of course, the real issue is the rather untraditional style of play Geno used last season. His team had a huge hole in the frontcourt and that should have been decisive. But he saw Sarah’s talent and leveraged it to flip all the matchups. Suddenly you had someone like Lauren trying to guard her on the perimeter. And in the transition game, it ended up being Kiki or Gabriela or Londynn trying to stop Sarah. Geno conceded Lauren’s double-double but got the much better bargain. And it didn’t hurt that Azzi scored 19 in the 1st half and put UConn up 20.

The challenge for Geno is whether he can tweak his smaller lineup now that opposing coaches will have time to prepare for it. He doesn’t need to go small next season, and he may have some of the quickest bigs in Sarah Serah Ayanna Blanca and Morgan, if they’re all healthy. Instead of a quick-small lineup, he may be able to go with a quick-big lineup.

 

[FanInNC]

If Pierre is eligible I think NC State has a real case to be included in the top 15 here. Her and Zoe will form quite a 1-2 combo in Raleigh, it’s a young team but Tilda Trygger and Zam Jones showed some real flashes last year. Preseason id assume Zoe and Pierre are both 1st team all conference. Certainly unknowns when you get into depth pieces, but some high upsides if they can put it together too with Quigley, Samuels, Awou and Lunan.

With the Pierre addition (assuming eligibility) my expectations for State have shifted to being a top 4 seed and hosting NCAA tournament games again.