What does the Big East hold for UConn, their constituents and revenue and prestige

[npignatjr]

A step back for the Women, football, most sports, driven by MBB, the NBE, small schools, old venues, few if any bright areas in the country to sell to recruits. The OBE UConn was one of many larger schools, not in the NBE, UConn will be the big fish in a perpetually small pond.

 

[DefenseBB]

A step back for the Women, football, most sports, driven by MBB, the NBE, small schools, old venues, few if any bright areas in the country to sell to recruits. The OBE UConn was one of many larger schools, not in the NBE, UConn will be the big fish in a perpetually small pond.

Given all the facts present of the NBE having 3 better teams than the AAC ever offered up, and ALL the NBE WCBB teams having better OOC schedules and a known commitment for basketball, what evidence do you propose to present to support your view that this is a step back for WCBB? Differing opinions are fine when you can show facts or data to support your view but just being contrarian is not a healthy dialogue.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

The Fri/Sun or Sat/Mon scheduling of league games works well for the PAC12 where the
conference teams all conveniently come in pairs so that travel between them is relatively
painless. To some extent the same could be said for the BE, although Creighton is a bit
of an outlier. Butler/Xavier and DePaul/Marquette fit the pattern nicely.

 

[DefenseBB]

The Fri/Sun or Sat/Mon scheduling of league games works well for the PAC12 where the
conference teams all conveniently come in pairs so that travel between them is relatively
painless. To some extent the same could be said for the BE, although Creighton is a bit
of an outlier. Butler/Xavier and DePaul/Marquette fit the pattern nicely.

So...what your saying is we need to add another Midwest team to the Big East? Too bad Cincinnati wants to compete in football (despite being a basketball school) otherwise I would say grab them...

Logistically, only Wichita State would make sense as they are not a football wanna be, have a basketball and baseball tradition that would certainly help the Big East on the Men's side. The women, not...so...much, as we have witnessed...

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

The Fri/Sun or Sat/Mon scheduling of league games works well for the PAC12 where the
conference teams all conveniently come in pairs so that travel between them is relatively
painless. To some extent the same could be said for the BE, although Creighton is a bit
of an outlier. Butler/Xavier and DePaul/Marquette fit the pattern nicely.

As was probably mentioned, the BE also has been operating in pairs.

Seton Hall / St. John's
DePaul / Marquette
Xavier / Butler
Georgetown / Villanova
and the odd-ball
Providence / Creighton

 

[ed4ourgirls]

As was probably mentioned, the BE also has been operating in pairs.

Seton Hall / St. John's
DePaul / Marquette
Xavier / Butler
Georgetown / Villanova
and the odd-ball
Providence / Creighton

Now, of course, Providence/UConn makes an easy weekend pair for the other teams.
Creighton just doesn't fit well anywhere.

 

[willtalk]

Even though the Big East has no teams on UConn's level. Some of the teams are still good enough to be able to knock off UConn on any given day. This was something that was not true of the AAC. The fact that the top team could be beaten on any given day, was an aspect that existed for every conference except the AAC. That pretty much made every conference game for UConn meaningless.

 

[Viet Vet]

From an old (72) UConn alum who grew up in the 50s/60s with Ivy League basketball, and played for Penn.

The Ivies have, for at least 60 years, scheduled league basketball according to a two-school tandem travel program. The eight schools are paired (Columbia/Cornell; Brown/Yale; Harvard/Dartmouth; Penn/Princeton) for travel, always Friday/Saturday. If Yale is at Penn on Friday, Brown is at Princeton. Saturday it's Brown at Penn, Yale at Princeton. Same/same, year-in, year-out. The consistency breeds continuity and familiarity. Controls travel costs, and gives fans an opportunity for two back-to-back home games against Ivy rivals.

As a UConn hockey season ticketholder, I'd like to see Hockey East go this route. Instead of playing BC at home on Friday, and then again Saturday in Boston, how about pairing up (we need a 12th team; hello Holy Cross). Imagine the following pairings: BC/BU; Northeastern/Providence; UMass Lowell/Merrimack; Maine/ UNH; Vermont/UMass; UConn/ Holy Cross. Then instead of playing BC in Hartford on Friday, and again in Boston on Saturday..………..we travel to Boston to play BC on Friday, BU on Saturday. Later in the season they both come to Hartford to play us back-to-back.

Big East basketball should consider a similar business model. Save on travel, give fans a home/home "two-for-one" weekend, and generate rivalry pairs. It works in the Ivies. Believe me, the road trip to Penn/Princeton is deadly.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Even though the Big East has no teams on UConn's level. Some of the teams are still good enough to be able to knock off UConn on any given day. This was something that was not true of the AAC. The fact that the top team could be beaten on any given day, was an aspect that existed for every conference except the AAC. That pretty much made every conference game for UConn meaningless.

Help me out here. UConn is 13-0 against DePaul in the last 14 years. beat Creighton by over 30 in one meeting, never lost to Marquette.

If you look at the oBE from '96 to '13, UConn lost 3 games to teams that are in the current BE - twice to Villanova and once to St. John's. And not at all to Georgetown, Seton Hall or Providence.

I don't really expect anyone but DePaul to be someone UConn will think is a possible threat.

 

[npignatjr]

Given all the facts present of the NBE having 3 better teams than the AAC ever offered up, and ALL the NBE WCBB teams having better OOC schedules and a known commitment for basketball, what evidence do you propose to present to support your view that this is a step back for WCBB? Differing opinions are fine when you can show facts or data to support your view but just being contrarian is not a healthy dialogue.

And just not for WCBB what large well funded schools with large modern venues are in the New Big East, in attractive places to impress recruits, Queens, South Orange, Omaha?

 

[npignatjr]

Even though the Big East has no teams on UConn's level. Some of the teams are still good enough to be able to knock off UConn on any given day. This was something that was not true of the AAC. The fact that the top team could be beaten on any given day, was an aspect that existed for every conference except the AAC. That pretty much made every conference game for UConn meaningless.

There were more competitive games in the AAC than there have been against the best NBE going back 10 plus years.

 

[DefenseBB]

There were more competitive games in the AAC than there have been against the best NBE going back 10 plus years.

And the facts you have to make this statement are exactly what? Considering the NBE could only have a handful of games outside of us competing against DePaul, not sure you have any substantial list of games to use as your comparison. Let's be honest, initially, yes, Louisville was in the AAC for a year, USF posed the best competition when Laksa was their but other than 1 Tulane game, NO, just no on your stance.

Nick, I am not trying to pick on you but what stats or games are you talking about?

 

[npignatjr]

They have played the best NBE team every year, closest game 10 points this year, was 26 late flurry brought it down. Have also played St Johns and Seton Hall besides this year few years back closest was StJ by 10. Yes I know STJ won in 2012, so 10 years was too far it should have been a parallel year comparison AAC - NBE. This year 1 game 7 points, 1 12, USF led at the half and into the 3rd quarter. You have noted the AAC besides UConn has better attendance. What makes you believe the NBE is trending up, building new facilities, across all sports, what for even minor relevance is going to happen to the football program? This is my opinion this move is driven by the MBB, a program for whatever reason has had some ethics issues. As a taxpayer of CT the state is paying millions to get out of the AAC, nothing fiscally responsible about that, the move makes the most expensive program to run, football, even more of a waste of money.

 

[willtalk]

Help me out here. UConn is 13-0 against DePaul in the last 14 years. beat Creighton by over 30 in one meeting, never lost to Marquette.

If you look at the oBE from '96 to '13, UConn lost 3 games to teams that are in the current BE - twice to Villanova and once to St. John's. And not at all to Georgetown, Seton Hall or Providence.

I don't really expect anyone but DePaul to be someone UConn will think is a possible threat.

Someone does not have to be a threat to be able to pull off an upset. A threat implies that they are good enough that a team has to bring either their A or B game. A team can be a threat to be able to pull an upset and still be a far lesser team. An example was Arizona St , who though a lesser team still was able to knock off both Oregons on the same weekend. No team in the AAC this season had a snowballs chance in hell of even upsetting UConn even if UConn brought their F game.

We also need to consider that UConn prestige should elevate all the teams in the Big East once they join. That certainly did not happen with respect to the teams in the ACC.

 

[DefenseBB]

Someone does not have to be a threat to be able to pull off an upset. A threat implies that they are good enough that a team has to bring either their A or B game. A team can be a threat to be able to pull an upset and still be a far lesser team. An example was Arizona St , who though a lesser team still was able to knock off both Oregons on the same weekend. No team in the AAC this season had a snowballs chance in hell of even upsetting UConn even if UConn brought their F game.

We also need to consider that UConn prestige should elevate all the teams in the Big East once they join. That certainly did not happen with respect to the teams in the ACC. AAC

We have heard the AAC coaches say they used having UConn in their conference as a recruiting ploy to prospective recruits (come see how good you are by competing against UConn) but it is definitely not something that translated well to the play on the court or in the annual recruit rankings. Attendance will increase for sure at all the schools. The honest test will be when any of the other BE schools can get their recruiting class ranked in the Top 20 and/or start garnering top 100 recruits on an annual basis. That's how the UConn "prestige" should be measured. I do think DePaul, Marquette and Creighton are fully committed to WCBB. We hope Villanova demonstrates the same commitment with their hire. But as some have noted, there are still a few BE schools who play in a high school gyms and seem to struggle giving the type of facilities and support needed to truly compete.

 

[npignatjr]

We have heard the AAC coaches say they used having UConn in their conference as a recruiting ploy to prospective recruits (come see how good you are by competing against UConn) but it is definitely not something that translated well to the play on the court or in the annual recruit rankings. Attendance will increase for sure at all the schools. The honest test will be when any of the other BE schools can get their recruiting class ranked in the Top 20 and/or start garnering top 100 recruits on an annual basis. That's how the UConn "prestige" should be measured. I do think DePaul, Marquette and Creighton are fully committed to WCBB. We hope Villanova demonstrates the same commitment with their hire. But as some have noted, there are still a few BE schools who play in a high school gyms and seem to struggle giving the type of facilities and support needed to truly compete.

which NBE schools have new large facilities, for Basketball, Baseball, Football, etc. Which have a student body somewhere in UConn's level? Large modern campuses? Already know that even without UCONN the AAC has better attendance for WCBB?
Even when you figure in the OBE years, which of the current Big East teams using the draw of playing, ND, LV, Rutgers, plus UCONN had top recruiting classes?
these are questions, can anyone help with factual answers?

 

[npignatjr]

Someone does not have to be a threat to be able to pull off an upset. A threat implies that they are good enough that a team has to bring either their A or B game. A team can be a threat to be able to pull an upset and still be a far lesser team. An example was Arizona St , who though a lesser team still was able to knock off both Oregons on the same weekend. No team in the AAC this season had a snowballs chance in hell of even upsetting UConn even if UConn brought their F game.

We also need to consider that UConn prestige should elevate all the teams in the Big East once they join. That certainly did not happen with respect to the teams in the ACC.

Talking only WCBB. This year 3 AAC teams stayed with UConn late into the games. When besides UConn, the Big East had ND and LV, the current teams still never elevated. UCONN is a large school mostly modern campus with modern athletic facilities, for the whole of the athletic department, which of the NBE schools in totality can compare?

 

[DefenseBB]

which NBE schools have new large facilities, for Basketball, Baseball, Football, etc. Which have a student body somewhere in UConn's level? Large modern campuses? Already know that even without UCONN the AAC has better attendance for WCBB?
Even when you figure in the OBE years, which of the current Big East teams using the draw of playing, ND, LV, Rutgers, plus UCONN had top recruiting classes?
these are questions, can anyone help with factual answers?

Why is it on the WCBB thread you keep posting items like football and other items about all the facilities? The NBE is pretty much solely about Basketball-men's basketball to be specific. What we think is happening is a commitment to WCBB as it can leverage what the MCBB has done. I get that you are a passionate UConn fan in all sports. The one sport that may be significantly hurt by the move is baseball as the NBE is not remotely close to the AAC. Don't even mention football as they were not even competitive in the AAC.

What I don't get with your posts is you lack any analytical or support for your criticism. I have posted numerous times about the attendance and what the OBE, the current AAC and the NBE all have done. UConn is the outlier in all of them with only ND having garnered anywhere near the fan support. Now Louisville is showing significant attendance improvement but that wasn't there in OBE. From a competitive perspective which is MORE IMPORTANT, the NBE offers significant improvement in terms of quality, opponents RPI and the commitment by the schools (other than Georgetown and PC) to get better. The AAC never has shown any improvement in the 7 years we were there so recruiting never occurred. With Duffy, Bruno, Geno and the new Marquette coach and hopefully the new Villanova coach, there are coaches who know you need to get the top 100 and are familiar with how to do. For gosh sakes just look at the pathetic commitment East Carolina, Tulane, Memphis, SMU, Witchita State all have going on. Heck, even UCF looks like it hired the wrong Albany coach. Houston has also been dreadful despite protestations they were committed to WCBB. So yes, I say goodbye and good riddance to the AAC!

Your constant criticism is not helpful as we are committed to the BE whether you like or not. There is upside, yet you drone on only about what you perceive as negatives. Show me compelling evidence, then maybe I would understand your view. Cite who has a lack of facilities and how that affects UConn's standing for WCBB, cite how Seton Hall's campus prevents them from having an Athletic department in the BLACK, unlike UConn's which has hemorrhaged money. Show me how Duke and WF with small student bodies can't compete? It's great to generate random questions without any support. I know you to be better than this. Please garner that poster I once knew...

 

[npignatjr]

Why is it on the WCBB thread you keep posting items like football and other items about all the facilities? The NBE is pretty much solely about Basketball-men's basketball to be specific. What we think is happening is a commitment to WCBB as it can leverage what the MCBB has done. I get that you are a passionate UConn fan in all sports. The one sport that may be significantly hurt by the move is baseball as the NBE is not remotely close to the AAC. Don't even mention football as they were not even competitive in the AAC.

What I don't get with your posts is you lack any analytical or support for your criticism. I have posted numerous times about the attendance and what the OBE, the current AAC and the NBE all have done. UConn is the outlier in all of them with only ND having garnered anywhere near the fan support. Now Louisville is showing significant attendance improvement but that wasn't there in OBE. From a competitive perspective which is MORE IMPORTANT, the NBE offers significant improvement in terms of quality, opponents RPI and the commitment by the schools (other than Georgetown and PC) to get better. The AAC never has shown any improvement in the 7 years we were there so recruiting never occurred. With Duffy, Bruno, Geno and the new Marquette coach and hopefully the new Villanova coach, there are coaches who know you need to get the top 100 and are familiar with how to do. For gosh sakes just look at the pathetic commitment East Carolina, Tulane, Memphis, SMU, Witchita State all have going on. Heck, even UCF looks like it hired the wrong Albany coach. Houston has also been dreadful despite protestations they were committed to WCBB. So yes, I say goodbye and good riddance to the AAC!

Your constant criticism is not helpful as we are committed to the BE whether you like or not. There is upside, yet you drone on only about what you perceive as negatives. Show me compelling evidence, then maybe I would understand your view. Cite who has a lack of facilities and how that affects UConn's standing for WCBB, cite how Seton Hall's campus prevents them from having an Athletic department in the BLACK, unlike UConn's which has hemorrhaged money. Show me how Duke and WF with small student bodies can't compete? It's great to generate random questions without any support. I know you to be better than this. Please garner that poster I once knew...

Answer paragraph by paragraph
UConn is not a MCBB school only. There is no evidence to support the NBE will suddenly become a force in WCBB. Football has to be mentioned, there was a time not that long ago it was becoming relevant, 1 and 0 against ND, bad coaching choices stopped that. Going forward it will continue to be irrelevant and hemorrhage more money. The move in my opinion guarantees that.
There was obvious improvement this year 3 separate schools were competitive into the 2nd half. That is a fact. Duffy is the new Marquette coach, the old one bailed on her alma mater to go to Penn State. Harry was a character. Maybe I am an optimist about the other AAC schools, there is more upside in those schools than NBE schools.
I asked which NBE schools have new athletic facilities, that is a question in search of an answer. Seton Hall is a small campus set in an urban community, old gym, I don't believe they have the full athletic environment as UConn. Definitely not the black hole that Is football. What makes you optimistic that schools that before were never able to attract top 100 even recruiting classes will start now?
I know it Is a done deal, nobody has ever come up with a compelling argument behind the change, if this was a move to the ACC, Big 10, even the A10 (there are some football teams there), OK I am not happy with paying millions of taxpayers money to get out. If I am generating a question, that means I am looking for an answer. Always open minded.
For reference I am from NJ, went to Seton Hall games in Walsh and the garden. Graduated HS with and played basketball with 2 guys that played with scholarships at Seton Hall. Used to attend the real NIT games. I believe most people not welcoming my questions about the move are trying to relive to OBE. The new one in my opinion is just as sad, for WCBB, as the AAC, and for most sports a step back.
I answer you because I actually value your thoughts and our banter.
Be safe, be smart, keep calm, question authority.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

You guys no that there is no definitive answer.

In the abstract - if you accept that football is not in the equation - improving the men's basketball situation, which everyone seems to agree that moving to the Big East will do - then that is a net benefit. How it affects the other sports except for Women's Basketball is largely not a huge consideration.

As to women's basketball the truth is we don't know, but the 2 most important points to me are:

1 - there are decent teams in the BE that seem to care about women's basketball than some of the AAC teams but most are only moderately more successful than the AAC teams (below a certain point of success, "it just doesn't matter").

2 - while it is not unreasonable to "want" or "hope" that teams will step up having UConn in their conference, the truth is that this didn't happen in the modern oBE. The successful teams of the oBE may or may not have benefitted by being in a conference with UConn, but those teams have moved on to other conferences.