What to do about offensive flops

[Forego]

Men’s soccer thanks you for your interest in flopping.

Play on!

 

[cancontent]

The referees don't know how to handle the offensive flop. I have seen Arkansas guards use it last year and now the FSU guards are using it as one their primary scoring options. Drive to the hoop and throw yourself at the defensive player and throw the ball towards the hoop and then fall downfall down.
1. This is best used against bigs by little guards. The big stands her ground with their hands up and the offensive player knows their shot with probably be blocked but throws themselves at the big and they will get to the foul line for two shots. This is 50 to 75 % of Watson's offensive arsenal. Lots of points from the line.
2. Lou did a fantastic job on Watson by falling backwards as Watson would throw herself at her. She was rewarded by getting two charges on her.
3. The refs can see the contact being created by the offensive player when the defensive player falls but not when the bigs stand straight up with their hands up. They are assuming when the player falls down it must be the defenders fault.

Did anyone else se this and is this a tendency in WBB. I call it Flop and shoot. I think the refs must be shown this and learn to determine who creates the contact is the fouler.

You're referring to when the player "sells the contact" correct? Flopping to me is in relation to defenders trying to draw charges. If that's the case, there are a lot of players who could be on this list beyond FSU.

Heck, we're seeing kids in HS and prep ball doing this because they see it works on various levels. NCAA men's have a rule for defensive flopping. Nothing for the women's side yet. Haven't heard anything regarding the women's side.

 

[cancontent]

Although I haven't seen it much, if at all, this year, I'd say, yes, Aaliyah has flopped a few times during her Huskies career... no one else recently that I can recall.

Are we talking offensively or defensively in this thread? What you're describing sounds like a defensive tactic versus what I think the original poster is referring to.

 

[OldSchooler]

Re the charge/block call, I'm old enough to remember (or maybe I'm just imagining) when a charge was only called when the defender held a rigid position for a full second before contact. The game has obviously sped up too much for that rule/interpretation to be workable.

Re foul calls in general, I went to college in the Boston area back in the Auerbach days, and I listened to the Celtics games on the radio. The Celts were good enough, in those days, that they didn't need any help, but in 4 years, according to their longtime radiocaster Johnny Most (Bill Bradley used to call him "Johnny Least"), the Celts never lost a game fair and square.. Either the other team "spent the entire night at the foul line," or the refs swallowed their whistles while the other team "out-muscled the Celts all night long."

 

[boontonbomber]

Reading all of these posts makes it clear to me that , given the difficulty of trying to officiate these days, BY'ers should stop complaining so much about UConn getting the short end from refs. All players, including UConn players , have a bit of "actor" in them.

 

[Forego]

Re the charge/block call, I'm old enough to remember (or maybe I'm just imagining) when a charge was only called when the defender held a rigid position for a full second before contact. The game has obviously sped up too much for that rule/interpretation to be workable.

Re foul calls in general, I went to college in the Boston area back in the Auerbach days, and I listened to the Celtics games on the radio. The Celts were good enough, in those days, that they didn't need any help, but in 4 years, according to their longtime radiocaster Johnny Most (Bill Bradley used to call him "Johnny Least"), the Celts never lost a game fair and square.. Either the other team "spent the entire night at the foul line," or the refs swallowed their whistles while the other team "out-muscled the Celts all night long."

I remember whenever the Celts missed a shot he told the radio audience the ball was “in and out”.

 

[jabstep]

I do not know what the correct answer to this question. However, I have see very clearly that a right handed person dribbling the ball or for that matter a left handed person use the alternate arm to push the defender away and the defender going to the floor. I have seen the defender called for a foul when I believe the offensive player should be called for that foul for using that arm to push the defender away. What is the correct answer?

Offensive player

 

[jabstep]

Men’s soccer thanks you for your interest in flopping.

I know it is hard to watch. They now can call a yellow card and did in the World cup final.

 

[jabstep]

You're referring to when the player "sells the contact" correct? Flopping to me is in relation to defenders trying to draw charges. If that's the case, there are a lot of players who could be on this list beyond FSU.

Heck, we're seeing kids in HS and prep ball doing this because they see it works on various levels. NCAA men's have a rule for defensive flopping. Nothing for the women's side yet. Haven't heard anything regarding the women's side.

I am talking about the offensive player selling a foul that they create. I watched a couple of FSU games bfore they played UConn and Latson gets around half her points on the foul line. She throws herself at the defensive player and gets a lot of calls from the refs. Lou got her becasue when she threw herself at Lou she did the flop to show the ref that the offensive player created the contact and made her fall.

 

[MSGRET]

I am talking about the offensive player selling a foul that they create. I watched a couple of FSU games bfore they played UConn and Latson gets around half her points on the foul line. She throws herself at the defensive player and gets a lot of calls from the refs. Lou got her becasue when she threw herself at Lou she did the flop to show the ref that the offensive player created the contact and made her fall.

I don't think that Lou actually did a flop, I think she went down too hard for it to be one.

 

[cancontent]

I am talking about the offensive player selling a foul that they create. I watched a couple of FSU games bfore they played UConn and Latson gets around half her points on the foul line. She throws herself at the defensive player and gets a lot of calls from the refs. Lou got her becasue when she threw herself at Lou she did the flop to show the ref that the offensive player created the contact and made her fall.

Flopping is a defensive tactic to me. Hadn't heard the term being used from an offensive perspective before.

 

[dabears17]

Heard from a little birdie that part of Stanford’s scouting report on the Creighton Bluejays is that they like to flop. Only saw parts of the 2nd and 4th quarter, but saw two definite flops in a 3 minute stretch. A couple others were just exaggerations to make sure the refs saw contact.

Poor Betts got called for a foul running through and knocking done a guard cutting to the basket.

I’ve never like taking a charge and falling to the ground. Jamie Carey loved to do that and it made me nervous. She wound getting concussions and she had to retire because Stanford doctors refused to clear her to play. University of Texas wound up clearing her about a year later and she made it to the final four with them.

 

[Bone Dog]

Flopping is a defensive tactic to me. Hadn't heard the term being used from an offensive perspective before.

Yup. The offensive version is sometimes called “creating contact.” But a common version of this is driving into the defender and then falling down behind the backboard. Clark is a master of this tactic. Think of other guards who rarely end a drive standing up.

 

[cancontent]

Yup. The offensive version is sometimes called “creating contact.” But a common version of this is driving into the defender and then falling down behind the backboard. Clark is a master of this tactic. Think of other guards who rarely end a drive standing up.

The list could be a long one. How much time do we have today?

 

[cancontent]

Heard from a little birdie that part of Stanford’s scouting report on the Creighton Bluejays is that they like to flop. Only saw parts of the 2nd and 4th quarter, but saw two definite flops in a 3 minute stretch. A couple others were just exaggerations to make sure the refs saw contact.

Poor Betts got called for a foul running through and knocking done a guard cutting to the basket.

I’ve never like taking a charge and falling to the ground. Jamie Carey loved to do that and it made me nervous. She wound getting concussions and she had to retire because Stanford doctors refused to clear her to play. University of Texas wound up clearing her about a year later and she made it to the final four with them.

It's a catch-22 from how I see it. Players are taught how to absorb contact nowadays to help avoid hitting their head, but sometimes it's still unavoidable. Offensive players at the same time drive to the basket with no regard of the defensive player, even if they're not trying to draw the charge.

 

[BobbyJ]

Flopping is a defensive tactic to me. Hadn't heard the term being used from an offensive perspective before.

Watch Caitlin Clark. Leans in with the shoulder, launches away, flings a shot up to get the shooting foul, flails the arms like she's been electrocuted, and slides to the floor so she doesn't hit it hard. Usually does it going right so her shooting arm is free. Masterful performance.

 

[cancontent]

Watch Caitlin Clark. Leans in with the shoulder, launches away, flings a shot up to get the shooting foul, flails the arms like she's been electrocuted, and slides to the floor so she doesn't hit it hard. Usually does it going right so her shooting arm is free. Masterful performance.

I still see that as "selling the foul/contact" versus flopping. I'm not a fan of the tactic at all.

Been seeing kids do this for years in HS and AAU ball and refs fall for it every time. Clark may be one of the better known players for this, but the list of who do this would be a lengthy one.

 

[Bone Dog]

I still see that as "selling the foul/contact" versus flopping. I'm not a fan of the tactic at all.

I think that’s a fair description. I don’t fault the players for it. These are the terms of the game as they’ve been taught them. If anyone should be faulted, it’s the coaches and the refs and even the NCAA for structuring the game this way and teaching the kids to play it. I certainly don’t blame Clark for it. She is just excellent at the game she’s been taught.

 

[cancontent]

I think that’s a fair description. I don’t fault the players for it. These are the terms of the game as they’ve been taught them. If anyone should be faulted, it’s the coaches and the refs and even the NCAA for structuring the game this way and teaching the kids to play it. I certainly don’t blame Clark for it. She is just excellent at the game she’s been taught.

I agree. Like they say "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

Doesn't mean I can't get frustrated and go into "older person yelling at the clouds" mode though.

 

[Bone Dog]

I agree. Like they say "Don't hate the player, hate the game."

Doesn't mean I can't get frustrated and go into "older person yelling at the clouds" mode though.

I spend so much time yelling at the clouds these days

But I also remember all the kids who routinely end drives still standing and ready to get back on D, like:
Christyn
Evina
Paige
Nika
Caroline
Aubrey
… to name just a few, and only going back a couple years.

And teams that don’t rely on this tactic (or at least not very much), like:
Indiana
Marquette
Villanova
Michigan
Stanford
SCar
Louisville
… even Tennessee

 

[SVCBeercats]

Did anyone else se this and is this a tendency in WBB. I call it Flop and shoot. I think the refs must be shown this and learn to determine who creates the contact is the fouler.

Generally flopping can be stopped by accelerating into the offending defender and slamming an elbow or shoulder into their solar plexus. The groin area is not off limits. Put down 1 or 2 of them and they cease and desist with the flopping. A certain amount of acting is required to avoid being tossed. If they fall before contact, then fake a trip and land with your butt or knee in the aforementioned bodily areas.

 

[cancontent]

Generally flopping can be stopped by accelerating into the offending defender and slamming an elbow or shoulder into their solar plexus. The groin area is not off limits. Put down 1 or 2 of them and they cease and desist with the flopping. A certain amount of acting is required to avoid being tossed. If they fall before contact, then fake a trip and land with your butt or knee in the aforementioned bodily areas.

Hoping this is sarcasm. I can see this approach backfiring in a bad way.

 

[BobbyJ]

I think that’s a fair description. I don’t fault the players for it. These are the terms of the game as they’ve been taught them. If anyone should be faulted, it’s the coaches and the refs and even the NCAA for structuring the game this way and teaching the kids to play it. I certainly don’t blame Clark for it. She is just excellent at the game she’s been taught.

It’s easy not to fault the player as a fan with no stake in it. But not as the defender who’s getting scammed by that player with help from incompetent referees who know what’s going on and won’t call it. But if she doesn’t mind having the reputation as a flopper now and when she gets to the pros, she can have it. The players know and most won’t respect it.

 

[Urshurak]

Flops aren’t illegal in the Women’s game, so it’s a strategy that can really work. The Mabreys have made it a family tradition. It especially works well against UConn as refs seem to relish calling fouls against us for literally nothing sometimes.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Hoping this is sarcasm. I can see this approach backfiring in a bad way.

Ja