When most talking heads talk about AD budgets and revenue...

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Joking right? It is all about greed. All of the decision makers are making bank and they know the states have deep pockets. It's not like college football will go bankrupt and go away. Ohio State just won the national championship and you think they are worried about a deficit. We are too used to dealing with UConn's issues but they are far from UConn. OK, I'm out.

You've really got yourself convinced... Perhaps also consider the concerns universities and states are under in terms of the current administration's stated goals of reducing federal dollars for general education and research grants. That alone could be tens to hundreds of millions of dollars per school not flowing into university budgets.

That all said, schools will likely continue to look at athletics as advertising/marketing arms in order to dive student applications, donations, etc. and so while unlikely schools won't pull the plug on subsidizing AD losses, every dollar spent will get more and more scrutiny. This will force AD's to raise ticket prices, pound the sand for even more athletic-specific donations, etc.

Gone are the days of free flowing milk and honey.

 

[Kolumbo]

You've really got yourself convinced... Perhaps also consider the concerns universities and states are under in terms of the current administration's stated goals of reducing federal dollars for general education and research grants. That alone could be tens to hundreds of millions of dollars per school not flowing into university budgets.

That all said, schools will likely continue to look at athletics as advertising/marketing arms in order to dive student applications, donations, etc. and so while unlikely schools won't pull the plug on subsidizing AD losses, every dollar spent will get more and more scrutiny. This will force AD's to raise ticket prices, pound the sand for even more athletic-specific donations, etc.

Gone are the days of free flowing milk and honey.

So that was a long way of saying that the Athletic Departments will be fine. Or, what exactly is your point? Are ADs in trouble or not? I don't think so.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

So that was a long way of saying that the Athletic Departments will be fine. Or, what exactly is your point? Are ADs in trouble or not? I don't think so.

Nowhere did I say they're fine. Yes, they're in troubled waters. Stop twisting things to fit your narrative.

 

[Kolumbo]

Nowhere did I say they're fine. Yes, they're in troubled waters. Stop twisting things to fit your narrative.

So just say that then. In which case I strongly disagree. No way are the Ohio States of the world in troubled waters. Every year they are getting record revenues. They make money and they spend money. A $38 million deficit is nothing at all to be concerned about. Probably just an accounting ploy to be able to request more funding. Just look at the dollars coming and going.

 

[BigTenFan]

Ohio State and a number of other large Universities get zero state funding

 

[champs99and04]

No way are the Ohio States of the world in troubled waters. Every year they are getting record revenues. They make money and they spend money.

That's where the game has changed, though. It used to be that spending was investing. Build expensive practice facility --> Attract players --> Make that money back.

Nowadays that money goes directly into the players' pockets. Kind of like pro sports, except you can't turn around and sell the franchise for more than you bought it for.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

So just say that then. In which case I strongly disagree. No way are the Ohio States of the world in troubled waters. Every year they are getting record revenues. They make money and they spend money. A $38 million deficit is nothing at all to be concerned about. Probably just an accounting ploy to be able to request more funding. Just look at the dollars coming and going.

Nowhere did I mention Ohio State. You did. Stop twisting things.

 

[Kolumbo]

Nowhere did I mention Ohio State. You did. Stop twisting things.

Geez dude, agree or disagree, but at least stay on track.

We were discussing Ohio State and big-time football and you chimed in with:

"It's silly to think that $40m is couch money to any institution.."

"Why do you think even the B1G and SEC are trying to squeeze out additional revenues from the CFP, non-con scheduling, possible PE investments, etc. etc. ???"

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Geez dude, agree or disagree, but at least stay on track.

We were discussing Ohio State and big-time football and you chimed in with:

"It's silly to think that $40m is couch money to any institution.."

"Why do you think even the B1G and SEC are trying to squeeze out additional revenues from the CFP, non-con scheduling, possible PE investments, etc. etc. ???"

I am staying on track - you either can't comprehend or are just twisting things. To make it simpler for you - I am speaking about all of the Big10, SEC, Big12, ACC and the rest. You keep homing in on Ohio State.

You make it seem like the AD of any University can waltz into the President's office and shrug off an eight figure shortfall with the shadow of another $20m of increased expense (House settlement annual player payments) lurking in this year's financials. That's simply not how it works.

 

[Ha Who]

It is like the successful stockbroker who does well while the funds are coming in. But eventually the market turns down (in this case television rights). By this time the stockbroker is used to living high and well you know how the story ends

 

[Kolumbo]

It is like the successful stockbroker who does well while the funds are coming in. But eventually the market turns down (in this case television rights). By this time the stockbroker is used to living high and well you know how the story ends

How so? Maybe the surgeon general will issue a warning that football can be hazardous to your health and college football will fold entirely. Until that day comes, let us know when you think the bubble will really burst. I'll be the first to admit the game of football is very overrated. The Super Bowl is the single biggest marketing farce. Play best of 7 like everyone else mo-fos. Each player only plays half the game anyway as it is. It's a fugazi.

A refresher course for you

 

[Ha Who]

How so? Maybe the surgeon general will issue a warning that football can be hazardous to your health and college football will fold entirely. Until that day comes, let us know when you think the bubble will really burst. I'll be the first to admit the game of football is very overrated. The Super Bowl is the single biggest marketing farce. Play best of 7 like everyone else mo-fos. Each player only plays half the game anyway as it is. It's a fugazi.

A refresher course for you

You do realize Columbo went off the air in 2003

 

[CL82]

"The university is projecting a surplus of $112.6 million before depreciation or capital items. This surplus becomes a loss of $216.7 million after depreciation."

You do realize that depreciation isn't an actual cash outlay right?

 

[upstater]

You do realize that depreciation isn't an actual cash outlay right?

?

I am showing the part of the budget that is fungible

 

[CL82]

?

I am showing the part of the budget that is fungible

?

 

[upstater]

?

We're having a discussion about whether going $30m in the hole hurts a university. What I linked to shows how much money a university has in any given year to spend on things they are not contracted/required to spend. If you remove $30m from $112m, that will have a huge impact on instruction.

 

[CL82]

We're having a discussion about whether going $30m in the hole hurts a university. What I linked to shows how much money a university has in any given year to spend on things they are not contracted/required to spend. If you remove $30m from $112m, that will have a huge impact on instruction.

Got it. By fungible you mean non-restricted.

Isn't a budgetary "surplus" definitionally anticipated revenue in excess of anticipated expenses?

 

[upstater]

Got it. By fungible you mean non-restricted.

Isn't a budgetary "surplus" definitionally anticipated revenue in excess of anticipated expenses?

It is simply a reserve that is generated for instructional purposes. So, for instance, each department generates revenue through various endeavors (speaking engagements, tickets, donations given to the department, etc.), but those funds are controlled by the university. So, for instance, I run a very small endowment for someone who left us $1m+. The budget is only $25k a year for programming, but each charge must be approved by the university even though it is dedicated to the dept. We put on 4 events in total per year. That money can be encumbered if the university gets desperate, and this has happened in the past. Other things that go are any extra programming for classes, adjunct professors, travel to conferences, conference fees, recruitment funds, etc. I think of all this as essential to instruction, but it can easily disappear on a whim. Heck, our department owns classrooms and we had to vote, as a department, whether to spend our money on a one-time outlay for tech equipment (I remember it because the price was ludicrous). Other weird example about how money moves in the university: departments charge other units for room rental, so instead of paying them, I rent a few buses for 1/10th the price of the room and instead I reserve an auditorium in our city owned by a pretty well known folk singer; she gives it to us for free.

These are the kinds of things that go on with that money.

One recent thing we're seeing is people taking a hatchet to PhD programs. That's also unrestricted funding. PhD students are expendable. Vanderbilt, UPenn, Pitt, dozens of others have announced halts openly. I'm imagining a ton of others haven't made it public yet. But this is not wise. It is "penny-wise, pound-foolish" type of stuff, since grad students are a form of cheap labor. The ultimate savings will be marginal at best.

Amid funding uncertainty, Pitt pauses doctoral admissions

The University of Pittsburgh has paused admissions to doctoral programs amid federal funding uncertainty as a judge in Massachusetts considers whether...

www.post-gazette.com

 

[CL82]

It is simply a reserve that is generated for instructional purposes. So, for instance, each department generates revenue through various endeavors (speaking engagements, tickets, donations given to the department, etc.), but those funds are controlled by the university. So, for instance, I run a very small endowment for someone who left us $1m+. The budget is only $25k a year for programming, but each charge must be approved by the university even though it is dedicated to the dept. We put on 4 events in total per year. That money can be encumbered if the university gets desperate, and this has happened in the past. Other things that go are any extra programming for classes, adjunct professors, travel to conferences, conference fees, recruitment funds, etc. I think of all this as essential to instruction, but it can easily disappear on a whim. Heck, our department owns classrooms and we had to vote, as a department, whether to spend our money on a one-time outlay for tech equipment (I remember it because the price was ludicrous). Other weird example about how money moves in the university: departments charge other units for room rental, so instead of paying them, I rent a few buses for 1/10th the price of the room and instead I reserve an auditorium in our city owned by a pretty well known folk singer; she gives it to us for free.

These are the kinds of things that go on with that money.

One recent thing we're seeing is people taking a hatchet to PhD programs. That's also unrestricted funding. PhD students are expendable. Vanderbilt, UPenn, Pitt, dozens of others have announced halts openly. I'm imagining a ton of others haven't made it public yet. But this is not wise. It is "penny-wise, pound-foolish" type of stuff, since grad students are a form of cheap labor. The ultimate savings will be marginal at best.

Amid funding uncertainty, Pitt pauses doctoral admissions

The University of Pittsburgh has paused admissions to doctoral programs amid federal funding uncertainty as a judge in Massachusetts considers whether...

www.post-gazette.com

I understand, but surplus revenue isn't a dedicated pool of existing funds. It is the excess of anticipated revenue over known existing expenses. So, it would be more analogous to "annual salary" rather than a "savings account." Say you make $200,000 a year and your known annual expenses are $75,000 a year. Your projected surplus revenue the excess of your salary over your anticipated expenses would be $125,000 a year. So, when the university talks about surplus revenue, aren't they saying this is the amount of money that we will bring in over the amount for which we have known commitments, not including depreciation, which isn't an actual outlay, and capital expenditures?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but that's my understanding of what that language means.

 

[upstater]

I understand, but surplus revenue isn't a dedicated pool of existing funds. It is the excess of anticipated revenue over known existing expenses. So, it would be more analogous to "annual salary" rather than a "savings account." Say you make $200,000 a year and your known annual expenses are $75,000 a year. Your projected surplus revenue the excess of your salary over your anticipated expenses would be $125,000 a year. So, when the university talks about surplus revenue, aren't they saying this is the amount of money that we will bring in over the amount for which we have known commitments, not including depreciation, which isn't an actual outlay, and capital expenditures?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but that's my understanding of what that language means.

It says it right in the quote off Ohio State's page:

"The university surplus is comprised of general funds used for teaching and other unrestricted uses, restricted funds from grants, gifts, or governmental appropriations, and earnings funds such as housing and dining and health sciences clinical operations"

It's a combo of earnings, unrestricted funds, grants, gifts and gov't appropriations. Why they call it a surplus, I don't know what that gets them, but when I looked at their budget on their webpage, they went to lengths to go over their restricted budget and things they can't cut unless they go through a process like retrenchment (ie. total elimination of programs). 80% of the budget is otherwise spoke for at several hospitals and outside research centers, some for the small campuses. So, we're talking about $2b for OSU-Columbus, with only 5-10% of that available for spending unrestrictedly.

That tracks with what I know of other universities and their budgets.

 

[CL82]

It says it right in the quote off Ohio State's page:

"The university surplus is comprised of general funds used for teaching and other unrestricted uses, restricted funds from grants, gifts, or governmental appropriations, and earnings funds such as housing and dining and health sciences clinical operations"

It's a combo of earnings, unrestricted funds, grants, gifts and gov't appropriations. Why they call it a surplus, I don't know what that gets them, but when I looked at their budget on their webpage, they went to lengths to go over their restricted budget and things they can't cut unless they go through a process like retrenchment (ie. total elimination of programs). 80% of the budget is otherwise spoke for at several hospitals and outside research centers, some for the small campuses. So, we're talking about $2b for OSU-Columbus, with only 5-10% of that available for spending unrestrictedly.

That tracks with what I know of other universities and their budgets.

OK, I understand. It is counterintuitive language. I feel like I would get a better understanding if I actually looked at the numbers, rather than a narrative, but I'm not feeling that ambitious about it.

 

[jostar1]

 

[BigTenFan]

Meanwhile.....place kicker holder signs 5 million dollar NIL deal

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Meanwhile.....place kicker holder signs 5 million dollar NIL deal

I'm sure the sports information file clerk is allowed to pursue NIL deals. If they have a hot young girl in that position she may do well with only fans.