What are your expectations for Polley?

[kcc1442]

As usual I agree with a lot of what Ricker says here. Polleys best position at the college level is most likely the stretch 4. He certainly could be a 3 but having him as a stretch 4 adds to his versatility and enables us to get more ball handlers on the court. However, he needs to get stronger, more confident and especially more aggressive and assertive on the boards. He is definitely in the mold of DD and DD looked similarly lost in his freshman year. And with that said DD was never described as anything other than a string bean while at UConn. So weight will help but is not a sole determining factor on whether he can be effective as a role player or even 2/3 star player. I could see his shot developing just as DDs did. SO there is plenty of hope to still be had.

But the most successful teams in college basketball these days are teams that have a minimum of 4 guys on the court at once who can space the court to at least 18-20 feet. And some like Nova, Michigan, Duke, Cincy would have their entire starting 5 stretch the floor and many others (Michigan St., Loyola, Gonzaga, Kansas, Texas Tech, Purdue etc) could make one sub, take out their big lug, and have 5 guys shooting from the perimeter. All very successful teams this year.

For us, some people are stating how guys like Diarra, and Williams, Whaley and Yawke are better suited for the 4 position but if you put any two of them on the floor together or match them up with a 5 in Cobb and or Carlton, you become limited with what you can do offensively. It takes away driving lanes for the guards because the bigs can sag off on D. And none of those players are worth scripting a "feed the post and let him go to work--back to the basket" type offense. I think its imperative to have a stretch 4 in todays college game and Polley certainly can be that. His shot improved towards the end of the year and he displayed flashes. Hopefully with new coaching he will take his game to another level. We need to be able to play him on the same floor as Sid and Sid doesn't have the length to play the 4 for sure. Would love to see Polley at 9 and 5 a game with 22-25 mpg next year. He has the ability.

 

[UconnU]

As usual I agree with a lot of what Ricker says here. Polleys best position at the college level is most likely the stretch 4. He certainly could be a 3 but having him as a stretch 4 adds to his versatility and enables us to get more ball handlers on the court. However, he needs to get stronger, more confident and especially more aggressive and assertive on the boards. He is definitely in the mold of DD and DD looked similarly lost in his freshman year. And with that said DD was never described as anything other than a string bean while at UConn. So weight will help but is not a sole determining factor on whether he can be effective as a role player or even 2/3 star player. I could see his shot developing just as DDs did. SO there is plenty of hope to still be had.

But the most successful teams in college basketball these days are teams that have a minimum of 4 guys on the court at once who can space the court to at least 18-20 feet. And some like Nova, Michigan, Duke, Cincy would have their entire starting 5 stretch the floor and many others (Michigan St., Loyola, Gonzaga, Kansas, Texas Tech, Purdue etc) could make one sub, take out their big lug, and have 5 guys shooting from the perimeter. All very successful teams this year.

For us, some people are stating how guys like Diarra, and Williams, Whaley and Yawke are better suited for the 4 position but if you put any two of them on the floor together or match them up with a 5 in Cobb and or Carlton, you become limited with what you can do offensively. It takes away driving lanes for the guards because the bigs can sag off on D. And none of those players are worth scripting a "feed the post and let him go to work--back to the basket" type offense. I think its imperative to have a stretch 4 in todays college game and Polley certainly can be that. His shot improved towards the end of the year and he displayed flashes. Hopefully with new coaching he will take his game to another level. We need to be able to play him on the same floor as Sid and Sid doesn't have the length to play the 4 for sure. Would love to see Polley at 9 and 5 a game with 22-25 mpg next year. He has the ability.

Very good analysis! My only quabble would be that, match up permitting, I do see Wilson getting some time at the 4.

The system that Hurley, and most other college coaches, plays now with that 4 ball handler spacing dribble drive motion offense is that you really need a talented 4. Someone who is long that can defend a traditional 4 as well as handle the ball and shoot on the perimeter. It's an extremely important position in this offense. It is imperative that Polley gains weight without losing his agility, he needs to add lean muscle mass. I'm sure the coaching staff is already working with him on this.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Hurley started a 6 foot 4 guard at the 4 last year. Polley would have been the tallest player in his rotation if he were on URI's team last season. Hurley likes small ball. Zero chance he gets time at the 2 next year.

Because he didn’t have anybody else. I wish people would stop with this nonsense that he doesn’t want to play bigger guys. When he has had them, he played them. If he had Diarra last year, he would have played him. If we play small ball next year, our team will stink. That’s not the roster he has. I don’t think it’s even his preference. He’s merely adapted to the players he has.

That’s encouraging, because Ollie didn’t. Polley at the 4 would be a huge mistake.

 

[HuskyHawk]

As usual I agree with a lot of what Ricker says here. Polleys best position at the college level is most likely the stretch 4. He certainly could be a 3 but having him as a stretch 4 adds to his versatility and enables us to get more ball handlers on the court. However, he needs to get stronger, more confident and especially more aggressive and assertive on the boards. He is definitely in the mold of DD and DD looked similarly lost in his freshman year. And with that said DD was never described as anything other than a string bean while at UConn. So weight will help but is not a sole determining factor on whether he can be effective as a role player or even 2/3 star player. I could see his shot developing just as DDs did. SO there is plenty of hope to still be had.

But the most successful teams in college basketball these days are teams that have a minimum of 4 guys on the court at once who can space the court to at least 18-20 feet. And some like Nova, Michigan, Duke, Cincy would have their entire starting 5 stretch the floor and many others (Michigan St., Loyola, Gonzaga, Kansas, Texas Tech, Purdue etc) could make one sub, take out their big lug, and have 5 guys shooting from the perimeter. All very successful teams this year.

For us, some people are stating how guys like Diarra, and Williams, Whaley and Yawke are better suited for the 4 position but if you put any two of them on the floor together or match them up with a 5 in Cobb and or Carlton, you become limited with what you can do offensively. It takes away driving lanes for the guards because the bigs can sag off on D. And none of those players are worth scripting a "feed the post and let him go to work--back to the basket" type offense. I think its imperative to have a stretch 4 in todays college game and Polley certainly can be that. His shot improved towards the end of the year and he displayed flashes. Hopefully with new coaching he will take his game to another level. We need to be able to play him on the same floor as Sid and Sid doesn't have the length to play the 4 for sure. Would love to see Polley at 9 and 5 a game with 22-25 mpg next year. He has the ability.

Yes it’s a nice benefit to have a 4 who can shoot and handle the ball. The Celtics are playing that style. But they obtained those players specifically for that system, and those guys who are 6’-8”-6’10” who can shoot, rebound, defend outside and inside and handle the ball are rare. They are rare even in the NBA. They are beyond rare in college. We don’t have any of them. Polley isn’t one. He will get absolutely murdered trying to defend a traditional PF, as Larrier did last year. It was one of KOs biggest mistakes.

You are talking about guys like Donyell Marshall, Daniels, Burrell and Rudy Gay. All of whom were first round draft picks. The last two of which mostly played SF for UConn. Cliff Robinson was probably our first guy like that and he split time between the 4-5.

You can run that system if you have the players and that includes having a monster rim protector at the 5 and oversized guards. Hurley may be trying to recruit such a team, but he doesn’t have one now. It will be extremely difficult for him to build such a team.

 

[Sphinx]

Because he didn’t have anybody else. I wish people would stop with this nonsense that he doesn’t want to play bigger guys. When he has had them, he played them. If he had Diarra last year, he would have played him. If we play small ball next year, our team will stink. That’s not the roster he has. I don’t think it’s even his preference. He’s merely adapted to the players he has.

That’s encouraging, because Ollie didn’t. Polley at the 4 would be a huge mistake.

Agree. I'm usually on the same page with the OP but can't see Polley at the 4, not to mention Wilson -- a wispy-looking 6-6. I question the notion that you can overcome a deficit in 4-5 muscle by creating match-up problems. These are positions where the match-up advantage seldom goes to the matchstick. Really hope Diarra is given a full opportunity at the 4.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Agree. I'm usually on the same page with the OP but can't see Polley at the 4, not to mention Wilson -- a wispy-looking 6-6. I question the notion that you can overcome a deficit in 4-5 muscle by creating match-up problems. These are positions where the match-up advantage seldom goes to the matchstick. Really hope Diarra is given a full opportunity at the 4.

The match up problems occur when you have somebody exceptional. Yes, Josh Jackson at the 4 for Kansas created match-up problems. But his length and athleticism allowed him to rebound and defend despite bulk. Spellman last year for Nova...matchup problem at at 6'9' 260 pounds, with the ability to hit from outside. You have to put a big on him, and that big has to be able to defend him outside and in. Almost impossible for most college teams.

But we can't pretend that we create match-up problems for anybody butUConn by playing a Larrier or Polley at a position where they can't defend or rebound against most of their opponents. A stretch 4 isn't a stringbean 3 playing the 4, it's a legit PF sized guy who can handle and shoot from outside. Al Horford is a classic example.

Ironically, the guy on this roster closest to being able to do what OP wants at the 4 is Cobb. If you can get him to play within the system, get better as a shooter and improve his athleticism a little, he has the skill set to go inside-outside. What Polley can be, if he gets better, is a Miles Bridges type of 3, long, high release point, and very hard for the 6'4-5" 3's most teams have to defend. I've seen no indication that Diarra can shoot from 3, but if he develops that shot, he's a potential stretch 4. Meanwhile he needs to play anyway, because he rebounds, runs the floor and can score around the rim.

 

[RipCity]

Spot up shooter. Hopefully he grabs more boards. Still don’t see him being a big factor before his junior year. Needs at least another year of hitting the weight room.

 

[Huskybass]

Because he didn’t have anybody else. I wish people would stop with this nonsense that he doesn’t want to play bigger guys. When he has had them, he played them. If he had Diarra last year, he would have played him. If we play small ball next year, our team will stink. That’s not the roster he has. I don’t think it’s even his preference. He’s merely adapted to the players he has.

That’s encouraging, because Ollie didn’t. Polley at the 4 would be a huge mistake.

Agreed. When I think of a 4, I think of a guy like Jeff Adrien, not someone built like Rip Hamilton. There should be plenty of ball handlers and distributors at PG, SG and SF. The 4 should be tough down low, not a guard wannabee.

 

[YoungFree]

Simple:

Don't let a small guard be the leading rebounder on the team.

 

[kcc1442]

Yes it’s a nice benefit to have a 4 who can shoot and handle the ball. The Celtics are playing that style. But they obtained those players specifically for that system, and those guys who are 6’-8”-6’10” who can shoot, rebound, defend outside and inside and handle the ball are rare. They are rare even in the NBA. They are beyond rare in college. We don’t have any of them. Polley isn’t one. He will get absolutely murdered trying to defend a traditional PF, as Larrier did last year. It was one of KOs biggest mistakes.

You are talking about guys like Donyell Marshall, Daniels, Burrell and Rudy Gay. All of whom were first round draft picks. The last two of which mostly played SF for UConn. Cliff Robinson was probably our first guy like that and he split time between the 4-5.

You can run that system if you have the players and that includes having a monster rim protector at the 5 and oversized guards. Hurley may be trying to recruit such a team, but he doesn’t have one now. It will be extremely difficult for him to build such a team.

I didn't say handle. That's an added bonus, especially at the college level. But a stretch 4 is not rare at all. Certainly not in the NBA and not in college ball either. I gave you a list of many college teams earlier that have them. I can give you names too of college players but it take more effort. Easily off the top of my head in the NBA their are plenty of guys like A. Davis, Ryan Anderson, Al Horford, Kevin Love, Draymond, Kelly Olynk, Dario Saric, Morris twins, Aldridge, and the list goes on. Hell there is plenty of stretch 5's in the NBA game (Porzingis, Dirk, Gasol, Embiid) All of those guys are more plus outside shooters.

 

[kcc1442]

Agreed. When I think of a 4, I think of a guy like Jeff Adrien, not someone built like Rip Hamilton. There should be plenty of ball handlers and distributors at PG, SG and SF. The 4 should be tough down low, not a guard wannabee.

The game is changing and evolving. Don't get left behind.

 

[Danzz]

The game is changing and evolving. Don't get left behind.

Teams still have to rebound and that isn't happening playing 4 players 6'4" and under.

 

[kcc1442]

Teams still have to rebound and that isn't happening playing 4 players 6'4" and under.

ok. not sure how that is a relevant argument. But ok. You realize we, or at least I, was talking about playing the 6'9 Tyler Polley at the 4. Not Sure why 6'4 became the mark???

 

[Huskybass]

The game is changing and evolving. Don't get left behind.

We play 175 pound guys at the 4 and dont even make the NIT. Nova played a 250 pound guy at the 4 and just won their second NCAA championship in 3 seasons. Having some strength, toughness and rebounding down low is certainly an asset.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I didn't say handle. That's an added bonus, especially at the college level. But a stretch 4 is not rare at all. Certainly not in the NBA and not in college ball either. I gave you a list of many college teams earlier that have them. I can give you names too of college players but it take more effort. Easily off the top of my head in the NBA their are plenty of guys like A. Davis, Ryan Anderson, Al Horford, Kevin Love, Draymond, Kelly Olynk, Dario Saric, Morris twins, Aldridge, and the list goes on. Hell there is plenty of stretch 5's in the NBA game (Porzingis, Dirk, Gasol, Embiid) All of those guys are more plus outside shooters.

Yes. But note that those guys are merely very large PFs and Centers, who happen to be able to shoot. Polley is a straight up wing. He isn't equipped to play as a PF in any respect. So he's not a stretch 4 because he has no inside game or ability to defend the post at all.

 

[Danzz]

ok. not sure how that is a relevant argument. But ok. You realize we, or at least I, was talking about playing the 6'9 Tyler Polley at the 4. Not Sure why 6'4 became the mark???

Polley is listed at 6'8" 190 lbs. which means he is probably closer to 6'7". He isn't exactly the desired prototype for a key rebounder in an offense that had rebounding issues.

 

[kcc1442]

We play 175 pound guys at the 4 and dont even make the NIT. Nova played a 250 pound guy at the 4 and just won their second NCAA championship in 3 seasons. Having some strength, toughness and rebounding down low is certainly an asset.

Nova won a championship mainly because of what I am stating. That every player on that team could shoot the 3. They spaced the floor better than any team that I can remember in the last decade. 1-5. Not because they had a guy or two that could rebound. Yes rebounding is important. More fundamentals and want and will though. We won a championship with DD as a pick and pop specialist as our 4. Nova when Paschall and Spellman weren't in the game at the same time played with Bridges at 6'7 205 as their 4 man. Length, will, and fundamentals on rebounding is more important than brute strength.

My biggest point of this whole matter is that their are NO more 4's in basketball on successful team that can't shoot it from outside. Go look at ANY NBA team stat page. If they don't shoot the three they are a 5 (and there are less and less of those anymore) or a PG ala Rose, Kyle Anderson (their are very few of these) that are main facilitators and distributors to the 3point guys.

Hence, we need a guy like Polley for our 4 spot. Yes he needs to get better at rebounding but we do not want a guy in the mold of a Diarra, Yawke, etc. in order to be highly successful in todays game. Now could we win some defensive battles if the aforementioned Diarra et al. could defend on the perimeter well enough, sure maybe but not enough against good competition.

 

[HuskyHawk]

ok. not sure how that is a relevant argument. But ok. You realize we, or at least I, was talking about playing the 6'9 Tyler Polley at the 4. Not Sure why 6'4 became the mark???

The 6'4" came because somebody said Hurley played a 6'4" guy at the 4.

Polley was listed by Rivals as 6'7 or 8" 190 pounds. Same size, roughly, as Rip Hamilton. Maybe a bit skinnier even than Hamilton, and with less hops. Maybe he can gain enough weight and strength to play that spot. I don't know. But we have 4 guys at PF and one other guy at SF, Wilson. So he's needed at wing. Whaley is about the same size, a little stronger it seems, and is a much, much, better interior defender. Polley is a better perimeter defender than Whaley from what I've seen.

 

[kcc1442]

Polley is listed at 6'8" 190 lbs. which means he is probably closer to 6'7". He isn't exactly the desired prototype for a key rebounder in an offense that had rebounding issues.

Polley is 6'8 and has a very great wingspan. He is not some guard body style as you are apparently alluding to.

 

[kcc1442]

The 6'4" came because somebody said Hurley played a 6'4" guy at the 4.

Polley was listed by Rivals as 6'7 or 8" 190 pounds. Same size, roughly, as Rip Hamilton. Maybe a bit skinnier even than Hamilton, and with less hops. Maybe he can gain enough weight and strength to play that spot. I don't know. But we have 4 guys at PF and one other guy at SF, Wilson. So he's needed at wing. Whaley is about the same size, a little stronger it seems, and is a much, much, better interior defender. Polley is a better perimeter defender than Whaley from what I've seen.

What it comes down to is the guys on our roster at the moment are WAY to one dimensional. I have the most faith in Polley to improve his game. I usually have way more faith in a guy with his skill set to learn how to board and defend inside (especially because teams so rarely post up unless there is a mismatch anymore) than I would guys like Whaley, Diarra, Yawke to expand their game outside of the paint to draw their opponents out and unclog the paint for everyone else.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Nova won a championship mainly because of what I am stating. That every player on that team could shoot the 3. They spaced the floor better than any team that I can remember in the last decade. 1-5. Not because they had a guy or two that could rebound. Yes rebounding is important. More fundamentals and want and will though. We won a championship with DD as a pick and pop specialist as our 4. Nova when Paschall and Spellman weren't in the game at the same time played with Bridges at 6'7 205 as their 4 man. Length, will, and fundamentals on rebounding is more important than brute strength.

My biggest point of this whole matter is that their are NO more 4's in basketball on successful team that can't shoot it from outside. Go look at ANY NBA team stat page. If they don't shoot the three they are a 5 (and there are less and less of those anymore) or a PG ala Rose, Kyle Anderson (their are very few of these) that are main facilitators and distributors to the 3point guys.

Hence, we need a guy like Polley for our 4 spot. Yes he needs to get better at rebounding but we do not want a guy in the mold of a Diarra, Yawke, etc. in order to be highly successful in todays game. Now could we win some defensive battles if the aforementioned Diarra et al. could defend on the perimeter well enough, sure maybe but not enough against good competition.

Yeah, nobody could win a NC with a 6'10" 230 pound PF like Brice Johnson. Except the team that did in 2016-17. Or Nova in 2016-17 playing Reynolds and Ochefu side by side.

 

[rip7774]

Competent bench player at the wing, but the kind of guy you have to be recruiting over if we're going to return to national prominence.

This.

 

[Ricker]

Yes. But note that those guys are merely very large PFs and Centers, who happen to be able to shoot. Polley is a straight up wing. He isn't equipped to play as a PF in any respect. So he's not a stretch 4 because he has no inside game or ability to defend the post at all.

Completely disagree. UConn won a national championship with Giffey and Daniels playing the 4 and 5 on the court together in primary stretches. Which one do you see as the muscle guy? They handled a muscle bound Florida team and a stronger Kentucky front line by playing with IQ and playing to their own strengths. Polley's body type is similar to those guys and his strength isn't to where Giffey and Daniels were as a Jr and Sr, but that doesn't mean he can't develop to the same style player. Although he can play some 3 and have success in certain matchups and schemes, he certainly isn't a 'straight up wing' because he is not agile enough to play athletic 6'6 players who are natural 3's. Defending the post can be improved. Giffey and Daniels were not low post defensive stoppers as freshmen, and, I didn't see much of it last year, but, when I saw Polley play before college he could score down low. I think that is more of an issue with regard to his current relative strength than his lack of skills. More strength will lead to more post scoring for him. As a Jr & Sr his time will be at the 4.

 

[Stainmaster]

We play 175 pound guys at the 4 and dont even make the NIT. Nova played a 250 pound guy at the 4 and just won their second NCAA championship in 3 seasons. Having some strength, toughness and rebounding down low is certainly an asset.

Something something correlation versus causation...

 

[donyell34]

So we still don't know Tyler's heigth somewhere between 6'6"~6'9"". Split the difference 6'7 1/2"" seems about right. I see him playing a bigger role this year wherever he plays probably both the 3 or the 4.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Completely disagree. UConn won a national championship with Giffey and Daniels playing the 4 and 5 on the court together in primary stretches. Which one do you see as the muscle guy? They handled a muscle bound Florida team and a stronger Kentucky front line by playing with IQ and playing to their own strengths. Polley's body type is similar to those guys and his strength isn't to where Giffey and Daniels were as a Jr and Sr, but that doesn't mean he can't develop to the same style player. Although he can play some 3 and have success in certain matchups and schemes, he certainly isn't a 'straight up wing' because he is not agile enough to play athletic 6'6 players who are natural 3's. Defending the post can be improved. Giffey and Daniels were not low post defensive stoppers as freshmen, and, I didn't see much of it last year, but, when I saw Polley play before college he could score down low. I think that is more of an issue with regard to his current relative strength than his lack of skills. More strength will lead to more post scoring for him. As a Jr & Sr his time will be at the 4.

I think a good coach plays the guys he has and adapts to them. Calhoun did playing Giffey at the 4. Daniels was taller, stronger and a much better shot blocker than Polley. Whaley is closer to being like Daniels. Giffey was also much stronger than Polley is, and was a very, very good rebounder, even when playing the SF position (which is what he mostly did).

I'm not saying you can't make it work, if that's what you have. I'm saying you don't shoe-horn guys into a role they are ill-suited for. Polley's length creates matchup problems for other teams 3's outside and inside. Against most 4's, he doesn't. He's creates a huge match-up problem for UConn at the 4 because he's an bad interior defender and rebounder. Maybe he will improve. But right now this is the list of guys on the current roster who are better PFs: Yawke, Diarra, Whaley, Cobb, Williams. Five freaking guys. Meanwhile, at the 3 we have Wilson and that's it.

So to maximize this roster, you go the other way, and force a small guy to guard the bigger Polley.

 

[Burnsbros23]

Yeah, nobody could win a NC with a 6'10" 230 pound PF like Brice Johnson. Except the team that did in 2016-17. Or Nova in 2016-17 playing Reynolds and Ochefu side by side.

One Brice Johnson could shoot. If we had at 6’9 or 6’10 guy who could move and shoot obviously everyone would want him at the four.

Ochefu and Reynolds never played together. Those Villanova teams started Kris Jenkins at the four. Further making the posters point of how the game has changed.

Especially with our guards not being knock down shooters. We need a four who’s skilled. Maybe one of the bigs improves their shooting? Otherwise Polley and Wilson will see lots of time at the 4.

 

[Kenny11]

I'm expecting and hoping that Polley plays basketball with confidence. Far too often last season he played unsure of himself, scared to get yelled at by coach and seemed too much like the kid at the end of the bench in middle school that wants to be on the team but secretly hopes coach doesn't put him in the game.

He's long as hell, seems to be able to shoot, and has some other basketball skills. Man up, be confident, and compete! Try to destroy Wilson in practice during preseason.

 

[gtcam]

I think a good coach plays the guys he has and adapts to them. Calhoun did playing Giffey at the 4. Daniels was taller, stronger and a much better shot blocker than Polley. Whaley is closer to being like Daniels. Giffey was also much stronger than Polley is, and was a very, very good rebounder, even when playing the SF position (which is what he mostly did).

I'm not saying you can't make it work, if that's what you have. I'm saying you don't shoe-horn guys into a role they are ill-suited for. Polley's length creates matchup problems for other teams 3's outside and inside. Against most 4's, he doesn't. He's creates a huge match-up problem for UConn at the 4 because he's an bad interior defender and rebounder. Maybe he will improve. But right now this is the list of guys on the current roster who are better PFs: Yawke, Diarra, Whaley, Cobb, Williams. Five freaking guys. Meanwhile, at the 3 we have Wilson and that's it.

So to maximize this roster, you go the other way, and force a small guy to guard the bigger Polley.

KO also played NG at the 3, 4 and 5 at times
Remember he barely averaged 10 minutes a game 1st 2 years and as I recall he didn't start much over his UConn career - but always came in at about the 3 minute mark the last two years - weird set-up but it worked!!!
I agree with the shoe-horn - many coaches still do that today - in the postionless stuff that seems to be the sexy thing but you better have the right horses for that race - something KO failed to achieve

 

[intlzncster]

KO also played NG at the 3, 4 and 5 at times
Remember he barely averaged 10 minutes a game 1st 2 years and as I recall he didn't start much over his UConn career - but always came in at about the 3 minute mark the last two years - weird set-up but it worked!!!
I agree with the shoe-horn - many coaches still do that today - in the postionless stuff that seems to be the sexy thing but you better have the right horses for that race - something KO failed to achieve

Really, you gotta have guys who can shoot at at least 4 positions if you are going with the 'positionless' thing. I mean, that's kinda the whole point. This was probably UCONN's greatest failing over the last few years. Very few shooters.