Whalers 2.0? | The Boneyard

Whalers 2.0?

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It would be a Godsend for Hartford (with ancillary benefits to UConn) if this could happen but as the NHL blocked a sale when the Coyotes were in bankruptcy to prevent a move to Hamilton Ontario (four times the size of Hartford). While that would have put a team in the general proximity of Toronto, Hartford has four teams surrounding it.

If the NHL does allow that drastic of a move (they really don't want a western team moving east) Hartford will likely be behind Quebec City (the largest in Canada without an NHL franchise). It seems the NHL wants to put this team in Salt Lake City.
 
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Even if Hartford and the State is readyto do what it would take to build an arena and support a NHL club — maybe yes, maybe no — it’s not in the interests of the NHL to move a team there. Hartford and CT already follow NHL hockey and can easily catch a NHL game in Boston or New York. The NHL’s goal is to bring the product to populated areas where hockey isn’t really followed yet.
 
businesslawyer said:
Even if Hartford and the State is readyto do what it would take to build an arena and support a NHL club — maybe yes, maybe no — it’s not in the interests of the NHL to move a team there. Hartford and CT already follow NHL hockey and can easily catch a NHL game in Boston or New York. The NHL’s goal is to bring the product to populated areas where hockey isn’t really followed yet.
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If an ower or new owner wants to bring a team to Hartford, it would be hard for the NHL to stop them. The NHL would never put an expansion team here. But if the Coyotes owner thinks this is the best place for the team, the other owners are unlikely to stop him/her.

That said they would likely not want to go to a place being deserted by Fortune 500 companies.
 
Total (crack) pipe dream. But It would be good for UConn.
 
Palatine said:
If an ower or new owner wants to bring a team to Hartford, it would be hard for the NHL to stop them. The NHL would never put an expansion team here. But if the Coyotes owner thinks this is the best place for the team, the other owners are unlikely to stop him/her.

That said they would likely not want to go to a place being deserted by Fortune 500 companies.
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The NHL stopped a sale of the Coyotes when the proposed buyer wanted to move the team to Hamilton Ontario.
 
Hartford doesn't even make the stalking horse list for franchise moves these days. So many other options. But if you want to know what it would take it's a new arena/entertainment district built at public expense with all profits handed over to the franchise ownership. Even with that you'd need to show a huge local media deal is possible.

The Whalers left because ponytail thought he could never get the building/media revenue in CT that he could get elsewhere and he wasn't wrong on that front.
 
Palatine said:
Nobody is moving a sports franchise into a state that is losing population and going backward economically.
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I believe you are wrong. Connecticut is gaining population, not losing and while Connecticut will never be mistaken as a business friendly state, businesses are coming into the state.

I think Connecticut is coming back. Just as long as the Dems and Republicans stay moderate it will be great. Now, it isn't a political comment, just something I'm seeing from afar.
 
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FfldCntyFan said:
It would be a Godsend for Hartford (with ancillary benefits to UConn) if this could happen but as the NHL blocked a sale when the Coyotes were in bankruptcy to prevent a move to Hamilton Ontario (four times the size of Hartford). While that would have put a team in the general proximity of Toronto, Hartford has four teams surrounding it.

If the NHL does allow that drastic of a move (they really don't want a western team moving east) Hartford will likely be behind Quebec City (the largest in Canada without an NHL franchise). It seems the NHL wants to put this team in Salt Lake City.
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Population wise Greater Hamilton is smaller than Greater Hartford, even without including New Haven and Western MA / Pioneer valley.

The issue is that major leagues are old boyz clubs who are allowed to control a monopoly with their franchises due to no prospect of promotion or relegation channels. They really don’t care if a region can support a team at the gate as much as strategically positioning teams that expand the TV market. Hartford, Quebec and Hamilton have many hockey fans already, and are close to existing NHL cities - especially Hartford. Many of those fans even follow the NHL, and the League’s view is that such a move would be a lost opportunity to expand influence as we’d we’d merely be slicing up parts of the same pie. The irony here is that a hockey friendly place is a negative within a certain geographical context.

The NHL and all of these major sports leagues are trying to grow revenue even (and especially) if it bypasses markets that at are already hockey.

For now live Cawlidge Hawkey is the most interesting source for the game in CT (Sorry AHL) Would love it if CT Ice or whatever it will be called one day rivals the Beanpot.
 
SubbaBub said:
The Whalers left because ponytail thought he could never get the building/media revenue in CT that he could get elsewhere and he wasn't wrong on that front.
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That’s not actually true. The franchise has lost gobs of money for most of its existence in NC. Dundon is a much savvier and better owner than “karma is no’s“ and has invested in the team and improved the game experience. He has enabled them to make a profit for the first time in a long time, but we’ll see if that’s sustainable when the team sucks again in a few years. Another difference is that the NHL has a salary cap and revenue sharing, both of which didn’t exist when then Whalers were in the league. The operating dynamics are totally different now.

For those who say it was lack of interest that doomed the Whalers, I always say that the club was over supported for their pathetic on ice performance (3 winning seasons of 18, two of which barely above .500, one one exactly one best of five playoff series). If the Whaler’s had the on ice success NC has enjoyed the HCC and subsequent successor would be constantly sold ou.
 
What is interesting about the deal in Arizona is that the Coyotes were going to pay for the total cost of the arena. Don't really understand the vote by the people in Tempe. A lot of the people who voted no said they wanted a say in what was going to be built.
 
AzHusky said:
What is interesting about the deal in Arizona is that the Coyotes were going to pay for the total cost of the arena. Don't really understand the vote by the people in Tempe. A lot of the people who voted no said they wanted a say in what was going to be built.
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About $500 million in tax breaks were included in the proposal. There was also opposition from the operators of the airport nearby and mistrust of Meruelo as he stiffed Glendale on rent and got kicked out which began the whole Tempe and shacking up with ASU in a new 5k seat arena fiasco.
 
Christopher Price with some interesting suggestions- namely see if the casinos want to get involved with arena building in exchange for revenues.
More interesting idea is getting Steve Cohen involved as primary owner. He has residence in CT to boot and if he could hire a hockey man like Dineen to be the president and or GM
 
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DblCrossbar said:
That’s not actually true. The franchise has lost gobs of money for most of its existence in NC. Dundon is a much savvier and better owner than “karma is no’s“ and has invested in the team and improved the game experience. He has enabled them to make a profit for the first time in a long time, but we’ll see if that’s sustainable when the team sucks again in a few years. Another difference is that the NHL has a salary cap and revenue sharing, both of which didn’t exist when then Whalers were in the league. The operating dynamics are totally different now.

For those who say it was lack of interest that doomed the Whalers, I always say that the club was over supported for their pathetic on ice performance (3 winning seasons of 18, two of which barely above .500, one one exactly one best of five playoff series). If the Whaler’s had the on ice success NC has enjoyed the HCC and subsequent successor would be constantly sold ou.
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Isn't the Whalers Booster Club still around? I know it was still around 5 years ago. I think it would be great for Hartford. One major league team, two minor league teams (Yard Goats and Hartford AC <Soccer>) and who knows about football (usfl/Xfl).
 
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Sorry, but since our state is aligned between Bruins and Rangers fans, with a sprinkling for the Islanders and Devils, NHL hockey is not coming here. A franchise in Hartford will not increase the NHL fanbase footprint. It would not be a “hockey” decision, but a “business” decision.

A smart one.

We (Connecticut) are a college sports state, not a pro state. Just the opposite of Boston, which doesn’t give a rat’s ass about college sports. Just ask BC (exception hockey).
 
Viet Vet said:
We (Connecticut) are a college sports state, not a pro state. Just the opposite of Boston, which doesn’t give a rat’s ass about college sports. Just ask BC (exception hockey).
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College sports do rule here, but with the addirion of the Yard Goats (ok stolen from New Britain) and the Athletic along with a bit of a resurgence of the WolfPack, Hartford has positioned itself as a viable and affordable sports town itself even without the jewels of UConn playing downtown as a continuation of Dave Gavitt’s arena vision for college sports.

I’m inclined to think that part of the increased attendance at WolfPack games this past season is due to UConn playing all of its games at Tuscano after Jan 1st, shutting out many fans from seeing them live. UConn Hockey at the XL certainly has done them no favors since they jumped to HE in 2014, but they seemed to have generated more overall interest in hockey within the area since the Whalers departed.
 
While I continue to believe NHL made strategic mistake trying to send hockey to places that look good on a map, but aren’t interested (see Miami, Phoenix, Atlanta- twice) rather than where passionate fanbases exist, UConn has a better chance of getting into the BIG than this. Then again, appreciate the guv for trying to get us back in the ring.
 
Connecticut's population has been basically flat since 2010 and it's growth rate is 44th in the country. Even the year over year growth rate from last year, while positive, was 29th in the country.

worldpopulationreview.com

US States - Ranking by Population 2026

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.
worldpopulationreview.com worldpopulationreview.com

Per capita GDP is still near the top in the country; overal GDP is in the middle.
 
I think Houston would be the odds on favorites for the Coyotes. Texas is booming. Very business friendly. No state income tax (which is a help in luring free agents).
 
Palatine said:
I think Houston would be the odds on favorites for the Coyotes. Texas is booming. Very business friendly. No state income tax (which is a help in luring free agents).
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Houston, SLC, Milwaukee and even Atlanta (3rd times the charm) would all be ahead of Hartford for adding a new US team. I don't think the NHL would want to go more into Canada over a US market (just less $) but Quebec City and a second team in Ontario would all be before Hartford.

I do appreciate Lamont kicking the tires, as he should. Never hurts to have a convo.
 
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HuskyDogArt said:
I believe you are wrong. Connecticut is gaining population, not losing and while Connecticut will never be mistaken as a business friendly state, businesses are coming into the state.

I think Connecticut is coming back. Just as long as the Dems and Republicans stay moderate it will be great. Now, it isn't a political comment, just something I'm seeing from afar.
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Hate getting political but the demographics of those leaving are quite different than the influx to Connecticut. I have known many finance people forced to look to Carolina, Nashville and Boston because the jobs are all gone. Also, there is a pending return of deficits to the state budget
 
ThabeetDown said:
Houston, SLC, Milwaukee and even Atlanta (3rd times the charm) would all be ahead of Hartford for adding a new US team. I don't think the NHL would want to go more into Canada over a US market (just less $) but Quebec City and a second team in Ontario would all be before Hartford.

I do appreciate Lamont kicking the tires, as he should. Never hurts to have a convo.
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I have little care how this ends up but if Atlanta is given a franchise, that's just stupid. They don't care about hockey and don't support it.
 
Palatine said:
I think Houston would be the odds on favorites for the Coyotes. Texas is booming. Very business friendly. No state income tax (which is a help in luring free agents).
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We are gonna have to redefine what “business friendly” means.
 
I think UConn has a better chance of getting an all sports invite to the SEC than Hartford has of getting another NHL team. Hartford just doesn’t have enough corporations to buy up all the luxury boxes and club seats required to support an NHL. The days of lower bowl seats being owned by individual season ticket holders are gone. The lower bowl club seats and mid level luxury boxes need to be owned by the corporations. Maybe a team in the Stamford area would work but that area is already Ranger territory, so the NHL Gaines nothing by having a team there.
 
gioff2323 said:
How about a state were businesses. Small and big, as well as people, are moving in droves.
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And when you get there have the government tell your business, and spouses/daughters, what they can say, do, be. Real business friendly.
 
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