What Do We Do In Practice? | Page 4 | The Boneyard

What Do We Do In Practice?

Boxing out on the free throws. Total lack of basic basketball skills. We needed those rebounds and gave WV the ball. Without Sanogo and Martin, we knew scoring would be tough, doing the little things: playing tough D, no fouls, limit turnovers, boxing out, working for good shots. They didn't do enough of the little things.
 
He isn't new though. He's a decade into his career and pushing 50. I think he is what he is... and what he is is a hell of a recruiter, talent manager, a hard worker, but not a game day coach. It is what it is.
He's now at a new level and higher level than ever before, and will be from here on out. I'll keep referring to this as his biggest challenge and his "growing edge," in a hopeful stance that I don't harden into seeing him like the many coaches I've hung with that tag over the years.

We see the same things, we want the same things. Coach sees them and wants them as well.
I don't really buy the excuse that we should give a pass to Hurley just because we're missing two key players. Nearly every player on this roster was a former top 100 recruit, the talent is there. He needs to find a way to win games where we are clearly the better team. It's even MORE puzzling because all we heard in the off-season was "45:07", yet we're just as bad this season at closing out games in big spots.
Yeah, the 45:07 has felt compromised. Coaches, players, and fans all have adjustments to make in order to be ever better as the season progresses. #Meliora!
 
we can say Hurley struggles late in games. But it’s also because we don’t have an alpha to slow the other team down. It’s not the final 4 minutes that are killing us, it’s the adjustments coaches are making to Cole at halftime.

We literally have no one we can be confident in to bring the ball up, create their own shot, or facilitate the offense through ball movement except Cole, and he’s 6’0 in shoes on a good day.

Really need improvement from Hawkins and AJax. Going into the season we were expecting strong minutes from 6 players we are not getting right now.(AJax, Hawkins, Diggins, gaffney, akok, polley)

Let's be honest, they're all VASTLY under performing compared to BY expectations. I believe things will change, but this team may not truly hit its stride until February
BY expectations and reality don't sync up much.

When they do come close, we are among the most joyous fans in sports.

This is a crucial time, in a season when all time will feel crucial. It was the first game this year that my sister sat down and watched w/full attention. I was watching on cable, not streaming, so I could txt back-and-forth without time lag. Watching through my own eyes, getting her fresh eyes POV, and 'brothersplaining' things in the context of having seen 8 prior games offered me too much to just say, "Same old, same old." Our job is to build a season one game at a time.
 
The only thing nobody can seem to answer is, how Hurleys coaching could've forced the shots to go in? It's not like the shots weren't open? What was he supposed to do? The defense was great, isn't that mostly coaching? Do yall even realize Andre was second on the team in made 3s today? Seems like coaching only gets brought up when things go wrong. Jim Calhoun didn't have some magic voo doo that made his players shots go in, the players did their part in executing open looks. Blame Hurley for not recruiting a transfer shooter if you need to blame him for that disaster. Even if his rotations are head scratching, not one player was making anything, so why does that matter in this case? Better sets and rotations weren't gonna solve our problems tonight.

39% FG, 3/21 14.3% from deep, 6/11 from the Free throw line, 55%. Never gonna win when players play this poorly.
Why do posters constantly do this? People aren't blaming Hurley for the horrid shooting and he gets praised for their defense. They're blaming him for cooling our hot shooter/best player, they're blaming him for poor offensive execution, they're blaming him for deer in the headlights/not adjusting when the opposing coach changes defenses on him, they're blaming him for having no out of bounds plays... There's recurring themes in all these games when they have a lead going into the final stretches of games which leads to the wheels coming off over and over again.
 
We had an alpha last year and had the same problems. It was probably worse.
I agree with you, but the team as a whole is much better this year...
let's just hope Hawkins' dribble can improve 10x by the end of BE play.
 
.-.
I agree with you, but the team as a whole is much better this year...
let's just hope Hawkins' dribble can improve 10x by the end of BE play.
His handle probably isn’t as bad as it looks. He’s just nervous as hell..or too excited, as the whole team is in crunch time. Is the amount of intensity within the team too much and guys can’t calm down and stay composed??? I don’t know. But it’s a big issue.
 
Last night it was clear to me that Cole felt the pressure of having to carry us a bit more than he should ever have to considering the talent that surrounds him, even without Martin and Sanogo in the lineup. Polley needs to watch more Rip Hamilton or Ray film and understand how to move without the basketball to get the open shot. Same with Hawkins, as previous posters have stated, the kid is a liability when he puts the ball on the floor. Andre had a pretty good game, in my opinion. Just needs to get under control a bit more and learn what a jump stop is, but wasn't too upset about his play overall. And yes, not rebounding on free throws when you're on defense is how you lose close games. Prognosis: We'll be fine.
 
He isn't new though. He's a decade into his career and pushing 50. I think he is what he is... and what he is is a hell of a recruiter, talent manager, a hard worker, but not a game day coach. It is what it is.
I think you should be the coach.
 
Why do posters constantly do this? People aren't blaming Hurley for the horrid shooting and he gets praised for their defense. They're blaming him for cooling our hot shooter/best player, they're blaming him for poor offensive execution, they're blaming him for deer in the headlights/not adjusting when the opposing coach changes defenses on him, they're blaming him for having no out of bounds plays... There's recurring themes in all these games when they have a lead going into the final stretches of games which leads to the wheels coming off over and over again.
They are blaming him for losing. If I had a nickel for every "This is on Hurley" post on here or on the chat I could retire. It's become the kneejerk reaction whether it's all his fault , partially his fault, or not his fault at all. Losing has been a group effort. Hurley has his share as you stated above, but some things are just beyond his control. So the narrative is Hurley is responsible for stinking at the end of games. Not saying there isn't some truth there but last night in the last few minutes Gaffney tripped over his own feet and turned the ball over, we had a shot clock violation where several players passed up decent shots and were unaware of the time on the shot clock, Polley, a 5th year senior, shoots a desperate turn around 3 with a reset shot clock, and Akok forgets to put a body the guy he is supposed to block out after a missed foul shot. That's four major gaffes in the last few minutes that contributed to the loss. A coach can only do so much micro managing. At some point the players have to not turn into mash potatos as well and show they can play smart. and execute basic fundamentals. The ironic thing is he gets hammered for in game coaching and his team building is as much at fault. While Hurley and his staff are excellent recruiters and get lauded for that on here(as they should), he has struggled putting together a team that is well rounded in all areas and fits together. We are thin in the area of ball handling, creating, shooting and generally skilled basketball players. If we had another handler/creator and could shoot even a lick my guess is suddenly his coaching at the end of games wouldn't look so bad. Ollie was a genius with Bazz & Boat. Not so much after. Funny how that happened. Coaches need players to look good most of the time and defensive coaches like Hurley need them more than most. We knew he wasn't a great offensive mind coming in.
 
But the whole nobody wanting to shoot is coaching and practicing plays to pihtnwhere players are comfortable shooting the ball in the right spots.
Too often isnthe wrong player with the ball in the wrong spot as shot clock winds down. That is all coaching from play designs, to practicing to identifying which players are successful in which spots. Last night was a constant square peg and round hole.
This is what people have a hard time understanding
 
.-.
They are blaming him for losing. If I had a nickel for every "This is on Hurley" post on here or on the chat I could retire. It's become the kneejerk reaction whether it's all his fault , partially his fault, or not his fault at all. Losing has been a group effort. Hurley has his share as you stated above, but some things are just beyond his control. So the narrative is Hurley is responsible for stinking at the end of games. Not saying there isn't some truth there but last night in the last few minutes Gaffney tripped over his own feet and turned the ball over, we had a shot clock violation where several players passed up decent shots and were unaware of the time on the shot clock, Polley, a 5th year senior, shoots a desperate turn around 3 with a reset shot clock, and Akok forgets to put a body the guy he is supposed to block out after a missed foul shot. That's four major gaffes in the last few minutes that contributed to the loss. A coach can only do so much micro managing. At some point the players have to not turn into mash potatos as well and show they can play smart. and execute basic fundamentals. The ironic thing is he gets hammered for in game coaching and his team building is as much at fault. While Hurley and his staff are excellent recruiters and get lauded for that on here(as they should), he has struggled putting together a team that is well rounded in all areas and fits together. We are thin in the area of ball handling, creating, shooting and generally skilled basketball players. If we had another handler/creator and could shoot even a lick my guess is suddenly his coaching at the end of games wouldn't look so bad. Ollie was a genius with Bazz & Boat. Not so much after. Funny how that happened. Coaches need players to look good most of the time and defensive coaches like Hurley need them more than most. We knew he wasn't a great offensive mind coming in.
The in-game execution that people are talking about isn't just a momentary thing. Or really a micro managing thing. It's a cultural thing - one that's built by practice focus, and repetition. People talked about Calhoun's infamous rebounding drill throughout most of his career. Its no wonder that Calhoun's teams were among the leaders in the nation when it came to rebounding...or why his teams got big rebounds when they needed them in big games. By that point it was habit/muscle memory. And its why he was maniacal in cupcake games when the game was long in-hand. He knew that if he let guys take games/plays/situation off, it would come back to bite them in big moments deeper into the season. JC's teams were at their BEST in big moments (close games in the last 5 minutes). We were mentally tougher than just about everyone we played - which is really what execution is all about.

I'm not asking Hurley to be JC, but do you think Polley would have taken that shot if JC were coaching? No because he would have faced the wrath of JC much earlier in his career and learned that shots like that were a quick ticket to the end of the bench. I get that mistakes and brain farts happen (see Roscoe Smith) and maybe the Polley shot was just that...but execution gets built over time and in situations where winning isn't necessarily on the line. It then gets hardened by big moments. Unlike JC, when it's "winning time," we seem to be the deer in the headlights and these little things all seem to happen. More frequently than not.

When players turn into mashed potatoes (to use your words above), and when they constantly do it in big moments in big games...thats exactly what coaching is about.
 
We talkin' 'bout practice?

OK, so here's some practice, and much of this can be "after hours" outside of organized team practice:
  • Have Jackson guard Cole 1 on 1 for 20 minutes. Jackson needs to read body movement and move his feet quicker, and trying to do that on a guy quicker than him is the best way to train that. He won't be guarding a small quick point guard in games, but the guys he will be on will look much slower. Same thing for Hawkins. As an aside, have them watch Whaley move his feet on D- he's awesome at it.
  • Hawkins, Gaffney, Polley, Jackson all should handle the ball full court against pressuring man to man. Why? Because teams will try to force Cole to give it up, and these guys need to be able to attack the D when they do. The goal can't just be to get it over the timeline, now the shot clock is the 6th defender.
  • Rebounding - shot goes up, goal is for all five defenders to get their butt on a guy and let the ball fall to the floor untouched. No offensive players anywhere near the ball. Rinse, repeat, until it's consistent.
 
A few observations
27-11 free throw advantage for WVU. Some home cooking there.
Cole was 6-17, 2-8 from 3, and had 5 TO's He's our best player but certainly didn't have a hot hand last night.
UConn let Sherman get to his right hand all night. That's on the players and the staff.
AJax thrills and frustrates every possession. His D may eventually be elite but isn't right now. Check out his box out(not) of Sherman at the 5:22 mark of the second half.
I put the late game failures on the coaching staff not the players.
 
The in-game execution that people are talking about isn't just a momentary thing. Or really a micro managing thing. It's a cultural thing - one that's built by practice focus, and repetition. People talked about Calhoun's infamous rebounding drill throughout most of his career. Its no wonder that Calhoun's teams were among the leaders in the nation when it came to rebounding...or why his teams got big rebounds when they needed them in big games. By that point it was habit/muscle memory. And its why he was maniacal in cupcake games when the game was long in-hand. He knew that if he let guys take games/plays/situation off, it would come back to bite them in big moments deeper into the season. JC's teams were at their BEST in big moments (close games in the last 5 minutes). We were mentally tougher than just about everyone we played - which is really what execution is all about.

I'm not asking Hurley to be JC, but do you think Polley would have taken that shot if JC were coaching? No because he would have faced the wrath of JC much earlier in his career and learned that shots like that were a quick ticket to the end of the bench. I get that mistakes and brain farts happen (see Roscoe Smith) and maybe the Polley shot was just that...but execution gets built over time and in situations where winning isn't necessarily on the line. It then gets hardened by big moments. Unlike JC, when it's "winning time," we seem to be the deer in the headlights and these little things all seem to happen. More frequently than not.

When players turn into mashed potatoes (to use your words above), and when they constantly do it in big moments in big games...thats exactly what coaching is about.
Hurley's practices are notoriously tough. Hurley Sr and JC, both have been at and witnessed many practices and a National Championship assistant in Tom Moore who coached under JC is on the staff. I would think they would point out to Dan Hurley if he wasn't focusing on the correct things.

Perhaps the players turn into mashed potatos because we struggle so much in certain areas, specifically offensively and ball handling, and that is magnified at the end of games when teams have timeouts, set strategic and specific defenses, and players are get rests during those timeouts and really dig in to get stops. Young people make mistakes, especially when they are deficient in areas. Polley I think was a brain fart, Gaffney tripped over his own feet. I guess nobody ever tripped under JC. I have to think Hurley does a box out/rebounding drill. We are a good rebounding team but neither of us are at practice. Again he is not without blame but our roster as constructed leaves little margin for error and the players struggle in these situations as well. BOTH players and coaches have to get better. This is like the Hawkins turnover against Auburn. A bunch of the know it all armchair coaches screaming for him to be in the game. Hurley was "cooling" him. He comes in and turns the ball over and Auburn puts the game into another OT. The same people were like " I guess that's why you don't have a freshman in there, oopsie." Last night people were acting like it wasn't a common practice to give a rest to your best player when you have a cushion as opposed to a deficet. Pretty much everyone does that. Cole hit 2 shots(admittedly a hot streak for us last night). He wasn't going berzerk NBA jam style. Our run had as much to do with WV going cold and playing sloppy. I do agree Cole should have been inserted after the timeout by WV. Hurley got free time for Cole with that timeout and got unnecessarily greedy.
 
He isn't new though. He's a decade into his career and pushing 50. I think he is what he is... and what he is is a hell of a recruiter, talent manager, a hard worker, but not a game day coach. It is what it is.
Like someone said in another thread...he needs his own George Blaney. Someone with high level experience in all facets of the game to guide him through these situations.
 
Like someone said in another thread...he needs his own George Blaney. Someone with high level experience in all facets of the game to guide him through these situations.

That is Tom. Hurley might just not be willing to listen. He's high strung
 
.-.
They are blaming him for losing. If I had a nickel for every "This is on Hurley" post on here or on the chat I could retire. It's become the kneejerk reaction whether it's all his fault , partially his fault, or not his fault at all. Losing has been a group effort. Hurley has his share as you stated above, but some things are just beyond his control. So the narrative is Hurley is responsible for stinking at the end of games. Not saying there isn't some truth there but last night in the last few minutes Gaffney tripped over his own feet and turned the ball over, we had a shot clock violation where several players passed up decent shots and were unaware of the time on the shot clock, Polley, a 5th year senior, shoots a desperate turn around 3 with a reset shot clock, and Akok forgets to put a body the guy he is supposed to block out after a missed foul shot. That's four major gaffes in the last few minutes that contributed to the loss. A coach can only do so much micro managing. At some point the players have to not turn into mash potatos as well and show they can play smart. and execute basic fundamentals. The ironic thing is he gets hammered for in game coaching and his team building is as much at fault. While Hurley and his staff are excellent recruiters and get lauded for that on here(as they should), he has struggled putting together a team that is well rounded in all areas and fits together. We are thin in the area of ball handling, creating, shooting and generally skilled basketball players. If we had another handler/creator and could shoot even a lick my guess is suddenly his coaching at the end of games wouldn't look so bad. Ollie was a genius with Bazz & Boat. Not so much after. Funny how that happened. Coaches need players to look good most of the time and defensive coaches like Hurley need them more than most. We knew he wasn't a great offensive mind coming in.
You just mentioned a ton of things that a Coach can have a direct impact on. If he can't impact these issues why have a coach?
 
You just mentioned a ton of things that a Coach can have a direct impact on. If he can't impact these issues why have a coach?
I am mentioning issues that both coaches AND players can have an impact on. That is why I mention both need to be bettter. I just don't solely blame the coaches for everything after every loss. Also, coaching can't stop a guy from tripping over his own feet or a player maybe thinking the ball didn't hit the rim and hucking up a panicked 3. A coach can run all the box out drills in the world. Doesn't ensure a player always boxes out like a cyborg. Players are going to still make untimely mistakes. It's an imperfect world and the players are human. The coach has influence but he can't control every little thing that happens on the court in real time.
 
Why do posters constantly do this? People aren't blaming Hurley for the horrid shooting and he gets praised for their defense. They're blaming him for cooling our hot shooter/best player, they're blaming him for poor offensive execution, they're blaming him for deer in the headlights/not adjusting when the opposing coach changes defenses on him, they're blaming him for having no out of bounds plays... There's recurring themes in all these games when they have a lead going into the final stretches of games which leads to the wheels coming off over and over again.
It’s infuriating. We all get the players missed the shots. But you can’t ignore the recurring pattern of disorganization and total fear in crunch time. A well coached team does not commit multiple shot clock violations in late game situations. Or throw crazy high risk passes in close games. We have NO clue in close games late. That’s coaching, pure and simple.
 
Hurley's practices are notoriously tough. Hurley Sr and JC, both have been at and witnessed many practices and a National Championship assistant in Tom Moore who coached under JC is on the staff. I would think they would point out to Dan Hurley if he wasn't focusing on the correct things.

Perhaps the players turn into mashed potatos because we struggle so much in certain areas, specifically offensively and ball handling, and that is magnified at the end of games when teams have timeouts, set strategic and specific defenses, and players are get rests during those timeouts and really dig in to get stops. Young people make mistakes, especially when they are deficient in areas. Polley I think was a brain fart, Gaffney tripped over his own feet. I guess nobody ever tripped under JC. I have to think Hurley does a box out/rebounding drill. We are a good rebounding team but neither of us are at practice. Again he is not without blame but our roster as constructed leaves little margin for error and the players struggle in these situations as well. BOTH players and coaches have to get better. This is like the Hawkins turnover against Auburn. A bunch of the know it all armchair coaches screaming for him to be in the game. Hurley was "cooling" him. He comes in and turns the ball over and Auburn puts the game into another OT. The same people were like " I guess that's why you don't have a freshman in there, oopsie." Last night people were acting like it wasn't a common practice to give a rest to your best player when you have a cushion as opposed to a deficet. Pretty much everyone does that. Cole hit 2 shots(admittedly a hot streak for us last night). He wasn't going berzerk NBA jam style. Our run had as much to do with WV going cold and playing sloppy. I do agree Cole should have been inserted after the timeout by WV. Hurley got free time for Cole with that timeout and got unnecessarily greedy.
From what Chief has seen, Hurley’s practices are physically tough. I would even maintain too physically tough for in season. Calhoun, with a few exceptions took his foot off the gas peddle during the In season practices because he didn’t want the team to physically wear down and get injuried. The physical conditioning had already been built as had the toughness in pre-season.

What I think is missing is the skill and mental aspect. Why do guys look so uncomfortable taking 3’s, be they wide open in space or a crazy rushed well defended 3?

Why do we panic and make a litany of poor mental choices down the stretch?

Usually by this point in many of their careers you know what their sweet spots are, the 2 or 3 spots a player has practiced a shot so much and developed such proficiency, he has supreme confidence in it and his teammates do too and plays are run and teammates get him the ball in those spots. Other than Sanogo’s jump hook at 5 feet (not 10 feet) and RJ mid range pop, I don’t see it. Hawkins may be a good potential shooter, but can anyone tell me his favorite spot? What I have seen in practice, my guess is the elbow 3, where you extend the foul line out to the three line.

As for Tom Moore, Chief always thought he was elite at taking an offensive weapon away from an opponent. Less so at exploiting his own weapon against an opponent.
 

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