Which schools from the P5+BigEast need new direction

[DefenseBB]

While reviewing the attendance, I was shaking my head at some schools with how far their programs have fallen and with that I am prompted to ask my fellow BYers a question-Which schools from each of the P5 Conferences + the Big East need to immediately address their WCBB program? To wit:
Big East-Toss up between Georgetown and PC as both are abysmal-preference is PC as at one time they used to be good and due to location proximity to UConn
ACC-With NC gaining Barnhardt, Duke is the most glaring problem, nuf ced….
Big10-Purdue needs to move on from Versyp as once the proud Big10 beacon, now they are irrelevant
Big12-Oklahoma or K-State? Both used to be top of the conference schools, now, not so much. However I will go with Texas Tech as I find Marlene Stollings SO ANNOYING and not able to play a real OOC to make Texas Tech relevant again!
PAC-12: USC is the school that needs a significant commitment from the school. I actually think that Mark Trakh has done a remarkable job in his second stint here but he is not given the resources that other PAC12 schools have.
SEC-The easy choice would be Tennessee but I want to give Harper more time so I am going with LSU who has not achieved anything of note with Nikki Caldwell Fargus and needs to move on from her.

Use what ever criteria you want, but please list it if it is not obvious so we can understand your reasoning.

 

[nwhoopfan]

PAC-12: USC is the school that needs a significant commitment from the school. I actually think that Mark Trakh has done a remarkable job in his second stint here but he is not given the resources that other PAC12 schools have.

I can see that, I might say Washington. Others on this site have said give it more time, but I'm skeptical they are going to turn a corner. It's certainly possible to win there, it's been done by multiple different coaches.

 

[DefenseBB]

I can see that, I might say Washington. Others on this site have said give it more time, but I'm skeptical they are going to turn a corner. It's certainly possible to win there, it's been done by multiple different coaches.

My view of USC is due to their huge success in the 80's and some of the numerous stars they have produced, I am not sure I see overwhelming evidence or history as to viewing UW as PAC12 needing them to awesome as other than that 1 year with Plum, what made them relevant?

 

[nwhoopfan]

My view of USC is due to their huge success in the 80's and some of the numerous stars they have produced, I am not sure I see overwhelming evidence or history as to viewing UW as PAC12 needing them to awesome as other than that 1 year with Plum, what made them relevant?

Washington definitely had some history before Plum showed up. Chris Gobrecht had a nice tenure from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. They were Stanford's chief rival in conference for most of that time.

She was a step down but June Daugherty had some nice seasons. Daugherty and Gobrecht both got them as far as the Elite 8.

Tia Jackson was terrible, McGuff immediately got them going the right direction, Neighbors kept it moving forward, then they fell off a cliff.

 

[DaBball]

I can see that, I might say Washington. Others on this site have said give it more time, but I'm skeptical they are going to turn a corner. It's certainly possible to win there, it's been done by multiple different coaches.

Did you see Strother’s tweet on Wynn? No bueno there.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Did you see Strother’s tweet on Wynn? No bueno there.

I did. That's concerning. The on court product hasn't been good, but at least I thought she had a strong family atmosphere and a tight knit team. Since this is the first I've heard anything remotely like this, I'm wondering if anyone else is going to share similar thoughts about the state of the program.

 

[garddog]

SEC:
Has to be Vanderbilt with White. Fargas is a distant second.

 

[triaddukefan]

March 2021..... Like Shannon Sharpe said.. I'll be on that milds with that yac...

 

[SECbbfan24]

SEC:
Has to be Vanderbilt with White. Fargas is a distant second.

the auburn coach is giving both a run for their money based off what has transpired over the last 6 months

 

[HuskyMJ]

SEC: Vanderbilt; Auburn
PAC; Washington

I don't get the Texas Tech mention. She's been there 2 years. Won 2 more conf games in year 2 than year 1. Needs time to get her own players into her system.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

My take - mostly on your remarks:

BE - Providence has not been good since we started following WBB (1995). Their history before that is irrelevant. Georgetown had some slightly decent years, but they play in McDonough Gym. Nough said. The point is Providence College is unlikely to put much effort into WBB, nor is there any reason they have to.

ACC - Duke is simply not that bad. Do I think they need to change coach - yes. But if you are trying to highlight teams that just don't seem to be moving in the right direction, there are others worse than Duke

Big10 - Again, Purdue may need to move on from Versyp, tis true. But there are some worse teams - including Wisconsin and Illinois - that bear some watching, coaches are fairly new but it isn't looking promising.

Big 12 - Probably Kansas, more so than K State. I don't like the K State coach, I didn't like Patterson either. But I'm not sure he's gots to go yet. Oklahoma, this has to be the last year to show improvement.

PAC - yeah, USC has issues. I doubt they are doing anything about it.

SEC - Tennessee did something about it; while LSU is meh in some ways, the issues are Vanderbilt with Auburn and Alabama also needing a turn-around.

Some schools don't care so much about WBB (PC, for example); others have modest standards. And sometimes, it isn't really quite either, so much as "constraints". Arizona was stuck with Niya Butts for way too long because, even though her salary wasn't so large, keeping her helped offset other more immediate expenses that were a higher priority. It isn't they didn't want WBB to succeed, or even that they didn't care, there were just more pressing things. At least they seem to have gotten it right once they made the change.

 

[Lorcan]

I'd chime in with the following:

BEAST: Xavier: Melanie Moore has a big rebuild ahead of her for a program that was 4.4 seconds away from upsetting perennial power Stanford (why is it always Stanford getting upset?). This past season started off with a somewhat promising win over Utah, but it quickly went downhill as Xavier won just two more games the rest of the way. The good news is that they return their leading scorer, in A. Gray, but the bad news? The Huskies are hungry and coming to town.

ACC: We all love to pick on McCallie, it's honestly a past time of individuals on this board. This is honestly ignoring the atrociousness of Pittsburgh. Pitt isn't even the best team in the city of Pittsburgh! (Duquesne holds a 21-17 all time record against Pittsburgh, including 10 of the last 12 games against Pitt. It's surprising, because Pitt has had some success in the past during the Shavonte Zellous era, where they trailed Stanford by just 1 point with 8 minutes to go, before getting blown out. As the Boneyarder's like to claim though, if you play a team close until about the 5-8 minute mark, you have a very good chance of trouncing them the next time you play. (See, Baylor, circa 2020). It's remarkable that Pitt managed to send Muffett off into retirement with their first win against Notre Dame in over 10 years despite the year they were having.

BiG: Purdue, is a trendy and popular pick. As others have pointed out Illinois and Wisconsin still have the jury out on them, and Illinois recently had some success on the recruiting trail if memory serves, but we'll have to see how that pans out. It's worth noticing that Lindsay Whalen has been trending down in an admittedly small sample since her arrival at Minnesota. It remains to be seen how much the discord from this past year carries over into the next season with the departure of Destiny Pitts. I don't think that she's in any trouble, just it bears watching. The bright side is that there is good talent for the Gophers moving forward in Powell and Scalia. On the flip side, Amy Williams has had fairly mediocre results at Nebraska. In just four years at Nebraska, they have only made one trip to the Big Dance, which resulted in a one and done to a wonderful squad led by Charli Turner Thorne that happened to have Courtney Ekmark on it. I think Nebraska wants to allow for time to pass since the Connie Yori debacle before they move on, but expectations are sky high although volleyball is king.

B12: Kansas. Quite how Brandon Schneider still has a job after just 11 (!!!!) Big 12 wins in 5 years is baffling. To top that achievement, Kansas went and lost to Pittsburgh State in a televised exhibition. While I agree that things in Oklahoma are getting warm, Sherri Coale is the life of that program, and having Courtney Paris on the sideline ought to keep the fans happy. Someone does need to explain the lack of effort from Kansas to even compete with their WBB Program.

Pac-12: Jody Wynn's seat at Washington has to be scorching hot after the recent insensitive tweets that she posted combined with her lack of immediate results at the UDub. The departure of stalwart Amber Melgoza without a heir apparent is also extremely worrying for fans of the Pacific Northwest. Others have mentioned USC, so I'll go in a different direction. JR Payne at Colorado is in trouble in my opinion. This past season, the Buffaloes were VERY close to a monumental breakthrough with Stanford managing to escape, not once, but twice against a savvy Colorado. The Buffaloes do return a significant amount of talent, in the fantastic duo of Mya Hollingshead and Jaylyn Sherrod; however, the departure of Emma Clark to Texas Tech is certainly a blow for JR Payne. There is promise, but they just never quite seem to break through.

SEC: I do not speak of this conference. If I had to speak of it though, I'd probably go with Stephanie White at Vanderbilt. I remember the Melanie Balcomb days at Vanderbilt fondly, and appreciated that she did manage to stay competitive and snatch a few good wins here and there.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

ACC: We all love to pick on McCallie, it's honestly a past time of individuals on this board. This is honestly ignoring the atrociousness of Pittsburgh. Pitt isn't even the best team in the city of Pittsburgh! (Duquesne holds a 21-17 all time record against Pittsburgh, including 10 of the last 12 games against Pitt. It's surprising, because Pitt has had some success in the past during the Shavonte Zellous era, where they trailed Stanford by just 1 point with 8 minutes to go, before getting blown out. As the Boneyarder's like to claim though, if you play a team close until about the 5-8 minute mark, you have a very good chance of trouncing them the next time you play. (See, Baylor, circa 2020). It's remarkable that Pitt managed to send Muffett off into retirement with their first win against Notre Dame in over 10 years despite the year they were having.

Pittsburgh Panthers
The Panthers made a head coaching change after the 2017-18 season, hiring Lance White who had spent the previous 15 years as an assistant coach at Florida State.

His predecessor, Suzie McConnell-Serio, went 67-87 (.435) with an ACC record of 22-58 (.275). In her last season, SMS's Panthers squad went 10-20 overall, 2-14 in the ACC. So Lance White was going to have an uphill battle - and this was before Pitt's best returning player, Yacine Diop, decided to transfer after the 2017-18 season and did not play for White.

While Pitt is only 16–46 (.258) in White's two years, the 2019-20 season had 4 of the top 6 scorers as freshmen and the top 3 rebounders as freshmen. And the team brings in one top-75 recruit, which is a good sign.

I think it is a bit premature to make a decision about White, given he has only had two years on the job and took over a team that was 10-20 the year before he got there. It is clear that White has some very young pieces and was at least able to get one good recruit in 2020. If the freshmen can develop and if White can make some noise on the recruiting trail and get more top-75 level talent, Pitt may look very different after the fifth year of White's tenure as compared to the second.

Duke Blue Devils
As for my Blue Devils and the direction in which the team is trending, I have had MANY conversations (via email, text, and on the phone) with @EricLA , @ucbart , @triaddukefan , @CocoHusky , @vowelguy , and other posters. But to respond to the initial topic and posts by @DefenseBB and @nwhoopfan and in response to @Lorcan 's post, these are the season/performance records for Duke for the last ten years of the Gail Goestenkors era:

1997–98	Duke	24–8	13–3	1st	NCAA Elite Eight
1998–99	Duke	29–7	15–1	1st	NCAA Runner-Up
1999–00	Duke	28–6	12–4	2nd	NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2000–01	Duke	30–4	13–3	1st	NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2001–02	Duke	31–4	16–0	1st	NCAA Final Four
2002–03	Duke	35–2	16–0	1st	NCAA Final Four
2003–04	Duke	30–4	15–1	1st	NCAA Elite Eight
2004–05	Duke	31–5	12–2	T–1st	NCAA Elite Eight
2005–06	Duke	31–4	12–2	T–2nd	NCAA Runner-Up
2006–07	Duke	32–2	14–0	1st	NCAA Sweet Sixteen

Joanne P. McCallie took over at Duke in April 2007. After a Sweet 16 loss, a second round upset as a #1 seed, Duke made four Elite Eights from 2010-2013. Since 2013, however, these are Duke's season/performance records:

2013–14	Duke	28–7	12–4	2nd	NCAA Second Round
2014–15	Duke	23–11	11–5	T–4th	NCAA Sweet 16
2015–16	Duke	20–12	8-8	T–7th
2016–17	Duke	28-6	13-3	T-2nd	NCAA Second Round
2017–18	Duke	24-9	11-5	T-4th	NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2018–19	Duke	15–15	6–10	T–10th
2019–20	Duke	18–12	12–6	3rd	Postseason cancelled

 

[Lorcan]

@CamrnCrz1974 I'm not disputing that change is needed at Duke, especially given the rapid decline of the program in the post Goestenkors years, I'm just saying that there's another program in the ACC that has been rather atrocious. I would think that if you had just finished your 5th year, that you'd want to see results by now, but I can respect Pitt for wanting to give extra time given the promise that you've pointed out.

 

[EricLA]

Pittsburgh Panthers
The Panthers made a head coaching change after the 2017-18 season, hiring Lance White who had spent the previous 15 years as an assistant coach at Florida State.

His predecessor, Suzie McConnell-Serio, went 67-87 (.435) with an ACC record of 22-58 (.275). In her last season, SMS's Panthers squad went 10-20 overall, 2-14 in the ACC. So Lance White was going to have an uphill battle - and this was before Pitt's best returning player, Yacine Diop, decided to transfer after the 2017-18 season and did not play for White.

While Pitt is only 16–46 (.258) in White's two years, the 2019-20 season had 4 of the top 6 scorers as freshmen and the top 3 rebounders as freshmen. And the team brings in one top-75 recruit, which is a good sign.

I think it is a bit premature to make a decision about White, given he has only had two years on the job and took over a team that was 10-20 the year before he got there. It is clear that White has some very young pieces and was at least able to get one good recruit in 2020. If the freshmen can develop and if White can make some noise on the recruiting trail and get more top-75 level talent, Pitt may look very different after the fifth year of White's tenure as compared to the second.

Duke Blue Devils
As for my Blue Devils and the direction in which the team is trending, I have had MANY conversations (via email, text, and on the phone) with @EricLA , @ucbart , @triaddukefan , @CocoHusky , @vowelguy , and other posters. But to respond to the initial topic and posts by @DefenseBB and @nwhoopfan and in response to @Lorcan 's post, these are the season/performance records for Duke for the last ten years of the Gail Goestenkors era:

1997–98	Duke	24–8	13–3	1st	NCAA Elite Eight
1998–99	Duke	29–7	15–1	1st	NCAA Runner-Up
1999–00	Duke	28–6	12–4	2nd	NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2000–01	Duke	30–4	13–3	1st	NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2001–02	Duke	31–4	16–0	1st	NCAA Final Four
2002–03	Duke	35–2	16–0	1st	NCAA Final Four
2003–04	Duke	30–4	15–1	1st	NCAA Elite Eight
2004–05	Duke	31–5	12–2	T–1st	NCAA Elite Eight
2005–06	Duke	31–4	12–2	T–2nd	NCAA Runner-Up
2006–07	Duke	32–2	14–0	1st	NCAA Sweet Sixteen

Joanne P. McCallie took over at Duke in April 2007. After a Sweet 16 loss, a second round upset as a #1 seed, Duke made four Elite Eights from 2010-2013. Since 2013, however, these are Duke's season/performance records:

2013–14	Duke	28–7	12–4	2nd	NCAA Second Round
2014–15	Duke	23–11	11–5	T–4th	NCAA Sweet 16
2015–16	Duke	20–12	8-8	T–7th
2016–17	Duke	28-6	13-3	T-2nd	NCAA Second Round
2017–18	Duke	24-9	11-5	T-4th	NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2018–19	Duke	15–15	6–10	T–10th
2019–20	Duke	18–12	12–6	3rd	Postseason cancelled

This is going to be a pretty bad year for Duke. You know how much you lost to graduation last year, and with no contract extension for McCallie, not only is the writing on the wall, but recruiting has taken a huge hit as well... Meaning that any kid who wants to choose Duke will be doing so BECAUSE it's Duke, since it's likely there will be a new head coach in a year or so...

 

[triaddukefan]

This is going to be a pretty bad year for Duke. You know how much you lost to graduation last year, and with no contract extension for McCallie, not only is the writing on the wall, but recruiting has taken a huge hit as well... Meaning that any kid who wants to choose Duke will be doing so BECAUSE it's Duke, since it's likely there will be a new head coach in a year or so...

Its gonna be ugly..... I think we will be looking up at Wake AND Pitt in the standings... my goodness

 

[DefenseBB]

My initial thinking when I posted this thread was about "traditional powers" of a history of WCBB and is why I pushed back a bit to @nwhoopfan about UW. While Washington was relatively competitive in the PAC12, which was DOMINATED by Stanford, UW and most of the other schools were never nationally strong. The same argument is made for Wisc, Illinois, Pittsburgh. Vanderbilt has sporadically been good within the SEC and has a few nice runs in the NCAA but not to the level that LSU has. White has been an utter disaster especially considering the amount of money she makes, what her assistants made and the effort the school put into the program that Balcomb never got. Add in the VU deficit and it will not be getting better for the Commodores.

WCBB landscape is changing and NOT all schools can be elite. Throwing money at the problem is never the solution though sometimes it helps-hence my Texas Tech reference. I simply find Stollings intolerable to listen to and given her "cupcake u" scheduling habits, I find her coaching MUCH OVERRATED! She scheduled terrible teams when she coached Minnesota and continues that trend at Texas Tech. She built up a gaudy OOC record and then threw her team under the bus when they lost to good teams because she pretended to believe the Raiders were good when her product was untested. Now compare that to Virginia which played the #1 schedule with a young team. I think Tina may be on a nice trajectory these next few years....

 

[DefenseBB]

Its gonna be ugly..... I think we will be looking up at Wake AND Pitt in the standings... my goodness

But if you want change, and I know you do, you really need her to have a bad year in her final contact season so it is abundantly clear to the AD she needs to go. I guess the good news is you haven't heard about any extensions for her during this offseason...if we had, I am sure I would have violate travel protocol to safeguard you from being arrested for assault (or worse)….

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

@CamrnCrz1974 I'm not disputing that change is needed at Duke, especially given the rapid decline of the program in the post Goestenkors years, I'm just saying that there's another program in the ACC that has been rather atrocious. I would think that if you had just finished your 5th year, that you'd want to see results by now, but I can respect Pitt for wanting to give extra time given the promise that you've pointed out.

@Lorcan , I apologize if you misread my post or if I did not make it clear. Lance White just completed his second year at Pitt. His predecessor had five years. I was pointing out that the hope is that White would be given five years (the same amount of time as his predecessor) and could turn the program around in that time frame.

 

[Lorcan]

@Lorcan , I apologize if you misread my post or if I did not make it clear. Lance White just completed his second year at Pitt. His predecessor had five years. I was pointing out that the hope is that White would be given five years (the same amount of time as his predecessor) and could turn the program around in that time frame.

Huh. I could've sworn that I read somewhere that he'd been there for longer. I apologize because, I did in fact, mess up how long he's been there.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

@Lorcan , I apologize if you misread my post or if I did not make it clear. Lance White just completed his second year at Pitt. His predecessor had five years. I was pointing out that the hope is that White would be given five years (the same amount of time as his predecessor) and could turn the program around in that time frame.

One would hope. I don't know why Pitt has never made any headway. I go back to when Bruce was head coach, and when we were in NJ we went to Pitt to see RU play a number of times, certainly the facilities are nice although it is a bit hilly about the University. In any case, after the Traci Waites failure - and she was not particularly a pleasant person, FWIW, the one time we met her - there was Agnes. Good and bad times. Then Suzie. I mean, it isn't like they didn't seem to try harder than they did in the Kirk Bruce years.

Some programs just can't get over the hump.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Lest anyone forget, regarding Vanderbilt, they had a long successful run under Jim Foster before Melanie Balcomb. He had a slightly better winning percentage, in fact.

 

[WestsideWaltz]

USC has a new AD and they're still reeling from the admissions scandal. As for Trakh, he's done a great job putting together chemistry among his current group and also has done a very good job of recruiting. Now the main thing to remember is that he's in his third year and he's 65, only two years younger than Tara, the oldest coach in the league.

USC needs an entirely new direction in their entire athletic program which is why Mike Bohn is the new AD. Their next few years will be revealing and not just for WBB. There was a fair amount of interest in the program after the HBO documentary. If Trakh gets even one of the two remaining SoCal ***** players of 2021 in addition to Akunwafo, they look to be the program to watch in LA, not UCLA. I'm not so sure that that isn't already the case. I also think Coach Close is a more interesting discussion when it comes to new directions.

 

[triaddukefan]

But if you want change, and I know you do, you really need her to have a bad year in her final contact season so it is abundantly clear to the AD she needs to go. I guess the good news is you haven't heard about any extensions for her during this offseason...if we had, I am sure I would have violate travel protocol to safeguard you from being arrested for assault (or worse)….

Kinda think its abundantly clear to the AD that its time for a change........... just waiting for march 2021.......

 

[Plebe]

I simply find Stollings intolerable to listen to and given her "cupcake u" scheduling habits, I find her coaching MUCH OVERRATED! She scheduled terrible teams when she coached Minnesota and continues that trend at Texas Tech. She built up a gaudy OOC record and then threw her team under the bus when they lost to good teams because she pretended to believe the Raiders were good when her product was untested.

Ha I think you are secretly a Stollings fan! How can you not love a coach who finishes off an un-de-fea-ted cupcake OOC schedule with this interview?