What should we expect from Facey going forward? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

What should we expect from Facey going forward?

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I think I have a much more positive view of Facey than many on this board. To me there are two questions:

1. Why didn't he play more? That's a concern, right?
I don't think so. Basically, we played small all year, with our 4 position manned by Daniels/Giffey and our 5 manned by a defensive-anchor big. Daniels/Giffey were so good at what they respectively did that carving out another roll at that spot probably would have been disruptive and redundant. And Facey just isn't big enough or on the same level as a help defender to act as the central rim protector. So IMO, given the aims of a very experienced team, he just got caught in the shuffle.

2. What has he shown?
Despite limited minutes, he has shown some real skill on both ends. He has finished difficult shots near the rim, he has canned some long 3's. He has handled the ball a bit. He appears to have great instincts on the boards, and has sent a few shots into the 3rd row.

So lets do the Pro's/Minuses based on what I have seen.

Pro
Good Finisher/body control
Solid Jumper/Good form
High Rebound rate/instincts
Aggressiveness

Con
High fouling rate
Defensive positioning/strength

Conclusion: I think skill-wise, he is going to be productive. He rebounds, he can finish, and he can shoot it. And those are the things you like to see, and are hardest to develop. The instincts are there. His weaknesses will improve with work. The fouling rate does not concern me at all, because he was never playing under any expectation of putting 20-30 minutes into a game, so it didn't matter if he picked up a couple. As far as defensive positioning you have to believe that is just a matter or reps and coaching. His lack of strength is concerning for 1:1 situations, but is something shared by each of our bigs this side of Lubin.
 
I think Facey will be a 8ppg, 6 rpg, and 1.5 bpg guy with solid defense (I know he struggled with this last year, but I think with his length, a year of college level experience, and good coaching he can be an asset on D). I think that's fair.
 
Facey's limited minutes at UConn were far more impressive than Lubin's high school video. With Facey having a year in the system learning defense and bulking up, I'd be amazed if Lubin could get ahead of Facey. Lubin strikes me as a development project who is going to have to master a role before he gets much playing time.

We know Phil Nolan can play the 4, in fact he's better there than at the 5, so Phil is Facey's main competition for time. We really have 3 players to cover 2 positions, with Nolan getting minutes at both. If Brimah can give 30 minutes without foul trouble, then it wouldn't be a surprise to see Nolan getting 30 also leaving only 20 for Facey. But I think it's more likely Brimah is limited to 25 minutes due to foul trouble or matchup issues, Facey wins the starting job and gets 25-30 minutes, and Nolan gets 25-30 split between the two positions. (Deduct ~10 minutes per game from these numbers because we will play small lineups with only one big on the floor.)

I'm not too concerned about numbers, if the perimeter players score effectively that will limit Facey's numbers, the key is his ability to defend and rebound.
 
I like Facey and choose to remain optimistic but we need a dose of reality on some points here.

Way too much has been drawn from his three 3 pointers of which he made 2.

Rate stats man very little when compiled over 123 minutes over the course of the season.

It seems that he's athletic enough to play on this level, but other than that it's tough to make conclusions or even hint at anything else based on the fact he played so little.

I've seen a few projections for 8/6 type production - people need to realize that Brimah and Phil COMBINED averaged 7/5 last season. If Facey comes near that I'd be thrilled.
 
"A dose of reality" - if Facey weren't ready to be a major contributor, KO would have gone to the mat for one of the 5th year transfers (considering we have 3 open scholarships). He didn't. He seems very comfortable with what he has at the 4/5, and that means he's very comfortable with a Facey/Nolan/Brimah trio.
 
pj said:
"A dose of reality" - if Facey weren't ready to be a major contributor, KO would have gone to the mat for one of the 5th year transfers (considering we have 3 open scholarships). He didn't. He seems very comfortable with what he has at the 4/5, and that means he's very comfortable with a Facey/Nolan/Brimah trio.
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Well KO did try to bring on Calvin Godfrey (Southern) and Darius Leonard (Campbell) as immediately eligible frontcourt transfers so it's not like he didn't explore his options. I feel like I'm in the minority being that I'm fine with our frontcourt as is with Brimah, Nolan, Facey & Lubin.

We will ask the most from Brimah in terms of development but the others are expected to be role players for this season, with Facey obviously capable of bringing more to the table if he's up for the challenge. We know what Nolan is at this point and Lubin is at the very least a big body who can bang down low, grab boards and use up some fouls
 
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pj said:
"A dose of reality" - if Facey weren't ready to be a major contributor, KO would have gone to the mat for one of the 5th year transfers (considering we have 3 open scholarships). He didn't. He seems very comfortable with what he has at the 4/5, and that means he's very comfortable with a Facey/Nolan/Brimah trio.
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As @Silk31 points out, we did try to go after some 5th year front court players but it didn't work out.

My point is people are making projections based on a handful of individual plays and using rate stats that don't mean much over such a small sample.

Another thing - I can't imagine Brimah and Phil being on the floor together so much as it kills spacing but I don't see much of an alternative.

I just think some people may be setting the bar too high. He could exceed expectations but nobody is gathering that based on 3 jumpers. As a sophomore Daniels averaged 12/5 for example. To jump from a non factor to 8/6 would require a huge leap.
 
It's all about his ability to defend for me. I know he can rebound and I don't really care about the scoring because we'll have enough on the perimeter and I can see an uptick from both Brimah and Nolan in that dept, but if he's learned how to rotate, defend the PnR, and hedge/recover properly while limiting fouls, then he can earn as many minutes at PF as he wants. That was really the biggest issue that I noticed with him last year was how lost he was on defense, hopefully more minutes and more reps can correct this. As for Lubin, its a very limited sample size of 2 full games viewed, but he scares the living hell out of me on the defensive end, dude was lazy and putting in very limited effort. He's going to have to be re-programmed because alot is asked of our bigs on the defensive end.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
I like Facey and choose to remain optimistic but we need a dose of reality on some points here.

Way too much has been drawn from his three 3 pointers of which he made 2.

Rate stats man very little when compiled over 123 minutes over the course of the season.

It seems that he's athletic enough to play on this level, but other than that it's tough to make conclusions or even hint at anything else based on the fact he played so little.

I've seen a few projections for 8/6 type production - people need to realize that Brimah and Phil COMBINED averaged 7/5 last season. If Facey comes near that I'd be thrilled.
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The idea that basketball players become less efficient with more playing time is generally a fallacy.

Even if his rebounding numbers get worse, it'll be a marginal decrease at most.
 
johnhuskies95 said:
The idea that basketball players become less efficient with more playing time is generally a fallacy.

Even if his rebounding numbers get worse, it'll be a marginal decrease at most.
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I'd love to see data that backs that up.

In general, I'd imagine 100 minutes of garbage time over a season wouldn't be a great indicator of future performance.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
I'd love to see data that backs that up.

In general, I'd imagine 100 minutes of garbage time over a season wouldn't be a great indicator of future performance.
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I remember first hearing about it in a video from Henry Abbott of TrueHoop. I'll try and find it.

In looking back at a lot of past UConn post players, almost never have their rebounding numbers gotten worse from their Freshman year, no matter the minutes they got.

Gavin Edwards is really the only example I can find. His ORB% numbers didn't really change but his DRB% went from about 18% his Freshman year to 13-14% over the rest of his career.
 
@johnhuskies95 Good stuff. I, for one, hope his rates stay the same or go up.

If nothing else, I'm very intrigued in how he'll fit in up here. Even though he's smaller height wise than Deandre, it seems he's more athletic to make up for being a short 4.
 
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I Bleed Blue said:
I think Facey will be a 8ppg, 6 rpg, and 1.5 bpg guy with solid defense (I know he struggled with this last year, but I think with his length, a year of college level experience, and good coaching he can be an asset on D). I think that's fair.
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Not a prayer...with the depth we have this year how can he possibly play more than 10 mins a game?
 
ConnHuskBask said:
@johnhuskies95 Good stuff. I, for one, hope his rates stay the same or go up.

If nothing else, I'm very intrigued in how he'll fit in up here. Even though he's smaller height wise than Deandre, it seems he's more athletic to make up for being a short 4.
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Kentan and DeAndre have both measured in at 6'8.5" in shoes at various camps, with Kelis Fisher having a 7'1" wingspan and DD 7'2". Kelis Fisher has pretty good size for a college 4, physically he's pretty much my ideal at the 4, long enough to deal with bigger bigs if a college team puts that out on the floor, while athletic enough to deal with the smaller types if a team goes with the stretch 4 type.
 
Kentan's biggest issue this year is going to be overcoming the perception of some on this board. If he were a 2014 recruit rather than a rising sophomore he'd have Boneyarders losing their collective minds with hyperbolic accolades and unwarranted hype based on a couple of youtube videos set to godawful instrumentals. Hell, Lubin's been talked about like he's got the size and in game demeanor of a power rangers villain and he's barely been above the Mason Dixon line. Facey was Mr. Basketball in NY, looked decent against the dregs of some poor teams and has had the benefit of a year in the system/in school. More importantly, he's maybe - maybe - the fourth option on offense, and on d, he's got the advantage of incredible rim protectors playing C and lighting quick and aggressive guards on the perimeter. He's going to be more than fine at doing what we ask him to do - rebounds, defense, some putbacks- something like Roscoe brought to the table.
 
Hysteria said:
Not a prayer...with the depth we have this year how can he possibly play more than 10 mins a game?
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I don't think we have great depth in the front court.
 
Hysteria said:
Not a prayer...with the depth we have this year how can he possibly play more than 10 mins a game?
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Who's going to play the other 30 minutes at PF? The only options are to go with 4 guards, 2 "centers" with Nolan at the 4, or Rakim Lubin.

Unless Lubin surprises us all, I think Facey's going to be given a pretty long leash early in the season. Brimah and Nolan are both so foul prone that it's hard to see how they can play together for long stretches at a time. If we get to the midway point of the season and Facey/Lubin prove they aren't ready, I'm sure Ollie will go with the "let's put our best 5 on the floor and let the other team figure out how to guard us" approach. But it's in everyone's best interest to throw Facey out there and see what he can do early in the season.
 
If I remember correctly, Kelis Fisher was a 4 star recruit, he showed positive, if brief, moments as a freshman. I expect him to have a pretty good year this year and be a more reliable starter next year. FWIW
 
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Don't see how he contributes that much--if Facey plays who sits?
Hamilton? Samuals, Calhoun ?

Put the best players on the floor for most of the minutes...so then...list our best players in order.
doesn't have to be an exact science so when do you get to Facey?

8th maybe?

third guy off the bench...how many minutes does the third guy off the bench get each game? 5?

not trying to be mean..he's a good player...he's up against better & in my opinion not ready for prime time this season. Hope I'm wrong
 
Hysteria said:
Don't see how he contributes that much--if Facey plays who sits?
Hamilton? Samuals, Calhoun ?

Put the best players on the floor for most of the minutes...so then...list our best players in order.
doesn't have to be an exact science so when do you get to Facey?

8th maybe?

third guy off the bench...how many minutes does the third guy off the bench get each game? 5?

not trying to be mean..he's a good player...he's up against better & in my opinion not ready for prime time this season. Hope I'm wrong
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Fine I'll answer your questions:

1. If Facey is playing, we are playing a traditional Line-up with 2 bigs, a wing, and 2 guards.
2. that is not how basketball works. players play positions.
3. 8th men usually are 10-20 min/game, but who's to say he's 8th? If he can score in the post and/or spread the floor with 3's, he will 100% be on the floor a whole lot at 6'8
 
Hysteria said:
Don't see how he contributes that much--if Facey plays who sits?
Hamilton? Samuals, Calhoun ?

Put the best players on the floor for most of the minutes...so then...list our best players in order.
doesn't have to be an exact science so when do you get to Facey?

8th maybe?

third guy off the bench...how many minutes does the third guy off the bench get each game? 5?

not trying to be mean..he's a good player...he's up against better & in my opinion not ready for prime time this season. Hope I'm wrong
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Ollie plays a pretty free-form style and he values positionless players but I don't think Samuels and Calhoun are the guys who are going to be stealing his minutes. You can't have a lineup where everybody's 6-3 or shorter. They're not exactly deep in the frontcourt.
 
As far as the defense for Facey. How did a Daniels look on defense his freshman year? How did Phil look on defense his freshman year? If Amida wasn't such a great shot blocker his defense would've looked bad too. But the two previous guys developed a lot on the defensive end after a summer in the college weight program and coaching from KO. I fully believe Facey will do the same thing with a better body and skillset than Phil or Daniels had, especially at the 4.
 
I have high hopes for the Face, but agree that people are underestimating the difficulty of putting up 8/6. That's not to say I don't think he's capable, but it would be an incredible uptick in contribution.

I expect Rock to get a lot of run guarding our substantial friend McBride during the UCF games...
 
breezy said:
I have high hopes for the Face, but agree that people are underestimating the difficulty of putting up 8/6. That's not to say I don't think he's capable, but it would be an incredible uptick in contribution.

I expect Rock to get a lot of run guarding our substantial friend McBride during the UCF games...
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I don't think that he has any skills deficiencies that would prevent him from hitting 8/6, as he averaged out to an 8/10 player/28 minutes. Obviously that's over a pretty small sample, but that's also not the issue. My concern with Facey, in fact my only concern with him, is will he be able to limit his fouls enough to play mid-20s minutes. If he's able to keep his fouls under control, he's going to get play because he's definitely our strongest rebounder, and he has enough offensive skills to hold his own at the 4.
 
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21 years old? who knew....I want to like him, but really can't see how he contributes much this season. Only five on the floor & there are other pretty darn good ones on our squad this year.
 
Hysteria said:
21 years old? who knew....I want to like him, but really can't see how he contributes much this season. Only five on the floor & there are other pretty darn good ones on our squad this year.
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He'll get very opportunity. Someone has to rebound. Don't really want Brimah (or Nolan) trying to block shots with four guards on the defensive glass.
 
Hysteria said:
21 years old? who knew....I want to like him, but really can't see how he contributes much this season. Only five on the floor & there are other pretty darn good ones on our squad this year.
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Facey will be fighting Brimah, Nolan and Lubin for minutes. Playing time is there for the taking.
 
Hysteria said:
21 years old? who knew....I want to like him, but really can't see how he contributes much this season. Only five on the floor & there are other pretty darn good ones on our squad this year.
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I respectfully disagree with this strongly. I like his game and believe he will contribute meaningfully, even if that means continuing to average more rebounds than points.. His attitude seems very positive and I like that he didn't sugarcoat the fact that anyone would be frustrated not playing much in his position. Go get 'em Kentan.
 
In general rebounding ability and stats tend to be more consistently replicated as a player moves up in a higher level of play. Players like Popeye Jones, Paul Milsap, Kenneth Faried were top notch rebounders at the mid-major level but this ability translated well to the NBA.
Facey averaged 1.7 rebounds in 5.1 minutes per game...over 20 minutes this would equal 6.67 rpg. So even if his rebounding rate drops off a bit, 6 rebounds per game doesn't seem out of reach. Now maybe he only averages 5 or 6 ppg instead of the 7 ppg that I predicted, he would still be a strong contributor provided he can play within the team concept, hustle and play solid defense.
 
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