What to do about offensive flops

[jabstep]

The referees don't know how to handle the offensive flop. I have seen Arkansas guards use it last year and now the FSU guards are using it as one their primary scoring options. Drive to the hoop and throw yourself at the defensive player and throw the ball towards the hoop and then fall downfall down.
1. This is best used against bigs by little guards. The big stands her ground with their hands up and the offensive player knows their shot with probably be blocked but throws themselves at the big and they will get to the foul line for two shots. This is 50 to 75 % of Watson's offensive arsenal. Lots of points from the line.
2. Lou did a fantastic job on Watson by falling backwards as Watson would throw herself at her. She was rewarded by getting two charges on her.
3. The refs can see the contact being created by the offensive player when the defensive player falls but not when the bigs stand straight up with their hands up. They are assuming when the player falls down it must be the defenders fault.

Did anyone else se this and is this a tendency in WBB. I call it Flop and shoot. I think the refs must be shown this and learn to determine who creates the contact is the fouler.

 

[Bone Dog]

I suspect the rules are a little more complicated than just “who falls down.” But I think you’re right that the bigs are at a bit of a disadvantage in the exchange. Being “not-tall” myself, a part of me wants to celebrate this inequity. But the Husky in me feels outraged.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Well, they do it because it's rewarded. There are some players who fall to the ground on layups any time a defender is near them. They fall because they do it intentionally or are off balance to begin with. Train refs to call what they see and to stop all the "and 1s"just because someone fell or snapped their necks back. I don't think it needs to be penalized because if a defender falls and leaves their team with a 4 on 5 scenario...that's punishment enough. Not to mention that they could cause themselves injury.. I definitely wouldn't advocate for a review because there are too many stoppages in games as there is. At most, give the player a warning and on each repeated incident issue a personal foul and keep playing. Basketball is a CONTACT sport and all these touch calls are killing the flow of games.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

The referees don't know how to handle the offensive flop. I have seen Arkansas guards use it last year and now the FSU guards are using it as one their primary scoring options. Drive to the hoop and throw yourself at the defensive player and throw the ball towards the hoop and then fall downfall down.
1. This is best used against bigs by little guards. The big stands her ground with their hands up and the offensive player knows their shot with probably be blocked but throws themselves at the big and they will get to the foul line for two shots. This is 50 to 75 % of Watson's offensive arsenal. Lots of points from the line.
2. Lou did a fantastic job on Watson by falling backwards as Watson would throw herself at her. She was rewarded by getting two charges on her.
3. The refs can see the contact being created by the offensive player when the defensive player falls but not when the bigs stand straight up with their hands up. They are assuming when the player falls down it must be the defenders fault.

Did anyone else se this and is this a tendency in WBB. I call it Flop and shoot. I think the refs must be shown this and learn to determine who creates the contact is the fouler.

Usually, I just chalk up a lousy call to "part of the game", but I felt sorry for Lou. I think if the defense is obviously retreating and the offense decides to crash into them...should be a play-on, especially when the defense doesn't leave their feet.

 

[visitingcock]

What can we do, oh my!

We can bitch, moan and complain. ( I'm old. Is "bitch" a sexist word? If so, I'll drop that part.)

We can moan and complain.

 

[Centerstream]

To me the rule that made a hand check a foul is the culprit because it made every contact between players an opportunity to (selectively) call a foul...IMO.

 

[hoopsfan22]

What can we do, oh my!

We can bitch, moan and complain. ( I'm old. Is "bitch" a sexist word? If so, I'll drop that part.)

We can moan and complain.

We can stop watching. Which is where I'm kind of getting with basketball. Every 5 seconds someone's on the floor and play is stopped. Maybe there needs to be a new rule: you hit the deck more than twice you're gone for your own and others safety.

 

[ThisJustIn]

OK bye.

 

[Ralph]

Did the announcers say there was a difference in the mens game? Something about flopping being a foul? I seem to recall something about it but don't remember it clearly. Kind of like what is going on it soccer, a/k/a football. A player goes down, writhing in agony, 30 seconds later he is up and playing fine. I find it insulting to the fans and the game. As fake as the wrestling I loved as a kid in the 50's. I was crushed to find out Bruno Sammartino and the others were all scripted. I hated Gorilla Monsoon for no reason.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

To me the rule that made a hand check a foul is the culprit because it made every contact between players an opportunity to (selectively) call a foul...IMO.

A hand check pushes a player off balance and impedes movement. When it doesn't I see where it is appropriately ignored for the most part. A flop is a different animal in that players aren't touched at all or "obviously exaggerate" the impact of contact or initiate contact with a defender who is in a legal guarding position - even if they are moving.

 

[Blakeon18]

Just wondering: in your opinion do we have any floppers...or is it just the bad guys who flop?

 

[The deacon]

Just wondering: in your opinion do we have any floppers...or is it just the bad guys who flop?

Although I haven't seen it much, if at all, this year, I'd say, yes, Aaliyah has flopped a few times during her Huskies career... no one else recently that I can recall.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Just wondering: in your opinion do we have any floppers...or is it just the bad guys who flop?

Habitual ones? IMO, no. I can suggest where to start looking. Most foul shots taken per game.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

IMHO the "block"/'charge" call is a simple one, if the offense lowers their shoulder, leaning forward, it has to be a charge!
If the offense is straight up it's a block!
Of course if the defense is inside the arc it has to be a block!
It's a shame that many coaches "coach" the flop in practice trying to go around the rule!

 

[brownale]

Another one is the tie-up when a player is on the floor with the ball. The defensive player can jump on that player and never touch the ball and a tie-up in called every time.

 

[veryolddog]

I do not know what the correct answer to this question. However, I have see very clearly that a right handed person dribbling the ball or for that matter a left handed person use the alternate arm to push the defender away and the defender going to the floor. I have seen the defender called for a foul when I believe the offensive player should be called for that foul for using that arm to push the defender away. What is the correct answer?

 

[BRS24]

Did anyone notice one of the FSU guards moving when inbounding under their basket? It was not a scoring inbound, so players are supposed to plant both feet while inbounding, correct?

 

[Bone Dog]

Iirc, the block/charge rule is something like if the defender gets to the spot first it’s a charge, if not it’s a block. And if the offensive player lowers a shoulder it’s a charge regardless of who gets there first. But it can be tricky to tell exactly who gets to the spot first, and refs use some common indicators, like angles of contact and that sort of thing. This means it’s a judgment call with lots of room for disagreement.

Also, lowered shoulders aren’t always easy to see from every angle, which means refs can miss them. For example, in the Iowa game replays made it clear that Czinano lowered her shoulder when she hit Aaliyah. But the ref was under the basket and probably couldn’t see it. As a result, Aaliyah got called for a block.

 

[Biff]

Did anyone notice one of the FSU guards moving when inbounding under their basket? It was not a scoring inbound, so players are supposed to plant both feet while inbounding, correct?

No. The rule requires the player to not leave the "designated spot" but the feet can move. What constitutes leaving the "designated spot" is not clear to me however.

 

[Redux]

Another one is the tie-up when a player is on the floor with the ball. The defensive player can jump on that player and never touch the ball and a tie-up in called every time.

... and another one is the random pivot foot call, and another one is players pushed into other players and called for fouls and another one is ... on and on. That's the problem: too many, and everybody's got a pet peeve or two. I, for example, just love it when opponents (because UConn's defense is traditionally so tight) are sliding/twisting toe-to-heel their pivot foots like a dance step, with no calls, and then all of a sudden you get a series of totally legal but stuttering or "different" steps called (Edwards sometimes)! That "series" phenomenon is another issue in itself: one official sees traveling (or some other violation) out of the blue and then it becomes contagious for a few minutes only, then never to be seen again until the next series of something.

There's some kind of ongoing review by the NCAA of what is happening and ongoing training/advisories for officials. I think that kind of ongoing tweaking is the only practical (admittedly far from perfect) solution rather draconian rule changes like adding a flopping foul to the women's game.

 

[Biff]

Believe it or not this is one of this year's points of emphasis. From the r ule book:


Points of Emphasis

In each edition of the NCAA Women's Basketball Rules Book, several areas are given special attention. These are identified as points of emphasis. While they may not represent any rules changes, their importance must not be overlooked. In some cases, the points of emphasis are more critical than some of the rules changes. For example, when a topic is included in the points of emphasis, there has been evidence during the previous year(s) that there has been inconsistency in administering these areas. The Rules Committee has identified the following as significant concerns that need to be addressed because of their increased occurrence. They are not listed in order of importance; they are all important.

Reading the text doesn't give me an impression that, even though this is a point of emphasis, there is much of a clear plan for enforcement.

 

[sun]

I recently watched this year's game highlights of the Scar-UCLA game and saw Boston throw an elbow.
That was the 2nd time that I saw her throw one this year, the other being on national TV against Stanford.
I was disappointed to see such a highly rated player doing that and would hope that Coach Dawn would intruct her against doing that.
It's bad for her team if she gets caught doing that & gains a reputation for it.

 

[cohenzone]

A hand check pushes a player off balance and impedes movement. When it doesn't I see where it is appropriately ignored for the most part. A flop is a different animal in that players aren't touched at all or "obviously exaggerate" the impact of contact or initiate contact with a defender who is in a legal guarding position - even if they are moving.

If people fell backward onto their keisters with some of the marginal contact that sends big strong hoops defenders flying, people would be hitting the pavement in crowded Times Square at an uncountable rate. Exaggerating the contact sure works, though.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

I do not know what the correct answer to this question. However, I have see very clearly that a right handed person dribbling the ball or for that matter a left handed person use the alternate arm to push the defender away and the defender going to the floor. I have seen the defender called for a foul when I believe the offensive player should be called for that foul for using that arm to push the defender away. What is the correct answer?

To me, "forceful" displacement by either should be a foul. Right now. offensive players are getting away with murder.

 

[Bama fan]

Did the announcers say there was a difference in the mens game? Something about flopping being a foul? I seem to recall something about it but don't remember it clearly. Kind of like what is going on it soccer, a/k/a football. A player goes down, writhing in agony, 30 seconds later he is up and playing fine. I find it insulting to the fans and the game. As fake as the wrestling I loved as a kid in the 50's. I was crushed to find out Bruno Sammartino and the others were all scripted. I hated Gorilla Monsoon for no reason.

I grew up in Pittsburgh, and Bruno Sammartino was a local hero. My oldest brother had a job as a "towel boy" for the Studio Wrestling television show on the local NBC affiliate, WPXI. Bruno and many others were on weekly, along with "Ringside Rosie".